Fire

I am waiting on my permit to aqquire a bhp, and have come across one point of contention, that being whether it is safe to carry this pistol in condition one ie cocked and locked- I have read that many do this but that the pistol was not designed for it- does anyone know what the situation is on this??????

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Slims

Old BHP's did not have a trigger safety nor did they have the larger external safety. So it was possible for a blow to the back of the hammer to cause a discharge, and the safety was hard to manipulate. Now, the safety has been enlarged and made easier to operate, and (as far as I know) all new BHP's are sold with a firing pin safety which prevents the weapon from firing even if the hammer is crushed into the firing pin. So (as far as I know) it is perfectly safe to carry in condition one provided you practice safe gun handling.

Since the BHP is a single action only weapon, you would have to manually cock the pistol if carrying condition 2 before you can shoot it. You can't just fire double action. Of course, it is possible to screw that up and break your thumb by shooting before you get your thumb out of the way, or droping the pistol, etc. I feel this presents more of a hazard than carrying condition 1.

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Fire

mine is an argentine fm model, an early one made on FN tools and with their blessing and supervision- circa 196o something- any way to know if that one has a firing pin safety? I actually enjoy carrying in condition 2, and have yet to fuck up my thumb, but if it doesnt have the safety, I would be concerned with it being drop safe......

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ziadel

condition one is the only way to go man.

Been carrying that way since I got my first pistol. Yes you will get comments about it from anyone who sees it (ignore them)

Keep in mind, Glocks are single action with no safety, people carry them in condition 0 all the time.


If your pistol is that old I doubt it has the firing pin safety, and you're running the very real risk of the gun going off if you lower the hammer with a live round in the chamber.

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Acetylene

Don't worry about the absence of a firing pin safety. The firing pin safety is there as a drop safety. The odds of the gun discharging when dropped are very low even without the firing pin safety.

The half-cock notch is the safety intended to keep the gun from firing in case the sear slips out of the hammer hooks.

The manual safety blocks the sear (and indirectly the trigger) and prevents it from clearing the hammer hooks.

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Plan9

Safe carry?

Cock it. Safety up. Put it in the holster.

Question answered.

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Fire

thanks, this synchs up with what I have read, but since the pistol in question is surplus and does not come with a manual i figured better safe than sorry......

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Plan9

God, also known as John Browning, designed the Hi-Power as the final evolution to his 1911 pistol (which was essentially just a prototyped pushed into production due to demand)... it doesn't really matter who makes it as long as they have good enough tolerances to keep it as planned.

Hi-Power is an awesome gun.

The guy was a genius.

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ziadel

uh.... Browning died before the High-Power was fully realized, others had to finish the design...

and he did'nt design that gun as the evolution of the 1911, he designed it around the patents of the 1911 because he sold that gun to Colt.


and the 1911 was not a prototype that was rushed in to production due to demand... I've never heard that before.

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Fire

On a note related to my high power- does anyone know where to find directions for removing and cleaning the extractor- looks like the previous owner did not take great care of it before i got it, and the extractor is caked with carbon- had many failures to extract first time I shot it and need to clean it- may also need to replace the extractor spring....

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Plan9

Yes, I know Browning died in 1927 and the HP was finished by a chap named Saive from the FN Company. The 1911 wasn't a finished design according to many sources involved in the production and was rushed into mass roll-out due to the needs of the US military for a decent platform to throw .45 rounds.

The HP obviously isn't the same pistol, but it is JBs last design and thus considered his culmination.

Blah-blah. Its a damn fine pistol despite the fact that it doesn't come in .45.

...

Fire,

Is this your issue?

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/L...red%20Case.htm

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ziadel

what are these sources exactly?

I've never heard anything like this.

From what I understand, testing was from 1907 to 1911, how exactly was the design rushed?

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Fire

thanks crompsin, but this is happening midway through a magazine, and that site says that its due to the copious amounts of crap in the extractor preventing it from working quite right (it moves on a spring driven pivot, but cannot do so cause of crud accumulated in the way) i was looking for info on disassembling it for a good cleaning..........

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ziadel

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/BrowningHPPistol.asp


HiPower detail strip.


http://www.marstar.ca/AssemblyBrowning35HP.htm


and another.


both show how to get the extractor out.

be careful, parts can go flying when you do this.

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Plan9

GOOD IDEA: Always take guns apart in the bathtub with the shower curtain closed and the drain plugged.

Magnetic trays are always handy.

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ziadel

yeahl, I was pissed when the firing pn from my 1911 shot behind this huge dresser I have. THen I became livid when I realized it was titanium and my magnet would not retrieve it.

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Plan9

Hahah, that sucks.

I lost a spring taking down something... I think it was a 1911 mainspring during a rebuild... shot off onto the carpet and the cat got it.

I never saw it again. My cat, however, is always around during gun work.

The bathtub with shower curtain and magnet trays are the answer.

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Whatever you can carry.

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Kingruv

Fire,

From your choice of the BHP from all the guns out there, I salute you for a great choice and doing your homework.

As to your question about the extractor:

1. Look at Brownells before you go further. There is a pretty good breakdown diagram for most American market guns there including the HP. Look at 3 things: the Wolff reduced load firing pin spring kit, the cost of a new extra firing pin and the extractor spring. On the page,
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sch...del=Hi-Power++
There is a list of available parts for what they have.
Those you can purchase without an ffl are unmarked. Those requiring an ffl are indicated.

2. If you don’t have a spring pin/roll pin punch set look at
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...LL+PIN+PUNCHES
If you’re not familiar with these you will be when you see them.
For driving out the hollow spring rolled pins that are so hard to get out without them. Not all HP’s have extractors held in by spring pins but I have seen few that didn’t.

3. Don’t degunk the extractor before removing.
The gunk can help slow down the inertia of the spring and slow its bounce if it does get away from you.

IF you have tried to clean it some already and even if not a good thing to do is put duct tape of masking tape around the slide to help hold and or catch the parts. Wrap a single layer around the slide and only expose the area where the pin is driven out. You can drive through the tape but this risks getting adhesive in the hole.

Inspect the spring closely to make sure there’s no kinks at all and no broken sections of coil missing near the ends.
It really wouldn’t hurt to replace this spring along with the recoil spring and firing pin spring. These are the 3 most worked parts in the gun relative to their strength and job.
Also look carefully at the extractor to make sure its smooth all the way around without having excess wear under the extractor face itself. It should be flat at the edge but smooth and not sharp.
Sometimes folks get happy with cheap ammo and buy old combloc surplus ammo that will damage gun parts. Varying amounts of extractor damage is a high crime area where this is concerned.

4. When holding the slide, locking it up in your vise is ok as long as you have wood blocks (white pine for this job) and tape the slide to prevent scratches. Don’t squeeze the slide too tight of course but make sure it is seated down far enough to get the solid cross section and not on the rails.

5. While at Brownells look at the bench blocks
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...&ps=10&si=True

There are a number of them there. Some general purpose, some weapon specific. While they are handy, you can make your own from solid material.
A good thick piece of hard maple about 2” thick is a great start.
Just make it to fit what you need. I make single use blocks to fit my vise or bench.
Drill some holes in logical order around the block as you go according to what you need, where you need it. (just not too close to the edge.
If a pin is 3/32” drill the hole just slightly larger all the way through. Turn the block over and drill out that hole to about ½” from the face with a drill at least 4 times the size so the pin can release when it comes through.

6. Crompsin mentioned a magnetic catch tray. Capitol idea! If you have gunky parts you can lay a paper towel wetted with Hoppes solvent or other cleaner to help prevent bounce and help keep the tray clean, the magnets still work. If you see mush being attracted in pattern to the magnet look to see if it is fine metal and not just powder fouling and brass. If you’re using a metal magnetic tray you can also use it to flush the parts by using a fine mesh metal screen in the bottom of the tray to let residue float through. Some people use a stainless steel metal food colander to do this but some are too open mesh.

Clean and inspect

7. Check the pin as well as the extractor for excess wear. The fouling as you are aware can cause uneven wear as well binding. The pin MAY need to be replaced but not likely.
8. The parts can be treated with Miltec-1 and then wiped dry to both coat and lube without remaining wet. Some people will use grease in this orifice hoping to block out fouling. This was probably the best way in the winter of’39. When the gun warms up after several shots or 80 degree plus weather, this is totally counter productive. The Miltec-1 can also be used for the feed ramp, slide rails and other metal to metal as well.
Mixed with the oil in my 30 hp immersion rotary screw air-compressor it cooled the beast from a rather warm 195 degrees down to 169 degrees. This was using 6 ounces in 5 gallons of synthetic fluid. This of course is used wet. When wiped down dry it continues to bind to metal surfaces for a very prolonged period.

Reassembly
Take your sweet time

9. If everything is close and tight putting the extractor back in can be a thumb bruiser. A leather finger cot like used for working with sharpened fishing hooks can come in handy.
10. Make sure the orifice is clean.
11. Replace parts into position and use a loose fitting pin punch to hold parts in slot.
Manipulate extractor to check for smoothness.

12. Re-tape extractor by wrapping slide in tape a second time.
13. Push pin back into place, pushing against smaller pin punch to transfer contact until roll pin passes back through hinge hole. Certainly this can be a little tricky. If needed the end of the pin inserted can be slightly rounded to help make this smoother. Place pin in drill chuck and spin against file or sand paper to bevel.
14. When extractor pin is in correct position go ahead and slide smaller pin out.
15. With slide secure, tap pin back into final position.
16. Recheck extractor to assure smooth function
17. Use dummy rounds to check extraction after reassembly of weapon.

You probably know most of this but just in case someone else doesn’t it can be saved for later.

There are some tune up’s you can do to make things smoother and better if you’re interested.

Fire

thank you for all that - think I've got it tuned right and all the crud out- nothing looks particularly worn, but wont know till I get to the range, maybe on the weekend.......... let everyone know how it turns out then.....

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Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens