Threatening letter from Business Software Alliance - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Nad Adam · 05-20-2003, 01:11 AM

Recived my first threatening letter saying that some organistion that secures the intrests of software companies had found me sharing Adobe Photoshop 7, Office XP Professional, Norton Ghost and Antivirus on my computer. They obviously just downloaded my filelist since my upload is capped at 6kb/s. I'm not particularly worried about this but what are your thoughts on the subject?

Frowning Budah · 05-20-2003, 02:45 AM

Pretty scary that someone is scanning your computer. What other kind of information are they gathering?

BoCo · 05-20-2003, 05:02 AM

Deny, deny, deny.

Peetster · 05-20-2003, 05:15 AM

Block TCP and UDP ports 135 and 138. I think that's the protocol they are using to scan your computer.

Ratman · 05-20-2003, 05:19 AM

These guys are actually pretty serious, though yours is the first time I've heard them going after P2P sharing. I come from the land of Microsoft, and usually they just go after businesses that buy a single user app (and therefore a single user license), then load the software onto 20 or 30 machines at the office. They are kind of like bounty hunters. People in the Seattle area usually pay attention when they get a letter from these guys, and they even advertise on the radio for disgruntled ex- employees of license abusers to turn in their old company.

Bottm line, it's a legitimate and serious organization, but I don't know how hard they could hit you.

hrdwareguy · 05-20-2003, 06:01 AM

The penalties of software pirating or sharing are pretty steep. My advice, correct the problem and quick.

Nad Adam · 05-20-2003, 06:05 AM

My guess is that since I'm using DC++ and have these files shared they appear in the filelist that my client sends to the servers that I'm connected to. (Still think that I will block 135&138 though).

Since I'm living in Sweden and not using the programs as a professional I'm not verry frightend of what legal thing they can do to me. The worst case scenario would be them getting my ISP to shut down my connection and in that case they would be doing me a favour (overpriced ADSL that takes up to much of my time). The RIAA tried to send bills with amount from 100€ - 10000€ to film and musicsharers in denmark but they never took the people who didn't pay to court, my guess is that they didn't want to risk losing.

hrdwareguy · 05-20-2003, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
My guess is that since I'm using DC++ and have these files shared they appear in the filelist that my client sends to the servers that I'm connected to. (Still think that I will block 135&138 though).

Since I'm living in Sweden and not using the programs as a professional I'm not verry frightend of what legal thing they can do to me. The worst case scenario would be them getting my ISP to shut down my connection and in that case they would be doing me a favour (overpriced ADSL that takes up to much of my time). The RIAA tried to send bills with amount from 100€ - 10000€ to film and musicsharers in denmark but they never took the people who didn't pay to court, my guess is that they didn't want to risk losing.

Actually, worst case scenario is they come in, arrest you, fine you, confiscate your equipment and file an injunction against you preventing you from owning their software ever,ever again.

Nad Adam · 05-20-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hrdwareguy
Actually, worst case scenario is they come in, arrest you, fine you, confiscate your equipment and file an injunction against you preventing you from owning their software ever,ever again.

But to do that wouldn't they have to prove some sort of crime has been commited. I haven't been making money by using their programs or by selling copies of them.

A thing like you mention has to my knoledge never happend in Sweden. Is it common in the US or elsewhere?

rubicon · 05-20-2003, 10:05 AM

I used to work for a company that had many a disgruntled employee. Better said, immature ex-employees. At one point we got a letter from the BSA stating they received information from a "third-party" that we might have illegally licensed software.

The company I worked for _was_ improperly overextending their licenses and didn't have the money to buy all of the needed copies. We inventoried what we had and waited to see what would happen. The BSA letter indicated they could perform an audit at any time and make us comply with proper licensing.

We waited and nothing ever happened. The company I worked for eventually closed down. That was two years after the letter.

digby · 05-20-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

But to do that wouldn't they have to prove some sort of crime has been commited. I haven't been making money by using their programs or by selling copies of them.

A thing like you mention has to my knoledge never happend in Sweden. Is it common in the US or elsewhere?

Actually, it doens't matter if you make money or not. According to international copyright law as set by (I believe) the Berne convention (which every major nation on Earth is signed to) one of the exclusicve rights of copyright holders is to distribute their work. Even if you don't make money, you are still distributing, and they can do some nasty stuff to you, some of which has been mentioned above. If you want to know more, I'll try and find my old copyright book.

Nad Adam · 05-20-2003, 12:58 PM

But it is still legal to make a tape copy of a cd and give it to a friend, isn't that distributing?

hrdwareguy · 05-20-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
But it is still legal to make a tape copy of a cd and give it to a friend, isn't that distributing?

Music has different copywright laws than software does.

If I remember correctly, with music, you cannot make a profit on it.

But with software, you are not purchasing the software, you are purchasing a license to use the software on X number of machines. (where X is usually 1). The license does not give you the right to make copies for your friends, usually it does say you can make a copy for backup purposes only. If you install the software on multiple machines that you personally own, you are still in violation of the license agreement which was for one machine but you haven't distributed anything.

The dave · 05-20-2003, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
Recived my first threatening letter saying that some organistion that secures the intrests of software companies had found me sharing Adobe Photoshop 7, Office XP Professional, Norton Ghost and Antivirus on my computer. They obviously just downloaded my filelist since my upload is capped at 6kb/s. I'm not particularly worried about this but what are your thoughts on the subject?

i also got a e-mail from people about software and mp3s

lets just say i stoped any and all P2P, and i gonna for a long while

nad that also makes us offical pirates

Spungfoo · 05-20-2003, 05:39 PM

I'm not sure what to make of this. As of right now I believe it's just a bunch of scare tatics, when I start reading about how joe schmoe kazaa lite user is getting sued that's when I'll start to worry. Even then, They are probably only going to bust a few people just to make "examples" out of them, I really don't think it'd be feasible for them to sue every one or even most of the 3 million+ Kazaa users. We outnumber them, they'll give up eventually - maybe not within the next 5-10 years or so, but eventually

poof · 05-20-2003, 07:55 PM

I recieved the same letters. I called the 800 number on the letter, the one citing Adobe et all.
I told them I was tired of being accused as a thief. I threathened them with an harrasment suit unless they leave me alone.

I told the contact person that I was not a business, did not steal software, and was tired of the insinuating letters, and would not tolerate any more.

The contact took my street address, I have not been bothered since.

BTW, I asked where he got my address. He said they got their information from magazine subscription lists. So, whether you have a computer or no, you will get the hateful letter from SBS, ( or whatever they call themselves).

Just tell them to kiss your arse, after giving them the address to leave you alone.

I have not had a problem since.

digby · 05-21-2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nad Adam
But it is still legal to make a tape copy of a cd and give it to a friend, isn't that distributing?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Music has different copywright laws than software does.

If I remember correctly, with music, you cannot make a profit on it.

But with software, you are not purchasing the software, you are purchasing a license to use the software on X number of machines. (where X is usually 1). The license does not give you the right to make copies for your friends, usually it does say you can make a copy for backup purposes only. If you install the software on multiple machines that you personally own, you are still in violation of the license agreement which was for one machine but you haven't distributed anything.

Sound recordings and software are protected by the same copyright laws. Copyright holders of either have the same rights protected with the exception of the 6th right to digitally transmit in the case of sound recordings. (this was pushed for by RIAA lobyists to stop internet radio in it's infancy)

Making a tape copy of a cd for a friend violates several rights of copyright:

1. The exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work.
2. The exclusive right to distributed the copyrighted work.

And actually, since a CD has two different copyrights (1 for the actual composition and 1 for the recording thereof) you are violating (C) law 4 times with this. Under the homerecording act of (I believe) 1998, you have the right to make for your own usage a backup copy of anything that you own (legally, of course). You cannot give this away, and you cannot sell it. You cannot make this copy and then sell the origianl without either also transfering the copy or destroying it.

I think that this should answer your question. Ask if you want to know anything else. If I ever find my legal book, I'll start citing court cases and the actual statutes.

Nad Adam · 05-21-2003, 02:40 PM

Does this mean that I can put 'Certified Cyberbandit' on my business card?

yotta · 05-21-2003, 09:54 PM

I'd personaly tell them to go fuck themselves.

stankybcn1 · 05-21-2003, 11:16 PM

I'll second that especially due to the fact that you live in sweden.

TwoToTango · 05-22-2003, 07:08 AM

digby's reply is correct. It's so refreshing
to see someone post about copyrights
that actually knows something. (It's especially
tedious to read the oft-repeated bleat "I
wasn't doing it for profit, so it must be ok."
The law doesn't care whether or not
you're a successful infringer.)

As to the original poster: try buying the
software you use, and don't allow others
to copy it. Those of us who feed our families
with income derived from intellectual
property are going to have a hard time feeling
sorry for how inconvenienced you feel.

digby · 05-22-2003, 01:10 PM

hehe... I knows me some copyright reeeeel good like.

I've had classes in school on copyright and other legal aspects of the music industry (recording contracts, etc.) It comes in handy at the most surprising times it seems. In the last week, I've had a half dozen different people ask me stuff, so I had to pull out the books. It's all still nice and fresh right now.

[edit]can you say run-on sentance?[/edit]

Frowning Budah · 05-22-2003, 07:50 PM

poof I am confused. Did you have the pirated software they accused you of having or were they guessing or what?

poof · 05-22-2003, 08:44 PM

<i>Frowning</i>, The letters just started coming. I have no pirated software, the only Adobe I have came with my Canon scanner.

After throwing the envelopes into the trash for weeks. I called the 800 number. I was disgusted and angry at the accusations.

I demanded the accusations and threats cease immediatly. I asked the person on the phone where they got my address. That was when he said they got the addresses from magazine subscriptions.

They don't even know if you own a computer. After our discussion,I have received no more letters.

BTW, I have licenses for ALL my applications, and OS'.

OK, one more thing. All the threats came via snail mail. It was just a ploy perpetrated upon magazine subscribers and it cost them mucho dinero in postage.

Nad Adam · 06-01-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwoToTango
digby's reply is correct. It's so refreshing
to see someone post about copyrights
that actually knows something. (It's especially
tedious to read the oft-repeated bleat "I
wasn't doing it for profit, so it must be ok."
The law doesn't care whether or not
you're a successful infringer.)

As to the original poster: try buying the
software you use, and don't allow others
to copy it. Those of us who feed our families
with income derived from intellectual
property are going to have a hard time feeling
sorry for how inconvenienced you feel.

Hey, I'm not feeling inconvenienced at all, if they want to cut of my bandwidth or go after me legaly then so be it, I'd like to see them with some hard evidence. I know there's no chance can have a copy of what i shared on the net since it would take them days to download it. Anyway, I know that what I'm doing is even in my eyes moraly wrong but I just don't care, if there's a hell that's where I'm going, until then I'm gonna take yottas advice and ask my ISP to fuck off if they ever give me this shit again. There's way cheaper, faster and more discreet ISP's in Sweden and they know it.

loxor · 10-10-2003, 09:33 PM

I got a letter that was saying that i was sharing a movie over something called bit torrent . It just said stop immedetly or they will remove it... im assuming that this is just a C&D letter.... the one u got could juse be the same.

05-20-2003, 01:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	Threatening letter from Business Software Alliance Recived my first threatening letter saying that some organistion that secures the intrests of software companies had found me sharing Adobe Photoshop 7, Office XP Professional, Norton Ghost and Antivirus on my computer. They obviously just downloaded my filelist since my upload is capped at 6kb/s. I'm not particularly worried about this but what are your thoughts on the subject? __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

05-20-2003, 05:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	Deny, deny, deny. __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

05-20-2003, 05:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ratman Addict Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...	These guys are actually pretty serious, though yours is the first time I've heard them going after P2P sharing. I come from the land of Microsoft, and usually they just go after businesses that buy a single user app (and therefore a single user license), then load the software onto 20 or 30 machines at the office. They are kind of like bounty hunters. People in the Seattle area usually pay attention when they get a letter from these guys, and they even advertise on the radio for disgruntled ex- employees of license abusers to turn in their old company. Bottm line, it's a legitimate and serious organization, but I don't know how hard they could hit you. __________________ The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference. "God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

05-20-2003, 06:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
hrdwareguy "Officer, I was in fear for my life" Location: Oklahoma City	The penalties of software pirating or sharing are pretty steep. My advice, correct the problem and quick. __________________ Gun Control is hitting what you aim at Aim for the TFP, Donate Today

05-20-2003, 06:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	My guess is that since I'm using DC++ and have these files shared they appear in the filelist that my client sends to the servers that I'm connected to. (Still think that I will block 135&138 though). Since I'm living in Sweden and not using the programs as a professional I'm not verry frightend of what legal thing they can do to me. The worst case scenario would be them getting my ISP to shut down my connection and in that case they would be doing me a favour (overpriced ADSL that takes up to much of my time). The RIAA tried to send bills with amount from 100€ - 10000€ to film and musicsharers in denmark but they never took the people who didn't pay to court, my guess is that they didn't want to risk losing. __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

05-20-2003, 02:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	Pretty scary that someone is scanning your computer. What other kind of information are they gathering?

05-20-2003, 05:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	Block TCP and UDP ports 135 and 138. I think that's the protocol they are using to scan your computer.

05-20-2003, 10:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
rubicon Stop. Think. Question. Location: Redondo Beach, CA	I used to work for a company that had many a disgruntled employee. Better said, immature ex-employees. At one point we got a letter from the BSA stating they received information from a "third-party" that we might have illegally licensed software. The company I worked for _was_ improperly overextending their licenses and didn't have the money to buy all of the needed copies. We inventoried what we had and waited to see what would happen. The BSA letter indicated they could perform an audit at any time and make us comply with proper licensing. We waited and nothing ever happened. The company I worked for eventually closed down. That was two years after the letter. __________________ How you do anything is how you do everything.

05-20-2003, 12:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	But it is still legal to make a tape copy of a cd and give it to a friend, isn't that distributing? __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

05-20-2003, 05:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Spungfoo Insane Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I'm not sure what to make of this. As of right now I believe it's just a bunch of scare tatics, when I start reading about how joe schmoe kazaa lite user is getting sued that's when I'll start to worry. Even then, They are probably only going to bust a few people just to make "examples" out of them, I really don't think it'd be feasible for them to sue every one or even most of the 3 million+ Kazaa users. We outnumber them, they'll give up eventually - maybe not within the next 5-10 years or so, but eventually

05-20-2003, 07:55 PM	#16 (permalink)
poof Psycho	I recieved the same letters. I called the 800 number on the letter, the one citing Adobe et all. I told them I was tired of being accused as a thief. I threathened them with an harrasment suit unless they leave me alone. I told the contact person that I was not a business, did not steal software, and was tired of the insinuating letters, and would not tolerate any more. The contact took my street address, I have not been bothered since. BTW, I asked where he got my address. He said they got their information from magazine subscription lists. So, whether you have a computer or no, you will get the hateful letter from SBS, ( or whatever they call themselves). Just tell them to kiss your arse, after giving them the address to leave you alone. I have not had a problem since. Last edited by poof; 05-20-2003 at 08:14 PM..

05-21-2003, 02:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	Does this mean that I can put 'Certified Cyberbandit' on my business card? __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

05-21-2003, 09:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
yotta Irresponsible	I'd personaly tell them to go fuck themselves. __________________ I am Jack's signature.

05-21-2003, 11:16 PM	#20 (permalink)
stankybcn1 Junkie	I'll second that especially due to the fact that you live in sweden. __________________ I'll Throw You!

05-22-2003, 07:08 AM	#21 (permalink)
TwoToTango Psycho	digby's reply is correct. It's so refreshing to see someone post about copyrights that actually knows something. (It's especially tedious to read the oft-repeated bleat "I wasn't doing it for profit, so it must be ok." The law doesn't care whether or not you're a successful infringer.) As to the original poster: try buying the software you use, and don't allow others to copy it. Those of us who feed our families with income derived from intellectual property are going to have a hard time feeling sorry for how inconvenienced you feel.

05-22-2003, 01:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
digby Crazy Location: Ahh, the lovely South	hehe... I knows me some copyright reeeeel good like. I've had classes in school on copyright and other legal aspects of the music industry (recording contracts, etc.) It comes in handy at the most surprising times it seems. In the last week, I've had a half dozen different people ask me stuff, so I had to pull out the books. It's all still nice and fresh right now. [edit]can you say run-on sentance?[/edit] __________________ mmmm.... pudding

05-22-2003, 07:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	poof I am confused. Did you have the pirated software they accused you of having or were they guessing or what?

05-22-2003, 08:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
poof Psycho	<i>Frowning</i>, The letters just started coming. I have no pirated software, the only Adobe I have came with my Canon scanner. After throwing the envelopes into the trash for weeks. I called the 800 number. I was disgusted and angry at the accusations. I demanded the accusations and threats cease immediatly. I asked the person on the phone where they got my address. That was when he said they got the addresses from magazine subscriptions. They don't even know if you own a computer. After our discussion,I have received no more letters. BTW, I have licenses for ALL my applications, and OS'. OK, one more thing. All the threats came via snail mail. It was just a ploy perpetrated upon magazine subscribers and it cost them mucho dinero in postage. Last edited by poof; 05-22-2003 at 08:49 PM..

10-10-2003, 09:33 PM	#26 (permalink)
loxor Upright Location: Kalamazoo . Mi	I got a letter that was saying that i was sharing a movie over something called bit torrent . It just said stop immedetly or they will remove it... im assuming that this is just a C&D letter.... the one u got could juse be the same.