Bertuzzi re-instated - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

OFKU0 · 08-09-2005, 08:42 AM

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CP) - The NHL has decided the 17 months Todd Bertuzzi was prevented from playing hockey is enough punishment for a punch that may have ended Steve Moore's career, a decision the lawyer for the former Colorado Avalanche player called disappointing.

Commissioner Gary Bettman said Monday Bertuzzi is "immediately eligible" to begin playing hockey. The high-scoring power forward can be in the lineup when the Vancouver Canucks open their season Oct. 5 against the Phoenix Coyotes.

In a 4,500-word ruling, Bettman said he believes Bertuzzi "is genuinely remorseful and apologetic for his actions . . . and the consequences that have flowed from such actions."

But Moore's lawyer Tim Danson said the ruling means Bertuzzi can earn $5.2 million US this year while his client doesn't know if he'll ever play hockey again.

"Steve Moore is disappointed by the decision because he is unable to resume his career and my never resume his NHL career," Danson said in an interview.

"Steve has an uncertain future. He's got health challenges to deal with. While he maintains a very positive attitude . . . at this point he really is in the hands of doctors who will have to make the determination whether or not he will be able to play again."

Danson also denied reports in a Toronto newspaper that a doctor has given Moore medical clearance to play hockey again.

"That statement is significantly false," Danson said.

Canuck GM Dave Nonis said he spoke briefly with Bertuzzi.

"He was in good spirits and was very relieved," Nonis said.

"It's a decision he hoped he would receive."

Bertuzzi's agent Pat Morris didn't immediately return telephone calls.

Hockey Canada has already sent a request to the Canucks that Bertuzzi be available for a Team Canada Olympic training camp next week in Vancouver and Kelowna.

"I'm glad the NHL has finally stepped in and put him back in the game and reinstated him," Wayne Gretzky, Team Canada's executive director, said in an interview. "Nobody condones what Todd did. I'm sure he'd be the first one to tell you it was a mistake.

"But you know it's time to move forward. We will invite him to our training camp. He's an elite player and I expect him to have a great year and be part of Team Canada come February in Italy."

Clips of Bertuzzi stalking Moore down the ice, punching him on the back of the head, then falling on top of him, were shown on television across North America following the March 8, 2004, incident. It became fodder for many to criticize violence in hockey.

Moore was taken off the ice on a stretcher. He suffered fractured vertebrae his neck, cuts and a concussion.

Bertuzzi was given an indefinite suspension that cost him the remaining 13 regular-season games of the 2003-04 season and sidelined him for the Canucks seven-game playoff loss to the Calgary Flames.

He was not allowed to play for Canada in the September 2004 World Cup of Hockey and the May 2005 IIHF world hockey championship. The IIHF respected the NHL's suspension and wouldn't let him play in Europe during last year's NHL lockout.

Financially, the suspension cost Bertuzzi $501,926.39 US in salary, plus $350,000 in endorsement.

A television commercial featuring Bertuzzi was pulled soon after the incident.

Bettman said besides the money, Bertuzzi paid an emotional price.

"After listening to Mr. Bertuzzi and his wife Julie Bertuzzi, I have no doubt that this period of indefinite suspension has been mark by uncertainty, anxiety, stress and emotional pain for the Bertuzzi family," he said.

Bettman said the suspension also "cost the team competitively, resulting in a less favourable 2004 playoff experience than the club otherwise may have achieved."

Danson said Bertuzzi should be suspended for 82 games, the same penalty Marty McSorley received for clubbing Donald Brashear on the head with his stick.

He also rejected the idea Bertuzzi suffered during the lockout.

"I think the lost year shouldn't count," Danson said.

"Steve Moore was unable to play in Europe as well. I don't think it's proportional to the injuries that were suffered by Steve Moore."

Bettman said he realizes that because of the labour dispute, some people may think a 17-month suspension is "inadequate, and not proportionate to suspensions imposed on other players."

"I am comfortable and confident that Mr. Bertuzzi suffered an even more significant impact financially and emotionally during the full term of his suspension," Bettman said.

"There is no one who can suggest that this matter has not already been dealt with in a severe and harsh manner."

He warned Bertuzzi was "on probation" for the 2005-06 season.

"Mr. Bertuzzi is on notice that he will be held strictly accountable to a higher standard than other NHL players for his on-ice conduct during the 2005-06 season," he said.

In December Bertuzzi pleaded guilty to assault causing bodily harm and received a conditional discharge. He was sentenced to a year's probation and 80 hours of community service.

Part of that probation was that Bertuzzi not play hockey or engage "in any other sporting activity involving Mr. Moore as a participant."

Asked about Moore's health, Danson said Moore has improved to the point where he is attempting to train.

"He's trying to get back to where he was," Danson said Monday prior to the announcement. "There's challenges. He's moving along."

"He is determined to make a full recovery and resume his NHL career," Danson added. "However he has suffered very serious injuries and a serious head injury. Even if you make a full recovery by appearances, concussion injuries are a different kind of injury."

Moore has filed a civil suit in Denver naming Bertuzzi, former Canucks forward Brad May, Canucks coach Marc Crawford, former GM Brian Burke and Orca Bay Sports and Entertainment, which owns the team.

Bettman's decision was released the same day that Gretzky announced he was taking over as coach in Phoenix.

Danson wanted the league to delay its decision on Bertuzzi until after Moore had undergone comprehensive medical evaluation at the Cleveland Clinic in June.

The results of that examination won't be known until at least the end of the month.

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca

Personally I think this is a joke. So Bertuzzi missed a year of hockey. Was he the only one? No

And another fine example of how Gary (couldn't spread creamcheese on a bagel if he tried) Bettman hasn't a clue of how to deal with the so-called elite players in the league. What Marty McSorley did was a slap on the wrist compared to bonehead Bertuzzi and his career was ended in disgrace.

But wait, even Hockey Canada has their heads up their collective asses also by drooling over Bertuzzi to be apart of Team Canada.

Funny how some are treated differently than others. Would Tie Domi be back and feted and worshipped? How about Darius Kasparitis? Eric Lindros?

Nothing like setting an example. You can bet your bottom dollar had Wayne Gretzky, Steve Yzerman, Markus Naslund or a slew of other elite players were so viciously attacked, Bertuzzi would probably be in jail. Just love those double standards.

If I were Sidney Crosby, now that fuckhead Bettman has rewarded Bertuzzi the right to carry on as before, setting no standards or precidents, I'd be shitting my pants thinking when will this happen to me, since it appears acceptable behaviour according to the NHL.

feelgood · 08-09-2005, 09:01 AM

I dunno, it's about time he got reinstated.

He paid the price for it, McSorley was nothing compared to Bertuzzi and didn't have much to lose. Bertuzzi, on the other hand did.

BigBen · 08-09-2005, 09:12 AM

This is a unique situation that will never arise again. What do you do with a suspended player during a labour dispute lock-out?

Do the games missed during the lock-out count towards the punishment, or should they be counted as a sunk-cost because noone was playing during that time? I don't know. I think that Bertuzzi is truly remorseful and will shape up his play in the future.

I do object to the media painting Moore as a choirboy that was viciously attacked. That weak fuckhead was skating away from Bertuzzi for 3 shifts, knowing that payback was a bitch for his crosscheck the game before. He knew he was going to get it. Instead of taking his lumps and throwing the gloves, he ran away from the enforcer.

Looking at the footage, how much damage was done by the punch (and Bertuzzi riding him down to the ice like a rented mule) and how much was caused by the ensuing dog-pile of players from both teams?

I hate Moore. I think that he is a marginal player at best, and ignored the unwritten rules of hockey. Don't touch the superstar, or you'll pay.

Now that Crosby is in the league, I would say that he walks into the coach's office and respectfully asks for a goon to protect him.

silent_jay · 08-09-2005, 09:26 AM

Glad to see Bertuzzi back, personally I don't think he deserved to sit out this long but that's just me. If you remember correctly Naslund was attacked by Moore prior to Bert punching him in the back of the head, which resulted in a concussion if I'm not mistaken.

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Looking at the footage, how much damage was done by the punch (and Bertuzzi riding him down to the ice like a rented mule) and how much was caused by the ensuing dog-pile of players from both teams?

I've been saying this since it happened, kind of hard to blame it all on Bert when you have 5 or more other guys piling on top.

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I hate Moore. I think that he is a marginal player at best, and ignored the unwritten rules of hockey. Don't touch the superstar, or you'll pay.

I agree totally, the way they are trying to make Moore look is like he was a superstar when he was a pine rider at best, who just happened to cheap shot the superstar.

As a former player and a fighter I always knew if I touched the star I was in for a war, it's been that way for years. All Moore had to do was have the stones to turn and face Bert, it's what should have happened, even if he got his ass handed to him, you never really get hurt in a hockey fight anyways.

What do some people want Bert to never play hockey again because he sucker punched a marginal player at best? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Kubz18 · 08-09-2005, 09:50 AM

i also am very glad to see him back... i know alot of people dont like the way he plays but hes part of the game,

look at ron atrest situation he sucker punched like 3 fans and missed 2/3rds of the season...
you have to realize he would be back and accept it.....BUT this means that he is probably under alot more eyes for suspensions and fines....which im sure he'll get some this year

OFKU0 · 08-09-2005, 10:44 AM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

If you remember correctly Naslund was attacked by Moore prior to Bert punching him in the back of the head, which resulted in a concussion if I'm not mistaken.

Actually Naslund wasn't attacked by Moore. What happened was Moore was ready to take him out, and possibly save a breakaway and Naslund saw him and turtled. Naslunds concussion is directly attributed to bailing out when he could have countered the hit or tried to stop. If he did that he wouldn't have been hurt. Anybody who has played anything more significant than house league hockey understands that.

And no it wasn't a cheapshot by Moore. Again for those who actually have strapped on a pair of skates before, once you are commited to a hit, you are commited, whether you hit or miss your target. Saying Naslund was a victim is like saying those drowning in the tsunami was their fault.

It is unbelievable that people attack Moore though. So he didn't fight, good for him. If I was on the ice for 2 minutes and some goon with fresh legs just jumps over the boards to go at me, I'm not gonna fight him either. You are tired, he isn't. But again, you have to play the game at a competative level to understand that.

But somewhere in the back of my head,me thinks when Bertuzzi plays in Colorado, he's in for payback, just like the payback he promised on Moore. Can't wait to see his career end.

silent_jay · 08-09-2005, 10:56 AM

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But again, you have to play the game at a competative level to understand that.

I think I've played some competative hockey in my time, plus I was a fighter so I know what it's like to have a guy with fresh legs want to fight. It isn't always the smartest decision to make but sometimes it has to be done.

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What happened was Moore was ready to take him out, and possibly save a breakaway and Naslund saw him and turtled.

The way I saw it was Naslund reaching for the puck so he was crouched over, although he may have been turtling I guess it depends on how you look at it.

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Can't wait to see his career end.

I can't believe anyone who's ever played any type of hockey would wish anothers career to end, that is just wrong, no matter what happens wishing anothers career to end just isn't right.

OFKU0 · 08-09-2005, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

I can't believe anyone who's ever played any type of hockey would wish anothers career to end, that is just wrong, no matter what happens wishing anothers career to end just isn't right.

You're right. Bad choice of words on my part. Bertuzzi's career should effectively be over, but given economics and the current state of the NHL, he is allowed another chance, and to my disappointment which echos hollow, alot of other people want him to play hockey.

I don't dislike Bertuzzi. As a matter of fact, I was the first to rip our GM in Ottawa (Muckler) for not picking him up a few years ago. But his actions don't ring hollow with me. What he did was a savage, premeditated attack on someone who I believe wasn't out to injure Naslund, but circumstances ended differently. (What did Naslund miss? 2 games?)

So now Bertuzzi is on probation. He can play, but how will he play. You can bet, as a physical player the first person he hits, clean or dirty, they are gonna stay down. How does that improve the game of hockey, a game that is suffering more than the other big 4 pro sport leagues?

Scorps · 08-10-2005, 09:15 AM

Im happy about this....but the canucks are my team and he is my favorite player

Fly · 08-14-2005, 07:40 AM

glad he's back...glad he's on my team........

if i heard right,Bert ain't allowed to play against Moore....so if he stays with colorado,Bert won't be on the ice.

Nazzy missed 3 games and yes,it was a cheap shot by Moore....imo

bondage007 · 08-14-2005, 06:16 PM

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Originally Posted by OFKU0

Actually Naslund wasn't attacked by Moore. What happened was Moore was ready to take him out, and possibly save a breakaway and Naslund saw him and turtled.

Complete and total bullshit.

Steve moore, the cowardly cunt that he is, saw Nassy reaching for the puck (full extension) and elbowed him in the side of the head, laying him flat.

Bert was the third guy on the canucks that moore pulled his bullshit on, and paid the price.

You'll be glad when Bert is retired?

I was glad the day steve moore was retired.

FngKestrel · 08-14-2005, 06:43 PM

Is there footage of both hits? You guys are so passionate about this that I've got to see this for myself.

IC3 · 08-15-2005, 03:06 AM

Fuck Bertuzzi, The only hockey he should be playing is in his dreams.

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Steve moore, the cowardly cunt that he is, saw Nassy reaching for the puck (full extension) and elbowed him in the side of the head, laying him flat.

Bertuzzi attacks Moore from behind..That's about as cowardly as you can get.
If Bertuzzi had of dropped the gloves in front of Moore and dropped him, No problem..But taking somebody out from behind is bullshit.

Scorps · 08-15-2005, 08:04 AM

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Originally Posted by IC3

Fuck Bertuzzi, The only hockey he should be playing is in his dreams.

Bertuzzi attacks Moore from behind..That's about as cowardly as you can get.
If Bertuzzi had of dropped the gloves in front of Moore and dropped him, No problem..But taking somebody out from behind is bullshit.

If would have watch the footage...Bertuzzi was trying to get Moore to drop the gloves but hes chicken shit and wouldn't do it!

silent_jay · 08-15-2005, 10:30 AM

Here's a link to the Bertuzzi hit. Now notice the other 5 or more guys that pile on top of Moore and Bert after the fact, so I have no clue as to how you guys can say that it was Bert who broke his neck. http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2537303?htv=12&htv=12

I'll try and find the Moore hit on Naslund.

Yes you are right PT, Bert wanted to knock the shit out of Moore in a good ole fight but Moore would rather run with his tail tucked between his legs than actually fight. What did he expect to happen when he gave Naslund a cheap shot, people would shake his hand and wish him well? I mean would Semenko have let someone get away with that kind of hit on Gretzky? I think not.

bondage007 · 08-15-2005, 11:57 AM

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Originally Posted by IC3

Fuck Bertuzzi, The only hockey he should be playing is in his dreams.

Bertuzzi attacks Moore from behind..That's about as cowardly as you can get.
If Bertuzzi had of dropped the gloves in front of Moore and dropped him, No problem..But taking somebody out from behind is bullshit.

Dont speak about something you know nothing about.

Brad May had challanged Steve moore to the obligatory "you nailed our superstar" fight during the game it happened, and the following game, so when moore wouldnt fight the toughest guy on the team, bert stood up and said fight me..

On no less than 3 occasions in the game in question, Moore showed intent to fight bertuzzi, only to turn away at the last second, like the PSYCHE move kids do in third grade with a high five.

Moore turned his back, and got a shot in the head, end of story.

The fact his neck was broken was not bertuzzi's intention, and a suspension based on the severity of an injury is unujust.

spongy · 08-15-2005, 09:15 PM

I have always thought that injuries from illegal hits ( against the rules illegal not against the law) should have the penalty begin after the injured player recovers.

A few years back Jim McMahon of the Bears got Spiked a few long seconds after the play and missed a few games. I think the offending player's penalty should have been enforced after NMac got back..... a penalty of 2 games.. plus the 3 games McMahon missed for a total of 5 games.

Scorps · 08-16-2005, 08:32 AM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

Here's a link to the Bertuzzi hit. Now notice the other 5 or more guys that pile on top of Moore and Bert after the fact, so I have no clue as to how you guys can say that it was Bert who broke his neck. http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2537303?htv=12&htv=12

I never though of that...good point

MikeSty · 08-16-2005, 09:00 AM

Can we see the cheap shot on naslund?

EDIT: Watched teh hit on moore ...... I seriously think the punch must have knocked him out. It didn't look like Bertuzzi jumped him ... moore just fell and bertuzzi went down with him. I think he was trying to push him and didn't realize he knocked him out.

The five guys piling on him is obviously the reason why his neck was broken... the first player to join the pile is an Avalanche player. Wow, this says a lot....

bondage007 · 08-16-2005, 10:29 AM

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/artic...17_155349_4880

bondage007 · 08-16-2005, 10:33 AM

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=72526

highthief · 08-16-2005, 12:28 PM

I'm amazed that people want to blame Moore for this.

Bertuzzi suckered him and drove the guy head first into the ice. It was a vile, cowardly act, and no matter what anyone might think of Moore - his talent, his previous actions - he did not deserve this. Whether Bertuzzi broke his neck smashing him into the ice or whether the Bertuzzi defenders want to say it happened in the aftermath, it was Bertuzzi's illegal actions that caused the final outcome.

Personally, when a player does this, he should sit out as long as the player he injured. That'll take a lot of the cheap shots out of the game.

silent_jay · 08-16-2005, 12:38 PM

I'd hardly say bert 'drove' his head into the ice, the kid was going down no matter what, especially with people jumping on top of him. Moore should have known what was coming, you hit a star you're going to get fucked up. He didn't deserve the injury he got, but had he dropped the gloves, it wouldn't have been this bad.

It was Moore's initial cheap shot that caused the final outcome, that and the fact he didn't have the stones to drop the gloves like a man would have, instead he decided to try and run away, had he been a man and fought he probably would have had no injury at all.

Can't really make Bert sit out for the amount of time Moore is out as well the other 5 guys played a part in the injury.

maximusveritas · 08-16-2005, 01:30 PM

I can't believe people are still defending what Bertuzzi did.
First of all, the hit on Naslund looked ugly but it was clearly not intentional.

Nevertheless, you guys are right when you say Moore should have expected payback. But then you are forgetting that Moore DID fight earlier in the game with Matt Cooke and took him down.
Cooke is not Bertuzzi or Brad May, but just because the Canucks didn't like the outcome doesn't mean they should expect Moore to keep fighting other guys until he gets beat up.

And it sure doesn't mean that Bertuzzi has the right come up behind the guy when he refuses to fight again and sucker punch him and drive his head into the ice.

Not to do a Bill Frist, but I re-watched the video and it's pretty clear that the injury came from the impact of Bertuzzi driving Moore's head into the ice. That was before any other players had jumped into the fray.

I do think Bertuzzi is truly sorry about what happened and I don't have a problem with him being reinstated. However, I think it's disgusting to try and justify his actions and I'm pretty sure he would be disgusted by it as well. That's my take on it anyway.

Lwang9276 · 08-18-2005, 12:30 AM

good take maximus

silent_jay · 08-18-2005, 06:54 AM

No one is trying to justify his actions, we're just trying not to make the guy look like the madman that some people here seem to be doing. I mean people saying his career should be over and what ever else.

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but I re-watched the video and it's pretty clear that the injury came from the impact of Bertuzzi driving Moore's head into the ice. That was before any other players had jumped into the fray.

That is your take on it, I'd hardly say Bert was driving his head into the ice though.

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First of all, the hit on Naslund looked ugly but it was clearly not intentional.

Not intentional, he moved towards him and threw and elbow at the guys head when he was reaching for a puck, from what I saw it looked pretty intentional to me.

bondage007 · 08-18-2005, 08:07 AM

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First of all, the hit on Naslund looked ugly but it was clearly not intentional.

More bullshit.

Moore was headhunting, and went for the hit while naslund was reaching for the puck.

MikeSty · 08-18-2005, 08:27 AM

The images are so-so :-/

Kurant · 08-18-2005, 11:12 AM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

I can't believe anyone who's ever played any type of hockey would wish anothers career to end, that is just wrong, no matter what happens wishing anothers career to end just isn't right.

The same way Bertuzzi ended Moore's career, right? Your right. It's justifiable that Bertuzzi ended Moore's career, but it's wrong to want Bertuzzi's career to end? Kind of a double standard, isn't it? Come on now.

It was intentional, it was malacious, and it has no place in hockey, period. People need to quit sugar-coating and quit calling it ONLY a punch. It was a punch, he jumped on his back, and slammed his face into the ice. Thats exactly what it was. His face was driven into the ice before the other 5 guys even touched him.

Bertuzzi should be back in hockey, and I have no problem with him being reinstated. What makes me sick, is people actully trying to justify it to themselves that what happened was an acceptable act.

silent_jay · 08-18-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurant

The same way Bertuzzi ended Moore's career, right? Your right. It's justifiable that Bertuzzi ended Moore's career, but it's wrong to want Bertuzzi's career to end? Kind of a double standard, isn't it? Come on now.

It was intentional, it was malacious, and it has no place in hockey, period. People need to quit sugar-coating and quit calling it ONLY a punch. It was a punch, he jumped on his back, and slammed his face into the ice. Thats exactly what it was. His face was driven into the ice before the other 5 guys even touched him.

Bertuzzi should be back in hockey, and I have no problem with him being reinstated. What makes me sick, is people actully trying to justify it to themselves that what happened was an acceptable act.

If you'll notice my post was in response to someone from the forum saying they couldn't wait to see Berts career end. Here's the quote for you

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Can't wait to see his career end.

And my response was that anyone who has ever played hockey would never say anything like that. If you think people who have played hockey say those things then it's quite obvious you haven't played at any kind of competitive level before.

So no not a double standard at all. When did Bert say he wanted Moores career to end? That's right he didn't, read the entire thread next time before you accuse me of having a double standard in this situation.

Now he jumped on his back? Sorry but no jump in the video footage I've seen and no driving his head to the ice either, I did see 5 or more people jumping on top of them though, but when the actual injury occured is always going to be open for debate.

No one is justifying it, we're just trying to not paint Bert as a madman like some people here seem to be trying to do, like I already said in a previous post.

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No one is trying to justify his actions, we're just trying not to make the guy look like the madman that some people here seem to be doing. I mean people saying his career should be over and what ever else.

Kurant · 08-18-2005, 03:09 PM

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Originally Posted by silent_jay

If you'll notice my post was in response to someone from the forum saying they couldn't wait to see Berts career end. Here's the quote for you

And my response was that anyone who has ever played hockey would never say anything like that. If you think people who have played hockey say those things then it's quite obvious you haven't played at any kind of competitive level before.

First off, you know nothing about me, what I do, or what I've done. So don't assume you know what your talking about. For a fact I played competitve hockey for about 17 years, from 5th grade till I was about 26 years old. I'd still play if physcially able, but shoulder surgery and broken ankle has taken it's toll.

I certianly hope your broad use of the term "you" doesn't apply to me. If it does, please, save yourself, and me the "ignorance is bliss" speech about what I know, and/or do, because you don't know.

On to better things and the discussion...

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Now he jumped on his back? Sorry but no jump in the video footage I've seen and no driving his head to the ice either, I did see 5 or more people jumping on top of them though, but when the actual injury occured is always going to be open for debate.

He was ON HIS BACK when he hit the ice, his hand and forearm is across his neck and upper back. He hit him going FOWARD, which means he fell, FOWARD. How is that NOT contributing to driving the mans face into the ice?

http://www.upforanything.net/bertuzzi.jpg (Bad picture, but the only one I knew of off the top of my head, and you can clearly see where his forearm is.)

He's not a monster. He's human, like all of us. I really feel Bertuzzi wishes that never happened, but it did happen. It ruined someones career and livelyhood. He made a mistake, he admitted that, he cried on tv, lotsa drama.. etc.. etc.. Bottom line is, he's back in the NHL, and I'm glad to see it. But you can't expect people to get past a malacious, viscious attack on another human being. It's no part of hockey and if people consider him a monster, then so be it. It's really not that hard to understand why, is it?

silent_jay · 08-18-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurant

First off, you know nothing about me, what I do, or what I've done. So don't assume you know what your talking about. For a fact I played competitve hockey for about 17 years, from 5th grade till I was about 26 years old. I'd still play if physcially able, but shoulder surgery and broken ankle has taken it's toll.

I certianly hope your broad use of the term "you" doesn't apply to me. If it does, please, save yourself, and me the "ignorance is bliss" speech about what I know, and/or do, because you don't know.

Look you accused me of having a double standard in this situation I merely pointed out what I was posting about, I never said I knew anything about you or what you have done, so chill out.

Good for you, you've played competitive hockey, as have I, I've played in the QMJHL, OHL and the UHL as well as Jr. A and Jr. B, I started playing Jr. at 15, and playing hockey at the age of 4 I'm now 28, so yes I'd say I know a fair bit about the game.

Never said anything about ignorance being bliss, I suggest you try reading my post again before going off on a rant. Seems you misunderstood the post you originally quoted me in and you are continuing to misunderstand my posts.

Kurant · 08-18-2005, 10:09 PM

I'm not ranting, I'm telling you. Don't assume what you know and don't know about me. You used the broad term "you" when replying to "me". Sorry if it was taken out of
context.

Water under the bridge, my friend.

I understand what your saying, I do. Believe me. The bottom line being, not everyone likes Bertuzzi, and alot of people don't want to see him play. Personally, I could care less. But, it's not hard to call him a monster. It really isn't. A malacious, publicized act, that cost somoene a career, possibly his lifestyle. Thats not justifiable to some, including me. It's got no place in hockey, period. You can't argue that. But, it's good to see him back.

If you don't mind me asking, when did you play Jr. B?

silent_jay · 08-19-2005, 11:29 AM

I started playing Jr. B back in 1992 or 93.

I agree that sort of thing has no place in the game.

08-09-2005, 09:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	I dunno, it's about time he got reinstated. He paid the price for it, McSorley was nothing compared to Bertuzzi and didn't have much to lose. Bertuzzi, on the other hand did. __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

08-09-2005, 09:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	This is a unique situation that will never arise again. What do you do with a suspended player during a labour dispute lock-out? Do the games missed during the lock-out count towards the punishment, or should they be counted as a sunk-cost because noone was playing during that time? I don't know. I think that Bertuzzi is truly remorseful and will shape up his play in the future. I do object to the media painting Moore as a choirboy that was viciously attacked. That weak fuckhead was skating away from Bertuzzi for 3 shifts, knowing that payback was a bitch for his crosscheck the game before. He knew he was going to get it. Instead of taking his lumps and throwing the gloves, he ran away from the enforcer. Looking at the footage, how much damage was done by the punch (and Bertuzzi riding him down to the ice like a rented mule) and how much was caused by the ensuing dog-pile of players from both teams? I hate Moore. I think that he is a marginal player at best, and ignored the unwritten rules of hockey. Don't touch the superstar, or you'll pay. Now that Crosby is in the league, I would say that he walks into the coach's office and respectfully asks for a goon to protect him. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

08-09-2005, 09:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Kubz18 Crazy Location: Austin....Austin, Massachusetts	i also am very glad to see him back... i know alot of people dont like the way he plays but hes part of the game, look at ron atrest situation he sucker punched like 3 fans and missed 2/3rds of the season... you have to realize he would be back and accept it.....BUT this means that he is probably under alot more eyes for suspensions and fines....which im sure he'll get some this year __________________ "I have no idea whats going on"

08-14-2005, 07:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
Fly see the links to my music? Location: Beautiful British Columbia	glad he's back...glad he's on my team........ if i heard right,Bert ain't allowed to play against Moore....so if he stays with colorado,Bert won't be on the ice. Nazzy missed 3 games and yes,it was a cheap shot by Moore....imo __________________ BASTARD SterlingStudios

08-15-2005, 10:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Here's a link to the Bertuzzi hit. Now notice the other 5 or more guys that pile on top of Moore and Bert after the fact, so I have no clue as to how you guys can say that it was Bert who broke his neck. http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2537303?htv=12&htv=12 I'll try and find the Moore hit on Naslund. Yes you are right PT, Bert wanted to knock the shit out of Moore in a good ole fight but Moore would rather run with his tail tucked between his legs than actually fight. What did he expect to happen when he gave Naslund a cheap shot, people would shake his hand and wish him well? I mean would Semenko have let someone get away with that kind of hit on Gretzky? I think not. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 08-15-2005 at 10:39 AM..

08-10-2005, 09:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	Im happy about this....but the canucks are my team and he is my favorite player

08-14-2005, 06:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
FngKestrel Junkie	Is there footage of both hits? You guys are so passionate about this that I've got to see this for myself.

08-15-2005, 09:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
spongy Psycho	I have always thought that injuries from illegal hits ( against the rules illegal not against the law) should have the penalty begin after the injured player recovers. A few years back Jim McMahon of the Bears got Spiked a few long seconds after the play and missed a few games. I think the offending player's penalty should have been enforced after NMac got back..... a penalty of 2 games.. plus the 3 games McMahon missed for a total of 5 games. __________________ The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Stephen King

08-16-2005, 09:00 AM	#19 (permalink)
MikeSty The Computer Kid :D Location: 127.0.0.1	Can we see the cheap shot on naslund? EDIT: Watched teh hit on moore ...... I seriously think the punch must have knocked him out. It didn't look like Bertuzzi jumped him ... moore just fell and bertuzzi went down with him. I think he was trying to push him and didn't realize he knocked him out. The five guys piling on him is obviously the reason why his neck was broken... the first player to join the pile is an Avalanche player. Wow, this says a lot....

08-16-2005, 10:29 AM	#20 (permalink)
bondage007 Upright	http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/artic...17_155349_4880

08-16-2005, 10:33 AM	#21 (permalink)
bondage007 Upright	http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=72526

08-16-2005, 12:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	I'm amazed that people want to blame Moore for this. Bertuzzi suckered him and drove the guy head first into the ice. It was a vile, cowardly act, and no matter what anyone might think of Moore - his talent, his previous actions - he did not deserve this. Whether Bertuzzi broke his neck smashing him into the ice or whether the Bertuzzi defenders want to say it happened in the aftermath, it was Bertuzzi's illegal actions that caused the final outcome. Personally, when a player does this, he should sit out as long as the player he injured. That'll take a lot of the cheap shots out of the game. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-16-2005, 12:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	I'd hardly say bert 'drove' his head into the ice, the kid was going down no matter what, especially with people jumping on top of him. Moore should have known what was coming, you hit a star you're going to get fucked up. He didn't deserve the injury he got, but had he dropped the gloves, it wouldn't have been this bad. It was Moore's initial cheap shot that caused the final outcome, that and the fact he didn't have the stones to drop the gloves like a man would have, instead he decided to try and run away, had he been a man and fought he probably would have had no injury at all. Can't really make Bert sit out for the amount of time Moore is out as well the other 5 guys played a part in the injury. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

08-16-2005, 01:30 PM	#24 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	I can't believe people are still defending what Bertuzzi did. First of all, the hit on Naslund looked ugly but it was clearly not intentional. Nevertheless, you guys are right when you say Moore should have expected payback. But then you are forgetting that Moore DID fight earlier in the game with Matt Cooke and took him down. Cooke is not Bertuzzi or Brad May, but just because the Canucks didn't like the outcome doesn't mean they should expect Moore to keep fighting other guys until he gets beat up. And it sure doesn't mean that Bertuzzi has the right come up behind the guy when he refuses to fight again and sucker punch him and drive his head into the ice. Not to do a Bill Frist, but I re-watched the video and it's pretty clear that the injury came from the impact of Bertuzzi driving Moore's head into the ice. That was before any other players had jumped into the fray. I do think Bertuzzi is truly sorry about what happened and I don't have a problem with him being reinstated. However, I think it's disgusting to try and justify his actions and I'm pretty sure he would be disgusted by it as well. That's my take on it anyway.

08-18-2005, 12:30 AM	#25 (permalink)
Lwang9276 Crazy	good take maximus

08-18-2005, 08:27 AM	#28 (permalink)
MikeSty The Computer Kid :D Location: 127.0.0.1	The images are so-so :-/

08-18-2005, 10:09 PM	#33 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	I'm not ranting, I'm telling you. Don't assume what you know and don't know about me. You used the broad term "you" when replying to "me". Sorry if it was taken out of context. Water under the bridge, my friend. I understand what your saying, I do. Believe me. The bottom line being, not everyone likes Bertuzzi, and alot of people don't want to see him play. Personally, I could care less. But, it's not hard to call him a monster. It really isn't. A malacious, publicized act, that cost somoene a career, possibly his lifestyle. Thats not justifiable to some, including me. It's got no place in hockey, period. You can't argue that. But, it's good to see him back. If you don't mind me asking, when did you play Jr. B?

08-19-2005, 11:29 AM	#34 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	I started playing Jr. B back in 1992 or 93. I agree that sort of thing has no place in the game. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder