Kickers 800.4 Amplifer. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

TransAm-LT1 · 09-01-2004, 04:08 PM

I was wondering if any one has used the KX800.4 Kicker amplifier. Im a big fan of kicker products and have two of there 1200.1 and 04 Solobaric L7's, and I recently ordered an 800.4, now im starting to hear that it's the black-sheep of the Kicker line up and is plagued with a highfailure rate. I was wondering if any one had any experiences with that model 4 channel amp. If they though it was excellent or trash.

brandon11983 · 09-03-2004, 10:52 PM

I can't speak at all for their reliability, but I do not like their sound. I find them too harsh and "metallic" sounding.

Nelson · 09-04-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandon11983

I can't speak at all for their reliability, but I do not like their sound. I find them too harsh and "metallic" sounding.

What? Thats the biggest load of crap Ive read since visiting the Monster Cable web site. I know a certain individual that has put $10K on the line for the first person to 'hear' the difference between 2 amps - needless to say he hasnt lost a dime.

As for the amp - buy it from an authorized dealer - if you have problems at least it will be backed up by a warranty.

brandon11983 · 09-04-2004, 05:04 PM

I think you need to give a little more credit where credit is due to one of the most respected audiophiles on TFP. I can hear the differences between amps with no trouble whatsoever. Give me the certain individual's name please, I'll use his 10 g's to pay for another semester of school.

To briefly defend Monster Cable, their audio cables aren't the greatest, but their video cables are awesome. Their Z300 component vid cables are great cables at a reasonable price point.

TransAm-LT1 · 09-04-2004, 06:08 PM

Amps can sound harsh, the metallic sound is really harsh highs and when that happens the midrange suffers. The only amp i've heard soundling like that was Db-Drive's line of Speed and Platinum series 4 channels. I thought they were pretty good sounding tell my 4 channel went out for the 3rd time and I just gave up on Db-Drive (there accessories DB-Link, eveything but the topmount terminals are awesome). I hooked my 4 Mb-Quart Componet speakers to a single 2 channel Kicker 120.2 and I couldent believe the diffrence. I turn off all the amps highlow/features and run everything though a 6 channel 6volt line driver and a 6 channel crossover. So it was getting the same signal and frequencies that my other amps were, but they never sounded that good. I got it from an authorised dealer, but i've have a deadhead in the dash so when my 4 channel goes out, all I have is bass which isn't any way to listen to music lol.

Nelson · 09-05-2004, 09:21 AM

I certainly wasnt trying to attack your status as 'resident audiophile'.

Since you are a self proclaimed audiophile Im sure you are familiar with the names Richard Clark, Manville Smith, Mark Eldridge, David Navone etc.??
You can find these individuals here:
www.carsound.com
(experts who have well deserved status - not self proclaimed)

Do a search for 'Amp challenge' in Richard Clarks forum archives.

You can join the hundreds/thousands of nay-sayers.

A watt is a watt - you cant hear the difference - period.

TransAm - your example is not a valid comparison. You switched from a 4ch. amp running all 4 channels at 4 ohms. Switching to a 2 channel driving a stereo 2 ohm load is enough to make any system sound different. Not to mention the possible differences in power, and the difference in gain structure. You cannot simply unplug one amp and plug in another and consider all things equal.

TransAm-LT1 · 09-05-2004, 09:48 AM

Acctualy, a Kicker 120.2 is raited at 60watts for all two channels at 2 ohms. While my previous Db-Drive amp was raited at 90 watts per all 4 channels at 4 ohms, 180x4 @ 2 ohms. So I would have to give the Db-Drive the advantage in rms power, but the little kicker, powering all 4 speakers (I know it's only a temp solution) plays louder, and clearer and I just turned the gain to about 65% I didn't even take the time to properly gain it. But, let's compair a Mb-Quart 4 channel or a McIntosh 4 channel, even with excellent monster cable wiring, there's no way a Jensen or Boss 4 channel is going to sound clearer than any other amp. Especally a McIntosh amplifer, the place that I get my home theater stuff from used to carry a line of McIntosh Car audio since they were one of the few places that was licenced to carry McIntosh products. Let me tell you, that amp puts shame to everything.

Nelson · 09-05-2004, 10:01 AM

I wont argue differences in quality between high end companies and flea market brands. But think about it - a watt is a watt. All things being equal (no processing etc) how can one watt sound different than another?

TransAm - your a perfect example of why people think they hear a difference. If you had each amp set up properly you would have heard no difference under the same listening conditions. One may have been able to play louder/cleaner but that would simply be a result of having more headroom/power. Also - if you have a true 6V line driver there should hardly be a need for '65%' gain - thats got to be well over 10dB of overlap! You need more power!

brandon11983 · 09-05-2004, 07:55 PM

I don't need to read anything. I can hear the differences between amps and I really don't care if others say I can't. Richard Clark himself won't convince me otherwise. And what exactly constitutes a flea market brand amp? Where and how does one draw the line when determining whether a particular amp is a flea market amp?

Nelson · 09-06-2004, 07:30 AM

I've been in the industry for 16 years - Ive worked with nearly all of the major brands and many of what I would consider 'off' brands. I've also been on many sides of the table at the retail level - sales, installation, purchasing etc..

A legitimate company has an true engineering department, a technical support department, a sales/support staff that works with an actual outside sales force, and actually has involvement with the design/manufacturing/assembly/QC of their own product.

I've sat at a table over lunch at the Consumer Electronics Show and listened to a great conversation. It was what I would consider a 'flea market brand' representative discussing his companies options for the 2000 product line. He was meeting with his companies prime manufacturer from China (not uncommon). This company literally paged through a parts book for their product line! It was very enlightening. The guy picked out a flashy amp heat sink from dozens of choices - then was told what pre-assembled boards would work with them. He literally picked out 5 sizes and said 'that'll be the 300W, that'll be the 500W' etc. Same for subwoofers - they literally said 'that cone, this basket, that motor' etc.. And this was a HUGE name (as off brands go). An entire amp/woofer line was 'developed' at my table over a 40 minute lunch!

So they slap it all together, throw some specifications up in the air and see how they land on paper, ship a container full of it to an office park warehouse, and some poor guy/gal ends up dissapointed in his $149 1000W amp or their $29 800W subwoofer they bought out of the back of a Jegs catalog, the internet, or the traveling 'super sale' that blows through town.

Are there 'off' brands that offer descent value? Yes. Are there big name brands that are nothing more than a marketing company? More that I care to admit.

brandon11983 · 09-06-2004, 09:49 AM

I've been in the industry for 5 years now. I too know all about the flea market companies. Since you are in the industry as well, I'm glad to see you urging others to purchase from an authorized dealer. All this ebay and other internet sales shit is really detrimental to what we as specialists are trying to accomplish. ebay has kids believing that they can get a $1000 retail amp for $350 or so, and they don't even think of the consequences. When I was putting my JL "supersystem" together, I didn't even think to look to the internet. I had my dealer and my salesman who I knew and trusted. I took him on his word on what would be the best, and thats what I bought. Sure you will pay more for gear bought from an authorized dealer, but you get full warranty support and someone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about on the other end should you ever need help with it.

Nelson · 09-06-2004, 10:32 AM

You chose a great brand. Of all the companies I have worked with they set the bar for integrity. From Lucio to the tech department - they are a top notch organization - one that other companies could learn a thing or 12 from.

brandon11983 · 09-06-2004, 06:23 PM

They take a lot of crap though. I believe in them fully.

09-01-2004, 04:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
TransAm-LT1 Upright Location: Edmond. OK	Kickers 800.4 Amplifer. I was wondering if any one has used the KX800.4 Kicker amplifier. Im a big fan of kicker products and have two of there 1200.1 and 04 Solobaric L7's, and I recently ordered an 800.4, now im starting to hear that it's the black-sheep of the Kicker line up and is plagued with a highfailure rate. I was wondering if any one had any experiences with that model 4 channel amp. If they though it was excellent or trash.

09-03-2004, 10:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I can't speak at all for their reliability, but I do not like their sound. I find them too harsh and "metallic" sounding. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-04-2004, 05:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I think you need to give a little more credit where credit is due to one of the most respected audiophiles on TFP. I can hear the differences between amps with no trouble whatsoever. Give me the certain individual's name please, I'll use his 10 g's to pay for another semester of school. To briefly defend Monster Cable, their audio cables aren't the greatest, but their video cables are awesome. Their Z300 component vid cables are great cables at a reasonable price point. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-05-2004, 09:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
Nelson Tilted	I certainly wasnt trying to attack your status as 'resident audiophile'. Since you are a self proclaimed audiophile Im sure you are familiar with the names Richard Clark, Manville Smith, Mark Eldridge, David Navone etc.?? You can find these individuals here: www.carsound.com (experts who have well deserved status - not self proclaimed) Do a search for 'Amp challenge' in Richard Clarks forum archives. You can join the hundreds/thousands of nay-sayers. A watt is a watt - you cant hear the difference - period. TransAm - your example is not a valid comparison. You switched from a 4ch. amp running all 4 channels at 4 ohms. Switching to a 2 channel driving a stereo 2 ohm load is enough to make any system sound different. Not to mention the possible differences in power, and the difference in gain structure. You cannot simply unplug one amp and plug in another and consider all things equal. __________________ Nelson

09-05-2004, 10:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
Nelson Tilted	I wont argue differences in quality between high end companies and flea market brands. But think about it - a watt is a watt. All things being equal (no processing etc) how can one watt sound different than another? TransAm - your a perfect example of why people think they hear a difference. If you had each amp set up properly you would have heard no difference under the same listening conditions. One may have been able to play louder/cleaner but that would simply be a result of having more headroom/power. Also - if you have a true 6V line driver there should hardly be a need for '65%' gain - thats got to be well over 10dB of overlap! You need more power! __________________ Nelson

09-04-2004, 06:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
TransAm-LT1 Upright Location: Edmond. OK	Amps can sound harsh, the metallic sound is really harsh highs and when that happens the midrange suffers. The only amp i've heard soundling like that was Db-Drive's line of Speed and Platinum series 4 channels. I thought they were pretty good sounding tell my 4 channel went out for the 3rd time and I just gave up on Db-Drive (there accessories DB-Link, eveything but the topmount terminals are awesome). I hooked my 4 Mb-Quart Componet speakers to a single 2 channel Kicker 120.2 and I couldent believe the diffrence. I turn off all the amps highlow/features and run everything though a 6 channel 6volt line driver and a 6 channel crossover. So it was getting the same signal and frequencies that my other amps were, but they never sounded that good. I got it from an authorised dealer, but i've have a deadhead in the dash so when my 4 channel goes out, all I have is bass which isn't any way to listen to music lol.

09-05-2004, 09:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
TransAm-LT1 Upright Location: Edmond. OK	Acctualy, a Kicker 120.2 is raited at 60watts for all two channels at 2 ohms. While my previous Db-Drive amp was raited at 90 watts per all 4 channels at 4 ohms, 180x4 @ 2 ohms. So I would have to give the Db-Drive the advantage in rms power, but the little kicker, powering all 4 speakers (I know it's only a temp solution) plays louder, and clearer and I just turned the gain to about 65% I didn't even take the time to properly gain it. But, let's compair a Mb-Quart 4 channel or a McIntosh 4 channel, even with excellent monster cable wiring, there's no way a Jensen or Boss 4 channel is going to sound clearer than any other amp. Especally a McIntosh amplifer, the place that I get my home theater stuff from used to carry a line of McIntosh Car audio since they were one of the few places that was licenced to carry McIntosh products. Let me tell you, that amp puts shame to everything.

09-05-2004, 07:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I don't need to read anything. I can hear the differences between amps and I really don't care if others say I can't. Richard Clark himself won't convince me otherwise. And what exactly constitutes a flea market brand amp? Where and how does one draw the line when determining whether a particular amp is a flea market amp? __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-06-2004, 07:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
Nelson Tilted	I've been in the industry for 16 years - Ive worked with nearly all of the major brands and many of what I would consider 'off' brands. I've also been on many sides of the table at the retail level - sales, installation, purchasing etc.. A legitimate company has an true engineering department, a technical support department, a sales/support staff that works with an actual outside sales force, and actually has involvement with the design/manufacturing/assembly/QC of their own product. I've sat at a table over lunch at the Consumer Electronics Show and listened to a great conversation. It was what I would consider a 'flea market brand' representative discussing his companies options for the 2000 product line. He was meeting with his companies prime manufacturer from China (not uncommon). This company literally paged through a parts book for their product line! It was very enlightening. The guy picked out a flashy amp heat sink from dozens of choices - then was told what pre-assembled boards would work with them. He literally picked out 5 sizes and said 'that'll be the 300W, that'll be the 500W' etc. Same for subwoofers - they literally said 'that cone, this basket, that motor' etc.. And this was a HUGE name (as off brands go). An entire amp/woofer line was 'developed' at my table over a 40 minute lunch! So they slap it all together, throw some specifications up in the air and see how they land on paper, ship a container full of it to an office park warehouse, and some poor guy/gal ends up dissapointed in his $149 1000W amp or their $29 800W subwoofer they bought out of the back of a Jegs catalog, the internet, or the traveling 'super sale' that blows through town. Are there 'off' brands that offer descent value? Yes. Are there big name brands that are nothing more than a marketing company? More that I care to admit. __________________ Nelson

09-06-2004, 09:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	I've been in the industry for 5 years now. I too know all about the flea market companies. Since you are in the industry as well, I'm glad to see you urging others to purchase from an authorized dealer. All this ebay and other internet sales shit is really detrimental to what we as specialists are trying to accomplish. ebay has kids believing that they can get a $1000 retail amp for $350 or so, and they don't even think of the consequences. When I was putting my JL "supersystem" together, I didn't even think to look to the internet. I had my dealer and my salesman who I knew and trusted. I took him on his word on what would be the best, and thats what I bought. Sure you will pay more for gear bought from an authorized dealer, but you get full warranty support and someone who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about on the other end should you ever need help with it. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.

09-06-2004, 10:32 AM	#12 (permalink)
Nelson Tilted	You chose a great brand. Of all the companies I have worked with they set the bar for integrity. From Lucio to the tech department - they are a top notch organization - one that other companies could learn a thing or 12 from. __________________ Nelson

09-06-2004, 06:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
brandon11983 Stereophonic Location: Chitown!!	They take a lot of crap though. I believe in them fully. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history.