Why do people feel strongly about their chosen computer platform? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Twizted · 10-07-2004, 07:02 PM

Hey all - newbie here...

Something that I've been pondering over the last few months is why people get so tied to one computer platform. If you browse the Mac platforms, it's like they are adament that anything non-Mac sucks (and don't mention MS). And usually, they are very vocal about it too.

PC boards don't seem to loom on the whole Mac thing, but can get pretty opinionated about Mac's as well.

Then there is the Windows vs. Linux vs. Unix vs. OSX debate

Now my question isn't about any of the above topics, but instead WHY do people get spun up about them? I'll preface my opinion by saying I work for MS, but in the IT department (not products) however it may still make me a bit biased. That said, I have 4 PC's and a Mac laptop at home. I have used Linux in the past, but not to any great extent. I enjoy all of the OS's I've tried, and I think they each have a market. I know Windows isn't the *perfect* OS, then again, neither is OSX or Linux or Unix. They are all have pluses and minuses.

In my opinion, I think it's great that Linux is gaining popularity. I think it's great that OS X is a out there (as I said, I have a Powerbook) But even if I was die hard MS, OS X and Linux still are beneficial to me. They force MS to improve their product. I think the same rings true if you are in any of the other camps. Competition is great. Plus, IMO, Variety is essential. It would be BORING if every machine ran one OS.

Then in the PC vs Mac debate (hardware, not OS) again, there are strong points to each side. And again, variety benefits all. It means I have a choice. Some people are price focused, some are interested in the aesthetics.

I can see why you would be enthusiastic about a platform or OS you enjoy but can someone help me understand WHY people are so AGAINST one OS or platform?

Jason

Jimellow · 10-07-2004, 07:14 PM

I think generally people either accept or oppose things that are different than what they're used to, and it's pretty common to bash an opposing product..

Also, sometimes it seems like the cool thing to do, so people jump on the bashing bandwagon regardless of their true feelings.

I have always used MS and Windows based PCs, and my friends did too. They often bashed Apple/MacIntos, but after using one myself a few times, I think they are pretty neat; and definitely a nice change from the Windows environment.

My take on it is that people get used to what they have, and if something new or different arrives, they tend to either accept it and check it out, or ignore it and possibly oppose it, regardless of whether their opposition is valid. I think much of the opposition to "competeting" products is unfounded, and done instead just because the user finds it easier to mindlessly bash than to actually try or research the competeting product.

People like to think that they are using the ideal product. Therefore, any product that exists, but isn't used by them, is inferior and subject to being bashed, regardless of the real facts and data.

It's a lot easier to take an opposing view and be ignorant than it is to try something new, do some research, and become informed before making an intellegent and valid decision.

madcow · 10-07-2004, 07:24 PM

People invest a lot of time, money and effort into their PCs. It's only natural that they defend their chosen platform to justify all those resources that they've put into it.

Twizted · 10-07-2004, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcow

People invest a lot of time, money and effort into their PCs. It's only natural that they defend their chosen platform to justify all those resources that they've put into it.

I can see defending your choice. if you are defending it that would imply someone's attacked it. I don't understand why people need to attack something they most likely don't (or haven't ever) used...

I think Jimellow is on to something though... I think it's a bandwagon thing... It still perplexes me...

nothingx · 10-07-2004, 08:02 PM

This reminds me of a hilarious story about an elderly woman I know. She works for a newspaper and in their offices they've always been provided Macs. She's always used them now refuses to use anything other than a Mac. One day she asks me to take a look at a probelm she has getting a dailup connection to work. Fortunately, I was able to figure it out even though I'm a Unix/Windows guy, but anyway... I say something to her like, if you would just get a wintel box, all kinds of people would be able to help you whenever you have a computer problem since that's what the majority of people use these days. Of course she refuses to switch because "nothing is as good as her Mac." I get talking to her about what she actually uses it for, and there are three main things... 1) Microsoft Internet Explorer 2) Microsoft Office 3) Playing solitare. WTF!? Anyway, I don't really have the heart to tell her she's just using dumbed-down ported versions of the real thing. She's convinced that Macs are the only computers she'll ever use, and nothing is going to change that anytime soon.

Willravel · 10-07-2004, 08:35 PM

It's funny to see the bias seep out in a conversation about why people have bias. I love Macs and I love Windows. They each have their respective strengths and weaknesses. I think that people get swept up in the battle so much that they have trouble seeing the other side clearly. People love to have something to believe in and also to have it's antithesis. What is a good guy without the bad guy to be better than? This is a simple tactic put fourth by marketing everywhere. Macs say 'switch', Windows says 'we have more software than Macs'. To what end? To control their loyal consumer bases. And people eat it up. A lot of Windows people swear that building a Mac computer is impossible. A lot of Mac people say that Windows always crashes. Both of these are lies. The same thing is true of most everything. Who do you favor in the presidential election? Whoever it is has lied to you about his adversary. You can be a puppet, or you can think for yourself.
IMO

tropple · 10-08-2004, 03:38 AM

It's a holy war thing.

You probably aren't old enough to remember the fantastic flamewars of PDP vs IBM, Commodore vs Atari, Amiga vs Atari ST, Apple or TRS-80 vs Everyone else.

It's the same thing that fuels the Chevy vs Ford battles or the .45 ACP vs 9mm for building entry.

People react so strongly because giving any ground is an admission that they lacked judgement and went down the wrong path. Essentially, it is meaningless, but it is human nature. Everyone has a favorite and wants everyone else to agree, thereby endorsing their intelligence.

Twizted · 10-08-2004, 09:57 AM

Interesting points everyone... I'll have to keep them in mind next time the MacPB discussion list I am on spins off into one of it's Anti-Anything-not-Mac threads...

It's just kind of a downer having to sift through immature posts to get to meaningful tech talk.

Ahh well...

sushiboy · 10-08-2004, 11:56 AM

I liken it to the ford vs. chevy type mentality.
Is one really better than the other?

filtherton · 10-08-2004, 12:23 PM

I think it is because people self-identify with their computer. If someone takes the time to define themselves as a mac user, than it is only natural for them to defend themselves when they feel insecure. It's not because one is actually inherently better. People do the same thing with musicians.

catback · 10-08-2004, 03:25 PM

I think people feel strongly about their computer of choice for the same reason they feel strongly for any of their choices. They made the choice based on preference and other factors and they believe it was the best choice. If they did not believe strongly that their choice was the best then they would not have made it.

Twizted · 10-08-2004, 04:54 PM

So I chose my Toyota pick-up because I think it was the best truck for my needs, however I don't spout off about how screwed up Ford Ranger\Chevy Colorado etc... is. I can see if someone questioned my decision (said Jason, man Toyota's suck) then I would defend my decision. But I see people, unprompted, thrashing other products.

I guess I understand what's happening, but I guess I'll never really understand why or what they think they will accomplish. <shrugs>

Thanks for putting up with my ramblings...

mjw · 10-08-2004, 06:04 PM

Well you just dropped X thousands (or hundreds in some PC cases), so naturally you get defensive about your decisions. The vast majority of the critasizm between platforms is not constructive, and thus is a direct attack on that person. it's kinda natural.

Sorry for spelling tonight everyone......just ignore it

jonjon42 · 10-10-2004, 08:33 AM

even inside some communities their is fighting. Look at the linux community distro fanboys are everywhere usually giving their choosen distro a bad name.

belkins · 10-10-2004, 04:28 PM

Mac users are fanatics (said in a good way)!

I use a PC but don't insult a Mac to a Mac user!

thefictionweliv · 10-10-2004, 06:35 PM

One of the primary reasons I would never buy a Mac is its like buying a car with the hood welded shut and the stereo planted behind the odometer. But I also don't go wonder around with IBM and Microsoft T-Shirts on. But holywars like this extend to anywhere. A PC and a Mac user might both be digital artists convinced that theirs is the best medium, they love their work and want to spread that to others. If people think somethings is the greatest thing they spread it around talk about it, the way people defend their favorite bands. At least its not like Republicans and Democrats that sound like they want to take 10 paces and draw most of the times. Debates about PC vs Mac is often just amusing. Example

:

jonjon42 · 10-11-2004, 04:22 PM

props for the ctrl+alt+delete reference

billege · 10-11-2004, 10:50 PM

When someone buys a computer (I guess I'm talking about people that have to consider a 'puter as a semi-to-major purchase. There are some people that don't give two shits as long as the paid help makes the box do what they want, and I guess this wouldn't apply to them.) they are making an investment. They are also making a fairly complicated purchase decision. There are many options to weigh when buying a computer.

People tend to see it as, "I'm placing my judgement against yours." I think, because man is a competative animal, and he's a social one.

It's in our self interest to join the pack that made the same choice, or similar choice. Together there is strength. The other pack made another choice. To accept it as valid requires a lot of confidence in one's OWN choice. Not everyone has that, you know?

You get "mine is bigger" arguments when enough self-doubting people feel the need to try and convince someone who doesn't think the same way to agree with them. Which is silly. Wintel and Mac folks are always arguing theirs is better, and they usually don't wake up and say "What a fool I've been, you're right!" Neither do Intel fanboys listen to an AMD fanboy and suddenly trade their Xbox for a PS2, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

"I bought this computer" is the same as "I made this choice." It's up to your level of self assurance to decicde how much you need to defend that.

10-07-2004, 07:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Twizted Insane Location: Washington State	Why do people feel strongly about their chosen computer platform? Hey all - newbie here... Something that I've been pondering over the last few months is why people get so tied to one computer platform. If you browse the Mac platforms, it's like they are adament that anything non-Mac sucks (and don't mention MS). And usually, they are very vocal about it too. PC boards don't seem to loom on the whole Mac thing, but can get pretty opinionated about Mac's as well. Then there is the Windows vs. Linux vs. Unix vs. OSX debate Now my question isn't about any of the above topics, but instead WHY do people get spun up about them? I'll preface my opinion by saying I work for MS, but in the IT department (not products) however it may still make me a bit biased. That said, I have 4 PC's and a Mac laptop at home. I have used Linux in the past, but not to any great extent. I enjoy all of the OS's I've tried, and I think they each have a market. I know Windows isn't the perfect OS, then again, neither is OSX or Linux or Unix. They are all have pluses and minuses. In my opinion, I think it's great that Linux is gaining popularity. I think it's great that OS X is a out there (as I said, I have a Powerbook) But even if I was die hard MS, OS X and Linux still are beneficial to me. They force MS to improve their product. I think the same rings true if you are in any of the other camps. Competition is great. Plus, IMO, Variety is essential. It would be BORING if every machine ran one OS. Then in the PC vs Mac debate (hardware, not OS) again, there are strong points to each side. And again, variety benefits all. It means I have a choice. Some people are price focused, some are interested in the aesthetics. I can see why you would be enthusiastic about a platform or OS you enjoy but can someone help me understand WHY people are so AGAINST one OS or platform? Jason __________________ A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. -- Emo Philips

10-08-2004, 03:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	It's a holy war thing. You probably aren't old enough to remember the fantastic flamewars of PDP vs IBM, Commodore vs Atari, Amiga vs Atari ST, Apple or TRS-80 vs Everyone else. It's the same thing that fuels the Chevy vs Ford battles or the .45 ACP vs 9mm for building entry. People react so strongly because giving any ground is an admission that they lacked judgement and went down the wrong path. Essentially, it is meaningless, but it is human nature. Everyone has a favorite and wants everyone else to agree, thereby endorsing their intelligence. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

10-08-2004, 09:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
Twizted Insane Location: Washington State	Interesting points everyone... I'll have to keep them in mind next time the MacPB discussion list I am on spins off into one of it's Anti-Anything-not-Mac threads... It's just kind of a downer having to sift through immature posts to get to meaningful tech talk. Ahh well... __________________ A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. -- Emo Philips

10-08-2004, 11:56 AM	#9 (permalink)
sushiboy Tilted Location: In Obama's neighborhood	I liken it to the ford vs. chevy type mentality. Is one really better than the other? __________________ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GO d++ s--:+ a- C+ U--- P-- L- E-- W++ N- o-- K- w O- M+ PS PE++ PGP- t- 5-- X R- tv+ b- DI+ D+ G e* h---- r+++ y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

10-08-2004, 04:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Twizted Insane Location: Washington State	So I chose my Toyota pick-up because I think it was the best truck for my needs, however I don't spout off about how screwed up Ford Ranger\Chevy Colorado etc... is. I can see if someone questioned my decision (said Jason, man Toyota's suck) then I would defend my decision. But I see people, unprompted, thrashing other products. I guess I understand what's happening, but I guess I'll never really understand why or what they think they will accomplish. <shrugs> Thanks for putting up with my ramblings... __________________ A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. -- Emo Philips

10-07-2004, 07:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jimellow Junkie	I think generally people either accept or oppose things that are different than what they're used to, and it's pretty common to bash an opposing product.. Also, sometimes it seems like the cool thing to do, so people jump on the bashing bandwagon regardless of their true feelings. I have always used MS and Windows based PCs, and my friends did too. They often bashed Apple/MacIntos, but after using one myself a few times, I think they are pretty neat; and definitely a nice change from the Windows environment. My take on it is that people get used to what they have, and if something new or different arrives, they tend to either accept it and check it out, or ignore it and possibly oppose it, regardless of whether their opposition is valid. I think much of the opposition to "competeting" products is unfounded, and done instead just because the user finds it easier to mindlessly bash than to actually try or research the competeting product. People like to think that they are using the ideal product. Therefore, any product that exists, but isn't used by them, is inferior and subject to being bashed, regardless of the real facts and data. It's a lot easier to take an opposing view and be ignorant than it is to try something new, do some research, and become informed before making an intellegent and valid decision.

10-07-2004, 07:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
madcow Crazy Location: The state of denial	People invest a lot of time, money and effort into their PCs. It's only natural that they defend their chosen platform to justify all those resources that they've put into it.

10-07-2004, 08:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
nothingx undead Location: nihilistic freedom	This reminds me of a hilarious story about an elderly woman I know. She works for a newspaper and in their offices they've always been provided Macs. She's always used them now refuses to use anything other than a Mac. One day she asks me to take a look at a probelm she has getting a dailup connection to work. Fortunately, I was able to figure it out even though I'm a Unix/Windows guy, but anyway... I say something to her like, if you would just get a wintel box, all kinds of people would be able to help you whenever you have a computer problem since that's what the majority of people use these days. Of course she refuses to switch because "nothing is as good as her Mac." I get talking to her about what she actually uses it for, and there are three main things... 1) Microsoft Internet Explorer 2) Microsoft Office 3) Playing solitare. WTF!? Anyway, I don't really have the heart to tell her she's just using dumbed-down ported versions of the real thing. She's convinced that Macs are the only computers she'll ever use, and nothing is going to change that anytime soon.

10-07-2004, 08:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	It's funny to see the bias seep out in a conversation about why people have bias. I love Macs and I love Windows. They each have their respective strengths and weaknesses. I think that people get swept up in the battle so much that they have trouble seeing the other side clearly. People love to have something to believe in and also to have it's antithesis. What is a good guy without the bad guy to be better than? This is a simple tactic put fourth by marketing everywhere. Macs say 'switch', Windows says 'we have more software than Macs'. To what end? To control their loyal consumer bases. And people eat it up. A lot of Windows people swear that building a Mac computer is impossible. A lot of Mac people say that Windows always crashes. Both of these are lies. The same thing is true of most everything. Who do you favor in the presidential election? Whoever it is has lied to you about his adversary. You can be a puppet, or you can think for yourself. IMO

10-08-2004, 12:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think it is because people self-identify with their computer. If someone takes the time to define themselves as a mac user, than it is only natural for them to defend themselves when they feel insecure. It's not because one is actually inherently better. People do the same thing with musicians.

10-08-2004, 03:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
catback Psycho Location: North America	I think people feel strongly about their computer of choice for the same reason they feel strongly for any of their choices. They made the choice based on preference and other factors and they believe it was the best choice. If they did not believe strongly that their choice was the best then they would not have made it.

10-08-2004, 06:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
mjw Upright	Well you just dropped X thousands (or hundreds in some PC cases), so naturally you get defensive about your decisions. The vast majority of the critasizm between platforms is not constructive, and thus is a direct attack on that person. it's kinda natural. Sorry for spelling tonight everyone......just ignore it __________________ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

10-10-2004, 08:33 AM	#14 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	even inside some communities their is fighting. Look at the linux community distro fanboys are everywhere usually giving their choosen distro a bad name.

10-10-2004, 04:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
belkins Tilted Location: Salt Lake City	Mac users are fanatics (said in a good way)! I use a PC but don't insult a Mac to a Mac user!

10-10-2004, 06:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
thefictionweliv Insane	One of the primary reasons I would never buy a Mac is its like buying a car with the hood welded shut and the stereo planted behind the odometer. But I also don't go wonder around with IBM and Microsoft T-Shirts on. But holywars like this extend to anywhere. A PC and a Mac user might both be digital artists convinced that theirs is the best medium, they love their work and want to spread that to others. If people think somethings is the greatest thing they spread it around talk about it, the way people defend their favorite bands. At least its not like Republicans and Democrats that sound like they want to take 10 paces and draw most of the times. Debates about PC vs Mac is often just amusing. Example :

10-11-2004, 04:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
jonjon42 Psycho Location: inside my own mind	props for the ctrl+alt+delete reference __________________ A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

10-11-2004, 10:50 PM	#18 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	When someone buys a computer (I guess I'm talking about people that have to consider a 'puter as a semi-to-major purchase. There are some people that don't give two shits as long as the paid help makes the box do what they want, and I guess this wouldn't apply to them.) they are making an investment. They are also making a fairly complicated purchase decision. There are many options to weigh when buying a computer. People tend to see it as, "I'm placing my judgement against yours." I think, because man is a competative animal, and he's a social one. It's in our self interest to join the pack that made the same choice, or similar choice. Together there is strength. The other pack made another choice. To accept it as valid requires a lot of confidence in one's OWN choice. Not everyone has that, you know? You get "mine is bigger" arguments when enough self-doubting people feel the need to try and convince someone who doesn't think the same way to agree with them. Which is silly. Wintel and Mac folks are always arguing theirs is better, and they usually don't wake up and say "What a fool I've been, you're right!" Neither do Intel fanboys listen to an AMD fanboy and suddenly trade their Xbox for a PS2, etc, etc, ad infinitum. "I bought this computer" is the same as "I made this choice." It's up to your level of self assurance to decicde how much you need to defend that. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."