Microsoft says Firefox not a threat to IE - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ydde · 11-15-2004, 12:38 AM

I know there are various thread on this topic. But this is hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Here's the link

Quote:

Just days after the launch of open-source browser Firefox 1.0, Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.

At a security roundtable discussion in Sydney on Thursday, Ben English, Microsoft's security and management product manager, told attendees that IE undergoes "rigorous code reviews" and is no less secure than any other browser.

"Because IE is ubiquitous, you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," English said.

Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, agreed, saying he does not believe IE's market share is under attack following the recent high-profile debut of the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser.

Vamos said that although he has heard other people mention the competitive threat posed by Firefox, he doesn't see it as a problem.

"I'm not sure that that is the reality. I have seen comments around that, but there is nothing I can refer to that really supports that," he said. Instead, Vamos said, consumers need to be educated about all the features already offered by Microsoft's browser.

"We probably need to do a bit of work to communicate the features that are in IE," he said.

Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox, said there is a lot of hype surrounding the open-source movement and that if Microsoft's customers wanted new features, they would have told the company about it.

"I don't agree that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important," he said. "It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use.

"If there are features in our products that are subpar or need to be added, then I have great confidence that we are an organization that responds pretty quickly and effectively to that."

English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing are not important to IE users.

"I don't believe it is a true statement that IE doesn't have the features that our customers want," he said. "We take user feedback very seriously. If you have that feedback, then you should feed it back to us because we will feed it to the product team."

Ross Fowler, managing director of Cisco Systems Australia and New Zealand, said the networking giant uses IE internally but only after deploying Cisco's Secure Agent, which is a desktop utility that monitors all activity and alerts the user if it spots something unusual--such as a keystroke-logging program.

"Internally, we have deployed Cisco Secure Agent to prevent those day-zero attacks, and we have more and more of our customers--particularly in the university sector--deploying the Cisco Secure Agent," Fowler said.

The words in bold are hilarious.

Well firefox might not be a threat now, but it is certainly catching up. It wil force them to feed the feedback to the product team a lot faster.

BoltedDown · 11-15-2004, 02:43 AM

Yeah, i'm using Firefox as I type. I like it a lot. We shall see how the giant does...

Fallon · 11-15-2004, 03:37 AM

Pfft, not a threat...so various large media entities saying "switch to firefox or some other browser" is good news?

sashime76 · 11-15-2004, 05:02 AM

I think that's kind of what Yahoo used to think of Google, so, do you Yahoo? or Google? MS/IE may be bundled with WinWhatever but FireFox will be the browser of choice.

Lasereth · 11-15-2004, 05:02 AM

I agree with the article. IE is underrated and FireFox is overrated.

To each his own!

-Lasereth

Redlemon · 11-15-2004, 06:46 AM

"Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox..." So, he's just talking out of his ass.

It is true, IE will continue to have a significant amount of market share for quite a while, because so many people don't even know what a browser is, and they think that their Yahoo homepage is the internet. But I think a lot of places were waiting for Firefox to reach 1.0, and now it is time to help our AOL-using mothers to make the switch.

WillyPete · 11-15-2004, 06:48 AM

"I don't agree that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important," he said. "It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use."

Like the car industry and seatbelts, anti-lock braking...

Stare At The Sun · 11-15-2004, 06:50 AM

Meh, I'm using firefox, and i'll never go back

It is simply a better browser.

aberkok · 11-15-2004, 10:50 AM

Why would people give feedback to Microsoft when they feel as though they won't be heard? Along comes Mozilla, with a way better browser, FOR FREE, with no strings attached! Firefox gave people a bunch of features they may not have known they needed, but that's fine because it's free.

People like Firefox because they hear about it from people they know and often trust, unlike IE, which is usually recommended by your system admin. at work or something. I feel very bitten in the @$$ often when using Microsoft stuff (because I wan't to use a PC and haven't made the jump to Linux yet). I find Firefox frees me from that.

bendsley · 11-15-2004, 12:14 PM

I remember a time when Microsoft also said that Linux was not a threat to Windows.

Glory's Sun · 11-15-2004, 12:58 PM

Since when does Microsoft respond quickly to anything? Microshit knows that FF is a threat or the article would never have been written. I have yet to show anyone FF and they say.. "No thanks I like IE better"

superiorrain · 11-15-2004, 01:22 PM

I've converted to Firefox and i plan to spread the word. Firefox will have a snowball effect which i hope Microsoft will legitimately try and stop it. It's about time that they stepped and be counted, it's about time that they sorted out all their problems. Healthy competition has never hurt anyone. Till that time long live Firefox and all other future reincarnation of it. I for one will be there everystep of the way.

DEI37 · 11-15-2004, 03:04 PM

I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.

Redlemon · 11-15-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.

The cursor bug was patched just before the 1.0 release, and there were several speed patches between 0.9 and 1.0. And there were many many UI improvements, starting after 0.8. It's worth another check, if you have a spare half-hour.

jonjon42 · 11-15-2004, 04:08 PM

DEI37
where you using .3?.... I remember problems with everything up to .5 (when it was still named pheonix but after that everything ran pretty smoothly..but I never used the windows version so I don't know if their was a big difference.

killeena · 11-15-2004, 04:41 PM

I think a big thing that needs to happen for FF to be more widely accepted, is Manufacturers need to package it as an option on brand new computers. Most people look for the the thing on their desktop that says "Internet", and use that, not really caring what a browser is, and not knowing that their computer can easily be infected by adware, spyware, and the like. If someone like Dell installs that on all their computers, and maybe makes it the default browser, I think FF could really get a whole lot more market share.

Of course, who knows how MS would react to that.

shadowalker · 11-15-2004, 04:48 PM

Odd thing about firefox and IE is that IE seems to take up less system resources than FF does. IE on my system is using up ATM (7:45 PM) 11,823 K and FF is using up 28,450 K and the only thing open on both is Just TFproject. To each his own though, I hope firefox does give M$ a run for there money.

Fallon · 11-15-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowalker

Odd thing about firefox and IE is that IE seems to take up less system resources than FF does. IE on my system is using up ATM (7:45 PM) 11,823 K and FF is using up 28,450 K and the only thing open on both is Just TFproject. To each his own though, I hope firefox does give M$ a run for there money.

Reason being IE is tied into the OS, which is crap. If you took ie out of Win** then I bet they'd be running about the same.

Wingless · 11-16-2004, 11:25 AM

While the numbers may show IE taking up less resources, when I installed Firefox on a machine yesterday, FF moved 10x faster than IE did before it. You can show me lots of numbers but when I'm doing my plain-old web browsing, those numbers won't really matter.

Awu · 11-16-2004, 11:07 PM

On my slow computer, Firefox opens faster for me and doesn't really lag as much as IE. I also like Firefox because you can tab windows so i can have 10 pages open under one window.

SecretMethod70 · 11-16-2004, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.

Another thing to keep in mind is that pre-1.0 Firefox was technically not something intended for everyday use, unless of course you were planning to help with bug reporting. That's the significance of version numbering. 1.0 is technically the first version intended to be used by your every day user.

Ace_O_Spades · 11-16-2004, 11:58 PM

I think a car commercial stated my opinion of this thread perfectly

"It's not more than you need... just more than you're used to"

Thats how i feel about Firefox's features over IE's features

spade111 · 11-17-2004, 01:34 AM

Microsoft's PR wagon can spin this any way they want. They have a lot up their sleeve's when it comes to media exposure.

Fact of the matter is, MS 'acknowledges' the existance of Firefox, and knows that over the last few months, IE market share has erroded. That's the first time in a long time, to any degree worth writing about, that IE has lost ground.

Is MS worried. I don't think worried is the right word. I fear that all we've done is to wake a sleeping giant. MS has always been pretty swift to unhinge any legitimate competition... But the most effective route, and something MS is extremely good at, has been to shift the consumer away from even needing the alternative. When you have unlimited resources, and a plan... you get the idea.

The money as far as MS is concerned is in the move towards a .net world, where everything is covered by the MS blanket. Will Firefox matter in the end if they have their way? I don't think it will have much impact. How is a refrigerator going to order new groceries. How is a mouse going to deliver advertising. How are your RF ID's going to get from the back of your hand to the central WalMart Database...

The only way MS will pay closer attention to Firefox, is if it threatens in some way their domination of the information integration market. As it sits, all that FireFox really has going for it, is a cleaner, faster, and friendlier feel than IE, an awesome support community, the cool factor, plus a side order of "Stick it to the man itis". What does IE have... complete shell integration, 100% Windows penetration, hassle free updates, transparent usage to the uninformed computer user... and of course the full attention of a megaconglomerate multinational entity with endless supplies of cash, and a never ceasing hunger for total domination, no matter the cost.

Example. The Xbox was (not sure if it's still the case) sold at way below cost when it debued. It continued that way, even seeing serious price cuts, matching Sony all the way. To what end? Many say that software sales, and accessories were the motivation... but I think it was much more cunning. I think that MS wants to lull us all in, slowly to the idea of Media centric computing, and further down the road that Bill has forseen. If you go down to your local video game shop, you'll see a little remote control being offered by microsoft that introduces new capabilities to the little unit. Media center XBox. I think that the xbox was just the most compelling way that MS could attach themselves to your TV. It's not so strange... just upgrade the thing, then we can watch the OC... it's on the hard drive...

Xbox 2 will come in 3 different flavors...

-sans hard drive,
-with hard drive, options for sizes,
-full media center (advertising and consumer research model)

They've tried it before and failed... anyone remember webtv?

see this article for references made by the great bill himself.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10..._tv_obsession/

Hate to be that guy, but MS will always win. Who would turn down the financial security MS would be sure to provide if you had a better idea, for the easy to put aside self indulgance of being right.

Err.. right.. that's all way off topic. I guess lurking for so long does that to a post.

spade111 · 11-17-2004, 01:39 AM

btw... I like and use firefox, and I install in on all my image sets at work.

IE isn't really all that bad. I just like to have that feeling in the back of my head... like I'm doing something to slow them from owning my fingertips.

As soon as Microsoft and Walmart merge... count me in for that wagon heading up to the mountains. My luck the horses will be MS branded...

ev

Latch · 11-17-2004, 02:08 AM

Internet Explwhat?

Really.. I use Firefox.. but anything that makes Microsoft pay more attention to things like security holes is good. While I doubt I'll ever go back to IE (especially since I run Linux...), I don't have anything against other people doing it..... as long as the product isn't such a security hole.

Because IE is so integrated into WinWhatever, a lot of the bugs in 'IE' may be bugs in their shell in general... but they all get lumped into the IE category... I imagine if IE was so integrated there wouldn't be as many security holes. Anyways, I'm rambling.. point is.. I love FF.. but it's also good because it makes a safer product for people who don't use it.

MacGuyver · 11-17-2004, 06:51 PM

Firefox is amazing, I am very happy with it. It is beating the piss out of IE, in my book.

Irishsean · 11-17-2004, 07:04 PM

I switched to Firefox tonite and love it. Much friendlier and faster than IE in my opinion. Besides, the fox is coolie looking!

sixate · 11-17-2004, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I agree with the article. IE is underrated and FireFox is overrated.

To each his own!

-Lasereth

I have to agree.

I've tried FF 7 or 8 times now, and I just hate it. Sorry people, but it is slower, and it uses a helluva lot more of my system resources than IE. Overrated piece of shit.... Period........

Irishsean · 11-17-2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixate

I have to agree.

I've tried FF 7 or 8 times now, and I just hate it. Sorry people, but it is slower, and it uses a helluva lot more of my system resources than IE. Overrated piece of shit.... Period........

TFP pages load easily twice as fast as they did in IE for me... maybe your configured wrong?

Akira · 11-18-2004, 08:18 PM

It's all about customizing your browser. Firefox extensions let you do so many things, and you end up with a broswer that fits you like a glove.

The Magic · 11-18-2004, 10:18 PM

Firefox won't be a threat for one simple reason.

People will just be too lazy to download it. That's pretty much the only reason I haven't got it. I mean, I even know Firefox would most likely be better than Internet Explorer, but Internet Explorer does everything I need just fine and I'm simply too lazy to go out and try to replace it.

Lasereth · 11-19-2004, 06:31 AM

Firefox never will be a "threat." Let's pretend that every single PC user switches to Firefox. Then what? Everyone uses Firefox and not IE. It's not like Mozilla is developing an OS to end Microsoft. If no one uses IE it has literally no impact on Windows or Microsoft at all.

-Lasereth

DEI37 · 11-19-2004, 03:56 PM

Well, maybe I'll give it another shot. Thanks for the info!

TexanAvenger · 11-19-2004, 06:24 PM

I've been checking out Firefox since I first heard about it a good while back, and I am absolutely NOT going back to IE. I'm with Lasereth on how much of a "threat" it is to Microsoft, but whether it's a threat or not, I'm using it.

joeshoe · 11-19-2004, 07:57 PM

Har har, I bet they're really shaking in the silks. More likely they will simply copy Firefox in their next IE, and then hire an army of lawyers to suppress opposition.

DEI37 · 11-19-2004, 09:25 PM

They still haven't fixed the cursor problem. And, it's still not as fast as IE6.

Gatorade Frost · 11-19-2004, 10:38 PM

I started using Firefox about three versions ago and never looked back. I've noticed some seriously speeding up over time with the browser. The plugins and tools are incredibly useful (Especially the BBCode and BugMeNot one...). Some peopel say it uses up a lot more system resources but I've yet to see that to be the case. Generally with IE I've got enough pop-ups and the like to crash my system, I've yet to have Firefox kill my computer.

I've even started using Thunderbird for my e-mail expirience. I love it.

DEI37 · 11-27-2004, 11:06 AM

Any fix for the cursor problem? I've managed to "learn" how to see what's going on, but it drives me batty at times, still.

Strange Famous · 11-28-2004, 04:49 AM

I heard Firefox was better - so I dl'd it.

First site I log into wont load, because it tells me I need to dl flash player (by it always works on IE).. so I dl it, and Firefox closes itself, I have to start it again, go back, page loads, but through firefox none of my IE cookies seem to work so it doesnt remember my password... all my favorites are gone... I think I can import them... but the thing is... I might sound like a lazy ass, but I just want a browser that works easily and causes the minimum of problems. Whats so great about Firefox that makes it worth the effort of learning new software and so on when Ive been using IE for years now (I used to use Netscape, and I liked that better than IE, but the last two PC's Ive had just had IE alreayd loaded, so it was easier to use that than bother dl'ong something else)

DEI37 · 11-28-2004, 07:30 AM

During setup, it asks you if you want to import cookies, favorites, and all that stuff. You must have overlooked it.

11-15-2004, 05:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I agree with the article. IE is underrated and FireFox is overrated. To each his own! -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-15-2004, 10:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
aberkok “Wrong is right.” Location: toronto	Why would people give feedback to Microsoft when they feel as though they won't be heard? Along comes Mozilla, with a way better browser, FOR FREE, with no strings attached! Firefox gave people a bunch of features they may not have known they needed, but that's fine because it's free. People like Firefox because they hear about it from people they know and often trust, unlike IE, which is usually recommended by your system admin. at work or something. I feel very bitten in the @$$ often when using Microsoft stuff (because I wan't to use a PC and haven't made the jump to Linux yet). I find Firefox frees me from that. __________________ !check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

11-15-2004, 12:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
bendsley Professional Loafer Location: texas	I remember a time when Microsoft also said that Linux was not a threat to Windows. __________________ "You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

11-15-2004, 01:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
superiorrain Psycho Location: London	I've converted to Firefox and i plan to spread the word. Firefox will have a snowball effect which i hope Microsoft will legitimately try and stop it. It's about time that they stepped and be counted, it's about time that they sorted out all their problems. Healthy competition has never hurt anyone. Till that time long live Firefox and all other future reincarnation of it. I for one will be there everystep of the way. __________________ "The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C. Clarke

11-15-2004, 03:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

11-15-2004, 02:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
BoltedDown Crazy	Yeah, i'm using Firefox as I type. I like it a lot. We shall see how the giant does...

11-15-2004, 03:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fallon Junkie Location: RI	Pfft, not a threat...so various large media entities saying "switch to firefox or some other browser" is good news?

11-15-2004, 05:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
sashime76 Addict Location: Hoosier State	I think that's kind of what Yahoo used to think of Google, so, do you Yahoo? or Google? MS/IE may be bundled with WinWhatever but FireFox will be the browser of choice.

11-15-2004, 06:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	"Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox..." So, he's just talking out of his ass. It is true, IE will continue to have a significant amount of market share for quite a while, because so many people don't even know what a browser is, and they think that their Yahoo homepage is the internet. But I think a lot of places were waiting for Firefox to reach 1.0, and now it is time to help our AOL-using mothers to make the switch.

11-15-2004, 06:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	"I don't agree that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important," he said. "It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use." Like the car industry and seatbelts, anti-lock braking...

11-15-2004, 06:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	Meh, I'm using firefox, and i'll never go back It is simply a better browser.

11-15-2004, 12:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Since when does Microsoft respond quickly to anything? Microshit knows that FF is a threat or the article would never have been written. I have yet to show anyone FF and they say.. "No thanks I like IE better"

11-15-2004, 04:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	DEI37 where you using .3?.... I remember problems with everything up to .5 (when it was still named pheonix but after that everything ran pretty smoothly..but I never used the windows version so I don't know if their was a big difference. __________________ A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

11-15-2004, 04:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
killeena Crazy Location: Meechigan	I think a big thing that needs to happen for FF to be more widely accepted, is Manufacturers need to package it as an option on brand new computers. Most people look for the the thing on their desktop that says "Internet", and use that, not really caring what a browser is, and not knowing that their computer can easily be infected by adware, spyware, and the like. If someone like Dell installs that on all their computers, and maybe makes it the default browser, I think FF could really get a whole lot more market share. Of course, who knows how MS would react to that.

11-15-2004, 04:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
shadowalker Psycho Location: Firefox yourself and change the world!	Odd thing about firefox and IE is that IE seems to take up less system resources than FF does. IE on my system is using up ATM (7:45 PM) 11,823 K and FF is using up 28,450 K and the only thing open on both is Just TFproject. To each his own though, I hope firefox does give M$ a run for there money. __________________ I'll make ya famous!

11-17-2004, 06:51 PM	#26 (permalink)
MacGuyver You're going to have to trust me! Location: Massachusetts	Firefox is amazing, I am very happy with it. It is beating the piss out of IE, in my book. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. ---Aristotle Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me. ---John Fletcher

11-16-2004, 11:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
Wingless Psycho Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA	While the numbers may show IE taking up less resources, when I installed Firefox on a machine yesterday, FF moved 10x faster than IE did before it. You can show me lots of numbers but when I'm doing my plain-old web browsing, those numbers won't really matter. __________________ Tommy Nibs is a funny word. So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall... You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you. Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor

11-16-2004, 11:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
Awu Upright	On my slow computer, Firefox opens faster for me and doesn't really lag as much as IE. I also like Firefox because you can tab windows so i can have 10 pages open under one window.

11-16-2004, 11:58 PM	#22 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	I think a car commercial stated my opinion of this thread perfectly "It's not more than you need... just more than you're used to" Thats how i feel about Firefox's features over IE's features __________________ Feh.

11-17-2004, 01:34 AM	#23 (permalink)
spade111 Upright	IE hmmm? Microsoft's PR wagon can spin this any way they want. They have a lot up their sleeve's when it comes to media exposure. Fact of the matter is, MS 'acknowledges' the existance of Firefox, and knows that over the last few months, IE market share has erroded. That's the first time in a long time, to any degree worth writing about, that IE has lost ground. Is MS worried. I don't think worried is the right word. I fear that all we've done is to wake a sleeping giant. MS has always been pretty swift to unhinge any legitimate competition... But the most effective route, and something MS is extremely good at, has been to shift the consumer away from even needing the alternative. When you have unlimited resources, and a plan... you get the idea. The money as far as MS is concerned is in the move towards a .net world, where everything is covered by the MS blanket. Will Firefox matter in the end if they have their way? I don't think it will have much impact. How is a refrigerator going to order new groceries. How is a mouse going to deliver advertising. How are your RF ID's going to get from the back of your hand to the central WalMart Database... The only way MS will pay closer attention to Firefox, is if it threatens in some way their domination of the information integration market. As it sits, all that FireFox really has going for it, is a cleaner, faster, and friendlier feel than IE, an awesome support community, the cool factor, plus a side order of "Stick it to the man itis". What does IE have... complete shell integration, 100% Windows penetration, hassle free updates, transparent usage to the uninformed computer user... and of course the full attention of a megaconglomerate multinational entity with endless supplies of cash, and a never ceasing hunger for total domination, no matter the cost. Example. The Xbox was (not sure if it's still the case) sold at way below cost when it debued. It continued that way, even seeing serious price cuts, matching Sony all the way. To what end? Many say that software sales, and accessories were the motivation... but I think it was much more cunning. I think that MS wants to lull us all in, slowly to the idea of Media centric computing, and further down the road that Bill has forseen. If you go down to your local video game shop, you'll see a little remote control being offered by microsoft that introduces new capabilities to the little unit. Media center XBox. I think that the xbox was just the most compelling way that MS could attach themselves to your TV. It's not so strange... just upgrade the thing, then we can watch the OC... it's on the hard drive... Xbox 2 will come in 3 different flavors... -sans hard drive, -with hard drive, options for sizes, -full media center (advertising and consumer research model) They've tried it before and failed... anyone remember webtv? see this article for references made by the great bill himself. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10..._tv_obsession/ Hate to be that guy, but MS will always win. Who would turn down the financial security MS would be sure to provide if you had a better idea, for the easy to put aside self indulgance of being right. Err.. right.. that's all way off topic. I guess lurking for so long does that to a post.

11-17-2004, 01:39 AM	#24 (permalink)
spade111 Upright	er... btw btw... I like and use firefox, and I install in on all my image sets at work. IE isn't really all that bad. I just like to have that feeling in the back of my head... like I'm doing something to slow them from owning my fingertips. As soon as Microsoft and Walmart merge... count me in for that wagon heading up to the mountains. My luck the horses will be MS branded... ev

11-17-2004, 02:08 AM	#25 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	Internet Explwhat? Really.. I use Firefox.. but anything that makes Microsoft pay more attention to things like security holes is good. While I doubt I'll ever go back to IE (especially since I run Linux...), I don't have anything against other people doing it..... as long as the product isn't such a security hole. Because IE is so integrated into WinWhatever, a lot of the bugs in 'IE' may be bugs in their shell in general... but they all get lumped into the IE category... I imagine if IE was so integrated there wouldn't be as many security holes. Anyways, I'm rambling.. point is.. I love FF.. but it's also good because it makes a safer product for people who don't use it.

11-17-2004, 07:04 PM	#27 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	I switched to Firefox tonite and love it. Much friendlier and faster than IE in my opinion. Besides, the fox is coolie looking! __________________ There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. Leon Trotsky

11-18-2004, 08:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
Akira Crazy	It's all about customizing your browser. Firefox extensions let you do so many things, and you end up with a broswer that fits you like a glove. __________________ -signature

11-18-2004, 10:18 PM	#31 (permalink)
The Magic Crazy Location: Reality	Firefox won't be a threat for one simple reason. People will just be too lazy to download it. That's pretty much the only reason I haven't got it. I mean, I even know Firefox would most likely be better than Internet Explorer, but Internet Explorer does everything I need just fine and I'm simply too lazy to go out and try to replace it.

11-19-2004, 06:31 AM	#32 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Firefox never will be a "threat." Let's pretend that every single PC user switches to Firefox. Then what? Everyone uses Firefox and not IE. It's not like Mozilla is developing an OS to end Microsoft. If no one uses IE it has literally no impact on Windows or Microsoft at all. -Lasereth __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

11-19-2004, 03:56 PM	#33 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Well, maybe I'll give it another shot. Thanks for the info! __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

11-19-2004, 06:24 PM	#34 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	I've been checking out Firefox since I first heard about it a good while back, and I am absolutely NOT going back to IE. I'm with Lasereth on how much of a "threat" it is to Microsoft, but whether it's a threat or not, I'm using it.

11-19-2004, 07:57 PM	#35 (permalink)
joeshoe Crazy Location: California	Har har, I bet they're really shaking in the silks. More likely they will simply copy Firefox in their next IE, and then hire an army of lawyers to suppress opposition.

11-19-2004, 09:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	They still haven't fixed the cursor problem. And, it's still not as fast as IE6. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

11-19-2004, 10:38 PM	#37 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I started using Firefox about three versions ago and never looked back. I've noticed some seriously speeding up over time with the browser. The plugins and tools are incredibly useful (Especially the BBCode and BugMeNot one...). Some peopel say it uses up a lot more system resources but I've yet to see that to be the case. Generally with IE I've got enough pop-ups and the like to crash my system, I've yet to have Firefox kill my computer. I've even started using Thunderbird for my e-mail expirience. I love it. Last edited by Gatorade Frost; 11-19-2004 at 10:41 PM..

11-27-2004, 11:06 AM	#38 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Any fix for the cursor problem? I've managed to "learn" how to see what's going on, but it drives me batty at times, still. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

11-28-2004, 04:49 AM	#39 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I heard Firefox was better - so I dl'd it. First site I log into wont load, because it tells me I need to dl flash player (by it always works on IE).. so I dl it, and Firefox closes itself, I have to start it again, go back, page loads, but through firefox none of my IE cookies seem to work so it doesnt remember my password... all my favorites are gone... I think I can import them... but the thing is... I might sound like a lazy ass, but I just want a browser that works easily and causes the minimum of problems. Whats so great about Firefox that makes it worth the effort of learning new software and so on when Ive been using IE for years now (I used to use Netscape, and I liked that better than IE, but the last two PC's Ive had just had IE alreayd loaded, so it was easier to use that than bother dl'ong something else) __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-28-2004, 07:30 AM	#40 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	During setup, it asks you if you want to import cookies, favorites, and all that stuff. You must have overlooked it. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.