biznatch

OK guys, this is my first experience building a completely new pc completely from scratch.

I've done drive replacements, card replacements, processor removals, but putting it all together seems quite daunting.
Don't worry though, I'll be using Google as my main guide to build it, but I wanted some quality TFP input as to the guts of this franken-machine.

OK, first things first. A case. I have no space issues, so I think an ATX mid tower should do fine, right? Basically I need it to fit stuff and let air through with no problems, correct?
How about this?
My friend might give me his old case.

OK, now the important stuff. We need a motherboard and a compatible processor. Are there ever any decent deals on combos of these together? I want to use my computer for games, so is the LGA 775 a good socket to go with?
Are there any other issues I should be aware of? Maybe some processors are better, harder to cool, more likely to fail, etc??? I think this is the part I'm most intimidated with. Dual core? Quad core?
Or is AMD better? What's a good deal?

-OK, also important is the video card. I was thinking this: EVGA GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
Will the motherboard allow me to get another later and run them in SLI?
What are some of the things I need to know about SLI, compatibilty issues, can I only use it with the same type of card?
Do I need a special type of motherboard for it? Is an ATX mid big enough for two of these??
I was thinking of spending the money on a second GPU later, maybe when prices are even lower and I can afford spending money again.

Power supply? I need to power a video card, with the possibility of needing to power two in SLI later on. Do I need 650W? more? Does the brand matter at all?

Ram, I figure, is the easiest. I'll probably start out with 4 gigs, because it's dirt cheap now. Hard drive is also probably something I can figure out on my own.

I have an old sound card lying around, should still work. And a monitor, a 17in Dell which will be fine for now.

Am I forgetting anything important? Any advice? Any good deal you're aware of? As this is a learning experience for me, I must add that I'm quite excited to build my own war machine. And also, I will try and take detailed pictures of the building process, with steps written as I go through them.

Before I forget, I'm looking to spend about $500-600, is this feasible, if I decide I only need one GPU for now?

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Lasereth

That case should do fine.

Yes

Nope

Dual core is best for gaming in my opinion unless you plan on overclocking (which is not a good idea for someone building their first PC). Quadcores typically have lower clock speeds but 4 cores, and many games only use 2 cores or even 1, so dual cores with their higher clock speeds are better bang for your buck. AMD and Intel both have great CPUs for the price. It depends on how much you want to spend. AMD can't compete with the high-end Intel CPUs but at the low to medium range they do fine. If you want upgradeability I would go with LGA 775.

Good choice!

Depends on your motherboard. If you want to do SLI (I wouldn't) then you need to make sure the board has 2 PCI-E x16 videocard slots.

Some games don't use it, but it won't fail, it will just use 1 card. With NVIDIA cards you will need the same model. ATI has a feature that lets you use different models but I don't know the specifics about it.

Mid ATX will be fine.

You will need between 350w and 600w depending on the brand and model. The brand DOES matter more than any other component in the entire system. I recommend PC Power and Cooling, Enermax, Thermaltake, Antec, SeaSonic USA, Corsair, Sparkle brands. You need to make sure it has two PCI-E connectors for videocards if you want to do SLI. 350-400w should be fine with those brands if you get 1 GPU. 2 GPUs I would do 500-600w.

Yes, just buy DDR2 memory, at least 2 GB, preferably bundled together to prevent memory problems.

Things will go wrong during the build and installation so have a secondary PC available to look at the Internet with. And be ready to send back bad parts because it happens all the time.

Yes, very feasible.

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biznatch

Wow, Lasereth, very quick and informative reply. All this advice is much appreciated, and will certainly help.
A couple more on the GPU, since you're here.
I've heard that the 88-- and 98-- are quite similar.
Now I see this:

Is the 8800 GTS faster/more powerful? It's 15 bucks more after rebate, but is it a better card?

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fiatguy85

I recently helped my father build a PC. For the mid-range CPUs the AMD processors seemed to be faster for the price but were less power efficient (and consequently run hotter and produce more heat). We did end up choosing the AMD though.

Unless you're running a high end stereo system you probably don't need a sound card. What is built into the motherboard is usually sufficient and a lot of them are 5.1 and 7.1 output now.

ATX is more or less the standard or normal size. Mid tower size is the typical size you'll see on full computer systems from Dell, HP etc.

Zweiblumen

Check the power requirements of the GPU, I recently got a Geforce 9600 card and it needs 400W PSU.

Yours
Zweiblumen

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biznatch

OK guys, this is what I have so far after a couple of hours of brainstorming.

RAIDMAX HYBRID 2 RX-530SS 530W ATX12V V2.2/ EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Modular LED Power Supply

EVGA 512-P3-N975-AR GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500 - Retail

LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model GH22NP20 - OEM

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

So we have a case (my friend will probably give me one, seems big enough), a PSU, RAM, GPU, HDD, DVDRW.

Now I need to pick a Mobo and CPU. And this is the part I know the least about. Maybe a little bit more background info is in order here. I like to game, and I will be using this machine to play games. This should handle games like Crysis, Far Cry 2, fallout 3, and all that. I'd like to run several apps at the same time, ideally, but not a dealbreaker if I can't use photoshop and Windows Movie Maker at the same time.
So i think we've narrowed it down to a LGA 775, with two PCIe slots. Anything else? Anything on Newegg that you'd recommend? Any brands to stay away from, or any you would go for?
Thanks guys.

EDIT: OK, after looking at soem mobo reviews, it seems tough to plan for a future possible SLI. however it's an option I would like to have in case I need the graphical power later on

EDIT2: This Mobo seems ok, thoughts?

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kutulu

I will be getting a new system soon and I was exploring building it myself like I did with my current system but now I'm leaning towards a customizable model from Cyberpower. I've spent hours analyzing different prices for components, which ones to buy that will be compatible, etc. and I can't build a comparable system less than I can get a pre-built custom system from Cyberpower.

My budget will be about $1,700. I'm looking to get the new Intel i7 920 with 6 GB ram. I plan on getting a blu ray drive and using my HDTV as a secondary display so that the blu ray drive can act as a blu ray player. The thing I'm totally stuck on is what to do about the video card(s). There are a million options out there and I've read so many reviews and benchmarks that I don't know what to do. It's hard to tell if the newer cards (gtx280 or ATI 4870) are better than, say two slightly older cards running sli or crossfire.

powerclown

Modular, coiled power supplies are awesome. Makes working on things inside much easier, some say it also improves airflow/cooling.

Lasereth would know better than me, but it may be worth it to go with the EVGA GeForce 9800 GTX for $30 bucks more, Call of Duty WAW included free. Just a thought.

biznatch

I can't for the life of me figure out how to accurately compare the different LGA 775 processors. Gah.

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powerclown

Again, by price. The more money you want to spend, the faster processor you get, that simple. Both 775 core 2 duos and quads are fine, the duos start around $120, quads $190. Looking over that foxconn motherboard, while it does support sli, it is CrossfireX which I believe means it only supports ATI videocards in sli.

fiatguy85

A good way to compare processors is reading through some of the articles on this site.

I would also say go ahead with 4GB of RAM as you initially suggested, although I don't know the specific requirements of the games you mentioned.

Baraka_Guru

When do you think this will change? Quad-core gaming has been born. For example, Valve retooled their Source engine specifically to accommodate four cores. Left 4 Dead was their first full game release coded for quad-core optimal performance. I recently bought a machine on sale (for around $900) and it was loaded with a Q6600 and a GeForce 8800GT. That seems accessible in price to me (this being in Canada). It's 2.4Ghz per core, which certainly is lower than a duo core around 3Ghz each, but what is the real difference when you consider what's coming down the road? I suppose it depends on how long you plan on using the CPU for before upgrading. I imagine it will be only a matter of time before most major games are designed around four cores, with duo-core compatibility. Steam did a survey recently and found that while 50% of users are running duo core, 1 out of every 10 are running quad core already. AMD just released a new and powerful chip that they claim has more bang for the buck than a comparable Intel chip: AMD's 45nm Phenoms ride 'Dragon' ? The Register.

It might be too soon for quad core for biznatch, sure, but do you think he should rule it out completely at this time?

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lasereth

If he wasn't on such a strict budget then yes it is a consideration. But with $500-$600 to build the whole PC, quadcore isn't worth it.
-----Added 9/1/2009 at 11 : 37 : 40-----
Yes the 8800 GTS is a better card but I don't include MIR offers in my guide or in advice. MIRs are often unreliable and take months to arrive. The extra $15 isn't worth the performance increase anyway. If you are hellbent on spending more on a videocard (which is a good idea) then I would get the Radeon HD 4850 for $145.
-----Added 9/1/2009 at 11 : 40 : 19-----
HISS!!!!!!!!!!

RAIDMAX has a history of terrible power supplies. They are cheaply made and often come bundled in PC cases. I would stay away from anything except the brands I listed above for a power supply. Trust me on this, you don't want anything but the best quality power supply.
-----Added 9/1/2009 at 11 : 46 : 14-----
Also, biznatch if you do have your mind made up on components, make sure to post them here and their prices. Price is everything.

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shakran

regarding the thermaltake power supply recommendation. . . Keep in mind that they have two lines of power supplies. The Toughpower line is excellent. the Purepower line is Purecrap.

biznatch

hehehe, OK, I read good reviews but I trust your judgment. I've had trouble finding similar priced PSUs with the same wattage from the brands you recommend. I will take a better look though.

OK, something else. First off, I'm having a hell of a hard time picking a motherboard that has a decent price with reviews that don't have me worried about space to run 2 cards in SLI.
This one seems interesting. EVGA.
I keep hearing bad stuff about Asus in the reviews, and now I just read that EVGA has a bad reputation. What's left? Biostar? All the other brands either seems too expensive or I've never heard of them, which gives me little trust.

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Zweiblumen

Ram : If you will be using 32 bit Windows then any memory beond 3 Gb will be hard to use.

DVD : IDE optical drives can cause slow down of the system when used with SATA drives. Sofar I have only seen (and heard of) this happening under Windows OSes but have nothing that support that it is OS dependant.


Yours
Zweiblumen

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Jinn

Ever raidmax PSU I've ever had failed, slowly; first by not giving enough power for all internals, and then failing completely. I second Lasereth on that.

However,

This, I have to disagree with. I just build a budget PC (around $600) with the Kentsfield Q6600 (low-end) quad-core and noticed substantial difference in the games I play over dual core. I've seen improvements in Cysis and EverQuest2, for sure. In fairness, EQ2 has a check box for 'use multicore support' which means they've clearly optimized for it, but I do think that considering the similarity between the higher end dual core and the low-to-mid quad-cores, I'd pick a quad core again any day.

Also, I haven't seen any reason to go with the "FATALITY" branded anything - I think you're paying more for marketing than performance. There are plenty of good 4GB bundles out there, 1066, with good speed - for much cheaper.
-----Added 9/1/2009 at 02 : 11 : 02-----
As an example, here's the system I built:

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

ASRock P43Twins1600 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

EVGA 512-P3-N879-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail

Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664AA80A - Retail

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Sony NEC Optiarc 20X DVDR Burner Black SATA Model AD-7200S-0B - OEM



I think it was $660 shipped at the time, after mail-in rebates.

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shakran

for the motherboard, check out Gigabyte. They're good, solid, reliable boards that aren't too expensive. I've always had very good luck with them.

(edit)

Oh, and check out BFG for another low-cost high quality vidcard. i have one of their 8800GTS's in the rig I built a couple years back, and it's been a fantastic little card.

biznatch

This PSU is shaped weird. Why? But it is a thermaltake and looking at the reviews, seems to be SLI ready. 70 bucks.
EDIT: forgot LINK

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Lasereth

There's no way you can spend $170 on a motherboard with your budget so tight. I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a motherboard and go even cheaper than that if possible. Why are you so hellbent on SLI? It's totally out of your price range and is a headache unless you're a true enthusiast.

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biznatch

The fatal1ty RAM here is $45, I don't care much for some pro gamer's signature on it, but seemed reasonably priced. The crucial ballistix are priced higher.

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shakran

that's meant as a secondary power supply if your primary isn't powerful enough. i would not use it as a primary.

biznatch

Thanks for this. I'll look for a cheap SATA DVD-RW. TBH I hadn't thought about IDE/SATA until recently, since I have a Hard Drive that's 300GB, but it's IDE. I guess that one will stay external (I made it external when i got rid of my old desktop and bought a laptop).

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Lasereth

What dual-core did you upgrade from?

Don't get me wrong. I love quad-cores and would get one myself if I had the money to blow. But in the low-end, if you take the cheapest quadcore you can buy and then with the same amount of money buy a dual core (like a core 2 duo), I can guarantee the C2D will outperform the quadcore in most games. If you don't believe me, check out the charts at Tom's Hardware or Anandtech.


The Radeon HD 4850 512 MB blows this out of the water and is cheaper with no MIRs.

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biznatch

I don't know, tbh. I guess I don't wanna blow a huge amount of money on an amazing video card, but I'd like the increase in performance in a year when games get more demanding, by buying a second video card.
I guess it doesn't make much sense. I could, after all, save up and upgrade in a couple years to a kick ass GPU.
The money I'd save on the mobo could be used for a better processor.

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kutulu

Tom's Hardware did a review of the new AMD processors and based on the benchmarks, they are not comparable to the Core i7 Processors. Almost all of the time they were smoked by the Intel quad core processors as well. Yet somehow, at the end of the review they called it a good buy. The benchmarks clearly show that AMD is just now catching up to where Intel was two years ago. Yes the Core i7 setup will cost more but the performance slays the Dragon

Lasereth

The new AMD quadcores aren't competing with the I7s. Take the amount of money it takes to buy the new AMD Phenom II quadcores, buy a Core 2 Quad with it, and the Phenom II will at least be on par with it, even slightly better in some tests. It's about the price to performance ratio, not just who can release the fastest CPU in the world.

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shakran

That would be the wiser course of action. To benefit notably from SLI you'd be in for 5-600 just for that. Not an economical use of your funds. For what it's worth my 2 year old 8800GTS with 320megs is still performing perfectly on everything I throw at it, with the eye candy turned up full. With, of course, the exception of flight simulator because that damn thing is coded so poorly that it'll be 2012 before a video card can crunch the numbers fast enough And even on that, I only have to turn view distance down a little bit for smooth framerates. Video cards have become incredibly powerful these past few years. I really don't see much advantage to an SLI'd setup unless you're doing something crazy.

biznatch

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards
That's GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard for 80 bucks. For my needs, considering I'm leaning more towards a single video card now, is this good?
-----Added 9/1/2009 at 04 : 18 : 10-----
Now that my power usage is reduced, how low can I/should I go? 450W ?

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shakran

were I building today, biz, that's probably the one I'd get. Nice board and a very nice price.

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, but not that it's going to help him any more against me in L4D....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

shakran

I advise on technical aspects of hardware. I cannot help people on the subject of skill. Especially since I have next to none myself

biznatch

Heheh. Considering I'm presently playing L4D on a year old $500 laptop, with a Geforce go 6100...I think anything is an improvement. All that Boomer puke will look more beautiful.

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Baraka_Guru

Is that so? Wow. I think the biggest difference you'll find, though, is that the Witch is actually kinda hot....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lasereth

That is a good motherboard.

You will need 400-450w from a quality PSU.

This is what I would get (I actually have this at home, running 3 hard drives, GeForce 8800 GT, dual core CPU, etc.): Newegg.com - Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX12V Power Supply - Power Supplies

Though you could get this: Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply - Power Supplies

Or this: Newegg.com - PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS500 500W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies

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biznatch

Here's the current setup:

MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-EP43-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard $79.99


CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8500 $187.99


GPU: EVGA 512-P3-N975-AR GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card $129.99


PSU:
Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX12V Power Supply $40.99


RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL6D-4GBNQ $44.99


HDD:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive $54.99


DVD Burner: SAMSUNG 20X DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model TS-H653N - OEM $22.99



Grand Total: $574.73
Anything wrong with these choices?

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MikeSty

I've gotta say, from my experience, that looks pretty solid. Man, I love watching everyone from TFP put their heads together and pop something out.

Definitely a wise choice to avoid SLI on a budget. IIRC, it's only really super amazing and worth the money if you have a very large display or series of displays. But I'm way out of the loop.

Zweiblumen

I recently had a (still) unexplained failure of my main computer. Due to how old it was a couple of parts had to be replaced to getting up and running. Following components were replaced on very thight budget : MB, CPU, RAM, HD, DVD and GPU .
I went with a Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66 Ghz (I got lucky with price since it was "old") and sofar it has been sufficent for me. I'm not much of a gamer but I have SQL server and some other strange things running on my system.
So you might save a few bucks by getting cheaper CPU, a 2.8 Ghz sounds good to me :-)
But plan on getting aftermarket cooler for your CPU, Intel stock coolers are notourious for being loud.

Yours
Zweiblumen

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Lasereth

That is one hell of a computer. Good choices all around.

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biznatch

Glad to hear. Thinking it through for a couple more days to see if I can tweak it a tiny bit, and planning for cables, fans, and air dynamics.
Thanks so much, guys.
I might add a sticker on the case that says "Engineered by team TFP."
Pictures will come.
-----Added 10/1/2009 at 04 : 35 : 40-----
After briefly looking into whether a micro ATX could suffice, I think it's safest to go full sized ATX, since I'll need a Wireless card, and maybe a slot for a sound card in the future, in case I decide to go the Home Theater, 5.1 way. OK. I must say I'm totally psyched, since it's the first proper up to date gaming PC I'll have.

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