Open Carry - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dksuddeth · 10-10-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Simply because one looks out of place to me and one doesn't. If I went to a auto shop and saw someone carrying a crow bar I wouldn't think of it. Same guy walking down the street with the crow bar would make me pause.

so does a police officer wearing his gun make you pause? i'm guessing not.

what about in states like virginia or arizona? Open carry is a state constitutional right and perfectly legal. Would you pause upon seeing someone wearing a gun who is not a police officer in either of those states?

Tully Mars · 10-10-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

so does a police officer wearing his gun make you pause? i'm guessing not.

Not unless I knew them personally and thought they were hot heads who would be better suited in another occupation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

what about in states like virginia or arizona? Open carry is a state constitutional right and perfectly legal. Would you pause upon seeing someone wearing a gun who is not a police officer in either of those states?

I don't have much experience in those states. Haven't been to Va. My time in Az was mostly around Sedona. Don't remember seeing anyone practicing open carry. Had I seen someone doing so out and about on a trail it wouldn't have caused me any concern. In a bar where alcohol is being served, yeah I'd find another bar. Firearms and alcohol are a bad mix IMO and one of the main reasons I switched to bow hunting.

dksuddeth · 10-10-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Not unless I knew them personally and thought they were hot heads who would be better suited in another occupation.

so cops carrying guns, ok. citizens carrying weapons, not ok. the next question would be do you trust people you CAN'T see wearing a gun?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I don't have much experience in those states. Haven't been to Va. My time in Az was mostly around Sedona. Don't remember seeing anyone practicing open carry. Had I seen someone doing so out and about on a trail it wouldn't have caused me any concern. In a bar where alcohol is being served, yeah I'd find another bar. Firearms and alcohol are a bad mix IMO and one of the main reasons I switched to bow hunting.

I didn't bring a bar or alcohol in to the equation, did you do so to paint a bad judgement aspect to it? what if it was walmart? or mcdonalds? would you then go to another walmart or mcdonalds?

Tully Mars · 10-10-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

so cops carrying guns, ok. citizens carrying weapons, not ok. the next question would be do you trust people you CAN'T see wearing a gun?

I don't remember saying "citizens carrying weapons, not ok." I remember saying seeing people practicing open carry in certain situations give me pause.

For the most part I trust people, whether they're carrying a gun or not. Though I would be more watchful of a person openly carrying a firearm. But thats simply due to the fact that I know they have the potential to reach out and hurt me and those around me. If I saw something in their behavior that caused me concern I'd leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

I didn't bring a bar or alcohol in to the equation, did you do so to paint a bad judgement aspect to it? what if it was walmart? or mcdonalds? would you then go to another walmart or mcdonalds?

I brought up the alcohol/bar scenario as an example of a situation where I would be concerned enough to remove myself if I saw firearms being openly carried. Again I just don't think they mix well.

In Wal-Mart or Mickey "D's"? In downtown Phoenix, probably not. In downtown Chicago or New York City, yes.

dksuddeth · 10-10-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I don't remember saying "citizens carrying weapons, not ok." I remember saying seeing people practicing open carry in certain situations give me pause.

For the most part I trust people, whether they're carrying a gun or not. Though I would be more watchful of a person openly carrying a firearm. But thats simply due to the fact that I know they have the potential to reach out and hurt me and those around me. If I saw something in their behavior that caused me concern I'd leave.

ok, i take this to mean that you look for behavior patterns instead of just wearing a gun. perfectly fine i think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I brought up the alcohol/bar scenario as an example of a situation where I would be concerned enough to remove myself if I saw firearms being openly carried. Again I just don't think they mix well.

I agree. I'd be looking for someplace else to be myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

In Wal-Mart or Mickey "D's"? In downtown Phoenix, probably not. In downtown Chicago or New York City, yes.

considering the gun laws in chi and nyc, i'd be surprised they hadn't been arrested yet.

dksuddeth · 12-02-2008, 02:19 PM

updating on open carry in Texas.

Push for Open Carry Gun Law Hits Texas | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

Since 1996, people who want to carry a gun in Texas have had to apply for a license and conceal it in public, but some said the rules are too strict for a state known for its love of arms.

Now, there is a new push to loosen gun laws in Texas. A group of gun advocates are hoping the next legislature will consider a bill that would allow people to carry guns out in the open.

Texas is one of just six states requiring people to carry their handguns concealed. The law means people have to be licensed and pass a training course.

It's something gun advocates like Duane Suddeth don't like.

"So, for a person to exercise their right to self-defense, they needs to shell out about $225 or more," said Suddeth.

Suddeth is fighting for an open carry law in Texas; something 44 other states already have.

It would do away with all the fees and mean you could carry a gun on your hip for all the world to see.

"Criminals are not going to want to target a person who has the ability to fight back with lethal force," said Suddeth.

"Ever since this country was founded, the legitimate way to carry was open, so people knew what you were doing was legitimate, you had a gun and you're not trying to hide anything," said Daniel Vanhoose, employee at DFW Gun Range,

Most gun owners obviously support the law, but some said they won't benefit much from it.

"I think I would still conceal mine, because I think I would feel more safe," said Crystal Ellenbrook.

For many, like Louis Alexander, who don't carry guns, there's a concern that an open carry law would mean a return to the wild west.

"People walking around with guns in the wide open, they're just ready for a challenge. You know? I'm going to get you before you get me," said Alexander.

Tully Mars · 12-02-2008, 02:31 PM

Interesting article, but this Duane Suddeth guy sounds like a nut job.

dksuddeth · 12-02-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Interesting article, but this Duane Suddeth guy sounds like a nut job.

He's crazy insane brother.

Tully Mars · 12-02-2008, 02:40 PM

Probably scarred by years of being a misguided child of Uncle Sam.

Slims · 12-02-2008, 02:41 PM

It seems like it would be difficult to get the necessary momentum to get an open carry law.

Do you think you have a good chance of pulling it off, or are you fighting the good fight as part of a more comprehensive activism portfolio?

Good luck either way.

dksuddeth · 12-02-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg700

It seems like it would be difficult to get the necessary momentum to get an open carry law.

Do you think you have a good chance of pulling it off, or are you fighting the good fight as part of a more comprehensive activism portfolio?

It was difficult getting started. Not too many legislators showed any interest because we weren't the TSRA and we couldn't get the TSRA to support us. Once the billboard went up in Austin and the news articles came out, regular texans took notice and the amount of correspondence to legislators has been immense. It might even have more support than TSRAs concealed campus law they want passed.

What we want with open carry is no license and no extra restrictions like PA, WI, or KY has, meaning that we don't want to be told that open carry is legal but prohibited in Dallas, or that we can carry openly but in a vehicle it must be in the glove box unless you have a CHL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg700

Good luck either way.

Thanks. I think we have a great shot because it now has the governers support.
-----Added 2/12/2008 at 05 : 52 : 57-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Probably scarred by years of being a misguided child of Uncle Sam.

knows no fear after being a misguided child. Thats what makes him unpredictable and scary. total time bomb waiting to go off.

Cynthetiq · 04-22-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

AG Says Citizens Have Right To Openly Carry Firearms - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee
Van Hollen's Statement Creates Firestorm
MILWAUKEE -- Wisconsin's attorney general JB Van Hollen created a firestorm when he issued an advisory to district attorneys across the state that citizens have the right to openly carry firearms in Wisconsin.

"Our advice was people are permitted to openly carry firearms, that it wasn't in and of itself disorderly conduct. We intentionally didn't go into any factual based scenarios because they're all different," said Van Hollen.

"It's ridiculous to think someone should be allowed to walk down Wisconsin Avenue with a loaded firearm on their hip," said Gov. Jim Doyle.

The attorney general's advisory came after a number of district attorneys asked for guidance on the issue.

"The more people that have handguns, or wear handguns, the more chance there is for something bad going on. It's not black and white, just because you have a constitutional right to carry a handgun in the open, it doesn't mean carte blanche, you can carry it anywhere at anytime and do anything you want, " said Chief David Banaczynski, leader of the state Chief's Association.

A lawsuit filed by a Milwaukee man is one of the key cases leading to the attorney general's statement.

Jesus Gonzalez was Menard's in West Milwaukee last may with a handgun on his hip when the store manager called 911.

Gonzalez was arrested in the parking lot and cite for disorderly conduct. But, a municipal judge found that Gonzalez did nothing illegal and dropped the charge.

Earlier this month, Gonzalez filed a federal lawsuit after he was arrested in Chilton for carrying a gun in Wal-Mart.

"I carry because it's a right. I'm not doing anything illegal. I see no problem with it," said Gonzalez.

Gonzalez said he began carrying a gun a few years ago after he was mugged by three men and no longer felt safe.

"One with the screwdriver had it up to my neck and I remember thinking, never again. That next time, I'm gonna have a gun. That next time, I'm going to be ready one way or another," said Gonzalez.

The police in Chilton still have Gonzalez's gun.

He said he well aware that he can not have a load gun in his car or carry it near a school or anywhere prohibited.

He said he also knows that he can not take it out of the holster or threaten anyone.

But, Gonzalez is convinced that he is safer with his handgun on his hip,

"Having the gun open is kind of a deterrent. People don't want to mess with you at all. They see the gun and they head the other way. You know, criminals," said Gonzalez.

A constitutional scholar at Marquette University said that the issue is all shades of gray.

What if you're simply wandering around someplace where that gun makes people nervous. What are the police able to do with you," said Professor Rick Esenberg.

Esenberg suggested that the legislature may want to again take up the issue of a concealed carry law which would place some limits on where a gun can be carried and perhaps require training.

The local police chief's have a monthly meeting on Wednesday and this is expected to be the dominant conversation

Quote:

Milwaukee Chief To Officers: Ignore Gun Memo - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee

POSTED: 8:55 pm CDT April 21, 2009
UPDATED: 9:10 am CDT April 22, 2009
MILWAUKEE -- Milwaukee's police chief said he'll go on telling his officers to take down anyone with a firearm despite Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's finding that people can carry guns openly if they do it peacefully.

Chief Ed Flynn said officers can't assume people are carrying guns legally in a city that has seen nearly 200 homicides in the past two years.

He said that means officers seeing anybody carrying a gun will put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide if the person has a right to carry it.

Flynn said it's irresponsible to send a message that if someone carries a weapon openly no one can bother them.

Van Hollen issued a memo to the state's district attorneys this week saying someone openly carrying a gun can't automatically be charged with disorderly conduct. But he also said police have full rights to stop and question the person.

Flynn said his officers will do more than that in their efforts to fight crime.

I find it disconcerting that the Police chief suggests to IGNORE the AG's orders. Police officers deciding how to interpret the laws....

ChrisJericho · 04-22-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I find it disconcerting that the Police chief suggests to IGNORE the AG's orders. Police officers deciding how to interpret the laws....

Wow that quote from the Milwaukee Police Chief is amazing, it's almost seems like something you would read on April Fool's day.

So he is telling his officers to "put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide if the person has a right to carry it."

So using this logic, whenever they see someone driving an automobile in public they should also force the citizen to the ground and decide whether or not they can legally drive it. After all, automobiles are extremely dangerous and kill thousands of people every year.

inBOIL · 04-22-2009, 11:53 PM

Step 1: Move to Milwaukee and carry openly.
Step 2: Get "put on the ground"
Step 3: Profit.

JoeBlow131b · 04-23-2009, 06:06 AM

I've had a CCW for over 10 years and I carry daily. But, I think it is rude to open carry and tactically unsound. Just my thoughts...

Walt · 04-23-2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBlow131b

I've had a CCW for over 10 years and I carry daily. But, I think it is rude to open carry and tactically unsound. Just my thoughts...

Im inclined to agree. I've spent a little bit of time around firearms and I am comfortable with them but thats because I know my own abilities and limitations. I just don't trust strangers walking around with guns. A random dude diddy-bopping around town with a pistol on his hip would make me (and most people) uncomfortable enough that we would leave the scene. To put it another way, open carry is a pretty quick way to put a lot of people on edge while drawing attention to yourself.

While I totally support the right to carry openly, I have never done it in my personal (as opposed to professional) life as a courtesy to the folks around me.

dksuddeth · 04-24-2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inBOIL

Step 1: Move to Milwaukee and carry openly.
Step 2: Get "put on the ground"
Step 3: Profit.

this. I may have to visit home.....real soon.

Though this may be just a lot of 'bluster' for ol' chief Flynn, the people in wisconsin that I know will be giving the chief and his 'troops' notice that his flagrant abuse of authority could lead to some very tragic endings.......for both sides.

12-02-2008, 02:19 PM	#86 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	updating on open carry in Texas. Push for Open Carry Gun Law Hits Texas \| NBC Dallas-Fort Worth Since 1996, people who want to carry a gun in Texas have had to apply for a license and conceal it in public, but some said the rules are too strict for a state known for its love of arms. Now, there is a new push to loosen gun laws in Texas. A group of gun advocates are hoping the next legislature will consider a bill that would allow people to carry guns out in the open. Texas is one of just six states requiring people to carry their handguns concealed. The law means people have to be licensed and pass a training course. It's something gun advocates like Duane Suddeth don't like. "So, for a person to exercise their right to self-defense, they needs to shell out about $225 or more," said Suddeth. Suddeth is fighting for an open carry law in Texas; something 44 other states already have. It would do away with all the fees and mean you could carry a gun on your hip for all the world to see. "Criminals are not going to want to target a person who has the ability to fight back with lethal force," said Suddeth. "Ever since this country was founded, the legitimate way to carry was open, so people knew what you were doing was legitimate, you had a gun and you're not trying to hide anything," said Daniel Vanhoose, employee at DFW Gun Range, Most gun owners obviously support the law, but some said they won't benefit much from it. "I think I would still conceal mine, because I think I would feel more safe," said Crystal Ellenbrook. For many, like Louis Alexander, who don't carry guns, there's a concern that an open carry law would mean a return to the wild west. "People walking around with guns in the wide open, they're just ready for a challenge. You know? I'm going to get you before you get me," said Alexander. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

12-02-2008, 02:31 PM	#87 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Interesting article, but this Duane Suddeth guy sounds like a nut job. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

12-02-2008, 02:40 PM	#89 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	Probably scarred by years of being a misguided child of Uncle Sam. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club Last edited by Tully Mars; 12-02-2008 at 03:01 PM..

12-02-2008, 02:41 PM	#90 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	It seems like it would be difficult to get the necessary momentum to get an open carry law. Do you think you have a good chance of pulling it off, or are you fighting the good fight as part of a more comprehensive activism portfolio? Good luck either way. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

04-22-2009, 11:53 PM	#94 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	Step 1: Move to Milwaukee and carry openly. Step 2: Get "put on the ground" Step 3: Profit. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

04-23-2009, 06:06 AM	#95 (permalink)
JoeBlow131b Upright	I've had a CCW for over 10 years and I carry daily. But, I think it is rude to open carry and tactically unsound. Just my thoughts...