Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Technology


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-15-2004, 12:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Singapore
Microsoft says Firefox not a threat to IE

I know there are various thread on this topic. But this is hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Here's the link

Quote:
Just days after the launch of open-source browser Firefox 1.0, Microsoft executives defended Internet Explorer, saying it is no less secure than any other browser and doesn't lack any important features.

At a security roundtable discussion in Sydney on Thursday, Ben English, Microsoft's security and management product manager, told attendees that IE undergoes "rigorous code reviews" and is no less secure than any other browser.

"Because IE is ubiquitous, you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," English said.

Steve Vamos, Microsoft Australia's managing director, agreed, saying he does not believe IE's market share is under attack following the recent high-profile debut of the Mozilla Foundation's Firefox browser.

Vamos said that although he has heard other people mention the competitive threat posed by Firefox, he doesn't see it as a problem.

"I'm not sure that that is the reality. I have seen comments around that, but there is nothing I can refer to that really supports that," he said. Instead, Vamos said, consumers need to be educated about all the features already offered by Microsoft's browser.

"We probably need to do a bit of work to communicate the features that are in IE," he said.

Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox, said there is a lot of hype surrounding the open-source movement and that if Microsoft's customers wanted new features, they would have told the company about it.

"I don't agree that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important," he said. "It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use.

"If there are features in our products that are subpar or need to be added, then I have great confidence that we are an organization that responds pretty quickly and effectively to that."

English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing are not important to IE users.

"I don't believe it is a true statement that IE doesn't have the features that our customers want," he said. "We take user feedback very seriously. If you have that feedback, then you should feed it back to us because we will feed it to the product team."

Ross Fowler, managing director of Cisco Systems Australia and New Zealand, said the networking giant uses IE internally but only after deploying Cisco's Secure Agent, which is a desktop utility that monitors all activity and alerts the user if it spots something unusual--such as a keystroke-logging program.

"Internally, we have deployed Cisco Secure Agent to prevent those day-zero attacks, and we have more and more of our customers--particularly in the university sector--deploying the Cisco Secure Agent," Fowler said.
The words in bold are hilarious.

Well firefox might not be a threat now, but it is certainly catching up. It wil force them to feed the feedback to the product team a lot faster.
Ydde is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 02:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Yeah, i'm using Firefox as I type. I like it a lot. We shall see how the giant does...
BoltedDown is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 03:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: RI
Pfft, not a threat...so various large media entities saying "switch to firefox or some other browser" is good news?
Fallon is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 05:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
Addict
 
sashime76's Avatar
 
Location: Hoosier State
I think that's kind of what Yahoo used to think of Google, so, do you Yahoo? or Google? MS/IE may be bundled with WinWhatever but FireFox will be the browser of choice.
sashime76 is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 05:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
I agree with the article. IE is underrated and FireFox is overrated. To each his own!

-Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 06:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
"Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox..." So, he's just talking out of his ass.

It is true, IE will continue to have a significant amount of market share for quite a while, because so many people don't even know what a browser is, and they think that their Yahoo homepage is the internet. But I think a lot of places were waiting for Firefox to reach 1.0, and now it is time to help our AOL-using mothers to make the switch.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 06:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
Addict
 
"I don't agree that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important," he said. "It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use."

Like the car industry and seatbelts, anti-lock braking...
WillyPete is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 06:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
Eh?
 
Stare At The Sun's Avatar
 
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Meh, I'm using firefox, and i'll never go back It is simply a better browser.
Stare At The Sun is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 10:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
“Wrong is right.”
 
aberkok's Avatar
 
Location: toronto
Why would people give feedback to Microsoft when they feel as though they won't be heard? Along comes Mozilla, with a way better browser, FOR FREE, with no strings attached! Firefox gave people a bunch of features they may not have known they needed, but that's fine because it's free.

People like Firefox because they hear about it from people they know and often trust, unlike IE, which is usually recommended by your system admin. at work or something. I feel very bitten in the @$$ often when using Microsoft stuff (because I wan't to use a PC and haven't made the jump to Linux yet). I find Firefox frees me from that.
__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."
aberkok is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 12:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Professional Loafer
 
bendsley's Avatar
 
Location: texas
I remember a time when Microsoft also said that Linux was not a threat to Windows.
__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."
bendsley is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 12:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Since when does Microsoft respond quickly to anything? Microshit knows that FF is a threat or the article would never have been written. I have yet to show anyone FF and they say.. "No thanks I like IE better"
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 01:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
Psycho
 
superiorrain's Avatar
 
Location: London
I've converted to Firefox and i plan to spread the word. Firefox will have a snowball effect which i hope Microsoft will legitimately try and stop it. It's about time that they stepped and be counted, it's about time that they sorted out all their problems. Healthy competition has never hurt anyone. Till that time long live Firefox and all other future reincarnation of it. I for one will be there everystep of the way.
__________________
"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible." - Arthur C. Clarke
superiorrain is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 03:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
Go faster!
 
DEI37's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.
__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
DEI37 is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 03:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEI37
I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.
The cursor bug was patched just before the 1.0 release, and there were several speed patches between 0.9 and 1.0. And there were many many UI improvements, starting after 0.8. It's worth another check, if you have a spare half-hour.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 04:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
Psycho
 
jonjon42's Avatar
 
Location: inside my own mind
DEI37
where you using .3?.... I remember problems with everything up to .5 (when it was still named pheonix but after that everything ran pretty smoothly..but I never used the windows version so I don't know if their was a big difference.
__________________
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....
jonjon42 is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 04:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Meechigan
I think a big thing that needs to happen for FF to be more widely accepted, is Manufacturers need to package it as an option on brand new computers. Most people look for the the thing on their desktop that says "Internet", and use that, not really caring what a browser is, and not knowing that their computer can easily be infected by adware, spyware, and the like. If someone like Dell installs that on all their computers, and maybe makes it the default browser, I think FF could really get a whole lot more market share.

Of course, who knows how MS would react to that.
killeena is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 04:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
Psycho
 
shadowalker's Avatar
 
Location: Firefox yourself and change the world!
Odd thing about firefox and IE is that IE seems to take up less system resources than FF does. IE on my system is using up ATM (7:45 PM) 11,823 K and FF is using up 28,450 K and the only thing open on both is Just TFproject. To each his own though, I hope firefox does give M$ a run for there money.
__________________
I'll make ya famous!
shadowalker is offline  
Old 11-15-2004, 05:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: RI
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowalker
Odd thing about firefox and IE is that IE seems to take up less system resources than FF does. IE on my system is using up ATM (7:45 PM) 11,823 K and FF is using up 28,450 K and the only thing open on both is Just TFproject. To each his own though, I hope firefox does give M$ a run for there money.
Reason being IE is tied into the OS, which is crap. If you took ie out of Win** then I bet they'd be running about the same.
Fallon is offline  
Old 11-16-2004, 11:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Wingless's Avatar
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA
While the numbers may show IE taking up less resources, when I installed Firefox on a machine yesterday, FF moved 10x faster than IE did before it. You can show me lots of numbers but when I'm doing my plain-old web browsing, those numbers won't really matter.
__________________
Tommy
Nibs is a funny word.
So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall...
You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you.

Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor
Wingless is offline  
Old 11-16-2004, 11:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
Awu
Upright
 
On my slow computer, Firefox opens faster for me and doesn't really lag as much as IE. I also like Firefox because you can tab windows so i can have 10 pages open under one window.
Awu is offline  
Old 11-16-2004, 11:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
Human
 
SecretMethod70's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEI37
I used FireFox once, and it was terrible. Much slower, less "nice," and the cursor always seemed to not be in just the right spot, and made me wonder where it was actually going to type. I won't ever use it again. BIggest thing was how slow it was.
Another thing to keep in mind is that pre-1.0 Firefox was technically not something intended for everyday use, unless of course you were planning to help with bug reporting. That's the significance of version numbering. 1.0 is technically the first version intended to be used by your every day user.
__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling
SecretMethod70 is offline  
Old 11-16-2004, 11:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
The Death Card
 
Ace_O_Spades's Avatar
 
Location: EH!?!?
I think a car commercial stated my opinion of this thread perfectly

"It's not more than you need... just more than you're used to"

Thats how i feel about Firefox's features over IE's features
__________________
Feh.
Ace_O_Spades is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 01:34 AM   #23 (permalink)
Upright
 
IE hmmm?

Microsoft's PR wagon can spin this any way they want. They have a lot up their sleeve's when it comes to media exposure.

Fact of the matter is, MS 'acknowledges' the existance of Firefox, and knows that over the last few months, IE market share has erroded. That's the first time in a long time, to any degree worth writing about, that IE has lost ground.

Is MS worried. I don't think worried is the right word. I fear that all we've done is to wake a sleeping giant. MS has always been pretty swift to unhinge any legitimate competition... But the most effective route, and something MS is extremely good at, has been to shift the consumer away from even needing the alternative. When you have unlimited resources, and a plan... you get the idea.

The money as far as MS is concerned is in the move towards a .net world, where everything is covered by the MS blanket. Will Firefox matter in the end if they have their way? I don't think it will have much impact. How is a refrigerator going to order new groceries. How is a mouse going to deliver advertising. How are your RF ID's going to get from the back of your hand to the central WalMart Database...

The only way MS will pay closer attention to Firefox, is if it threatens in some way their domination of the information integration market. As it sits, all that FireFox really has going for it, is a cleaner, faster, and friendlier feel than IE, an awesome support community, the cool factor, plus a side order of "Stick it to the man itis". What does IE have... complete shell integration, 100% Windows penetration, hassle free updates, transparent usage to the uninformed computer user... and of course the full attention of a megaconglomerate multinational entity with endless supplies of cash, and a never ceasing hunger for total domination, no matter the cost.

Example. The Xbox was (not sure if it's still the case) sold at way below cost when it debued. It continued that way, even seeing serious price cuts, matching Sony all the way. To what end? Many say that software sales, and accessories were the motivation... but I think it was much more cunning. I think that MS wants to lull us all in, slowly to the idea of Media centric computing, and further down the road that Bill has forseen. If you go down to your local video game shop, you'll see a little remote control being offered by microsoft that introduces new capabilities to the little unit. Media center XBox. I think that the xbox was just the most compelling way that MS could attach themselves to your TV. It's not so strange... just upgrade the thing, then we can watch the OC... it's on the hard drive...

Xbox 2 will come in 3 different flavors...

-sans hard drive,
-with hard drive, options for sizes,
-full media center (advertising and consumer research model)

They've tried it before and failed... anyone remember webtv?

see this article for references made by the great bill himself.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10..._tv_obsession/

Hate to be that guy, but MS will always win. Who would turn down the financial security MS would be sure to provide if you had a better idea, for the easy to put aside self indulgance of being right.


Err.. right.. that's all way off topic. I guess lurking for so long does that to a post.
spade111 is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 01:39 AM   #24 (permalink)
Upright
 
er... btw

btw... I like and use firefox, and I install in on all my image sets at work.

IE isn't really all that bad. I just like to have that feeling in the back of my head... like I'm doing something to slow them from owning my fingertips.

As soon as Microsoft and Walmart merge... count me in for that wagon heading up to the mountains. My luck the horses will be MS branded...



ev
spade111 is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 02:08 AM   #25 (permalink)
In Your Dreams
 
Latch's Avatar
 
Location: City of Lights
Internet Explwhat?

Really.. I use Firefox.. but anything that makes Microsoft pay more attention to things like security holes is good. While I doubt I'll ever go back to IE (especially since I run Linux...), I don't have anything against other people doing it..... as long as the product isn't such a security hole.

Because IE is so integrated into WinWhatever, a lot of the bugs in 'IE' may be bugs in their shell in general... but they all get lumped into the IE category... I imagine if IE was so integrated there wouldn't be as many security holes. Anyways, I'm rambling.. point is.. I love FF.. but it's also good because it makes a safer product for people who don't use it.
Latch is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 06:51 PM   #26 (permalink)
You're going to have to trust me!
 
MacGuyver's Avatar
 
Location: Massachusetts
Firefox is amazing, I am very happy with it. It is beating the piss out of IE, in my book.
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher
MacGuyver is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 07:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
*edited for content*
 
Irishsean's Avatar
 
Location: Austin, TX
I switched to Firefox tonite and love it. Much friendlier and faster than IE in my opinion. Besides, the fox is coolie looking!
__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky
Irishsean is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 07:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sixate's Avatar
 
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
I agree with the article. IE is underrated and FireFox is overrated. To each his own!

-Lasereth
I have to agree.

I've tried FF 7 or 8 times now, and I just hate it. Sorry people, but it is slower, and it uses a helluva lot more of my system resources than IE. Overrated piece of shit.... Period........
sixate is offline  
Old 11-17-2004, 07:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
*edited for content*
 
Irishsean's Avatar
 
Location: Austin, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixate
I have to agree.

I've tried FF 7 or 8 times now, and I just hate it. Sorry people, but it is slower, and it uses a helluva lot more of my system resources than IE. Overrated piece of shit.... Period........
TFP pages load easily twice as fast as they did in IE for me... maybe your configured wrong?
__________________
There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky
Irishsean is offline  
Old 11-18-2004, 08:18 PM   #30 (permalink)
Crazy
 
It's all about customizing your browser. Firefox extensions let you do so many things, and you end up with a broswer that fits you like a glove.
__________________
-signature
Akira is offline  
Old 11-18-2004, 10:18 PM   #31 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Reality
Firefox won't be a threat for one simple reason.

People will just be too lazy to download it. That's pretty much the only reason I haven't got it. I mean, I even know Firefox would most likely be better than Internet Explorer, but Internet Explorer does everything I need just fine and I'm simply too lazy to go out and try to replace it.
The Magic is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 06:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Firefox never will be a "threat." Let's pretend that every single PC user switches to Firefox. Then what? Everyone uses Firefox and not IE. It's not like Mozilla is developing an OS to end Microsoft. If no one uses IE it has literally no impact on Windows or Microsoft at all.

-Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 03:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
Go faster!
 
DEI37's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
Well, maybe I'll give it another shot. Thanks for the info!
__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
DEI37 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 06:24 PM   #34 (permalink)
Born-Again New Guy
 
TexanAvenger's Avatar
 
Location: Unfound.
I've been checking out Firefox since I first heard about it a good while back, and I am absolutely NOT going back to IE. I'm with Lasereth on how much of a "threat" it is to Microsoft, but whether it's a threat or not, I'm using it.
TexanAvenger is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: California
Har har, I bet they're really shaking in the silks. More likely they will simply copy Firefox in their next IE, and then hire an army of lawyers to suppress opposition.
joeshoe is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
Go faster!
 
DEI37's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
They still haven't fixed the cursor problem. And, it's still not as fast as IE6.
__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
DEI37 is offline  
Old 11-19-2004, 10:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
Rookie
 
Gatorade Frost's Avatar
 
I started using Firefox about three versions ago and never looked back. I've noticed some seriously speeding up over time with the browser. The plugins and tools are incredibly useful (Especially the BBCode and BugMeNot one...). Some peopel say it uses up a lot more system resources but I've yet to see that to be the case. Generally with IE I've got enough pop-ups and the like to crash my system, I've yet to have Firefox kill my computer.

I've even started using Thunderbird for my e-mail expirience. I love it.

Last edited by Gatorade Frost; 11-19-2004 at 10:41 PM..
Gatorade Frost is offline  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
Go faster!
 
DEI37's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
Any fix for the cursor problem? I've managed to "learn" how to see what's going on, but it drives me batty at times, still.
__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
DEI37 is offline  
Old 11-28-2004, 04:49 AM   #39 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I heard Firefox was better - so I dl'd it.

First site I log into wont load, because it tells me I need to dl flash player (by it always works on IE).. so I dl it, and Firefox closes itself, I have to start it again, go back, page loads, but through firefox none of my IE cookies seem to work so it doesnt remember my password... all my favorites are gone... I think I can import them... but the thing is... I might sound like a lazy ass, but I just want a browser that works easily and causes the minimum of problems. Whats so great about Firefox that makes it worth the effort of learning new software and so on when Ive been using IE for years now (I used to use Netscape, and I liked that better than IE, but the last two PC's Ive had just had IE alreayd loaded, so it was easier to use that than bother dl'ong something else)
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 11-28-2004, 07:30 AM   #40 (permalink)
Go faster!
 
DEI37's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
During setup, it asks you if you want to import cookies, favorites, and all that stuff. You must have overlooked it.
__________________
Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
DEI37 is offline  
 

Tags
firefox, microsoft, threat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:19 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360