Why install MS-DOS before installing Windows? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

amge · 07-23-2003, 01:37 PM

I have a question for people who install Windows themselves.

Some of my PC friends have said you have to install MS Dos before you and install Windows 9X, NT, 2000, ME or XP.

Now I can see Windows 95 since you needed at least a boot floppy with the CD-Rom drivers. But you didn't have to install MS DOS. Once the CD rom drivers loaded, then just put the Windows cd in and run setup.

Now with NT, 98, 2000, ME and XP the CD-Rom's are bootable. So again just boot off the cd rom and install WIndows.

But for some reason the tell me that you have to install dos first.

Am I missing something.

The_Dude · 07-23-2003, 01:45 PM

i dont see the point of installing dos before you install another os at all.

unless you dont have a bootable cdrom drive, u're gonna need the drivers off a boot disk.

heyal256 · 07-23-2003, 01:48 PM

I think that you are missing the fact that a lot of the computers that were around when win95/win98 first came out did NOT support booting from the cd-rom drive. This was a bios limitation if I remember correctly.
The other possibility is that they usually kept the windows cab files on the hd before installing, so after you had msdos installed, you could copy all of the setup files onto the HD and then run setup from the hd, with the benefit that if you needed drivers rom them, the files were already available on the hd instead of having to put in the cd.

Now, most people should just be able to pop in the cd and install the OS without the hassle of installing dos.

amge · 07-23-2003, 01:56 PM

Yeah it was in the bios. But two guys said they always use dos first. I even looked at their autoexec.bat and config.sys and they are loading the cdrom driver, mouse, and sound card driver. I was like wtf.

Oh well I guess same is true for PC people. It's hard to train an old dog new tricks.

Vanquish · 07-23-2003, 02:43 PM

Not just that but if you install Dos first you can do EVERYTHING manually, some new OSs dislike you changing things yourself for instance, if you install Dos first and do not have a boot disk that allows you to put a Logo on the System screen (Like most OEMs such as Dell / Gateway) Through Dos you can set up the new installation to do this. Also you can (if you know what your doing) fix problems without worring about using a small 600k partition like what a Floppy boot would use for Dos.

Thats just with Win 98, I dont know about 2k or XP.

wasapeas · 07-23-2003, 02:52 PM

If you are installing newer operating systems, it would be inadvisable to install DOS first. DOS used to be installed first way back in the day depending on the version of windows due to upgrade/formatting/fdisk issues. You had to fdisk and partition the drive before anything could be installed, and windows couldn't do that for you. I don't see why anybody would want to use DOS now.

Pragma · 07-23-2003, 03:09 PM

The main problem with installing DOS first is that you can't use format using NTFS. NTFS is superior to FAT32 in that it has much better file security, as well as more esoteric enhancements.

Short version: DOS bad. Install modern OS, not DOS.

Dilbert1234567 · 07-23-2003, 03:37 PM

it is acualy worse to install dos first, you want to format teh hard drive as FAT32 or preferably NTSF. dos cant do NTSF and i dont think it can do FAT32 either (please correct me if im wrong)

all you have to do is set the bios to boot from the CD and drop in any modern os (98\NT or higher) and it will boot and install

Pragma · 07-23-2003, 03:52 PM

Depends on the version of DOS, but the earlier versions only did FAT16. Later ones did FAT32.

Win9x = FAT32. WinME is, at least by default, FAT32. I don't remember if it can do NTFS.
Win2k/WinXP/Win2k3 are all NTFS.

Windows XP will let you format the drive before installing, just delete any existing partitions during the "DOS-looking" setup, then recreate them, and it will ask you for either FAT32 or NTFS (you want NTFS). It'll then format it for you.

bobsonite · 07-23-2003, 04:12 PM

You have absolutely no reason to install DOS before installing win98 or newer. Even win95 is pushing it. Anything you need DOS to do can be accomplished from an old boot disk.

Latch · 07-23-2003, 05:31 PM

ME cannot do NTFS, pretty sure. It's a piece of shit OS anyways.

I always used to install DOS (in 95/early 98 days). Well, not install dos properly as much as just format the drive and then SYS it. Non-bootable CDs were such a pain in the ass.

Now I just throw the CD in and don't even bother with DOS. Not much of a need to do all the DOS stuff once you have the CD-ROM working (or bootable).

Jaron · 07-23-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by heyal256
I think that you are missing the fact that a lot of the computers that were around when win95/win98 first came out did NOT support booting from the cd-rom drive. This was a bios limitation if I remember correctly.

Not quite true.

The CD-ROM's themselves weren't designed as a boot device, like floppies were. The earlier CD-ROMS were, of course, PIO-0 to PIO-1. Only drives of IDE mode 3 or higher have boot capability.

(I spent the last year working with old hardware. Can you blame me?)

charliex · 07-23-2003, 06:06 PM

charliex · 07-23-2003, 06:07 PM

sometimes you install dos which takes all of 30 seconds, and then copy the install files to the HD which is faster, sometimes

and then you upgrade to NTFS

Pragma · 07-23-2003, 06:13 PM

I really don't recommend upgrading any system (even if it is FAT32->NTFS). Reformat and install from scratch, that way you get no funky errors.

ssander9 · 08-01-2003, 04:34 AM

Do not install dos first if you are installing win98 on up to win xp

It is pointless and will be quite useless to the average user.

It will only slow the install down, first to install it and then to convert back to NTFS when installing win2k on up

07-23-2003, 01:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
amge Crazy	Why install MS-DOS before installing Windows? I have a question for people who install Windows themselves. Some of my PC friends have said you have to install MS Dos before you and install Windows 9X, NT, 2000, ME or XP. Now I can see Windows 95 since you needed at least a boot floppy with the CD-Rom drivers. But you didn't have to install MS DOS. Once the CD rom drivers loaded, then just put the Windows cd in and run setup. Now with NT, 98, 2000, ME and XP the CD-Rom's are bootable. So again just boot off the cd rom and install WIndows. But for some reason the tell me that you have to install dos first. Am I missing something.

07-23-2003, 01:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i dont see the point of installing dos before you install another os at all. unless you dont have a bootable cdrom drive, u're gonna need the drivers off a boot disk. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-23-2003, 03:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	The main problem with installing DOS first is that you can't use format using NTFS. NTFS is superior to FAT32 in that it has much better file security, as well as more esoteric enhancements. Short version: DOS bad. Install modern OS, not DOS. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

07-23-2003, 03:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	it is acualy worse to install dos first, you want to format teh hard drive as FAT32 or preferably NTSF. dos cant do NTSF and i dont think it can do FAT32 either (please correct me if im wrong) all you have to do is set the bios to boot from the CD and drop in any modern os (98\NT or higher) and it will boot and install __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

07-23-2003, 03:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	Depends on the version of DOS, but the earlier versions only did FAT16. Later ones did FAT32. Win9x = FAT32. WinME is, at least by default, FAT32. I don't remember if it can do NTFS. Win2k/WinXP/Win2k3 are all NTFS. Windows XP will let you format the drive before installing, just delete any existing partitions during the "DOS-looking" setup, then recreate them, and it will ask you for either FAT32 or NTFS (you want NTFS). It'll then format it for you. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

07-23-2003, 01:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
heyal256 Not so great lurker Location: NY	I think that you are missing the fact that a lot of the computers that were around when win95/win98 first came out did NOT support booting from the cd-rom drive. This was a bios limitation if I remember correctly. The other possibility is that they usually kept the windows cab files on the hd before installing, so after you had msdos installed, you could copy all of the setup files onto the HD and then run setup from the hd, with the benefit that if you needed drivers rom them, the files were already available on the hd instead of having to put in the cd. Now, most people should just be able to pop in the cd and install the OS without the hassle of installing dos.

07-23-2003, 01:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
amge Crazy	Yeah it was in the bios. But two guys said they always use dos first. I even looked at their autoexec.bat and config.sys and they are loading the cdrom driver, mouse, and sound card driver. I was like wtf. Oh well I guess same is true for PC people. It's hard to train an old dog new tricks.

07-23-2003, 02:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vanquish Insane Location: Truro, Nova Scotia	Not just that but if you install Dos first you can do EVERYTHING manually, some new OSs dislike you changing things yourself for instance, if you install Dos first and do not have a boot disk that allows you to put a Logo on the System screen (Like most OEMs such as Dell / Gateway) Through Dos you can set up the new installation to do this. Also you can (if you know what your doing) fix problems without worring about using a small 600k partition like what a Floppy boot would use for Dos. Thats just with Win 98, I dont know about 2k or XP.

07-23-2003, 02:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
wasapeas Upright	If you are installing newer operating systems, it would be inadvisable to install DOS first. DOS used to be installed first way back in the day depending on the version of windows due to upgrade/formatting/fdisk issues. You had to fdisk and partition the drive before anything could be installed, and windows couldn't do that for you. I don't see why anybody would want to use DOS now.

07-23-2003, 04:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
bobsonite Upright	You have absolutely no reason to install DOS before installing win98 or newer. Even win95 is pushing it. Anything you need DOS to do can be accomplished from an old boot disk.

07-23-2003, 05:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	ME cannot do NTFS, pretty sure. It's a piece of shit OS anyways. I always used to install DOS (in 95/early 98 days). Well, not install dos properly as much as just format the drive and then SYS it. Non-bootable CDs were such a pain in the ass. Now I just throw the CD in and don't even bother with DOS. Not much of a need to do all the DOS stuff once you have the CD-ROM working (or bootable).

07-23-2003, 06:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood

07-23-2003, 06:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
charliex Junkie Location: North Hollywood	sometimes you install dos which takes all of 30 seconds, and then copy the install files to the HD which is faster, sometimes and then you upgrade to NTFS

07-23-2003, 06:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	I really don't recommend upgrading any system (even if it is FAT32->NTFS). Reformat and install from scratch, that way you get no funky errors. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

08-01-2003, 04:34 AM	#16 (permalink)
ssander9 Amplitude Modulator Location: US	Do not install dos first if you are installing win98 on up to win xp It is pointless and will be quite useless to the average user. It will only slow the install down, first to install it and then to convert back to NTFS when installing win2k on up __________________ I never said you had to.