Bolt vs Break Open - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Smackre · 04-20-2010, 06:43 PM

What are the pro's and con's on both.

Was thinking about getting a Ruger model 1 in 300 win mag for long range big game. But can't decide if I can deal with the break open.

I have herd that break open guns have tighter machined chambers so there for would be more accurate.

Smackre,

raptor9k · 04-21-2010, 04:19 PM

deleted

Smackre · 04-21-2010, 04:51 PM

I was looking a ruger m77's and remington 700's.

Also was looking at a Weatherby bolt's.

As far as single shots I was mostly looking at Ruger #1's

The_Dunedan · 04-21-2010, 07:07 PM

Go with the Remington, if you're after a boltgun. Ruger's bolt-action rifles are OK, but only just. The trigger has always been a particular weak point; Ruger pioneered the "Lawyer-proof" 9lb trigger back in the day. The M77 no longer exists (it's the "Hawkeye" now), and it may be that the new generation of post-Ruger-family rifles are abit better. I'd still hold off. Weatherby makes a fine rifle, but ammo is extremely expensive and frequently difficult to locate, plus reloading is a colossal PITA thanks to the Weatherby's rounded case shoulder which requires very expensive Weatherby-specific tools. And that's -before- you get to the recoil, which runs the gamut from the extremely unpleasant to the nigh-on-intolerable.

Ruger does make a very nice single-shot. However, the type of action has nothing to do with the chamber of the bbl per se. What you're looking for here is a tight lockup between bolt, cartridge, and chamber. Especially important is the bolt/chamber interface, where the bolt locks into the rear of the barrel.

Boltguns and falling-block rifles may -start- with similarly tight lockups, but the falling-block weapon will lose that tightness earlier and with greater severity, since it primarily locks into the receiver of the weapon and not the barrel, and will get battered by recoil and chamber pressure spikes. This can be avoided with a dual lockup and proper bolstering, but to get -that- kind of detail you're looking at Dakota Arms or something in that neighborhood: real "arm and a leg" territory.

Consider: if falling-block weapons -were- more accurate than boltguns, 1000yrd+ centerfire match shooters would be using them. They're not. The only long-range competitors who use falling-block guns are the "Creedmore" style blackpowder guys, who (no surprise) love the Sharps and Remington Rolling Block. If those types of actions could outperform boltguns with modern cartridges, they'd be a -lot- more prevalent than they are. Where falling-block guns -do- still have a following is among Dangerous Game hunters, who are sometimes willing to sacrifice the SxS double's extra round in order to chamber a more powerful round (pressure-wise) than most doubles can reliably fire in a lighter and more maneuverable rig than a heavy bolt rifle. This is why the Ruger falling-block rifles come in chamberings like .458 Lott, .458 3" Nitro Express, and .404 Jeffrey.

If long-range accuracy from a modern rifle and round is what you're after, go with the turnbolt. If you need to stop something large and angry RIGHTNOW, get the falling-block in something stompy and save up for a big Mauser or a SxS. If you want to save weight, invest in the falling-block, lots of ammo, and LOTS of practice.

All just my opinion; YMMV.

Smackre · 04-22-2010, 02:38 AM

I'm looking for something heavy so it sits on bags really nice. Heavy barrel. What do you mean by turn bolt?

You cant you standard 300 win mag bullets in a Weatherby?

The_Dunedan · 04-22-2010, 05:37 AM

Turn-bolt = bolt-action.

Very, very few Weatherby rifles are chambered in non-Weatherby rounds. I've seen exactly -one- Weatherby in .300 Winchester Mag and one in .247 Roberts: every other Weatherby I've ever sold or seen has been in one of their proprietary chamberings. Weatherby rifles in standard chamberings also command a premium of up to 35%, so expect to pay quite a bit more if you find one.

Also, big game hunting doesn't usually mean shooting off sandbags. It means humping through the woods, climbing up trees, slogging through the muck, and slithering around the mountains. Unless you're out west someplace shooting off the hood of a truck, or using some kind of F-Class monster to drop elk from a mile+ away, you're gonna have to carry this thing. A sandbaggable, heavy-barreled monster is probably not what you want for something like that.

Question; where do you anticipate hunting with this rig? And what game?

Walt · 04-22-2010, 08:30 AM

I'd second the vote for a 700 for the same well-stated reasons above. Also, how long is long-range hunting?

I have a bit of an issue with shooting anything bigger than gophers past 300 yards. While hitting deer-sized game at 300 yards isn't all that difficult, hitting them cleanly for the quick one-shot kill is. A decent hunter can stalk within 100-200 yards of any animal on this planet.

Smackre · 04-22-2010, 03:56 PM

Well most of my long range stuff will be done at targets. I just wanna see how much i can push myself as far as accuracy. I have a chance at getting a weatherby 300 win mag for 600$.

I have no plans on going hunting for big game atm. But I know I want to go in the future so I want to have the gun ready. The reloaded ammo ready and the scope ready. Kinda a planning ahead thing.

And I know about carrier a gun for a long range. Up hills and etc. I have been hunting for a long time. I do a lot of trekking up hills and etc groundhog hunting and deer hunting.

I am just looking to get the most accurate rifle I can in 300 win mag. Mostly because I wanna see how far I can push it out.

Also I am looking to get a rifle that looks good. I have seen the new Rugers and Remington. I don't like the look of the plastic or laminated stocks. I want wood and I want nice wood. Something with some nice grain and checkering. I understand that it is not the best gun to take into the woods but I'm not a fan of owning a gun I am not proud of.

04-20-2010, 06:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Smackre Addict	Bolt vs Break Open What are the pro's and con's on both. Was thinking about getting a Ruger model 1 in 300 win mag for long range big game. But can't decide if I can deal with the break open. I have herd that break open guns have tighter machined chambers so there for would be more accurate. Smackre, __________________ Intel® Pentium® M Processor 730 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen XGA+ Display 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz 2 Dimm 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800 Last edited by Smackre; 04-20-2010 at 06:47 PM..

04-21-2010, 04:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
raptor9k Crazy Location: Earth	deleted Last edited by raptor9k; 09-07-2021 at 10:12 AM..

04-21-2010, 04:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
Smackre Addict	I was looking a ruger m77's and remington 700's. Also was looking at a Weatherby bolt's. As far as single shots I was mostly looking at Ruger #1's __________________ Intel® Pentium® M Processor 730 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen XGA+ Display 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz 2 Dimm 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800

04-21-2010, 07:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Go with the Remington, if you're after a boltgun. Ruger's bolt-action rifles are OK, but only just. The trigger has always been a particular weak point; Ruger pioneered the "Lawyer-proof" 9lb trigger back in the day. The M77 no longer exists (it's the "Hawkeye" now), and it may be that the new generation of post-Ruger-family rifles are abit better. I'd still hold off. Weatherby makes a fine rifle, but ammo is extremely expensive and frequently difficult to locate, plus reloading is a colossal PITA thanks to the Weatherby's rounded case shoulder which requires very expensive Weatherby-specific tools. And that's -before- you get to the recoil, which runs the gamut from the extremely unpleasant to the nigh-on-intolerable. Ruger does make a very nice single-shot. However, the type of action has nothing to do with the chamber of the bbl per se. What you're looking for here is a tight lockup between bolt, cartridge, and chamber. Especially important is the bolt/chamber interface, where the bolt locks into the rear of the barrel. Boltguns and falling-block rifles may -start- with similarly tight lockups, but the falling-block weapon will lose that tightness earlier and with greater severity, since it primarily locks into the receiver of the weapon and not the barrel, and will get battered by recoil and chamber pressure spikes. This can be avoided with a dual lockup and proper bolstering, but to get -that- kind of detail you're looking at Dakota Arms or something in that neighborhood: real "arm and a leg" territory. Consider: if falling-block weapons -were- more accurate than boltguns, 1000yrd+ centerfire match shooters would be using them. They're not. The only long-range competitors who use falling-block guns are the "Creedmore" style blackpowder guys, who (no surprise) love the Sharps and Remington Rolling Block. If those types of actions could outperform boltguns with modern cartridges, they'd be a -lot- more prevalent than they are. Where falling-block guns -do- still have a following is among Dangerous Game hunters, who are sometimes willing to sacrifice the SxS double's extra round in order to chamber a more powerful round (pressure-wise) than most doubles can reliably fire in a lighter and more maneuverable rig than a heavy bolt rifle. This is why the Ruger falling-block rifles come in chamberings like .458 Lott, .458 3" Nitro Express, and .404 Jeffrey. If long-range accuracy from a modern rifle and round is what you're after, go with the turnbolt. If you need to stop something large and angry RIGHTNOW, get the falling-block in something stompy and save up for a big Mauser or a SxS. If you want to save weight, invest in the falling-block, lots of ammo, and LOTS of practice. All just my opinion; YMMV. Last edited by The_Dunedan; 04-21-2010 at 08:16 PM..

04-22-2010, 02:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
Smackre Addict	I'm looking for something heavy so it sits on bags really nice. Heavy barrel. What do you mean by turn bolt? You cant you standard 300 win mag bullets in a Weatherby? __________________ Intel® Pentium® M Processor 730 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen XGA+ Display 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz 2 Dimm 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800

04-22-2010, 05:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Turn-bolt = bolt-action. Very, very few Weatherby rifles are chambered in non-Weatherby rounds. I've seen exactly -one- Weatherby in .300 Winchester Mag and one in .247 Roberts: every other Weatherby I've ever sold or seen has been in one of their proprietary chamberings. Weatherby rifles in standard chamberings also command a premium of up to 35%, so expect to pay quite a bit more if you find one. Also, big game hunting doesn't usually mean shooting off sandbags. It means humping through the woods, climbing up trees, slogging through the muck, and slithering around the mountains. Unless you're out west someplace shooting off the hood of a truck, or using some kind of F-Class monster to drop elk from a mile+ away, you're gonna have to carry this thing. A sandbaggable, heavy-barreled monster is probably not what you want for something like that. Question; where do you anticipate hunting with this rig? And what game?

04-22-2010, 08:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	I'd second the vote for a 700 for the same well-stated reasons above. Also, how long is long-range hunting? I have a bit of an issue with shooting anything bigger than gophers past 300 yards. While hitting deer-sized game at 300 yards isn't all that difficult, hitting them cleanly for the quick one-shot kill is. A decent hunter can stalk within 100-200 yards of any animal on this planet. __________________ Calmer than you are...

04-22-2010, 03:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Smackre Addict	Well most of my long range stuff will be done at targets. I just wanna see how much i can push myself as far as accuracy. I have a chance at getting a weatherby 300 win mag for 600$. I have no plans on going hunting for big game atm. But I know I want to go in the future so I want to have the gun ready. The reloaded ammo ready and the scope ready. Kinda a planning ahead thing. And I know about carrier a gun for a long range. Up hills and etc. I have been hunting for a long time. I do a lot of trekking up hills and etc groundhog hunting and deer hunting. I am just looking to get the most accurate rifle I can in 300 win mag. Mostly because I wanna see how far I can push it out. Also I am looking to get a rifle that looks good. I have seen the new Rugers and Remington. I don't like the look of the plastic or laminated stocks. I want wood and I want nice wood. Something with some nice grain and checkering. I understand that it is not the best gun to take into the woods but I'm not a fan of owning a gun I am not proud of. __________________ Intel® Pentium® M Processor 730 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen XGA+ Display 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz 2 Dimm 256MB NVIDA® GeForce™ Go 6800 Last edited by Smackre; 04-22-2010 at 04:00 PM..