Looking to build a good gaming PC (on a budget) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Esoteric · 09-08-2008, 05:43 AM

Hey guys, I'm looking to build a good gaming PC for the upcoming MMO Warhammer Online. I'm really looking to just upgrade the whole tower itself (case, HD, mobo, etc.) I've currently got a good Dell LCD monitor and I'm set on a keyboard/mouse for now. I'm looking to spend between $500-700, but I don't have all of the money at the moment. What I was looking to do was get the parts little by little if I could get away with it. I've never put something like this together so I'm a complete newb when it comes to this. Would I be able to take all of the parts to a local computer shop and have them set it all up for me?

I'm not against using Vista if I have to unless it would be a better choice to use XP. I know I still have my XP discs from this Dell somewhere, heh. Anyway, the minimum system requirements are below for both XP/Vista and I'm just looking to be able to run the game at solid performance without spending a crazy amount of money. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer Online

PC SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

For Windows XP

· 2.5 GHz P4 (single core) processor or equivalent
· 1 Gigabyte RAM
· A 128 MB Video Card, with support for Pixel Shader 2.0
· At least 15 GB of hard drive space

For Windows VISTA

· 2.5 GHz P4 processor or equivalent
· 2 Gigabyte RAM
· A 128 MB Video Card, with support for Pixel Shader 2.0
· At least 15 GB of hard drive space

Supported Video Cards

ATI Radeon(TM) series

· 9500, 9600, 9800
· X300, X600, X700, X800, X850
· X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900, X1950
· 2400, 2600, 2900,
· 3650, 3850, 3870
· 4850, 4870

NVIDIA GeForce series

· FX 5900, FX 5950
· 6600, 6800,
· 7600, 7800, 7900, 7950
· 8400, 8500, 8600, 8800
· 9400, 9500, 9600, 9800
· GTX 260, GTX 280

Wyodiver33 · 09-08-2008, 08:49 AM

In my opinion, at least go with an Intel Core 2, 2 GB RAM, an nVidia 8800GT, etc. Get a good case and a quality power supply. You really don't have to break the bank. Just do a lot of research. I only buy online from newegg. I'm totally anti-Vista but eventually we will all have to bite the MS bullet and adopt Vista, so that's up to you. Hope this helps a bit.

Lasereth · 09-08-2008, 09:43 AM

Since you don't have a lot of experience building PCs I have to recommend a Dell. Their new Vostro series is really cheap. You can get one with a Core 2 Duo E7200 2.5 GHz, 3 GB of ram, 250 GB hard drive and DVD burner for $400. Then buy a GeForce 8800 GT from NewEgg and you'll be at $520 total for an absolutely blistering PC except without all of the hassle of building your own.

http://www.dell.com/content/products...740&lid=678195

Start there to begin customizing the Vostro 200 if you're interested (you will have to delete the monitor from the system to get the price down).

Plaid13 · 09-09-2008, 11:04 AM

Well I would have to disagree with lasereth simply because upgrading a dell isnt worth the trouble in the future.

I disagree with getting a intel core 2 as well but not because of performance. Go with a AMD dual core if your on a tight budget. For a budget rig you wont be getting the best of anything so the little bonus intels best chips have are not worth the extra cost for the little performance.

I personaly just built a new budget game system out of realizing how dated my old stuff was. Kept my case and hard drives and dvd drive though.

My personal build i went with
Asus m3a78 pro motherboard. Asus seems to make some quality stuff. second asus and it went together easy. Was $94 at new egg.

EVGA nvidia 8800gt 512mb akimbo video card. dual slot card better cooling hopefully will last longer and run cooler. But EVGA has lifetime warrenty So good deal there. New egg had it on sale for $124 after a mail in rebate

AMD 6000+ dual core. Stock heatsink/fan it comes with its excellent! came with the thermal goo stuck to it already just snapped it down on the processor on the board and that was that. Runs at idle at 27C and under load at 40C 3ghz dual core cant really go wrong for $95 on new egg.

OCZ 700 watt gamextreame power supply Was $99 after a mail in rebate from tiger direct. Got mine from the local warehouse outlet but its the same on the website just have to pay a few bucks for shipping too.

Corsair 2gig dual channel xms2 ddr2 6400 ram Its nothing fancy but its gotten good reviews and has a fast response time and all that good stuff. has the fancy new fangled cooling fin deal going on but i dont overclock anything so i couldnt care less. but the best part 2 gig dual channel ram good brand for $27 after mail in rebate. You might want to get two pairs of this stuff 4 gig of ram is happy and if you run vista you want 4 gig of ram It eats up memory.

Im using a coolermaster centurian case its 3 years old and i got it for like $35 from new egg back then. Wonderful case though. stuck a decent 120mm fan for exhaust in the back a 80mm fan intake on the side and another on the front. Keeps everything nice and cool even with low rpm fans that make almost no noise.

Get yourself a good SATA hard drive. I suggest western digital or seagate Pretty sure you can pick up one with 600-750gig for under a hundred dollars.

For dvd drives i have used a liteon dvd burner and a sony dvd drive for 3 years now. both were dirt cheap back then and both have worked flawlessly. Burned hundreds of dvds very fast without any problems. Only problems burning dvds comes from the blank media. Doubt your in need of that for a gaming rig but verbatim has made high quality stuff and hasnt failed me yet.

this system is only a few days old but the brands are good and i trust it will last. It runs the games i play perfectly and its fast. It could use another 2 gig of ram but... it was a spur of the moment build and i really cant afford to spend more.

You most likely wont be able to use your old windows xp dell install. Pretty sure dell alters the oem disks they send out to only work with the dell hardware and they add some extra stuff. But new egg you can buy a fresh copy of xp or vista for around $100 and it will be all legal instead of trying to get past the oem regulations of the old xp copy from the dell. Not supposed to use that copy on anything but the orignal machine.

Personaly i would go with vista 64 but only if you plan to get at least 4 gig of ram. XP is less buggy but vista is what everything is moving to. directx10 and all that. Buying a new copy of xp when you will most likely want to update to vista soon seems like a waste. Think most of the complaints about vista are mostly because of it lacking drivers for older hardware and the way it uses so much ram. So with new hardware and plenty of ram i dont think it will be much of a problem. That being said... i still use xp but i didnt have to buy a new copy if i did i would have gone to vista 64.

Should be about the budget your looking for and have plenty of room to upgrade in the future. Motherboard can be upgraded to a quad core when you have the money to spend or the price comes down. Video card is set for a while i think and the power supply has more then enough power to supply pretty much anything you throw at it. You could make it cheaper if you go with other lesser known brands but you never know what you get with other brands.

whatever you decide on i suggest you do a ton of research on anything you plan to buy. Read lots of forums and reviews on the parts. Keep in mind electronics do fail and can be damaged by tons of things. shipping can shake things up static can fry parts. it happens with even the best brands. So if you find a brand that has a good return and replacement policy. For instance i went with ocz for the power supply after reading the forums on there site. people complain about the product they pretty much instantly say ok we will send you a new one.

If you do decide to go with a intel processor They are good and do get faster then the AMDs do right now but you will pay twice as much for it. Not ideal for a budget rig. Unless you really want top of the line at any cost go for a AMD.

Lasereth · 09-09-2008, 11:45 AM

That is definitely a good system for the price but he said he has never put a PC together before. If you don't have a lot of experience it can be a daunting task, especially if 1 component comes DOA which is highly likely (even from NewEgg). The PC you specced out is at least $700 before shipping using your prices and isn't as good as the Dell I specced out for $520. Yours is definitely more upgradeable, but the Dell would be partially upgradeable anyway (CPU, videocard, memory are always upgradeable), he might just have to put in a $40 or so power supply in it down the road if he wants a more powerful system.

Plus a Dell comes with a 1-year warranty for free, is unbelievably easy to get all of the drivers for, and has a huge support base in case anything goes wrong. And it will be stable. And all of the parts will work together without BSODing or crashing or being finicky.

Cynthetiq · 09-09-2008, 12:19 PM

I'm lazy and with lasereth... I'd go dell for the lazy factor.

if not...

if you have any computer flea markets in your neck of the woods, go there and see if there is any small vendor that will be able to take your specs and build them for you. you'll pay a small premium ($50 for the build) but you can also have some warranties and guarantees of a neighborhood shop to bring it to when parts fail. Most are competitive to newegg prices...

Dibbler · 09-09-2008, 02:43 PM

Do a Dell but just buy the basic computer and add the parts like memory and video card once it's home. Dell charges too much for the parts and they tend to be the cheap versions. The only problem is that you won't be able to upgrade the video card with the newest best thing due to crappy power supplies the have in them. The Dell I have has about a 300 watt power supply and I got an X1950 GT to run fine but later I bought an ATI HD3870 and it was a "no go". Ended up building a computer from scratch around the card.

Another approach: Find a cheap refurb Acer on Woot.com or wherever and just upgrade parts till it's what you want. The Acer's are full of "off the shelf" components so it's just a matter of picking the part to upgrade and heading over to newegg and looking for deals. I did this approach too and it was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about computers and how to get the best deals for parts online.

Good luck. Oh and go AMD and ATI for processors and video. They are much better deals and are really nice stuff. Vista is great too. Not nearly as bad as the "haters" say.

Wyodiver33 · 09-09-2008, 05:58 PM

Might want to think about an AMD X3 CPU. They have 3 cores. Ususlly not as fast as an Intel Core 2 but cheaper.

Plaid13 · 09-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Yeah a dell is fine if you dont want to build your own but it sounded like he wanted to. Its really not all that hard to do if you know whats what in a computer as far as what each part does. following instructions is pretty easy and all the stuff i listed had good instructions. I was self taught put my first pc together without any problems its not that tough to figure out. Not to mention i just feel dirty suggesting anyone buy a dell for gaming if they have any interest in building there own. Big thing with what i listed is you can swap in a quad core without any hassle at all. And you can pick your case to look like what you want Some people just really need a $800 night light. Not sure why.

Build your own its a chance to learn more about computers. A little extra knowledge never hurts.

Cynthetiq · 09-09-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyodiver33

Might want to think about an AMD X3 CPU. They have 3 cores. Ususlly not as fast as an Intel Core 2 but cheaper.

Hands-On Review of AMD?s New X3 Tri Core | Maximum PC

Quote:

There are two ways to look at AMD’s new tri-core. The first: Why would I buy a tri core when I can get a quad core? The second (the one that AMD would prefer you use): Why buy a dual when I can get a tri?

That’s the fine line AMD is trying to walk with its tri-core 2.4GHz Phenom X3 8750 proc. It can’t fight Intel’s quads head on, but it’s hoping that people who are considering dual-core procs will see the value in having one more core.

Of course, that was all before Intel slashed prices on its quad-core procs. On April 20, Intel cut the prices of two of its elderly quad cores. The 2.66GHz Core 2 Quad Q6700’s price dropped from $530 to $266 when purchased in bulk. The real trouble for AMD, however, is the 2.4GHz Core 2 Quad Q6600, which took a 16 percent price cut to $224. Just two months ago, the chip was priced at $299. With prices for the Q6600 already dropping to $224, this budget quad core will likely be available for $200 in a few weeks.

With that in mind, we fired up AMD’s X3 on an Asus M3A32-MVP with 2GB of Dominator RAM at 1,066MHz data rates, a 150GB WD Raptor, Windows XP SP2, and a GeForce 9800GX2 GPU. For comparison, we populated a new 45nm Penryn Core 2 Quad Q9300 and a Core 2 Quad Q6600 in an EVGA nForce 790i Ultra motherboard with the same GeForce GX2, WD 150GB Raptor, and Windows XP. The nForce 790i Ultra board features DDR3. Some will argue that the inability to run DDR3 is not Intel’s fault—it’s AMD’s. There is simply no way to run DDR3 on AMD chips right now. And while we could have tested the Intel chips using DDR2, we felt that it wouldn’t be fair to the Intel chips. Instead, we represent the chips on the best platforms available. DDR3, while exotic at the intoxicating high speeds of 1,800MHz and 2,000MHz, is almost affordable at 1,333MHz.

The chip itself should be familiar to AMD fans. It’s a 2.4GHz CPU with the same cache sizes as AMD’s top gun, the 2.5GHz Phenom X4 9850. Each core in the Phenom line features its own 512KB of L2, and all three cores share 2MB of L3 cache. As a 50-series chip, it’s free of the TLB errata that the original Phenoms had. All retail versions of the X3 series will be free of the TLB bug that hurts performance. AMD, however, is selling OEM-only tri-cores that still have the bug.

So how does the tri core stack up? Basically, it’s a quad core with one core turned off. From a practical standpoint, that means it’ll perform right between quads and dual cores. In most games, which generally aren’t optimized for quad cores, it’ll run with the quads. In most encoding applications, including video editing and other quad-optimized applications, it’ll attain roughly 75 percent of the performance of a quad-core Phenom and will definitely be slower than any of Intel’s quads. In other words, it’s not a bad performer in the context of where it’s being wedged.

Price, rather than performance, will probably be the deciding factor for anyone considering an X3. And that’s where AMD has a problem. With Intel putting incredible pricing pressure on AMD these days, the prices for AMD’s processors are incredibly compressed, so it probably doesn’t make sense to buy a tri core. At least not the top-end CPU. AMD’s fastest CPU, the 2.5GHz Phenom X4 9850 costs $235. The new 2.4GHz X3 8705 costs $195. Even more confusing, the 2.2GHz Phenom X4 9550 quad core also costs $195.

Of course, the big question is: What will Intel do in the coming weeks? With its preemptive price cut on the 2.4GHz Core 2 Quad Q6600, the price of that chip at retail outlets drops literally every day we’ve checked this week. If the Q6600 pushes into the $190 range, the X3 doesn’t become competitive until you hit the 2.3GHz Phenom X3 8650 at $165.

This doesn’t factor in overclocking results, as everyone’s mileage will vary with overclocking. We can at least say that AMD’s 50 series B3 cores overclock fairly well. We pushed a 2.5GHz X4 9750 to 3GHz on air cooling, similar results should be expected from the X3s.

There’s also the issue of software compatibility. Fortunately, it’s likely a miniscule problem. However, it’s enough of an issue that AMD decided to inform benchtesters that certain test applications that don’t work correctly with tri cores. Some simply don’t work, while others don’t perform as expected because of sloppy coding that allows them to run on only one, two or four cores.

What should you buy? Ultimately, that’s up to you. If performance is king, you should avoid tri core and go straight to a quad. If you’re on the fence between a dual and a tri, we would take a tri-core Phenom over a dual-core Athlon 64 any day of the week, but up against an Intel Core 2 Duo, it gets a little trickier. We’ll visit that subject in a future story

why bother???? either save the $$$ and put it into some other parts, or just get a quad for the lengevity and performance.

Esoteric · 09-18-2008, 02:00 PM

Thanks for all the help thus far guys, but I don't really want a Dell again this time around. I think I've decided that I'm going to get a PC from CyberPowerPC once I've saved the money. Anyone have any experience dealing with them? I've been able to build some nice PC's on their site for a little over $700.

I'd like to be able to just build a PC part by part but I really have zero experience, and I'd rather not have to run into the whole DOA issue that a couple of you mentioned.

Lasereth · 09-19-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Thanks for all the help thus far guys, but I don't really want a Dell again this time around. I think I've decided that I'm going to get a PC from CyberPowerPC once I've saved the money. Anyone have any experience dealing with them? I've been able to build some nice PC's on their site for a little over $700.

I'd like to be able to just build a PC part by part but I really have zero experience, and I'd rather not have to run into the whole DOA issue that a couple of you mentioned.

Post the builds here before you buy it!

Cynthetiq · 09-19-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric

Thanks for all the help thus far guys, but I don't really want a Dell again this time around. I think I've decided that I'm going to get a PC from CyberPowerPC once I've saved the money. Anyone have any experience dealing with them? I've been able to build some nice PC's on their site for a little over $700.

I'd like to be able to just build a PC part by part but I really have zero experience, and I'd rather not have to run into the whole DOA issue that a couple of you mentioned.

no comp flea markets near you? sometimes they will build right in front of you at the show. You get to watch and hang and ask questions.

I've seen some build on the vendor bench to make sure that no DOA parts show up, since sometimes the vendors from flea markets are far away.

Esoteric · 09-19-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Post the builds here before you buy it!

Sure thing, but I don't see me having all the money saved until end of December or beginning of January.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

no comp flea markets near you? sometimes they will build right in front of you at the show. You get to watch and hang and ask questions.

I've seen some build on the vendor bench to make sure that no DOA parts show up, since sometimes the vendors from flea markets are far away.

There's a few flea markets around here that I know of, but they're not completely dedicated to computers. I don't even know if they would have any hardware at all. I'm assuming when you say 'computer flea market' you mean one just dedicated for computing though right? >_>

Cynthetiq · 09-19-2008, 12:36 PM

yes ones dedicated to just computers and computer products. I dont' see any listed in Florida at the moment, but I have been to a couple of them in FL.

Plaid13 · 09-20-2008, 03:41 PM

In the time it takes you to save money to buy it maybe you should do some research and learn how to build it yourself. Even if you still have someone else do it for you at least then you would know whats what and how things work once you do get the new pc.

Baraka_Guru · 09-26-2008, 07:02 AM

Okay, I just got WoW a few weeks ago....

Just last night I had my first night off after a busy spell, so I wanted to play a few hours of WoW. My computer went kaput!

The system is going on it's 4th year, so I think it might be worthwhile just to replace it rather than repair it. It must be the motherboard or the HD, as it won't boot despite there being power. I don't think it's the OS because it had problems booting up the day before, but the OS worked fine when it did.

Now no booty....

Anyway, I figured this was a good thread to post my dilemma. If I get a computer, it will be for gaming only. I want a cheap system, but one that can play games like WoW, and maybe newer games on low to moderate graphics settings. (I'm not picky...just frugal.)

Here's a sampling of what I'm looking at (based on what I read in this thread):

Dell.ca:

Vostro 200, Intel Core2 Duo CPU E6550 (2.33GHz, 1333FSB, 4MB L2)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic,SP1, with media,32 Edition
3GB DDR2 SDRAM 800MHZ - 2X1GB+2X512MB 3GB800
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 GMA3100
Single Drive: 16X DVD+/-RW Drive 16XDVDR
Dell 17 inch Widescreen E178WFP Analog Flat Panel Monitor

$669+tax/shipping (Save $190)

[I can add an EGA 8800 GT for around $200.]

Tiger Direct.ca:

CybertronPC X-Cruiser 3600BK

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ 2.6GHz Dual Core Processor
Foxconn K8M890M2MB-RS2H Motherboard
2048 (2GB) DDR II 667MHz PC5400 Memory
160GB SATA2 7,200 RPM Hard Drive
22X DVD±RW Burner Dual Layer Drive
nVidia GeForce 8500GT 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express Video Graphics Card
6 Channel High Definition onboard sound
X-CRUISER Mid Tower with 400 Watt Power Supply
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic 32-Bit

$731.96+tax/shipping

Visionman Intel Gaming PC

Intel Pentium Dual Core E2180 2.0GHz Processor
2GB High-Speed DDR2-800 Memory
Western Digital 250GB SATA-2 Hard Drive
20X Dual-Layer DVDRW w/Lightscribe
NVIDIA 8600GT 512MB PCIe DX10 Video Card
Onboard AC ’97 8-Channel Audio
585 Watt High-Efficiency Power Supply
Windows Vista

$683.99+tax/shipping

What's the lowdown? I don't want to build my own system, but I don't mind going to Tiger Direct to get them to do it for me. They're located a short drive north of Toronto. Also, Toronto has "Computer Alley" just north of where I work within reasonable walking distance.

Is going into a local computer shop and asking them to build from a list reasonable?

I'm new to this. I normally buy prefab machines. I want to play less than $750+tax if I can, which is why I might forego the Dell idea.

Radio Monk33 · 09-26-2008, 09:27 AM

Ugh, stay away from that Intel 3100 integrated..that's what they put in underpowered laptops for video acceleration. The 8600GT is okay, but really moving towards the low end. On NCIX.com I've seen 8800's for 100$ or so, I recommend moving up to that at the minimum for a desktop. It looks like the GPU will be the chokepoint in all those builds imho. Also, depending on how much RAM you're putting in your PC, you should consider the Vista OS you choose. 32 bit operating systems can only recognize a certain amount of RAM (2-2.5 I think?)

Zweiblumen · 09-26-2008, 12:45 PM

Physical memory limit in XP and VISTA (32 bit ) is 4 GB. Each process can only use 2 GB (generally). Server OS can use more memory upto 128 GB.

Yours
ZB

Lasereth · 09-26-2008, 12:48 PM

I would get the Dell and then buy an 8800 GT from NewEgg for a little over $100.

Baraka_Guru · 09-26-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I would get the Dell and then buy an 8800 GT from NewEgg for a little over $100.

Newegg.ca hasn't launched yet. The best I can see so far is CDN$130 for a PNY XLR8 GeForce 8800 GT. That's at Tiger Direct, but I might find something cheaper in Computer Alley in Toronto.

Update:
Here's what I'm eying-up right now:

Dell Vostro 410

Intel® Core™2 Quad Proc Q6600 (2.40GHz,2X4M L2Cache,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic SP1
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM 800MHz - 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
1 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 1 Year NBD Onsite Service
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 GT
Single Drive: 16X (DVD+/-RW) Burner Drive, Roxio Creator™ 16XDVDR
No Monitor

CDN$779 (save $370) + tax + free shipping

I think this looks like a great deal, especially coming from Dell. What do you guys think? Please get to me soon, because my finger is on the trigger on this one.

This is one of the few models from Dell that offered an 8800 GT upgrade option, and the quad core was standard. It's also one of the few models that currently has as much at $370 knocked off the price!

Personally I'd rather pay the extra $180 to have the 8800 GT come loaded than have to go through the hassle of finding one as low as $120 and then go through the worry and hassle of installing it myself. A $50 hassle-avoidance/installation charge is fine by me. That is, if I found a card that cheap in the Toronto marketplace. I'm fine with that.

Does this look good, or am I just jonesing after my first new gaming PC since 2005? (And my first multi-core game machine, and my first PCI-E graphics card, etc., etc.)

EDIT: I should also note that the Vostro uses the Intel G33 motherboard. Is this a consideration as well? I'm not sure about the differences between motherboards when it comes to gaming.

Plaid13 · 09-29-2008, 01:58 AM

Said it before and i will say it again... if you want a gaming rig and you want it to last and be something you can upgrade for years... just build it yourself or have someone else build it for you. start with a fresh install of windows HP/dell and places like that tend to load in a lot of extra stuff that run in the background. Normally stuff like automatic update stuff and crap like that you really dont need. Easy enough to just update your software when you want. A good chunk of performance in gaming is lost due to extra crap running in the background.

If your on a tight budget AMD is the way to go right now. Basicly half the price as the intel processors. Get a higher end amd instead of a mid line intel and save yourself some money. You want at least 2 gig of ram for a gaming system. 2 is enough still but in a year or so you will want more. Get 4 gig or more if your going to run vista.

Its well worth learning how to build it yourself if you dont already know how to do it. Save yourself a fortune if anything ever goes wrong in the future because you will know how to fix it.

If you do get a dell or something then upgrade the video card make sure the power supply in it has the right connetion type for the higher end video cards. might also want to make sure you get a card that has a heat exhaust out the back of the case instead of just blowing it into the case. Not sure how good the ventaliation is in them so better to be safe then sorry.

Frosstbyte · 09-29-2008, 01:50 PM

I'd only pop in to say that you're safer (and your gaming experience is safer) if you buy a retail video card and install it yourself. Big box computer manufacturers are notorious for using bulk, discount video cards which have the same name and number as retail cards, but are missing parts to save time, which will cost you performance. Installing a video card is really easy, compared to a lot of things in the world of computers, and it's probably worth it.

Lasereth · 09-29-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Newegg.ca hasn't launched yet. The best I can see so far is CDN$130 for a PNY XLR8 GeForce 8800 GT. That's at Tiger Direct, but I might find something cheaper in Computer Alley in Toronto.

Update:
Here's what I'm eying-up right now:

Dell Vostro 410

Intel® Core™2 Quad Proc Q6600 (2.40GHz,2X4M L2Cache,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic SP1
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM 800MHz - 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
1 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 1 Year NBD Onsite Service
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800 GT
Single Drive: 16X (DVD+/-RW) Burner Drive, Roxio Creator™ 16XDVDR
No Monitor

CDN$779 (save $370) + tax + free shipping

I think this looks like a great deal, especially coming from Dell. What do you guys think? Please get to me soon, because my finger is on the trigger on this one.

This is one of the few models from Dell that offered an 8800 GT upgrade option, and the quad core was standard. It's also one of the few models that currently has as much at $370 knocked off the price!

Personally I'd rather pay the extra $180 to have the 8800 GT come loaded than have to go through the hassle of finding one as low as $120 and then go through the worry and hassle of installing it myself. A $50 hassle-avoidance/installation charge is fine by me. That is, if I found a card that cheap in the Toronto marketplace. I'm fine with that.

Does this look good, or am I just jonesing after my first new gaming PC since 2005? (And my first multi-core game machine, and my first PCI-E graphics card, etc., etc.)

EDIT: I should also note that the Vostro uses the Intel G33 motherboard. Is this a consideration as well? I'm not sure about the differences between motherboards when it comes to gaming.

I know this is late but that is a great PC and it is totally worth it to not go through the hassle of building it yourself and having to worry about RMAs and BSODs.

Frosstbyte · 09-29-2008, 03:04 PM

This is kind of a threadjack, but I don't really think another thread with almost exactly the same title (though different content) was really worth it for anyone.

I am also in the market for a new computer, and I am very serious about wanting to build it myself. Those dells are pretty good deals, but damn if they don't look like a horse's ass, and, for as much as I use a computer, I feel like I should be able to muck about in one much more than I can now.

Does anyone have any advice on where to go to learn how to do this or what I should expect?

Baraka_Guru · 09-29-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I know this is late but that is a great PC and it is totally worth it to not go through the hassle of building it yourself and having to worry about RMAs and BSODs.

Thanks for the encouragement. I already ordered it, but it's nice to know I wasn't out of my mind on the decision.

I do understand where the build-it-yourself mentality comes from, and I totally support it. But right now, I'm being lazy and just want a replacement machine. This Dell deal was hard to pass up. I will likely be able to upgrade it quite a bit regarding the RAM, etc., and I will continue to learn a little bit about how the inside of these machines work. (For the first time on my old machine, I had replaced a PSU, a video card, and installed extra fans.)

I did tell myself after placing this Dell order that this would be my last prefab machine. I think I just might take the leap and build one myself 3 to 5 years down the road.

Thanks for all your help, guys, this thread was useful.

And good luck, Frosstbyte. Totally do it.

Lasereth · 09-29-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

This is kind of a threadjack, but I don't really think another thread with almost exactly the same title (though different content) was really worth it for anyone.

I am also in the market for a new computer, and I am very serious about wanting to build it myself. Those dells are pretty good deals, but damn if they don't look like a horse's ass, and, for as much as I use a computer, I feel like I should be able to muck about in one much more than I can now.

Does anyone have any advice on where to go to learn how to do this or what I should expect?

I had a friend help me build my first PC so I can't really offer any cool websites or guides. What I will say is that building a PC is two parts: 1. choosing all of the components and making sure they're compatible with each other, and 2. plugging it all up and hoping it works.

Yes, I said hoping it works because when you're ordering custom parts from a reseller there is a small (but substantial) chance a part will arrive DOA (dead on arrival). If a part you order does arrive DOA you can return it but expect a major headache when building the PC until you figure out which part is dead. For example: you order all the parts, you put it together, press the power button and it turns on but the screen is black. So, is your motherboard set to onboard video and you're trying to use a videocard? Is the motherboard PCI-E slot bad and you get no video signal? Is the videocard bad because you get no signal? Is the CPU bad so the PC won't even boot properly? Is the memory bad causing the system to not boot? Is the monitor bad? The cable bad? Your power supply not giving the videocard enough power?

I don't mean to scare you but this is the type of stuff you deal with when building a custom PC so don't be surprised if an event like this happens. The good thing is that there is lots of knowledge about custom PCs on the Internet. The TFP could help you put the PC together even as long as you had Internet access while building it.

The pros of building a PC: picking out the parts is fun if you know what you're looking for, putting it together and having immense satisfaction that you completed a highly technical task yourself and it is working great, saving money (though not much nowadays) over a pre-built PC, the PC will look way cooler than a store-bought PC, you learn a lot about computer hardware, PC is way more upgradeable than a pre-built PC

The cons: parts may come DOA and take time and effort to replace, troubleshooting the PC after it is put together is troublesome depending on a multitude of problems that may arise, having to make sure that every component is compatible with each other

In the end I would recommend it if you haven't did it before but don't expect it to work perfectly (though it most definitely could, I've built approximately 50 custom PCs and about half go together first try without a hitch).

Vigilante · 09-29-2008, 07:36 PM

If you want to find the best parts, overclockers.com forums will guide you on the right parts. Overclockers Forums. If you go there, be prepared to do 90% of the learning using the search function, and the rest is educated posts. If you go in saying "HEY how much artic silver should I put on the CPU??" then you haven't done your homework and may be treated as such. You will do some work, but the knowledge you gain will stay with you forever. Those guys (and at xtremesystems) test the everliving shit out of parts routinely, including soldering new resistors on voltage reg circuits and such to bring speeds far out of spec, along with other insane behavior. I do some of this myself, but that's for another day

. Anyways, point is they test so much crap that the parts they buy will almost certainly run for you very nicely at stock or slightly overclocked speeds, but there again, do your homework

The good thing about PCs is you almost can't put something into the wrong socket. I say almost, because I've seen people actually bend the motherboard to force ram in backwards, and when it booted they fried the platform parts (cpu, ram, mobo).

DOA and warranty items happen, but if you deal with a site like newegg, you never regret it. I've worked with newegg so many times, and have even been allowed to return parts outside of the 30 day return policy. You just need to get a rep on the phone (always talk to a person, they listen - no email) and they will work with you. On a tangent, for OEM upgrades such as that dell, MemoryX.Net has always worked with me, to the extreme. I've even swapped out ram in a server 2 years later with them, and that was over compatibility issues, not dead parts! 2 years! Those are my experiences, others will have their own favorite vendors, of course.

Anyways, several of us here can help you pick out parts too. I'm an active overclocker and watercooler, and I focus on maximum speed over the long term generally, as opposed to the LN2 guys that prefer to break records. I'm also a big DIY guy, especially on the hardware side. One way or another, you'll learn whatever you want to know

Frosstbyte · 09-30-2008, 12:17 PM

So I started checking out Overclocker's forums just to see what was there, and I immediately got sidetracked by the extreme modding and cooling forums. Those people are up to some absolutely ZANY shit! But cool.

Vigilante · 09-30-2008, 01:02 PM

Very fun stuff, and if you try overclocking, you'll always pay less and end up with a CPU speed that the market can't even begin to offer, such as my Q6600 running at a cool 3.6GHz under a waterblock

Frosstbyte · 09-30-2008, 07:00 PM

While I would eventually love to embark on that journey, I think I'm going to have to wait and get a bit more experience first. Let's go with building one before we start modding one.

Esoteric · 02-05-2009, 10:57 AM

Ok so I'm expecting to get a larger tax return than I had initially planned so my budget has increased a bit. I was on cyberpowerpc.com and configured this and would like to know what you guys think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPowerPC

# CASE: ($20 Mail-in Rebate) Apevia X-SniperG Mid-Tower 420W Case (Black Color)
# Neon Light Upgrade: NONE
# Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans
# POWER SUPPLY Upgrade: 500 Watts Power Supplies (**Recommended** WIN-500XSPX APEVIA 500W JAVA Power Supply-Black)
# CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8400 CPU @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
# COOLING FAN : INTEL LGA775 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
# MOTHERBOARD: MSI G31M-F Intel G31 Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard
# MEMORY: 4GB (2GBx2) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
# FREEBIES: None
# VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Powered by NVIDIA)
# VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
# VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
# LCD Monitor: NONE
# 2nd Monitor: NONE
# HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
# Data Hard Drive: NONE
# USB PORTABLE DRIVE: NONE
# Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
# Optical Drive 2: NONE
# SOUND: Creative Labs SB Audigy SE
# SPEAKERS: 600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers
# NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
# MODEM: NONE
# KEYBOARD: NONE
# MOUSE: NONE
# Extra Thermal Display : NONE
# Wireless 802.11B/G Network Card: NONE
# Flash Media Reader/Writer: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
# Cable Wiring: None
# Rounded Cable: None
# VIDEO CAMERA: NONE
# PRINTER: None
# PRINTER CABLE: None
# IEEE CARD: NONE
# USB PORT: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
# FLOPPY: NONE
# OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 3
# FREEBIES: None
# Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner: None
# SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT

Total before shipping: $770

If anyone else can give suggestions or can even build a better one from a related site for around the same price please do so. I'm also planning on getting a new keyboard and mouse, but I'll most likely get those separately. I was looking at the G15 for a keyboard and the MX Revolution for the mouse. I've already had hands-on experience with the Revolution and I was impressed.

kutulu · 02-05-2009, 03:15 PM

Make sure the XP version is 64 bit, or switch to Vista Home Premium 64-bit (it is cheaper than XP 32 or 64 bit anyways). 32 bit XP has a 4GB memory limit (not sure if video memory counts towards that total).

highdro69 · 02-05-2009, 07:02 PM

Agreed that you need 64bit for that hot memory action.

Esoteric · 02-06-2009, 11:00 AM

Well CyberPowerPC currently only offers the 32-bit version of XP on their PCs so it looks like I'll have to go with Vista. Switching to Vista Home 64-bit drops the price from $770 to $740 as well. Other than that how are the hardware specs?

kutulu · 02-06-2009, 12:48 PM

I don't know much about the Core 2 processor/motherboard series since I skipped that generation so I can't comment on that. One thing that stands out is the sound card. It retails at about $20. I'm looking at the cyberpower website and I think the MB you selected already has 7.1 audio. Also, the speaker set it comes with retails for about $15. First of all, I'm not a sound guy but I have doubts that a $20 sound card is really going to be much of an upgrade from the onboard sound. Furthermore, even if it is you won't notice it on the speakers that come with it. Definitely ask around but I think you might as well save the $30. Could you afford an extra $40? If so, maybe you could drop the sound card and upgrade the RAM to 8GB.

Did you see if you can get the setup with free shipping? It seems like there are lots of hidden ways to pay more or less depending on what base system you select. Play around with different starting points (including those more and less expensive than what you are looking for) selecting all the same components and make sure you end up with the cheapest final price.

One last thing, CP has a giveaway with Vista, be sure you go here and redeem your gift:

Buy Microsoft, Get More

Esoteric · 02-09-2009, 07:35 AM

Ok so I've been doing some more configuring and I found this rig on CP as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberPower

* CASE: ($20 off Mail-in Rebate) NEW! Apevia X-Jupiter Jr. 420 Watts Case (G Type Metallic Gray Color with Side-Window)
* Neon Light Upgrade: NONE
* Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Default case fans
* POWER SUPPLY Upgrade: 580 Watts Power Supplies (SLI Ready Power Supply)
* CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E8500 CPU @ 3.16GHz 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache 64-bit
* COOLING FAN : XtremeGear Ultra Heatpipe Cool Copper Heatsink CPU Cooling Fan (Extreme Silent at 20dBA & Overclock Proof)
* MOTHERBOARD: EVGA 750 SLI NVIDIA 750i SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
* MEMORY: 4GB (2GBx2) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
* FREEBIES: None
* VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
* VIDEO CARD 2: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
* VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
* MULTIPLE VIDEO CARD SETTINGS: Xtreme Performance in SLI/CrossFireX Gaming Mode Supports Single Monitor
* LCD Monitor: NONE
* 2nd Monitor: NONE
* HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
* Data Hard Drive: NONE
* USB PORTABLE DRIVE: NONE
* Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
* Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLACK COLOR)
* SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
* SPEAKERS: 600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers
* NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
* MODEM: NONE
* KEYBOARD: Logitech Deluxe 104 PS/2 Keyboard (Black Color)
* MOUSE: Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse (BLACK COLOR)
* Extra Thermal Display : NONE
* Wireless 802.11B/G Network Card: PCI Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps Network Interface Card
* Flash Media Reader/Writer: None
* Cable Wiring: None
* Rounded Cable: None
* VIDEO CAMERA: NONE
* PRINTER: None
* PRINTER CABLE: None
* IEEE CARD: NONE
* USB PORT: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
* FLOPPY: NONE
* OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)
* FREEBIES: None
* Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner: None
* SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
* RUSH SERVICE: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS

This PC is $9 more than the one I originally posted and I haven't even changed anything on this one. Though I replaced the dual 9500 GT's for a single 9800 GT 512mb and it raised the price from $779 to $792. This PC seems a hell of a lot better than the other one for a marginal price difference. I really don't know how dual 9500 GT's are in comparison to the other cards out there are though. This is more difficult than I thought, lol. :P

kutulu · 02-09-2009, 09:48 AM

The new configuration has a better processor and GPU. Sounds good to me.

Esoteric · 02-09-2009, 10:10 AM

Awesome, I was thinking that config would be the one I'd buy. My only question is, is it worth it to go with the 9800GT over the dual 9500GT's?

kutulu · 02-09-2009, 11:37 AM

I don't know about the last question. Ask lasereth.

09-08-2008, 08:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Wyodiver33 Just here for the beer. Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Floriduh	In my opinion, at least go with an Intel Core 2, 2 GB RAM, an nVidia 8800GT, etc. Get a good case and a quality power supply. You really don't have to break the bank. Just do a lot of research. I only buy online from newegg. I'm totally anti-Vista but eventually we will all have to bite the MS bullet and adopt Vista, so that's up to you. Hope this helps a bit. __________________ I like stuff.

09-08-2008, 09:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Since you don't have a lot of experience building PCs I have to recommend a Dell. Their new Vostro series is really cheap. You can get one with a Core 2 Duo E7200 2.5 GHz, 3 GB of ram, 250 GB hard drive and DVD burner for $400. Then buy a GeForce 8800 GT from NewEgg and you'll be at $520 total for an absolutely blistering PC except without all of the hassle of building your own. http://www.dell.com/content/products...740&lid=678195 Start there to begin customizing the Vostro 200 if you're interested (you will have to delete the monitor from the system to get the price down). Last edited by Lasereth; 09-08-2008 at 09:47 AM..

09-09-2008, 12:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I'm lazy and with lasereth... I'd go dell for the lazy factor. if not... if you have any computer flea markets in your neck of the woods, go there and see if there is any small vendor that will be able to take your specs and build them for you. you'll pay a small premium ($50 for the build) but you can also have some warranties and guarantees of a neighborhood shop to bring it to when parts fail. Most are competitive to newegg prices... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-09-2008, 05:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
Wyodiver33 Just here for the beer. Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Floriduh	Might want to think about an AMD X3 CPU. They have 3 cores. Ususlly not as fast as an Intel Core 2 but cheaper. __________________ I like stuff.

09-18-2008, 02:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Thanks for all the help thus far guys, but I don't really want a Dell again this time around. I think I've decided that I'm going to get a PC from CyberPowerPC once I've saved the money. Anyone have any experience dealing with them? I've been able to build some nice PC's on their site for a little over $700. I'd like to be able to just build a PC part by part but I really have zero experience, and I'd rather not have to run into the whole DOA issue that a couple of you mentioned. __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

09-09-2008, 11:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	Well I would have to disagree with lasereth simply because upgrading a dell isnt worth the trouble in the future. I disagree with getting a intel core 2 as well but not because of performance. Go with a AMD dual core if your on a tight budget. For a budget rig you wont be getting the best of anything so the little bonus intels best chips have are not worth the extra cost for the little performance. I personaly just built a new budget game system out of realizing how dated my old stuff was. Kept my case and hard drives and dvd drive though. My personal build i went with Asus m3a78 pro motherboard. Asus seems to make some quality stuff. second asus and it went together easy. Was $94 at new egg. EVGA nvidia 8800gt 512mb akimbo video card. dual slot card better cooling hopefully will last longer and run cooler. But EVGA has lifetime warrenty So good deal there. New egg had it on sale for $124 after a mail in rebate AMD 6000+ dual core. Stock heatsink/fan it comes with its excellent! came with the thermal goo stuck to it already just snapped it down on the processor on the board and that was that. Runs at idle at 27C and under load at 40C 3ghz dual core cant really go wrong for $95 on new egg. OCZ 700 watt gamextreame power supply Was $99 after a mail in rebate from tiger direct. Got mine from the local warehouse outlet but its the same on the website just have to pay a few bucks for shipping too. Corsair 2gig dual channel xms2 ddr2 6400 ram Its nothing fancy but its gotten good reviews and has a fast response time and all that good stuff. has the fancy new fangled cooling fin deal going on but i dont overclock anything so i couldnt care less. but the best part 2 gig dual channel ram good brand for $27 after mail in rebate. You might want to get two pairs of this stuff 4 gig of ram is happy and if you run vista you want 4 gig of ram It eats up memory. Im using a coolermaster centurian case its 3 years old and i got it for like $35 from new egg back then. Wonderful case though. stuck a decent 120mm fan for exhaust in the back a 80mm fan intake on the side and another on the front. Keeps everything nice and cool even with low rpm fans that make almost no noise. Get yourself a good SATA hard drive. I suggest western digital or seagate Pretty sure you can pick up one with 600-750gig for under a hundred dollars. For dvd drives i have used a liteon dvd burner and a sony dvd drive for 3 years now. both were dirt cheap back then and both have worked flawlessly. Burned hundreds of dvds very fast without any problems. Only problems burning dvds comes from the blank media. Doubt your in need of that for a gaming rig but verbatim has made high quality stuff and hasnt failed me yet. this system is only a few days old but the brands are good and i trust it will last. It runs the games i play perfectly and its fast. It could use another 2 gig of ram but... it was a spur of the moment build and i really cant afford to spend more. You most likely wont be able to use your old windows xp dell install. Pretty sure dell alters the oem disks they send out to only work with the dell hardware and they add some extra stuff. But new egg you can buy a fresh copy of xp or vista for around $100 and it will be all legal instead of trying to get past the oem regulations of the old xp copy from the dell. Not supposed to use that copy on anything but the orignal machine. Personaly i would go with vista 64 but only if you plan to get at least 4 gig of ram. XP is less buggy but vista is what everything is moving to. directx10 and all that. Buying a new copy of xp when you will most likely want to update to vista soon seems like a waste. Think most of the complaints about vista are mostly because of it lacking drivers for older hardware and the way it uses so much ram. So with new hardware and plenty of ram i dont think it will be much of a problem. That being said... i still use xp but i didnt have to buy a new copy if i did i would have gone to vista 64. Should be about the budget your looking for and have plenty of room to upgrade in the future. Motherboard can be upgraded to a quad core when you have the money to spend or the price comes down. Video card is set for a while i think and the power supply has more then enough power to supply pretty much anything you throw at it. You could make it cheaper if you go with other lesser known brands but you never know what you get with other brands. whatever you decide on i suggest you do a ton of research on anything you plan to buy. Read lots of forums and reviews on the parts. Keep in mind electronics do fail and can be damaged by tons of things. shipping can shake things up static can fry parts. it happens with even the best brands. So if you find a brand that has a good return and replacement policy. For instance i went with ocz for the power supply after reading the forums on there site. people complain about the product they pretty much instantly say ok we will send you a new one. If you do decide to go with a intel processor They are good and do get faster then the AMDs do right now but you will pay twice as much for it. Not ideal for a budget rig. Unless you really want top of the line at any cost go for a AMD.

09-09-2008, 11:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	That is definitely a good system for the price but he said he has never put a PC together before. If you don't have a lot of experience it can be a daunting task, especially if 1 component comes DOA which is highly likely (even from NewEgg). The PC you specced out is at least $700 before shipping using your prices and isn't as good as the Dell I specced out for $520. Yours is definitely more upgradeable, but the Dell would be partially upgradeable anyway (CPU, videocard, memory are always upgradeable), he might just have to put in a $40 or so power supply in it down the road if he wants a more powerful system. Plus a Dell comes with a 1-year warranty for free, is unbelievably easy to get all of the drivers for, and has a huge support base in case anything goes wrong. And it will be stable. And all of the parts will work together without BSODing or crashing or being finicky.

09-09-2008, 02:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dibbler Psycho Location: Initech, Iowa	Do a Dell but just buy the basic computer and add the parts like memory and video card once it's home. Dell charges too much for the parts and they tend to be the cheap versions. The only problem is that you won't be able to upgrade the video card with the newest best thing due to crappy power supplies the have in them. The Dell I have has about a 300 watt power supply and I got an X1950 GT to run fine but later I bought an ATI HD3870 and it was a "no go". Ended up building a computer from scratch around the card. Another approach: Find a cheap refurb Acer on Woot.com or wherever and just upgrade parts till it's what you want. The Acer's are full of "off the shelf" components so it's just a matter of picking the part to upgrade and heading over to newegg and looking for deals. I did this approach too and it was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about computers and how to get the best deals for parts online. Good luck. Oh and go AMD and ATI for processors and video. They are much better deals and are really nice stuff. Vista is great too. Not nearly as bad as the "haters" say.

09-09-2008, 06:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	Yeah a dell is fine if you dont want to build your own but it sounded like he wanted to. Its really not all that hard to do if you know whats what in a computer as far as what each part does. following instructions is pretty easy and all the stuff i listed had good instructions. I was self taught put my first pc together without any problems its not that tough to figure out. Not to mention i just feel dirty suggesting anyone buy a dell for gaming if they have any interest in building there own. Big thing with what i listed is you can swap in a quad core without any hassle at all. And you can pick your case to look like what you want Some people just really need a $800 night light. Not sure why. Build your own its a chance to learn more about computers. A little extra knowledge never hurts.

09-19-2008, 12:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	yes ones dedicated to just computers and computer products. I dont' see any listed in Florida at the moment, but I have been to a couple of them in FL. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-20-2008, 03:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	In the time it takes you to save money to buy it maybe you should do some research and learn how to build it yourself. Even if you still have someone else do it for you at least then you would know whats what and how things work once you do get the new pc.

09-26-2008, 07:02 AM	#17 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Okay, I just got WoW a few weeks ago.... Just last night I had my first night off after a busy spell, so I wanted to play a few hours of WoW. My computer went kaput! The system is going on it's 4th year, so I think it might be worthwhile just to replace it rather than repair it. It must be the motherboard or the HD, as it won't boot despite there being power. I don't think it's the OS because it had problems booting up the day before, but the OS worked fine when it did. Now no booty.... Anyway, I figured this was a good thread to post my dilemma. If I get a computer, it will be for gaming only. I want a cheap system, but one that can play games like WoW, and maybe newer games on low to moderate graphics settings. (I'm not picky...just frugal.) Here's a sampling of what I'm looking at (based on what I read in this thread): Dell.ca: Vostro 200, Intel Core2 Duo CPU E6550 (2.33GHz, 1333FSB, 4MB L2) Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic,SP1, with media,32 Edition 3GB DDR2 SDRAM 800MHZ - 2X1GB+2X512MB 3GB800 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 3100 GMA3100 Single Drive: 16X DVD+/-RW Drive 16XDVDR Dell 17 inch Widescreen E178WFP Analog Flat Panel Monitor $669+tax/shipping (Save $190) [I can add an EGA 8800 GT for around $200.] Tiger Direct.ca: CybertronPC X-Cruiser 3600BK AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ 2.6GHz Dual Core Processor Foxconn K8M890M2MB-RS2H Motherboard 2048 (2GB) DDR II 667MHz PC5400 Memory 160GB SATA2 7,200 RPM Hard Drive 22X DVD±RW Burner Dual Layer Drive nVidia GeForce 8500GT 512MB DDR2 PCI-Express Video Graphics Card 6 Channel High Definition onboard sound X-CRUISER Mid Tower with 400 Watt Power Supply Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic 32-Bit $731.96+tax/shipping Visionman Intel Gaming PC Intel Pentium Dual Core E2180 2.0GHz Processor 2GB High-Speed DDR2-800 Memory Western Digital 250GB SATA-2 Hard Drive 20X Dual-Layer DVDRW w/Lightscribe NVIDIA 8600GT 512MB PCIe DX10 Video Card Onboard AC ’97 8-Channel Audio 585 Watt High-Efficiency Power Supply Windows Vista $683.99+tax/shipping What's the lowdown? I don't want to build my own system, but I don't mind going to Tiger Direct to get them to do it for me. They're located a short drive north of Toronto. Also, Toronto has "Computer Alley" just north of where I work within reasonable walking distance. Is going into a local computer shop and asking them to build from a list reasonable? I'm new to this. I normally buy prefab machines. I want to play less than $750+tax if I can, which is why I might forego the Dell idea. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 09-26-2008 at 07:06 AM..

09-26-2008, 09:27 AM	#18 (permalink)
Radio Monk33 Psycho	Ugh, stay away from that Intel 3100 integrated..that's what they put in underpowered laptops for video acceleration. The 8600GT is okay, but really moving towards the low end. On NCIX.com I've seen 8800's for 100$ or so, I recommend moving up to that at the minimum for a desktop. It looks like the GPU will be the chokepoint in all those builds imho. Also, depending on how much RAM you're putting in your PC, you should consider the Vista OS you choose. 32 bit operating systems can only recognize a certain amount of RAM (2-2.5 I think?) __________________ "Punk rock had this cool, political personal message. It was a bit more cerebral than just stupid cock rock, you know" -Kurt Cobain

09-26-2008, 12:45 PM	#19 (permalink)
Zweiblumen Insane Location: at home	Physical memory limit in XP and VISTA (32 bit ) is 4 GB. Each process can only use 2 GB (generally). Server OS can use more memory upto 128 GB. Yours ZB

09-26-2008, 12:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	I would get the Dell and then buy an 8800 GT from NewEgg for a little over $100.

09-29-2008, 01:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	Said it before and i will say it again... if you want a gaming rig and you want it to last and be something you can upgrade for years... just build it yourself or have someone else build it for you. start with a fresh install of windows HP/dell and places like that tend to load in a lot of extra stuff that run in the background. Normally stuff like automatic update stuff and crap like that you really dont need. Easy enough to just update your software when you want. A good chunk of performance in gaming is lost due to extra crap running in the background. If your on a tight budget AMD is the way to go right now. Basicly half the price as the intel processors. Get a higher end amd instead of a mid line intel and save yourself some money. You want at least 2 gig of ram for a gaming system. 2 is enough still but in a year or so you will want more. Get 4 gig or more if your going to run vista. Its well worth learning how to build it yourself if you dont already know how to do it. Save yourself a fortune if anything ever goes wrong in the future because you will know how to fix it. If you do get a dell or something then upgrade the video card make sure the power supply in it has the right connetion type for the higher end video cards. might also want to make sure you get a card that has a heat exhaust out the back of the case instead of just blowing it into the case. Not sure how good the ventaliation is in them so better to be safe then sorry.

09-29-2008, 01:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	I'd only pop in to say that you're safer (and your gaming experience is safer) if you buy a retail video card and install it yourself. Big box computer manufacturers are notorious for using bulk, discount video cards which have the same name and number as retail cards, but are missing parts to save time, which will cost you performance. Installing a video card is really easy, compared to a lot of things in the world of computers, and it's probably worth it.

09-29-2008, 03:04 PM	#25 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	This is kind of a threadjack, but I don't really think another thread with almost exactly the same title (though different content) was really worth it for anyone. I am also in the market for a new computer, and I am very serious about wanting to build it myself. Those dells are pretty good deals, but damn if they don't look like a horse's ass, and, for as much as I use a computer, I feel like I should be able to muck about in one much more than I can now. Does anyone have any advice on where to go to learn how to do this or what I should expect?

09-29-2008, 07:36 PM	#28 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	If you want to find the best parts, overclockers.com forums will guide you on the right parts. Overclockers Forums. If you go there, be prepared to do 90% of the learning using the search function, and the rest is educated posts. If you go in saying "HEY how much artic silver should I put on the CPU??" then you haven't done your homework and may be treated as such. You will do some work, but the knowledge you gain will stay with you forever. Those guys (and at xtremesystems) test the everliving shit out of parts routinely, including soldering new resistors on voltage reg circuits and such to bring speeds far out of spec, along with other insane behavior. I do some of this myself, but that's for another day . Anyways, point is they test so much crap that the parts they buy will almost certainly run for you very nicely at stock or slightly overclocked speeds, but there again, do your homework The good thing about PCs is you almost can't put something into the wrong socket. I say almost, because I've seen people actually bend the motherboard to force ram in backwards, and when it booted they fried the platform parts (cpu, ram, mobo). DOA and warranty items happen, but if you deal with a site like newegg, you never regret it. I've worked with newegg so many times, and have even been allowed to return parts outside of the 30 day return policy. You just need to get a rep on the phone (always talk to a person, they listen - no email) and they will work with you. On a tangent, for OEM upgrades such as that dell, MemoryX.Net has always worked with me, to the extreme. I've even swapped out ram in a server 2 years later with them, and that was over compatibility issues, not dead parts! 2 years! Those are my experiences, others will have their own favorite vendors, of course. Anyways, several of us here can help you pick out parts too. I'm an active overclocker and watercooler, and I focus on maximum speed over the long term generally, as opposed to the LN2 guys that prefer to break records. I'm also a big DIY guy, especially on the hardware side. One way or another, you'll learn whatever you want to know __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill Last edited by Vigilante; 09-29-2008 at 07:39 PM..

09-30-2008, 12:17 PM	#29 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	So I started checking out Overclocker's forums just to see what was there, and I immediately got sidetracked by the extreme modding and cooling forums. Those people are up to some absolutely ZANY shit! But cool.

09-30-2008, 01:02 PM	#30 (permalink)
Vigilante Broken Arrow Location: US	Very fun stuff, and if you try overclocking, you'll always pay less and end up with a CPU speed that the market can't even begin to offer, such as my Q6600 running at a cool 3.6GHz under a waterblock __________________ We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill

09-30-2008, 07:00 PM	#31 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	While I would eventually love to embark on that journey, I think I'm going to have to wait and get a bit more experience first. Let's go with building one before we start modding one.

02-05-2009, 03:15 PM	#33 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Make sure the XP version is 64 bit, or switch to Vista Home Premium 64-bit (it is cheaper than XP 32 or 64 bit anyways). 32 bit XP has a 4GB memory limit (not sure if video memory counts towards that total).

02-05-2009, 07:02 PM	#34 (permalink)
highdro69 Crazy Location: Tampa Bay, Florida	Agreed that you need 64bit for that hot memory action. __________________ "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

02-06-2009, 11:00 AM	#35 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Well CyberPowerPC currently only offers the 32-bit version of XP on their PCs so it looks like I'll have to go with Vista. Switching to Vista Home 64-bit drops the price from $770 to $740 as well. Other than that how are the hardware specs? __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

02-06-2009, 12:48 PM	#36 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I don't know much about the Core 2 processor/motherboard series since I skipped that generation so I can't comment on that. One thing that stands out is the sound card. It retails at about $20. I'm looking at the cyberpower website and I think the MB you selected already has 7.1 audio. Also, the speaker set it comes with retails for about $15. First of all, I'm not a sound guy but I have doubts that a $20 sound card is really going to be much of an upgrade from the onboard sound. Furthermore, even if it is you won't notice it on the speakers that come with it. Definitely ask around but I think you might as well save the $30. Could you afford an extra $40? If so, maybe you could drop the sound card and upgrade the RAM to 8GB. Did you see if you can get the setup with free shipping? It seems like there are lots of hidden ways to pay more or less depending on what base system you select. Play around with different starting points (including those more and less expensive than what you are looking for) selecting all the same components and make sure you end up with the cheapest final price. One last thing, CP has a giveaway with Vista, be sure you go here and redeem your gift: Buy Microsoft, Get More

02-09-2009, 09:48 AM	#38 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	The new configuration has a better processor and GPU. Sounds good to me.

02-09-2009, 10:10 AM	#39 (permalink)
Esoteric Tired Location: Florida	Awesome, I was thinking that config would be the one I'd buy. My only question is, is it worth it to go with the 9800GT over the dual 9500GT's? __________________ From a head full of pressure rests the senses that I clutch Made a date with Divinity, but she wouldn't let me fuck I got touched by a hazy shaded, God help me change Caught a rush on the floor from the life in my veins

02-09-2009, 11:37 AM	#40 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I don't know about the last question. Ask lasereth.