Jose Canseco. Do you believe him?? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

NCB · 02-14-2005, 02:13 PM

This is a pretty big story. The question is, do you think he's telling the truth?

02-14-2005, 02:14 PM

About what?

djtestudo · 02-14-2005, 02:20 PM

He contradicted himself at least once already, so he's definately sounding very credible.

MontanaXVI · 02-14-2005, 02:28 PM

this is a tough topic for me to debate on, I was a HUGE Canseco fan as a younger boy playing baseball and watching baseball, but as all good things most that are too good to be true usually are. He already tarnished his name and is using the book to get back at everyone for not allowing him back into baseball when most scouts and owners/coaches feel he is physically not an asset to a team anymore. Like your typical athlete he did not know when it was time to call it quits.

I do think he has blackballed himself with all the shit spewing from his mouth in recent times which did nothing to help his cause of wanting to get back into the game.

Now as for me thinking he is lying about the 'roid use and such. No I do not think so, he is telling the truth I feel and when events such as the leaked grand jury testimony comes out where Giambi, and Bonds for one have said NO WE DID NOT USE, then we hear they told a grand jury yeah we did use, it adds to the small amount of credibility that Jose has.

sgn43 · 02-14-2005, 03:53 PM

I think there's at least a tiny bit of truth in what he's saying. I know that steroid use is pretty rampant in baseball, so at least some of what he's saying is factual. However, the guy is trying to sell a book, and there's no such thing as bad publicity. The more sensationalism he stirs up with his accusations and controversy, the more books he's going to sell and the more money he's going to make. Plus, the guy seems like he took one too many flyballs off the noggin.

It's a damn shame, because like Montana, I was a fan of Jose's when I was younger. I thought the bash brothers with him and McGwire was coolest tandem in baseball as a kid. Oh well.

soccerchamp76 · 02-14-2005, 06:09 PM

Canseco is a low-life bum that is lying to accomplish a personal vendetta. Not only has be contradicted himself several times, his only motivation for writing this book is for attention and $$$$.
He cheated, retired, and now is writing a book abot how he supposedly conned athletes into taking illegal steroids.

crewsor · 02-14-2005, 07:44 PM

He's an idiot. I think that fly ball he took to the head did some severe damage.

That said, I have no doubt most of the players he names are or were on the juice. If he says he saw and helped players take Roids, I don't doubt that either. I have a problem with him naming names and speculating about players that he has no direct knowledge of using Roids though. For him to imlicate Tejada, because he mentioned steroids to him and he seemed "interested" is pathetic.

kpxrob · 02-14-2005, 08:48 PM

mark mcgwire is right...hes been in more police lineups than in an actually team lineup... hes so sad

Spartak · 02-14-2005, 09:43 PM

I think it's actually worse than Conseco claims, if baseball was a clean sport the union wouldn't be objecting to drug testing that much.

soccerchamp76 · 02-14-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartak

I think it's actually worse than Conseco claims, if baseball was a clean sport the union wouldn't be objecting to drug testing that much.

The union was against the drug testing but the players weren't. Many of the clean players were angry that their stats would have an asterik by people because of steroids.
I mean, look at Albert Pujols, a natural talented player that is not on steroids. People will second guess anybody now. All because Canseco wanted to cheat people and now is making a shitload of money off of it.

Anybody that still thinks Barry was not on steroids is a moron. His girlfriend admitted it, his trainer admitted it, but yet, he says he did not know he was taking steroids. The same man who was extremely meticulous on what went insid of his body down to exactly what he ate, took an unknown substance from his trainer? BULLSHIT.

Canseco is a bum who is in need of money and is getting exactly that.

sgn43 · 02-14-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpxrob

mark mcgwire is right...hes been in more police lineups than in an actually team lineup... hes so sad

Actually, McGwire has only denied the allegations. It was Jason Giambi's agent that made the comment about Canseco being in more police blotters than baseball lineups.

loonatic8her · 02-15-2005, 09:03 AM

I am surprised that people are so surprised about this. I mean let's just put our memory cap on and remember what an ASS Canseco was when he was playing... Trouble with the police, with owners. with other players, with managers... so on and so forth. This book was all about the Benjamins... the love of money is the root of all evil... I was never a fan of his and am still not a fan. However I am inclined to believe him about Mcguire and Bonds.... I mean look at Bonds rookie card...(yes I have one) he is nowhere the behometh that he is now... and Mcguire... well as soon as he cleaned up his stats went down. It is a very sad day that friendships and trust have been betrayed by Canseco... and all because he is a washed up bum. Trying to make a buck while sinking in his ship.... So who's fault is this anyways??? how about MLB!!! If they want to scream foul about record breakers... they shoulda done so before Bonds got within a season and a half from the unimaginable 756. Thats my humble opinion... which along with $3.75 will buy some coffee at Starbucks.

caz · 02-15-2005, 10:01 AM

I was never really a fan of Canseco and I know that he has contradicted himself many times in regards to the situation at hand. He has also royally screwed his baseball career, but I have a feeling that there is some truth to what he is claiming. If you take a look at all the guys that he is pointing the finger at... they all had a significant change in their physical appearance and their ability to play the game. I still think that it was a pretty low thing to start calling people out.

munchen · 02-15-2005, 01:33 PM

I agree thats it was pretty low to betray friends and call them out on steroids, but i think its necessary right now. Baseball is a fucked up sport right now with the ridiculous salaries and lack of competitive balance couple with the cheating. I think this could be important to cleansing the league of steroids. Honestly though, is there really any doubt that these players are on steroids?

boom29 · 02-15-2005, 01:49 PM

It's very hard to believe what he says, mostly because he is trying to $ell book$, but there has to be some truth in what he wrote. I don't think he would make all of it up, most likely he embellished the truth, which is why we are seeing so many contradictions now.

MontanaXVI · 02-15-2005, 01:51 PM

One other thing I have to add on all this, someone mentioned above about Bonds getting bigger and McGqire as well. The one thing, size aside, that not many people realize is McGwire DID hit 49 HR's his ROOKIE year at a bean pole esque 6'5" 220lbs listed on his Topps Olympic rookie card (yes I do have one)

Do not believe me?

Check it out.

1987 49 HR's
1992 42 HR's
1996 52 HR's
1997 58 HR's
1998 70 HR's
1999 65 HR's

Now how much of that can be contributed to roids or the Andro he admitted to taking, which, at the time, was not illegal or banned? No one knows, but if you look at the years above he WAS hitting the long ball throughout his career. NOT LIKE Bonds who went from a high of mid 40's to a record of 73 that is a jump that I find hard to believe. I feel in my mind that McGwire did some juice and some of the record years are juice induced, but the fact he hit 49 as a kid still sticks in my mind as a fact of the power and strength he had naturally.

I just got home from work and bought the Canseco book while out, I have not written a book report since middle school, but will do my best to put together a short summary of points and snippets from the book after tomorrow when I get a chance to read it on my day off

Dingo2879 · 02-15-2005, 02:30 PM

F*%K Jose Canseco! Pitchers & Catchers report this week and instead of talking about spring training and the upcoming season, his little tell all book is all anyone can talk about.. I think everyone knows that the past decade in baseball has been tainted by the select few who decided to cheat there way into better stats... That time has passed, we finally have semi strict rules concerning steroids, and we should see a relatively clean game from now on until something else comes along...
Predictions for the upcoming season

World Series: Cubs Vs. Yankees
World Series Winner: Cubs in six!!!!!!!!!!!

zhevek · 02-15-2005, 05:03 PM

I totally believe that baseball still is full of roid monkeys, and was during the 90s as well. Haven't' been a fan since the 1994 strike.

Most players today wouldn't know a sacrifice bunt if it hit them in the head.

kutulu · 02-16-2005, 09:02 AM

I really don't care. I'm sick of the steroid drama. Baseball is entertaining. I reallly don't care if they are juiced or not. It's funny that no pitchers have been named yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhevek

Most players today wouldn't know a sacrifice bunt if it hit them in the head.

lol, I think that's a GOOD thing. In most situations, all a bunt accomplishes is wasting an out.

soccerchamp76 · 02-16-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

lol, I think that's a GOOD thing. In most situations, all a bunt accomplishes is wasting an out.

And advancing a runner from first to second so he can score on a single. With a runner on second, he will score on a single, with a runner on first he will only advance to second, maybe to third, on a single, and NO RUN.

kutulu · 02-16-2005, 01:54 PM

I'll concede that there are certain situations where bunting may be in order but for most purposes, it is a waste. If you want to discuss it further we could start a new thread on it.

heccubusiv · 02-16-2005, 02:23 PM

I think he has some truth cause players did blow up and hit a lot of homeruns. But thats what people go to baseball games for, more people go to see Barry Bonds then do it see a closer or a pitcher or a good defensive player. I think baseball knew a lot but did not want to admit it because people were finally coming back to the ball part

abearaware · 02-16-2005, 03:23 PM

It's all about whatever will sell their book today. That seems to be the driving factor behind all of this first and foremost. Some of his claims may have some truth to it, but as an innocent fan of baseball, I have almost shielded myself from any future rats so to speak due to the fact that I don't know what to believe anymore. It's not far fetched to think a player like Canseco wouldn't make up lies just to make a dollar. After all, look at the ridiculous amounts of money these athletes make.

unkle_escobar · 02-16-2005, 06:09 PM

I believe him to an extent, but I also believe that he's trying to take down a lot of innocent guys with him, I mean, of all people in the MLB Ivan Rodruigez is one of the laassst guys you'd look at and think "He's on the juice". And I'm not quite sure the logic in him naming names like he's done, the MLB isnt going to make any new rules that result from all this retro-active, they're not gonna go back through their record books next to any record thats under suspiscion. I really think his main motivation for 'confessing' is simply for attention.

kutulu · 02-17-2005, 10:20 AM

I'd think Craig Counsell would be the last one I'd think is on the juice. Pudge is no beanpole. Did Benito Santiago look like he was on the juice (he was part of the BALCO thing too)? Veteran catchers would definitly be on my list of players to suspect.

The fact is though, I don't really care. Canseco can get his cash grab and that's fine with me. I'm willing to wipe the slate clean for everyone (including Bonds and Giambi). As far as I'm concerned, the use of steroids before they were banned by the CBA in 2002 does not constitute cheating.

Jesus Malverde · 02-18-2005, 06:02 PM

I don't know now, at first I believed him because I thought steroid use by some of the big stars was obvious, but there is a guy on ESPN Page 2 who has done some fact checking on Canseco. Some of the stuff he says happened isn't true. For example, he says he remembers a crucial at-bat during Game 6 of a playoff series (can't remember which one), but there wasn't even a Game 6 during that series.

Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...=merron/050216

jobu · 02-19-2005, 01:12 PM

i think you have to believe some of what he says.

drakers · 02-20-2005, 06:59 PM

He probably spent too much money buying steroids for his ridiculous useless muscles. He should have spent it on hiring a financial planner.

canuckguy · 02-21-2005, 07:54 AM

Just read on espn that Ivan Rodriguez showed up to camp 10% lighter than last year....hmmmm. I am very curious to see what Mr Brett Boone looks like this year...... I hope that someone does a story about the size and weight of players compared to last year to see who had the biggest difference is size (decrease). I wonder if we will see a link between the guys who use to jack 10 homers, then jumped to 40, now hitting 10 again. just curious.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1996273

kutulu · 02-21-2005, 10:59 AM

I'm sure there will be plenty of guys who 'discovered a great offseason workout program' so now they are leaner and better.

The fucked up thing is that most of the star players that would fall in that category are ageing veterans. If they decline this year they can point to age instead of roids.

02-14-2005, 02:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
NCB Junkie Location: Tobacco Road	Jose Canseco. Do you believe him?? This is a pretty big story. The question is, do you think he's telling the truth?

02-14-2005, 02:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	He contradicted himself at least once already, so he's definately sounding very credible. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

02-14-2005, 02:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
MontanaXVI Junkie Location: Go A's!!!!	this is a tough topic for me to debate on, I was a HUGE Canseco fan as a younger boy playing baseball and watching baseball, but as all good things most that are too good to be true usually are. He already tarnished his name and is using the book to get back at everyone for not allowing him back into baseball when most scouts and owners/coaches feel he is physically not an asset to a team anymore. Like your typical athlete he did not know when it was time to call it quits. I do think he has blackballed himself with all the shit spewing from his mouth in recent times which did nothing to help his cause of wanting to get back into the game. Now as for me thinking he is lying about the 'roid use and such. No I do not think so, he is telling the truth I feel and when events such as the leaked grand jury testimony comes out where Giambi, and Bonds for one have said NO WE DID NOT USE, then we hear they told a grand jury yeah we did use, it adds to the small amount of credibility that Jose has. __________________ Spank you very much

02-14-2005, 03:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
sgn43 Insane Location: Los Angeles	I think there's at least a tiny bit of truth in what he's saying. I know that steroid use is pretty rampant in baseball, so at least some of what he's saying is factual. However, the guy is trying to sell a book, and there's no such thing as bad publicity. The more sensationalism he stirs up with his accusations and controversy, the more books he's going to sell and the more money he's going to make. Plus, the guy seems like he took one too many flyballs off the noggin. It's a damn shame, because like Montana, I was a fan of Jose's when I was younger. I thought the bash brothers with him and McGwire was coolest tandem in baseball as a kid. Oh well. __________________ To be great is to be misunderstood. -Emerson

02-14-2005, 06:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Canseco is a low-life bum that is lying to accomplish a personal vendetta. Not only has be contradicted himself several times, his only motivation for writing this book is for attention and $$$$. He cheated, retired, and now is writing a book abot how he supposedly conned athletes into taking illegal steroids. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

02-14-2005, 02:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	About what?

02-14-2005, 07:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
crewsor Women want me. Men fear me. Location: Maryland,USA	He's an idiot. I think that fly ball he took to the head did some severe damage. That said, I have no doubt most of the players he names are or were on the juice. If he says he saw and helped players take Roids, I don't doubt that either. I have a problem with him naming names and speculating about players that he has no direct knowledge of using Roids though. For him to imlicate Tejada, because he mentioned steroids to him and he seemed "interested" is pathetic. __________________ We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

02-14-2005, 08:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
kpxrob Upright	mark mcgwire is right...hes been in more police lineups than in an actually team lineup... hes so sad

02-14-2005, 09:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	I think it's actually worse than Conseco claims, if baseball was a clean sport the union wouldn't be objecting to drug testing that much. __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

02-15-2005, 09:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
loonatic8her Crazy Location: Greater Atlanta, Ga.	I am surprised that people are so surprised about this. I mean let's just put our memory cap on and remember what an ASS Canseco was when he was playing... Trouble with the police, with owners. with other players, with managers... so on and so forth. This book was all about the Benjamins... the love of money is the root of all evil... I was never a fan of his and am still not a fan. However I am inclined to believe him about Mcguire and Bonds.... I mean look at Bonds rookie card...(yes I have one) he is nowhere the behometh that he is now... and Mcguire... well as soon as he cleaned up his stats went down. It is a very sad day that friendships and trust have been betrayed by Canseco... and all because he is a washed up bum. Trying to make a buck while sinking in his ship.... So who's fault is this anyways??? how about MLB!!! If they want to scream foul about record breakers... they shoulda done so before Bonds got within a season and a half from the unimaginable 756. Thats my humble opinion... which along with $3.75 will buy some coffee at Starbucks. __________________ The Loonatic Did you get rid of all the voices in your head? Do you now miss them and the things they said?

02-15-2005, 10:01 AM	#13 (permalink)
caz Tilted Location: Illinois	I was never really a fan of Canseco and I know that he has contradicted himself many times in regards to the situation at hand. He has also royally screwed his baseball career, but I have a feeling that there is some truth to what he is claiming. If you take a look at all the guys that he is pointing the finger at... they all had a significant change in their physical appearance and their ability to play the game. I still think that it was a pretty low thing to start calling people out.

02-15-2005, 01:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
munchen Crazy Location: Sudbury, Ontario	I agree thats it was pretty low to betray friends and call them out on steroids, but i think its necessary right now. Baseball is a fucked up sport right now with the ridiculous salaries and lack of competitive balance couple with the cheating. I think this could be important to cleansing the league of steroids. Honestly though, is there really any doubt that these players are on steroids? __________________ "Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun" -Matt Groening

02-15-2005, 01:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
boom29 Insane	It's very hard to believe what he says, mostly because he is trying to $ell book$, but there has to be some truth in what he wrote. I don't think he would make all of it up, most likely he embellished the truth, which is why we are seeing so many contradictions now.

02-15-2005, 01:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
MontanaXVI Junkie Location: Go A's!!!!	One other thing I have to add on all this, someone mentioned above about Bonds getting bigger and McGqire as well. The one thing, size aside, that not many people realize is McGwire DID hit 49 HR's his ROOKIE year at a bean pole esque 6'5" 220lbs listed on his Topps Olympic rookie card (yes I do have one) Do not believe me? Check it out. 1987 49 HR's 1992 42 HR's 1996 52 HR's 1997 58 HR's 1998 70 HR's 1999 65 HR's Now how much of that can be contributed to roids or the Andro he admitted to taking, which, at the time, was not illegal or banned? No one knows, but if you look at the years above he WAS hitting the long ball throughout his career. NOT LIKE Bonds who went from a high of mid 40's to a record of 73 that is a jump that I find hard to believe. I feel in my mind that McGwire did some juice and some of the record years are juice induced, but the fact he hit 49 as a kid still sticks in my mind as a fact of the power and strength he had naturally. I just got home from work and bought the Canseco book while out, I have not written a book report since middle school, but will do my best to put together a short summary of points and snippets from the book after tomorrow when I get a chance to read it on my day off __________________ Spank you very much

02-15-2005, 02:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dingo2879 Crazy Location: Lisle, IL	F*%K Jose Canseco! Pitchers & Catchers report this week and instead of talking about spring training and the upcoming season, his little tell all book is all anyone can talk about.. I think everyone knows that the past decade in baseball has been tainted by the select few who decided to cheat there way into better stats... That time has passed, we finally have semi strict rules concerning steroids, and we should see a relatively clean game from now on until something else comes along... Predictions for the upcoming season World Series: Cubs Vs. Yankees World Series Winner: Cubs in six!!!!!!!!!!!

02-15-2005, 05:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
zhevek Tilted Location: Portland, Or	I totally believe that baseball still is full of roid monkeys, and was during the 90s as well. Haven't' been a fan since the 1994 strike. Most players today wouldn't know a sacrifice bunt if it hit them in the head. __________________ Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil

02-16-2005, 01:54 PM	#21 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'll concede that there are certain situations where bunting may be in order but for most purposes, it is a waste. If you want to discuss it further we could start a new thread on it.

02-16-2005, 02:23 PM	#22 (permalink)
heccubusiv #1 Irish Fan Location: The Burgh	I think he has some truth cause players did blow up and hit a lot of homeruns. But thats what people go to baseball games for, more people go to see Barry Bonds then do it see a closer or a pitcher or a good defensive player. I think baseball knew a lot but did not want to admit it because people were finally coming back to the ball part __________________ Fuck Ohio

02-16-2005, 03:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
abearaware Upright	It's all about whatever will sell their book today. That seems to be the driving factor behind all of this first and foremost. Some of his claims may have some truth to it, but as an innocent fan of baseball, I have almost shielded myself from any future rats so to speak due to the fact that I don't know what to believe anymore. It's not far fetched to think a player like Canseco wouldn't make up lies just to make a dollar. After all, look at the ridiculous amounts of money these athletes make.

02-16-2005, 06:09 PM	#24 (permalink)
unkle_escobar Upright	I believe him to an extent, but I also believe that he's trying to take down a lot of innocent guys with him, I mean, of all people in the MLB Ivan Rodruigez is one of the laassst guys you'd look at and think "He's on the juice". And I'm not quite sure the logic in him naming names like he's done, the MLB isnt going to make any new rules that result from all this retro-active, they're not gonna go back through their record books next to any record thats under suspiscion. I really think his main motivation for 'confessing' is simply for attention.

02-17-2005, 10:20 AM	#25 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'd think Craig Counsell would be the last one I'd think is on the juice. Pudge is no beanpole. Did Benito Santiago look like he was on the juice (he was part of the BALCO thing too)? Veteran catchers would definitly be on my list of players to suspect. The fact is though, I don't really care. Canseco can get his cash grab and that's fine with me. I'm willing to wipe the slate clean for everyone (including Bonds and Giambi). As far as I'm concerned, the use of steroids before they were banned by the CBA in 2002 does not constitute cheating. Last edited by kutulu; 02-17-2005 at 10:24 AM..

02-18-2005, 06:02 PM	#26 (permalink)
Jesus Malverde Psycho Location: Sinaloa, Mexico	I don't know now, at first I believed him because I thought steroid use by some of the big stars was obvious, but there is a guy on ESPN Page 2 who has done some fact checking on Canseco. Some of the stuff he says happened isn't true. For example, he says he remembers a crucial at-bat during Game 6 of a playoff series (can't remember which one), but there wasn't even a Game 6 during that series. Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...=merron/050216 __________________ ...I'm that cat by the bar toasting to the good life... Last edited by Jesus Malverde; 02-18-2005 at 06:05 PM..

02-19-2005, 01:12 PM	#27 (permalink)
jobu Crazy	i think you have to believe some of what he says.

02-20-2005, 06:59 PM	#28 (permalink)
drakers Psycho Location: IOWA	He probably spent too much money buying steroids for his ridiculous useless muscles. He should have spent it on hiring a financial planner. __________________ Friends don't shake hands, friends 'gotta HUG!

02-21-2005, 07:54 AM	#29 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	Just read on espn that Ivan Rodriguez showed up to camp 10% lighter than last year....hmmmm. I am very curious to see what Mr Brett Boone looks like this year...... I hope that someone does a story about the size and weight of players compared to last year to see who had the biggest difference is size (decrease). I wonder if we will see a link between the guys who use to jack 10 homers, then jumped to 40, now hitting 10 again. just curious. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1996273

02-21-2005, 10:59 AM	#30 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I'm sure there will be plenty of guys who 'discovered a great offseason workout program' so now they are leaner and better. The fucked up thing is that most of the star players that would fall in that category are ageing veterans. If they decline this year they can point to age instead of roids.