Ok computer guru's, fix this networking issue.. (Lengthy, but really need the help) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Kurant · 12-01-2003, 05:25 PM

I'm pretty computer savvy, and I'm totally stumped, I still have a few ideas, but lets see what I get here.

Last saturday night I hosted a small lan party. All 4 of my machines were working just great, in harmony, the router was working well, switch, everyones machine, the lan was perfect.

Monday morning, I get up. Try to get on the net, to no avail. Ok, no biggie, start trouble shooting. Type in 192.168.1.1 to get into the router..... Well, wtf, I can't get into it, the router info doesn't even come up. Ok, maybe it's this machine. So I go into my "vault" and get 2 more machines, and get the exact same thing. wtf is going on here?

Day goes by, I get frustrated dealing with it, so later that night, I go back and start over, get to the same point. So I decide well, let me see if i can get on the net. I go to look at my IP address, it's a 169.xxx.xx.xxx, which the network card gives out. The router isn't giving IP numbers. That's odd, I unhook it, load up my PPPoE software for my DSL, (Yes, alaska ISP's blow serious ass). I load it up, I get an error telling me my network card is a device that cannot bind an IP to it. Well, easy fix right, sounds like a network card problem. Hardly. I switch the cards out, with 2 other cards, and my onboard network card. Same thing, on all the cards. I try another computer. SAME thing on another computer. So I put all the cards back in they're respective machines, and go to bed.

Next day, I get up, start fiddiling with it some more. I walk in the next room, low and behold.. My brother and his friend are playing Quake 3 over the network, through the router. Wow, it's fixed itself? Not really. I go back to my machine, and start playing again with the router, I STILL can't get in, each machine has a 169.xxx IP number. I load up quake and try it, and wallah, I can get on the server through the router. I unhook the DSL modem, maybe that's what screwing it up, since the send/recive lights are constantly on. Nope, I unhook the modem, 3 green lights, maybe it's the router? Nope, I try again to install PPPoE and I get an error, I hook the modem back to the router, turn all the machines OFF, and all the lights are solid red/yellow (On my modem that's data transfer.)

So, any ideas as to what the problem could be? I thought maybe a virus, but Norton didn't come up with anything. I get the same errors with ALL the NIC's I own, on all the computers. I cannot connect to the net without the router either, I get an error. With the router, same thing, but no error. I'm assuming because it's finding a network, but that's odd, because the router isn't assigning IP adresses. PLUS I can't get in the fucking thing.

Any ideas? Somthing I'm over looking?

I have no fucking clue, I'm about to find some C4 and go to work on these damn things.

heyal256 · 12-01-2003, 06:15 PM

There is something definitely wrong here... and all things point to the router. Have you tried resetting the router (not just unplugging but hitting a reset button/performing the ritual that the manual says to reset the router)? It sounds like something somehow corrupted the router's configuration and a (hardware)reset may be able to fix it.

I'm guessing by your description that the router itself doesn't seem to be broken but is performing more like a hub then a router.

As long as the computers are set to DHCP, I'm not sure there is any other problems with the computers themselves.

charliex · 12-01-2003, 06:25 PM

How many ip's is the dhcp set for on the router, whats the timeout set for ?

its probably not going to help but i have a problem when i switch networks and have to do a ipconfig /release then ipconfig /renew when dhcp timeouts arent setup correctly , especially since youve changed cards. since.

are you saying the modems transmitting lots of data when the other pcs aren't connected?

but yeah a router reset sounds peachy

Pragma · 12-01-2003, 10:41 PM

Yea, everything you're describing is pointing a giant neon blinking sign right at the router that says "I'm the culprit!". The problem is something in DHCP - my bet is that the router got screwed up somehow and refuses to hand out more DHCP leases because either it has no more left in the range it's allowed to hand out, or else isn't actually capable of handing out more (ie: maybe if the router's DHCP server is limited to 5 DHCP addresses).

Try flushing all DHCP leases from the router - there might be an option to do that somewhere in the configuration for it. Failing that, just do a reset of the router, reset the configuration back to scratch.

That should fix your problems.

splooge · 12-01-2003, 10:56 PM

The 169.xxx.xxx.xxx network is provided by IANA for computers to use that don't have a static IP address or can't obtain an IP address from their DHCP server.

Your computer isn't getting an IP Address for a reason.

Check link lights first. If you have link lights, you should be able to get a DHCP address

If that doesn't work, manually set your IP Address to 192.168.1.123, subnetmask to 255.255.255.0, default gateway to 192.168.1.1, and dns servers as: 192.102.249.3, 192.102.249.9

Once that's set you should be able to get out.

If not, try pinging the router (ping 192.168.1.1) You should get replies. If not, it's a cable issue.

Stargazer01 · 12-01-2003, 11:56 PM

Its also entirely possible you've managed to blow the TCP/IP stack in Windows, and depending on the version, won't be able to recieve an IP address from any DHCP server before an overinstall atleast, and probably a fresh reinstall

Pragma · 12-02-2003, 07:57 AM

Well, if he's getting this problem on multiple computers, I really doubt he managed to nuke the TCP/IP stack on all of them simultaneously, though that is a possibility I suppose.

The best bet is concentrating on figuring out why/if the router isn't handing out DHCP leases.

sailor · 12-02-2003, 08:21 AM

Yeah, try resetting the router. Thats all I can think of right now--you pretty much tried everything I would. All signs point to the router, though...

Vanquish · 12-02-2003, 03:36 PM

I had the exact same problem with my Dlink router, my Linksys worked fine all the time, but with the Dlink, I donno whats going on. Anyway, most of the time a reset of the router worked, like everyone else said. But sometimes it just WOULD NOT WORK I dont understand what happened to it but I had to go in and fiddle with the internal setting quite a bit before something finally clicked. Try and set a static IP and then make the DMZ of the router that IP, dont leave it like this but its worth a shot. Also you said you needed to install some PPPoE software? well with most routers all you have to do is set up the WAN part to connect to a PPPoE server and make it stay connected all the time.
Just a few thoughts, people already covered the main things.

Retardo · 12-02-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by splooge
The 169.xxx.xxx.xxx network is provided by IANA for computers to use that don't have a static IP address or can't obtain an IP address from their DHCP server.

Your computer isn't getting an IP Address for a reason.

Check link lights first. If you have link lights, you should be able to get a DHCP address

If that doesn't work, manually set your IP Address to 192.168.1.123, subnetmask to 255.255.255.0, default gateway to 192.168.1.1, and dns servers as: 192.102.249.3, 192.102.249.9

Once that's set you should be able to get out.

If not, try pinging the router (ping 192.168.1.1) You should get replies. If not, it's a cable issue.

I agree with Splooge's diagnosis. The PPPoE software problem is a seperate issue and probably just a coincidence. If you arn't getting an IP address from your router then your router has a problem. Check to see if you have any activity or status lights. Most 'over the counter' routers will have a WAN and/or LAN connection or status light. Make sure they're on. If not... your cables are loose or bad or maybe the device on the other end is dead.

gorillabiscuit · 12-03-2003, 12:57 AM

You seem to be having two separate problems and you need to deal with them separatly. I've experienced a similar problem with a PPPoE and your timeout issues. First of all update the firmware for your router to the latest available. You stated that the router ip address is 192.168.1.1 so i'm assuming it's a Linksys BEFW* router since DLink uses 192.168.0.1 for default. Make sure the DHCP service is working properly. You should be able to do ipconfig /release /renew at will. Just because windows says your adapter has a certian ip address assigned to it doen't mean shit; make sure you can always ping your gateway (192.168.1.1). The second problem you seem to be having is PPPoE timeout. There is an option in the Linksys setup to "keep connection alive" or words to that effect. I belive this checkbox is on the main setup screen or possibly under the 'advanced' tab. Sorry I can't confirm that for you but i'm not close to one. This setting will force your router to communicate with the other end of the PPP tunnel without user intervention thereby keeping the connection up. Good luck.

oberon · 12-04-2003, 01:56 AM

No, 169.x.x.x is not reserved by IANA. In fact most of it is Internet sites. I think the IP's he's using are actually assigned to Microsoft. RFC 1918 DOES specify a number of networks reserved by IANA for the purpose you mention, namely 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x, and 192.168.x.x.

In any case, configuring the machines manually is definitely a good next step to helping determine what's wrong with the network. Also try using ping, netstat, etc. to diagnose the problem. There are quite a few nice tools on the Internet for basic network diagnostics.

Pragma · 12-04-2003, 11:49 AM

The 169.254 class B is assigned to IANA through RFC 3330
Specifically:

Quote:

169.254.0.0/16 - This is the "link local" block. It is allocated for communication between hosts on a single link. Hosts obtain these addresses by auto-configuration, such as when a DHCP server may not be found.

Edit: It would seem as if RFC3330 is an update to RFC1918, as it includes the three well-known non-routable private networks in addition to several others.

Amarth · 12-04-2003, 10:53 PM

Stomped me too. Sorry.

soopafreek · 12-06-2003, 09:14 AM

192.168.1.1?

i thought it was supposed to be 192.168.0.1 for routers?
i'm just a noob, so if i'm wrong, forgive me...

Pragma · 12-06-2003, 10:54 AM

192.168/16 is the class B devoted to private, nonroutable IPs.

Therefore, anything in that range is useable by routers/etc. for private networks. Some routers start issuing IPs at 192.168.1.1, others at 192.168.0.1, it's the preference of the company.

On the technical side, it makes no real difference.

12-01-2003, 05:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	Ok computer guru's, fix this networking issue.. (Lengthy, but really need the help) I'm pretty computer savvy, and I'm totally stumped, I still have a few ideas, but lets see what I get here. Last saturday night I hosted a small lan party. All 4 of my machines were working just great, in harmony, the router was working well, switch, everyones machine, the lan was perfect. Monday morning, I get up. Try to get on the net, to no avail. Ok, no biggie, start trouble shooting. Type in 192.168.1.1 to get into the router..... Well, wtf, I can't get into it, the router info doesn't even come up. Ok, maybe it's this machine. So I go into my "vault" and get 2 more machines, and get the exact same thing. wtf is going on here? Day goes by, I get frustrated dealing with it, so later that night, I go back and start over, get to the same point. So I decide well, let me see if i can get on the net. I go to look at my IP address, it's a 169.xxx.xx.xxx, which the network card gives out. The router isn't giving IP numbers. That's odd, I unhook it, load up my PPPoE software for my DSL, (Yes, alaska ISP's blow serious ass). I load it up, I get an error telling me my network card is a device that cannot bind an IP to it. Well, easy fix right, sounds like a network card problem. Hardly. I switch the cards out, with 2 other cards, and my onboard network card. Same thing, on all the cards. I try another computer. SAME thing on another computer. So I put all the cards back in they're respective machines, and go to bed. Next day, I get up, start fiddiling with it some more. I walk in the next room, low and behold.. My brother and his friend are playing Quake 3 over the network, through the router. Wow, it's fixed itself? Not really. I go back to my machine, and start playing again with the router, I STILL can't get in, each machine has a 169.xxx IP number. I load up quake and try it, and wallah, I can get on the server through the router. I unhook the DSL modem, maybe that's what screwing it up, since the send/recive lights are constantly on. Nope, I unhook the modem, 3 green lights, maybe it's the router? Nope, I try again to install PPPoE and I get an error, I hook the modem back to the router, turn all the machines OFF, and all the lights are solid red/yellow (On my modem that's data transfer.) So, any ideas as to what the problem could be? I thought maybe a virus, but Norton didn't come up with anything. I get the same errors with ALL the NIC's I own, on all the computers. I cannot connect to the net without the router either, I get an error. With the router, same thing, but no error. I'm assuming because it's finding a network, but that's odd, because the router isn't assigning IP adresses. PLUS I can't get in the fucking thing. Any ideas? Somthing I'm over looking? I have no fucking clue, I'm about to find some C4 and go to work on these damn things.

12-01-2003, 10:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Yea, everything you're describing is pointing a giant neon blinking sign right at the router that says "I'm the culprit!". The problem is something in DHCP - my bet is that the router got screwed up somehow and refuses to hand out more DHCP leases because either it has no more left in the range it's allowed to hand out, or else isn't actually capable of handing out more (ie: maybe if the router's DHCP server is limited to 5 DHCP addresses). Try flushing all DHCP leases from the router - there might be an option to do that somewhere in the configuration for it. Failing that, just do a reset of the router, reset the configuration back to scratch. That should fix your problems. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

12-02-2003, 07:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Well, if he's getting this problem on multiple computers, I really doubt he managed to nuke the TCP/IP stack on all of them simultaneously, though that is a possibility I suppose. The best bet is concentrating on figuring out why/if the router isn't handing out DHCP leases. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

12-02-2003, 08:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Yeah, try resetting the router. Thats all I can think of right now--you pretty much tried everything I would. All signs point to the router, though... __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

12-04-2003, 01:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
oberon Quadrature Amplitude Modulator Location: Denver	No, 169.x.x.x is not reserved by IANA. In fact most of it is Internet sites. I think the IP's he's using are actually assigned to Microsoft. RFC 1918 DOES specify a number of networks reserved by IANA for the purpose you mention, namely 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x, and 192.168.x.x. In any case, configuring the machines manually is definitely a good next step to helping determine what's wrong with the network. Also try using ping, netstat, etc. to diagnose the problem. There are quite a few nice tools on the Internet for basic network diagnostics. __________________ "There are finer fish in the sea than have ever been caught." -- Irish proverb

12-01-2003, 06:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
heyal256 Not so great lurker Location: NY	There is something definitely wrong here... and all things point to the router. Have you tried resetting the router (not just unplugging but hitting a reset button/performing the ritual that the manual says to reset the router)? It sounds like something somehow corrupted the router's configuration and a (hardware)reset may be able to fix it. I'm guessing by your description that the router itself doesn't seem to be broken but is performing more like a hub then a router. As long as the computers are set to DHCP, I'm not sure there is any other problems with the computers themselves.

12-01-2003, 06:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	How many ip's is the dhcp set for on the router, whats the timeout set for ? its probably not going to help but i have a problem when i switch networks and have to do a ipconfig /release then ipconfig /renew when dhcp timeouts arent setup correctly , especially since youve changed cards. since. are you saying the modems transmitting lots of data when the other pcs aren't connected? but yeah a router reset sounds peachy

12-01-2003, 10:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
splooge Upright	The 169.xxx.xxx.xxx network is provided by IANA for computers to use that don't have a static IP address or can't obtain an IP address from their DHCP server. Your computer isn't getting an IP Address for a reason. Check link lights first. If you have link lights, you should be able to get a DHCP address If that doesn't work, manually set your IP Address to 192.168.1.123, subnetmask to 255.255.255.0, default gateway to 192.168.1.1, and dns servers as: 192.102.249.3, 192.102.249.9 Once that's set you should be able to get out. If not, try pinging the router (ping 192.168.1.1) You should get replies. If not, it's a cable issue.

12-01-2003, 11:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	Its also entirely possible you've managed to blow the TCP/IP stack in Windows, and depending on the version, won't be able to recieve an IP address from any DHCP server before an overinstall atleast, and probably a fresh reinstall

12-02-2003, 03:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Vanquish Insane Location: Truro, Nova Scotia	I had the exact same problem with my Dlink router, my Linksys worked fine all the time, but with the Dlink, I donno whats going on. Anyway, most of the time a reset of the router worked, like everyone else said. But sometimes it just WOULD NOT WORK I dont understand what happened to it but I had to go in and fiddle with the internal setting quite a bit before something finally clicked. Try and set a static IP and then make the DMZ of the router that IP, dont leave it like this but its worth a shot. Also you said you needed to install some PPPoE software? well with most routers all you have to do is set up the WAN part to connect to a PPPoE server and make it stay connected all the time. Just a few thoughts, people already covered the main things.

12-03-2003, 12:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
gorillabiscuit Upright Location: Seal Beach CA	You seem to be having two separate problems and you need to deal with them separatly. I've experienced a similar problem with a PPPoE and your timeout issues. First of all update the firmware for your router to the latest available. You stated that the router ip address is 192.168.1.1 so i'm assuming it's a Linksys BEFW* router since DLink uses 192.168.0.1 for default. Make sure the DHCP service is working properly. You should be able to do ipconfig /release /renew at will. Just because windows says your adapter has a certian ip address assigned to it doen't mean shit; make sure you can always ping your gateway (192.168.1.1). The second problem you seem to be having is PPPoE timeout. There is an option in the Linksys setup to "keep connection alive" or words to that effect. I belive this checkbox is on the main setup screen or possibly under the 'advanced' tab. Sorry I can't confirm that for you but i'm not close to one. This setting will force your router to communicate with the other end of the PPP tunnel without user intervention thereby keeping the connection up. Good luck.

12-04-2003, 10:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
Amarth Loser Location: About 50,000 feet in the air... oh shit.	Stomped me too. Sorry.

12-06-2003, 09:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
soopafreek Psycho Location: ask your mom	192.168.1.1? i thought it was supposed to be 192.168.0.1 for routers? i'm just a noob, so if i'm wrong, forgive me... __________________ aaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!

12-06-2003, 10:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	192.168/16 is the class B devoted to private, nonroutable IPs. Therefore, anything in that range is useable by routers/etc. for private networks. Some routers start issuing IPs at 192.168.1.1, others at 192.168.0.1, it's the preference of the company. On the technical side, it makes no real difference. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!