Guns: All I know is that I don't know nothin'... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Plan9 · 08-19-2010, 07:24 PM

In an effort to make myself a better person through the blunt force application of humility, I occasionally log onto the various gun forums I frequent and read my ancient posts. Some of the shit that I used to say, do and believe was incredibly stupid. It came from my limited knowledge base at the time, the handful of experiences with the small set of tools I had on hand, the few people I associated with and the level of education provided by the the military (*gag*) and my own screwin'-round. Every year that goes by I immerse myself in more and more in the general education, specialty-area electives and philosophy of those who know what they're doing. Sure, it's expensive (like golf) and tedious (like golf and masturbating) but I love it. It's my sport. Each year represents a huge step of growth. I think the most rewarding part of the process is looking back to see where I came from in comparison to where I'm at now. I have to be able to laugh at myself, right? After looking at That Certain Site, I'm cackling so hard I can't friggin' breathe. What a dummy.

And when I say that "I'm not a genius" (an asinine tagline, yes) I'm actually being quite sincere. An example of my dumbassery, including that which pertains to arena of carrying and using firearms, surfaces every single day. I'm trying to drink from the fire hose of knowledge with a curly straw. I figure by the time I'm 65 I'll have this gun stuff down. Sadly, my knees will likely have given out at that point.

Anybody else have an epiphany like this on a yearly basis? What have you learned?

I realize this is kind of broad but I figure specific instances will surface. I've got far too many in front of me to even single out one at this moment.

Daniel_ · 08-19-2010, 10:34 PM

Life has taught me that the more I know, the more I realise I don't know.

I recently read a research paper that showed (I summarise wildly because I can't find the original paper) that stupid people self report that they know (for example) 3/4 of everything that there is to know, but that educated people report that they know (for example) 1/10 of everything.

This leads to clever folks thinking they're dumb and dumb folks thinking they're clever.

Essentially, some people are too dumb to realise that they're dumb.

Jetée · 08-19-2010, 10:46 PM

I realize that you are far more adept than me (well, anyone is) at creating a first impression in a new thread's discussion, and while I have had no epiphanies lately, (that I care to remember, or spend the next off-two hours trying to remember them, then crying about it) I'll just say I do, indeed, try to learn something new everyday. I also am endeavoring to create something new everyday, but the definition and aim of this is very fluid.

Like everything in life, if it serves you well to know it, all you need to do is practice and "bone up" on the matter to achieve and realize more in the passing days than you did however long ago you had begun. Also, it plays into that saying that anything worth having involves a struggle and tedium of working hard to accomplish that said something (which in the basis of leaving this exemplification open-ended and applicable to anything, the "something" to which reference holds is left unsaid).

I'm not sure if you care enough to right it, but I think this topic's opening exposition is more on the nature of life, and your own personal anecdote of how this "living and learning" applies to it; meaning: I think your thread serves more purpose as a general discussion sort of matter than weaponry, really, seeing as it involves an admittedly broad closing audience query regarding "what we have learned".

Each day, I learn life is not easy, over and over again. (neither is telepathic, wholly understood communications, but I'm working on this.)

Plan9 · 08-19-2010, 11:36 PM

My original intent was to deal with the learning curve related to the use of guns (and related topics) in those occupations that necessitate them. These are unforgiving occupations. Other jobs? Less so. I mean, you can fuck up a spread sheet and nobody is gonna get killed.

But yes, I see now that a lot could be learned by opening this thread up. I just worry that it'd be super vague and turn out like most of my threads: 3 post wonders. Granted, it'll probably do the same in this particular niche. Hmm. Wow. Well, so much for catharsis.

Jetée · 08-20-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

I just worry that it'd be super vague and turn out like most of my threads: 3 post wonders.

You meant to say most of my threads (the only reason they soar into the hundreds of posts is because I'm the only one who cares enough to update them, and reply to them, sometimes turning off one side of my brain to converse with the other - crazy, I try so hard). Also, barely any of my topics are vague; I'm just unpopular.

Catharsis? I'm not sure in what relevant sense and definition you took from the word in order to seemingly apply a downtrodden term of intention to it, but I'll add:

Just the other day, when either the BET, HBO, AMC, FX, or et. al. was(/were, simulatenously?) running a re-edited re-showing of the still very-good-to-watch-when-needing-that-weekly-Denzel-fix-of-mine Inside Man (Spike Lee ; 2006) I caught that scene of dialogue whee that one guy being interviewed (read as: grilled) stated "everyone knows what an AK-47 looks like"; yeah, that's the part of the film where my brain switched on and happened to casually register with me, then tell me, that I have little idea of what an AK-47 looks like, other than maybe the front-side handle of the weapon may be curved (due to the magazine clip, or not).

Walt · 08-20-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Anybody else have an epiphany like this on a yearly basis? What have you learned?

My most recent epiphany was the realization that EVERYTHING comes back to body position, sight picture, breathing and trigger squeeze. By focusing on those fundamentals, everything is simplified. I just shoot.

It's kinda like the famous Bruce Lee quote; "Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just a punch, a kick just a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've mastered the art, a punch is just a punch, a kick just a kick. The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum."

FelixP · 08-20-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

My most recent epiphany was the realization that EVERYTHING comes back to body position, sight picture, breathing and trigger squeeze. By focusing on those fundamentals, everything is simplified. I just shoot.

It all comes down to the fundamentals: Proper sight alignment, sight picture, natural resparitory pause, natural point of aim, etc. The fundamentals are key. Nowadays people get too caught up in the "high-speed low-drag bullshit"; slow is smooth and smooth is fast, so slow is fast.

The_Dunedan · 08-20-2010, 08:33 PM

Bingo. Learning to -properly- shoot my SPS Tactical has brought that into -very- sharp focus. I hate how out of practice I've gotten, and how far my fundamental shooting skills have degraded, over the past two immensely busy years. I work in a gunshop, of all things, and I -just- finished breaking in the barrel on a rifle I got for a present last Christmas! So it's back to basics.

OTOH, it makes getting minute-of-bad-guy hits with the FAL a -lot- simpler!

Plan9 · 08-20-2010, 09:54 PM

Wow, now I know how Jetee feels.

Talk of fundamentals is appropriate I suppose, but not what I was attempting to dig for in this thread. Using fundamentals as an example of what I'm after, let's talk about steady body position. How you hold, manipulate and shoot a carbine has changed dramatically several times in the last ten years for me. I learned how to shoot as a kid and held a rifle like John Wayne. Then I went into the big bad military and learned to hold it another way. Then I left the military and learned how to shoot a rifle a way that would have been really useful to know when I was in the military because it was faster, more accurate and more natural. Was there anything inherently wrong with what I was trained on as a child doing the boyscout / NRA thing? Was there anything inherently wrong with the training the military gave me before it sent me off to police call the endless beaches of southwest Asia?

I don't think so but it does make me wonder.

Part of my point is that the "high speed low drag stuff," as mosquito-wings puts it, always changes. It gets pushed down the continuum just like combat philosophy and weapon technology. It's like a giant wave of information that we all try to surf on. Some are better than others. Some have more board time and some have better instructors. Some are just good at it. Some work hard for years to become good. Blah, blah... cliche but it works.

Another example would be how combat casualty care has changed immensely in the last ten years. When I was first introduced to it... the preferred method of keeping myself from bleeding out involved a pair of field bandages the size of a pack of cigarettes and a cravat. Don't use a tourniquet (what's a tourniquet?) because it's dangerous (but if you need to, you can use your belt). Then came the E-bandage and CAT tourniquets and IVs. Then came Quikclot / Hemcon. Then they took away Quikclot / Hemcon. Then they said no more IVs. Now it's down to just slap a tourniquet on it (just in case) and wrap it tight with bandages and GTFO. Every CCC class I go to is more than a little different and makes me wonder which method is better.

And while the learning process never ends, how is one to know they're "good to go" in a training sense? If they make it home every day? How do you measure superiority in any sense (of a technique or user)? The "better" and "proven" technique that just came out? So many fads and yet so much useful growth underneath it (and occasionally from it). It's all very daunting at times. My shoot class notes look like they belong to a schizophrenic.

...

Another facet of this thread would be overcoming "logic" and "common sense"-based stupidity (I'm full of it) through first hand no shit training:

Weapon handling becomes a form of martial arts. Endless repetition (practice at home) and blunt force trauma (stress drills at classes) show you what really works. The simple act of changing a magazine becomes an intricate but instant fluid motion.
The AR vs. AK reliability debate is made clear after thousands and thousands of rounds. You learn more about each system and dispel the myths associated with each. Truly understanding the inner workings of the machines you use is absolutely crucial to their application.
The shotgun vs. handgun vs. rifle for home defense debate is further developed. Test the theory for yourself. You shoot at sheet rock and bricks (and Suburbans) and are perplexed, get mixed results, and eventually see something you didn't expect.

FelixP · 08-22-2010, 09:36 AM

We were taught tourniquet ASAP, along with the H-pressure bandage; now they have QuikClot bandages instead of the crystals that burned like hell and were damn near impossible to get out.

I digress. I see your point. Techniques change as people learn more. I think the problem is that alot of people still belong to the whole "Having a gun makes me cool. Having Neo's gun(s) from The Matrix makes me cooler, and using them like him makes me a super-duper certified grade-A badass." As a result, people try moving to the advanced stuff before they get the basics down, and after that all their advanced stuff looks like shit, and doesn't work. I keep thinking of the videos your linked to a few weeks ago with the fat guy and his scrawny-ass partner.

SSJTWIZTA · 09-06-2010, 04:08 PM

was that an op ivy reference?

oh, ditto by the way. i still say stupid shit to this day. look, heres some gibberish now.

Cimarron29414 · 09-09-2010, 06:53 AM

I think the largest change regarding firearms is my view on CC. 10 years ago, I didn't want to carry. My rationale was, "If I carry a firearm, then every interaction I have with every human will involve at least one gun. How will that alter the interaction?" I didn't begrudge people who did, I just didn't want to do it. Because I felt that way, I knew I wasn't ready...emotionally?...to CC. As I got a bit older, I started to believe that it didn't have to change the way I interacted and I started training for and ultimately acquired a CWP.

Funny thing is that carrying has definitely changed the way I interact with people, but I don't believe it's obvious or negative. I'm far more aware of my environment when I carry. The little things like where and how to sit, body position, etc. has changed a lot.

My world view has changed a lot in the past 10 years as well, or perhaps I believe the world has changed? Certainly, with a wife and child, your values change and you think have more to lose so you want to protect it.

So, that's the first major firearms thing I can think of. It's rather abstract. It doesn't really follow a pattern of ignorance to education, but perhaps a pattern of naivity to awareness.

omega48038 · 11-22-2010, 01:30 PM

The longer someone is into just about anything, the more their tendency to think they know a lot diminishes.

KirStang · 03-27-2011, 02:47 PM

So you go to the range. You shoot some wild shots. Then you shoot some more. Then one day you realize the trick to make very small 1" holes at 21 feet. And you're feeling pretty good about it. Then you pick up another gun and learn it. Then you join the army, and take some classes, and you think you're pretty badass...

Then you go shooting with a friend named 'Jean-Claude' and he's zinging 5" poppers at 25 yards like a machine gun....with a pistol. All the while I'm throwing shots left and right.

And doing shotgun runs in 81 seconds while he takes 41 seconds to clear the same stage (shooting swingers and clay pigeons). God damn.

I DONT KNOW NOTHIN'!

Zeraph · 03-27-2011, 04:07 PM

put bullet in gun
aim gun
gun go bang
gun make hole

that all me know

Jinn · 03-27-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_

Life has taught me that the more I know, the more I realise I don't know.

I recently read a research paper that showed (I summarise wildly because I can't find the original paper) that stupid people self report that they know (for example) 3/4 of everything that there is to know, but that educated people report that they know (for example) 1/10 of everything.

This leads to clever folks thinking they're dumb and dumb folks thinking they're clever.

Essentially, some people are too dumb to realise that they're dumb.

I think what Daniel was talking about here, and what many in this thread are describing:

Dunning?Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence."

I think everyone who has begun to master a skill recognizes this in others practicing the skill, and (hopefully) in themselves, prior to their mastery. There have been so many times where I've reached a certain level of ability that I realized just how poorly I was rating my abilities prior to that point and just how much more I had to learn. Unfortunately, many people never escape this, and consistently are, colloquially, so stupid that they don't even know how stupid they are, yet rate themselves as amazing as a result of their stupidity.

KirStang · 03-27-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinn

. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence."

i.e....Politics?

Oh noes! What hath I wrought!?!?! D=

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

Seriously though: That is interesting. I feel like a lot of ignorant people constantly overrate their understanding of things they are unqualified to comment on...

---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

Okay. God damn. I need to tone down my snark.

In my line of work, with the law, it is easy to jump to conclusions. However, upon closer examination of the facts, things generally turn out differently than expected, especially when you look at both how the law operates and small but critical facts. I find it frustrating that people can pass judgment on things they do not fully understand, and strongly defend those positions.

Jinn · 03-27-2011, 04:48 PM

The positive takeaway from understanding the DK effect for me is that you are capable of recognizing your own incompetence in certain arenas then you are surely less ignorant than many. And on the flipside, if you find yourself unbearably confident, certain that you're an expert in a given field or subject, you're probably suffering from the DK effect and your own ignorance denies you the ability to recognize it; better to step back and find out what you're missing.

Walt · 03-29-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

Seriously though: That is interesting. I feel like a lot of ignorant people constantly overrate their understanding of things they are unqualified to comment on...

Have you been lurking the GlockTalk forums? Everyone is an expert. The best part is that when asked to explain/support their position, most invariably resort to playing the credentials game.

"Dude. I am a lifetime member of the NRA. I've been hunting for 40 years. I am a Glock-certified armorer. I spent 3 years in the Marine Corps reserves and always shot "expert". I own elevendy billion guns....trust me, bro. I know what I'm talking about".

Plan9 · 03-29-2011, 08:55 AM

/I don't know nothing

KirStang · 03-29-2011, 11:21 AM

It's pretty fricken annoying to see know-nothings incant "DD/BCM/KAC/COLT" like some bludgeon without qualifying or backing up those statements.

Or that lower/upper wobble don't "affect anything" (ever heard of consistent cheekweld? and what parallax really means?)

I tend to avoid barfcom. Too much juvenile behavior there. You get some occasionally good posts on M4c. Also, although thefiringline is full of rednecks, you also have some very qualified and very *professional* posters on there. The Moderators there don't tolerate shenanigans as much as other forums, so things stay pretty clean.

And some goofballs at Mdshooters ought to tone down the redneck rhetoric. Sometimes it's borderline racist.

Zeraph · 03-30-2011, 10:04 AM

You guys are startin to speak gunenese and are losing us that truly know nothin.

citadel · 03-30-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt

Have you been lurking the GlockTalk forums? Everyone is an expert. The best part is that when asked to explain/support their position, most invariably resort to playing the credentials game.

"Dude. I am a lifetime member of the NRA. I've been hunting for 40 years. I am a Glock-certified armorer. I spent 3 years in the Marine Corps reserves and always shot "expert". I own elevendy billion guns....trust me, bro. I know what I'm talking about".

Best are the people who's sigline is a list of every gun they own. Having more imparts more knowledge or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

You guys are startin to speak gunenese and are losing us that truly know nothin.

I think you mean a blend of AR-ese and gunforum-ese.

Shauk · 03-31-2011, 01:05 AM

Socrates was a wise motherfucker.

That's all you need to know, to know, you don't know, ya know?

monkeysugar · 04-24-2011, 02:15 AM

I have learned: while I may or may not have a metric ass-ton of firearms, and while I may or may not go and shoot a handful of them on a regular basis, to blow off some steam but still get some practice in. I can shoot somewhat well on my own, despite not knowing shit. When I have an angry little man yelling in my ear to relax and loosen my grip once a year, I shoot like shit. When I am trying to concentrate on sight alignment and trigger control, and the assbag next to me seems to have his or her shots timed to bounce hot brass off of the side of my head and down my shirt as I am at the breaking point of applying steady pressure to the trigger, I shoot like shit. In a nutshell, all things considered, I shoot like shit and should take some real courses, where all of the verbal abuse is fine as long as I get sufficient practice on how to do it properly, under stress. Not once a year's worth of "What the fuck are you doing? You are gripping the fuck out of that pistol! Just relax, loosen up the grip, and pull the trigger! Goddammit, I said relax! Why aren't you relaxing!?!?!" Gotta love it.

08-19-2010, 07:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Guns: All I know is that I don't know nothin'... In an effort to make myself a better person through the blunt force application of humility, I occasionally log onto the various gun forums I frequent and read my ancient posts. Some of the shit that I used to say, do and believe was incredibly stupid. It came from my limited knowledge base at the time, the handful of experiences with the small set of tools I had on hand, the few people I associated with and the level of education provided by the the military (gag) and my own screwin'-round. Every year that goes by I immerse myself in more and more in the general education, specialty-area electives and philosophy of those who know what they're doing. Sure, it's expensive (like golf) and tedious (like golf and masturbating) but I love it. It's my sport. Each year represents a huge step of growth. I think the most rewarding part of the process is looking back to see where I came from in comparison to where I'm at now. I have to be able to laugh at myself, right? After looking at That Certain Site, I'm cackling so hard I can't friggin' breathe. What a dummy. And when I say that "I'm not a genius" (an asinine tagline, yes) I'm actually being quite sincere. An example of my dumbassery, including that which pertains to arena of carrying and using firearms, surfaces every single day. I'm trying to drink from the fire hose of knowledge with a curly straw. I figure by the time I'm 65 I'll have this gun stuff down. Sadly, my knees will likely have given out at that point. Anybody else have an epiphany like this on a yearly basis? What have you learned? I realize this is kind of broad but I figure specific instances will surface. I've got far too many in front of me to even single out one at this moment. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-19-2010 at 07:29 PM..

08-19-2010, 10:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	Life has taught me that the more I know, the more I realise I don't know. I recently read a research paper that showed (I summarise wildly because I can't find the original paper) that stupid people self report that they know (for example) 3/4 of everything that there is to know, but that educated people report that they know (for example) 1/10 of everything. This leads to clever folks thinking they're dumb and dumb folks thinking they're clever. Essentially, some people are too dumb to realise that they're dumb. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

08-19-2010, 10:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	I realize that you are far more adept than me (well, anyone is) at creating a first impression in a new thread's discussion, and while I have had no epiphanies lately, (that I care to remember, or spend the next off-two hours trying to remember them, then crying about it) I'll just say I do, indeed, try to learn something new everyday. I also am endeavoring to create something new everyday, but the definition and aim of this is very fluid. Like everything in life, if it serves you well to know it, all you need to do is practice and "bone up" on the matter to achieve and realize more in the passing days than you did however long ago you had begun. Also, it plays into that saying that anything worth having involves a struggle and tedium of working hard to accomplish that said something (which in the basis of leaving this exemplification open-ended and applicable to anything, the "something" to which reference holds is left unsaid). I'm not sure if you care enough to right it, but I think this topic's opening exposition is more on the nature of life, and your own personal anecdote of how this "living and learning" applies to it; meaning: I think your thread serves more purpose as a general discussion sort of matter than weaponry, really, seeing as it involves an admittedly broad closing audience query regarding "what we have learned". Each day, I learn life is not easy, over and over again. (neither is telepathic, wholly understood communications, but I'm working on this.) __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

08-19-2010, 11:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	My original intent was to deal with the learning curve related to the use of guns (and related topics) in those occupations that necessitate them. These are unforgiving occupations. Other jobs? Less so. I mean, you can fuck up a spread sheet and nobody is gonna get killed. But yes, I see now that a lot could be learned by opening this thread up. I just worry that it'd be super vague and turn out like most of my threads: 3 post wonders. Granted, it'll probably do the same in this particular niche. Hmm. Wow. Well, so much for catharsis. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-19-2010 at 11:42 PM..

08-20-2010, 09:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Wow, now I know how Jetee feels. Talk of fundamentals is appropriate I suppose, but not what I was attempting to dig for in this thread. Using fundamentals as an example of what I'm after, let's talk about steady body position. How you hold, manipulate and shoot a carbine has changed dramatically several times in the last ten years for me. I learned how to shoot as a kid and held a rifle like John Wayne. Then I went into the big bad military and learned to hold it another way. Then I left the military and learned how to shoot a rifle a way that would have been really useful to know when I was in the military because it was faster, more accurate and more natural. Was there anything inherently wrong with what I was trained on as a child doing the boyscout / NRA thing? Was there anything inherently wrong with the training the military gave me before it sent me off to police call the endless beaches of southwest Asia? I don't think so but it does make me wonder. Part of my point is that the "high speed low drag stuff," as mosquito-wings puts it, always changes. It gets pushed down the continuum just like combat philosophy and weapon technology. It's like a giant wave of information that we all try to surf on. Some are better than others. Some have more board time and some have better instructors. Some are just good at it. Some work hard for years to become good. Blah, blah... cliche but it works. Another example would be how combat casualty care has changed immensely in the last ten years. When I was first introduced to it... the preferred method of keeping myself from bleeding out involved a pair of field bandages the size of a pack of cigarettes and a cravat. Don't use a tourniquet (what's a tourniquet?) because it's dangerous (but if you need to, you can use your belt). Then came the E-bandage and CAT tourniquets and IVs. Then came Quikclot / Hemcon. Then they took away Quikclot / Hemcon. Then they said no more IVs. Now it's down to just slap a tourniquet on it (just in case) and wrap it tight with bandages and GTFO. Every CCC class I go to is more than a little different and makes me wonder which method is better. And while the learning process never ends, how is one to know they're "good to go" in a training sense? If they make it home every day? How do you measure superiority in any sense (of a technique or user)? The "better" and "proven" technique that just came out? So many fads and yet so much useful growth underneath it (and occasionally from it). It's all very daunting at times. My shoot class notes look like they belong to a schizophrenic. ... Another facet of this thread would be overcoming "logic" and "common sense"-based stupidity (I'm full of it) through first hand no shit training: Weapon handling becomes a form of martial arts. Endless repetition (practice at home) and blunt force trauma (stress drills at classes) show you what really works. The simple act of changing a magazine becomes an intricate but instant fluid motion. The AR vs. AK reliability debate is made clear after thousands and thousands of rounds. You learn more about each system and dispel the myths associated with each. Truly understanding the inner workings of the machines you use is absolutely crucial to their application. The shotgun vs. handgun vs. rifle for home defense debate is further developed. Test the theory for yourself. You shoot at sheet rock and bricks (and Suburbans) and are perplexed, get mixed results, and eventually see something you didn't expect. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-20-2010 at 10:07 PM..

08-20-2010, 08:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Bingo. Learning to -properly- shoot my SPS Tactical has brought that into -very- sharp focus. I hate how out of practice I've gotten, and how far my fundamental shooting skills have degraded, over the past two immensely busy years. I work in a gunshop, of all things, and I -just- finished breaking in the barrel on a rifle I got for a present last Christmas! So it's back to basics. OTOH, it makes getting minute-of-bad-guy hits with the FAL a -lot- simpler!

08-22-2010, 09:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	We were taught tourniquet ASAP, along with the H-pressure bandage; now they have QuikClot bandages instead of the crystals that burned like hell and were damn near impossible to get out. I digress. I see your point. Techniques change as people learn more. I think the problem is that alot of people still belong to the whole "Having a gun makes me cool. Having Neo's gun(s) from The Matrix makes me cooler, and using them like him makes me a super-duper certified grade-A badass." As a result, people try moving to the advanced stuff before they get the basics down, and after that all their advanced stuff looks like shit, and doesn't work. I keep thinking of the videos your linked to a few weeks ago with the fat guy and his scrawny-ass partner. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

09-06-2010, 04:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	was that an op ivy reference? oh, ditto by the way. i still say stupid shit to this day. look, heres some gibberish now. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

09-09-2010, 06:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	I think the largest change regarding firearms is my view on CC. 10 years ago, I didn't want to carry. My rationale was, "If I carry a firearm, then every interaction I have with every human will involve at least one gun. How will that alter the interaction?" I didn't begrudge people who did, I just didn't want to do it. Because I felt that way, I knew I wasn't ready...emotionally?...to CC. As I got a bit older, I started to believe that it didn't have to change the way I interacted and I started training for and ultimately acquired a CWP. Funny thing is that carrying has definitely changed the way I interact with people, but I don't believe it's obvious or negative. I'm far more aware of my environment when I carry. The little things like where and how to sit, body position, etc. has changed a lot. My world view has changed a lot in the past 10 years as well, or perhaps I believe the world has changed? Certainly, with a wife and child, your values change and you think have more to lose so you want to protect it. So, that's the first major firearms thing I can think of. It's rather abstract. It doesn't really follow a pattern of ignorance to education, but perhaps a pattern of naivity to awareness. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

11-22-2010, 01:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
omega48038 Upright	The longer someone is into just about anything, the more their tendency to think they know a lot diminishes.

03-27-2011, 04:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	put bullet in gun aim gun gun go bang gun make hole that all me know

03-27-2011, 04:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	The positive takeaway from understanding the DK effect for me is that you are capable of recognizing your own incompetence in certain arenas then you are surely less ignorant than many. And on the flipside, if you find yourself unbearably confident, certain that you're an expert in a given field or subject, you're probably suffering from the DK effect and your own ignorance denies you the ability to recognize it; better to step back and find out what you're missing. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

03-29-2011, 08:55 AM	#20 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	/I don't know nothing __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 03-29-2011 at 11:51 AM..

03-30-2011, 10:04 AM	#22 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	You guys are startin to speak gunenese and are losing us that truly know nothin.

03-31-2011, 01:05 AM	#24 (permalink)
Shauk Confused Adult Location: Spokane, WA	Socrates was a wise motherfucker. That's all you need to know, to know, you don't know, ya know?

04-24-2011, 02:15 AM	#25 (permalink)
monkeysugar I'll be on the veranda, since you're on the cross. Location: Rand McNally's friendliest small town in America. They must have strayed from the dodgy parts...	I have learned: while I may or may not have a metric ass-ton of firearms, and while I may or may not go and shoot a handful of them on a regular basis, to blow off some steam but still get some practice in. I can shoot somewhat well on my own, despite not knowing shit. When I have an angry little man yelling in my ear to relax and loosen my grip once a year, I shoot like shit. When I am trying to concentrate on sight alignment and trigger control, and the assbag next to me seems to have his or her shots timed to bounce hot brass off of the side of my head and down my shirt as I am at the breaking point of applying steady pressure to the trigger, I shoot like shit. In a nutshell, all things considered, I shoot like shit and should take some real courses, where all of the verbal abuse is fine as long as I get sufficient practice on how to do it properly, under stress. Not once a year's worth of "What the fuck are you doing? You are gripping the fuck out of that pistol! Just relax, loosen up the grip, and pull the trigger! Goddammit, I said relax! Why aren't you relaxing!?!?!" Gotta love it. __________________ I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.