gun kata? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

doodah · 12-09-2003, 09:50 PM

anyone seen equalibriuim it had soem sort of karate and its called gun kata i wanted to know if it can be used or if its even real...

Moonduck · 12-10-2003, 05:18 PM

Seen it, enjoyed the movie. The last fight was a great presentation.

I think it is neat, but unrealistic. The final fight was a lot of gun retention techniques combined with the sort of trapping range maneuvers that one would see in Wing Tsun and JKD. Quite a bit of that was based of real MA maneuvers, and would likely work. The difference is that real world maneuvers are taught with only one person being armed. Both people armed complicates things. Not sure how useful such techniques would be.

Still, it's a neat movie.

Fire · 12-10-2003, 09:07 PM

Wasnt much of a fan of the movie- had lots of GREAT ideas, good actors ect, but poor execution- but have to agree w/ the wereduck, its neat, even if its not that well done- personally I tend to see a merging trend between traditional MA and newer CQB and retention techniques- martial arts are after all supposed to be pragmatic, the idea being to survive a dangerous situation, and it is inevitable that new weapons will develope their own styles. I first noticed this while reading a piece in which Gunsites training program was heavily featured, and saw many parralells between that and training with a katana- essentialy there is always going to be a simmilarity of philosophies.

Moonduck · 12-11-2003, 11:23 AM

My JKD instructor was fond of calling KD Human Style Fung Fu. He was, of course, referring to the myriad of animal styles of Chinese MA, and how JKD was simply how a human fights when forced to. The concept was great, and related to your parallel usage reference. There are only so many ways a human body can move, period. Biomechanics tells us that each likmb has a certain range of motion, and will only be properly effective in a certain portion of that range. Given that mankind has worked for thousands of years on various ways in which to defend itself, it follows that those techniques that work wildly successfully with one weapon, may well work with an entirely unrelated weapon if some innovative thought is applied.

In essence, a good move is a good move, no matter where it came. That is the actual cornerstone of JKD, and other multi-disciplinary MA's. I'm very excited at all the solid, practical MA influence that is coming into gun usage.

As an aside, Krav Maga has some really great retention moaneuvers and disarms. Really innovative stuff. Their shotgun disarm was particularly keen.

mtsgsd · 12-12-2003, 08:25 AM

Look at their description of gun kata: (paraphrased)
The cleric learns to analyze the positions of all the other gunmen, and come up with the place to stand that has the lowest statistical chance of having bullets moving through it. In addition, he's also anticipating those shots and the movements of his opponents so he's moving and shooting before they do. Even in the dark.

First of all you'd have to be some kind of freak'n genious to do all those calculations, since the variables are constantly changing. I have a problem with that "lowest statistical chance" bit too. Less chance of getting hit doesn't mean NO chance!

The fight scenes are filled with unecessary gun waving too. Looks good, but there's really no reason to shoot targets on the left with the left gun and targets on the right with the right gun, and then cross the arms and shoot the same targets with the opposite gun. And then switch again? Pretty inefficient isn't it?
Notice how many times he shoots on full-auto with the barrel inches from an ear? The guy's got to be permanently deaf.

Have to admit I like the movie though.

12-09-2003, 09:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
doodah Tilted Location: somewhere over the fucking rainbow	gun kata? anyone seen equalibriuim it had soem sort of karate and its called gun kata i wanted to know if it can be used or if its even real... __________________ sometimes.. we all just gotta rock out with our cock out and hang out with our wang out... its just how it is....

12-10-2003, 09:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	Wasnt much of a fan of the movie- had lots of GREAT ideas, good actors ect, but poor execution- but have to agree w/ the wereduck, its neat, even if its not that well done- personally I tend to see a merging trend between traditional MA and newer CQB and retention techniques- martial arts are after all supposed to be pragmatic, the idea being to survive a dangerous situation, and it is inevitable that new weapons will develope their own styles. I first noticed this while reading a piece in which Gunsites training program was heavily featured, and saw many parralells between that and training with a katana- essentialy there is always going to be a simmilarity of philosophies. __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-10-2003, 05:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Seen it, enjoyed the movie. The last fight was a great presentation. I think it is neat, but unrealistic. The final fight was a lot of gun retention techniques combined with the sort of trapping range maneuvers that one would see in Wing Tsun and JKD. Quite a bit of that was based of real MA maneuvers, and would likely work. The difference is that real world maneuvers are taught with only one person being armed. Both people armed complicates things. Not sure how useful such techniques would be. Still, it's a neat movie.

12-11-2003, 11:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	My JKD instructor was fond of calling KD Human Style Fung Fu. He was, of course, referring to the myriad of animal styles of Chinese MA, and how JKD was simply how a human fights when forced to. The concept was great, and related to your parallel usage reference. There are only so many ways a human body can move, period. Biomechanics tells us that each likmb has a certain range of motion, and will only be properly effective in a certain portion of that range. Given that mankind has worked for thousands of years on various ways in which to defend itself, it follows that those techniques that work wildly successfully with one weapon, may well work with an entirely unrelated weapon if some innovative thought is applied. In essence, a good move is a good move, no matter where it came. That is the actual cornerstone of JKD, and other multi-disciplinary MA's. I'm very excited at all the solid, practical MA influence that is coming into gun usage. As an aside, Krav Maga has some really great retention moaneuvers and disarms. Really innovative stuff. Their shotgun disarm was particularly keen.

12-12-2003, 08:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
mtsgsd Addict Location: Wisconsin, USA	Look at their description of gun kata: (paraphrased) The cleric learns to analyze the positions of all the other gunmen, and come up with the place to stand that has the lowest statistical chance of having bullets moving through it. In addition, he's also anticipating those shots and the movements of his opponents so he's moving and shooting before they do. Even in the dark. First of all you'd have to be some kind of freak'n genious to do all those calculations, since the variables are constantly changing. I have a problem with that "lowest statistical chance" bit too. Less chance of getting hit doesn't mean NO chance! The fight scenes are filled with unecessary gun waving too. Looks good, but there's really no reason to shoot targets on the left with the left gun and targets on the right with the right gun, and then cross the arms and shoot the same targets with the opposite gun. And then switch again? Pretty inefficient isn't it? Notice how many times he shoots on full-auto with the barrel inches from an ear? The guy's got to be permanently deaf. Have to admit I like the movie though.