MLB to test randomly for steroids - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

gov135 · 11-13-2003, 05:20 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1661145

NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball will begin penalizing players for steroid use next season after learning that more than 5 percent of this year's tests came back positive.

Suspicions of steroid use had run high in recent times as bulked-up sluggers set all sorts of home run records. Stars such as Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa denied taking the drugs.

But on Thursday, the results came back and proved what many in baseball assumed and what former MVPs Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti had already admitted.

"Hopefully, this will, over time, allow us to completely eradicate the use of performance enhancement substances in baseball," commissioner Bud Selig said.

MLB said of 1,438 anonymous tests this season, between 5 and 7 percent were positive.

Under baseball's labor contract that took effect last fall, testing with penalties begins after any season in which more than 5 percent fail. And from now on, players will be identified.

A first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000.

The length of suspensions would increase to 25 days for a third positive test, 50 days for a fourth and one year for a fifth. The suspensions would be without pay.

Testing with penalties will continue until positive tests drop below 2.5 percent in consecutive years.

"There's a slight disagreement to where in that spectrum the exact number falls," said Gene Orza, the No. 2 official of the players' association. "It's a technical disagreement to the interpretation of the results."

"I had no expectation one way or the other," he said. "I did know the claims that put the pressure on the players to address this problem the way they did were wildly inflated."

Some players, notably on the Chicago White Sox, had called for even more stringent testing.

"I guess if people want it bad enough they find their way around the system," Oakland pitcher Ted Lilly said after the announcement. "There's still other supplements and aids out there that aren't exactly steroids. If there's anything out there that can help, I'd imagine players would find it."

____________________________________________________

This is truly amazing. The steroid testing policy was only to kick in if five percent or more of players tested tested positive. The baseball players union negotiated this. They must never have thought that this level would be reached.

I don't want to see baseball "exposed" or anything like that. I do want to see steroids removed from the game - and this is the best way to go about it.

The thing I like most about the policy is the penalties are stiff and firm. One strike, you get a warning and extra testing. Two strikes, you get a fifteen game suspension. That would absolutely kill your team - its a harsh punishment for cheating.

What are your thoughts?

dragon2fire · 11-13-2003, 08:26 PM

just fifteen games

ba i say toss them out for a year the second time

well at least they are trying

djtestudo · 11-13-2003, 08:42 PM

Personally, I think that anyone who tests positive next season should be thrown out of the majors as examples. Any seasons after that, you put lower penalties in place.

Spartak · 11-14-2003, 01:49 AM

Should be like the Olympics: you use performance enhancing drugs - your ass is grass.

But at least they are doing something, should be fairly interesting to see how it develops and what players test positive.

captain · 11-14-2003, 08:35 AM

Thankfully MLB is finally getting around to doing something about a major problem.

gov135, you are right- the players union never thought the 5% bar would be reached. They have had their head in the sand for years. All of a sudden players are hitting 70 hrs. Give me a break.

dylanmarsh · 12-02-2004, 05:55 AM

The Brother's Giambi Pretty amazing that it only took a year before the truth finally comes out:

Quote:

New York Yankees star Jason Giambi told a federal grand jury that he had injected himself with human growth hormone during the 2003 baseball season and had started using steroids at least two years earlier, The Chronicle has learned.

Giambi has publicly denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but his Dec. 11, 2003, testimony in the BALCO steroids case contradicts those statements, according to a transcript of the grand jury proceedings reviewed by The Chronicle.

The onetime Oakland A's first baseman and 2000 American League Most Valuable Player testified that in 2003, when he hit 41 home runs for the Yankees, he had used several different steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, weight trainer for San Francisco Giants star Barry Bonds.

In his testimony, Giambi described how he had used syringes to inject human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks. Giambi also said he had taken "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream" -- one a liquid administered by placing a few drops under the tongue, the other a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body.

The 33-year-old Yankee said Anderson had provided him with all of the drugs except for human growth hormone, which he said he had obtained at a Las Vegas gym. Anderson also provided him syringes, Giambi said.

Agent Arn Tellem, who accompanied Giambi and his younger brother, Jeremy, to the grand jury, did not return calls seeking comment. Other efforts to reach the Giambis were unsuccessful.

Anderson has denied wrongdoing in the BALCO case. His attorney, J. Tony Serra, declined comment, citing a court order aimed at preserving the secrecy of grand jury proceedings.

The Giambis were among more than two dozen elite athletes summoned to San Francisco last year to testify in the federal investigation centered on the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, a Burlingame nutritional business suspected of distributing "designer" steroids to elite athletes. In February, the grand jury indicted Anderson, BALCO founder Victor Conte and two other men on charges of conspiracy to distribute steroids and money laundering. They have pleaded not guilty.

Jeremy Giambi, a former A's outfielder who spent 2004 with the minor league Las Vegas 51s, also told the BALCO grand jury that he had injected banned drugs received from Anderson, according to a transcript of his testimony.

Both Giambis testified that they had already used steroids before they met Anderson or heard of BALCO, and they said they were drawn to the trainer because of Bonds' success.

Bonds has denied using steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.

Jason Giambi hit 94 home runs in three seasons with the Yankees. But he played in fewer than half the team's games this year, reportedly ill with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor on his pituitary gland. His ties to BALCO fueled speculation that his illness was related to steroid use, but he told reporters in August that there was no connection.

In front of the grand jury, the Giambi brothers were instructed that they had been granted immunity from prosecution if they told the truth but faced perjury charges if they lied.

In his testimony, Jason Giambi told the grand jury he had used the injectable steroid Deca Durabolin "two years ago" -- that is, in 2001, his last year with Oakland -- after obtaining the drug from a source at a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas.

Giambi said he had met Anderson in November 2002, when Bonds brought the trainer to join a group of big-leaguers on a barnstorming tour of Japan.

Giambi said he had queried Anderson about Bonds' workout and health regimens.

"So I started to ask him: 'Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry? He's an incredible player. I want to still be able to work out at that age and keep playing,' " Giambi testified. "And that's how the conversation first started."

Giambi said Anderson had suggested getting his blood tested for mineral deficiencies and taking supplements to counter those shortages; it was a snapshot description of the legitimate business BALCO performed for athletes.

Giambi called Anderson upon returning to the States, then flew to the Bay Area in late November or early December 2002 and met him in Burlingame at a gym down the street from BALCO, he told the grand jury. From there, the two men went to a hospital for Giambi to provide blood and urine samples, which were taken to BALCO, Giambi testified.

Either during that meeting or in a phone conversation shortly thereafter, Giambi said, Anderson began discussing various performance-enhancing drugs he could provide the ballplayer. Also, when Anderson received the results of Giambi's blood and urine tests, Anderson told him he had tested positive for Deca Durabolin, the steroid Giambi said he had obtained at the Las Vegas gym. Giambi said Anderson had warned him to stop using it, saying it could stay in his system a long time.

At the time, baseball was implementing its first-ever steroids-testing program at the major-league level, during the 2003 season. It is illegal to obtain steroids or human growth hormone without a doctor's prescription.

During his testimony, the 10-year veteran described how Anderson had begun sending him several different performance-enhancers, including a batch of injectable testosterone, "the cream" and "the clear." Giambi also testified that Anderson had advised him about the use of the human growth hormone he had obtained at the gym in Las Vegas.

Anderson kept him supplied with drugs through the All-Star break in July 2003, Giambi said. He said he had received a second and final batch of testosterone in July but opted not to use it because he had a knee injury and "didn't want to do any more damage."

"Did Mr. Anderson provide you with actual injectable testosterone?" Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Nedrow asked Giambi.

"Yes," replied Giambi.

Nedrow then referred Giambi to an alleged calender of drug use seized during a raid on Anderson's home. Addressing a January 2003 entry, the prosecutor said: "OK. And this injectable T, or testosterone, is basically a steroid, correct?"

"Yes."

"And did he talk to you about the fact it was a steroid at the time?"

"Yeah, I mean, I -- I don't know if we got into a conversation about it, but we both knew about it, yes," Giambi told the grand jury.

Giambi said Anderson described "the cream" and "the clear" as "an alternative to steroids, but it doesn't show on a steroid test.

"And he started talking about that it would raise your testosterone levels, you know, which would basically make it a steroid ... or maybe he said it's an alternative of taking an injectable steroid," Giambi said. "That might be a better way to put it."

Giambi also described for the grand jury how he had injected the testosterone and human growth hormone, which he said Anderson told him he could provide if Giambi couldn't get it elsewhere.

The growth hormone was taken "subcutaneous ... so like you would pinch the fat on your stomach" and inject the substance just below the skin, Giambi testified.

Asked whether the same were true for testosterone, Giambi told the prosecutor that it called for a regular injection.

"So, you would put it in your arm?" Nedrow asked.

"No, you wouldn't," Giambi said. "You'd put it in your ass."

Giambi said he wasn't worried about testing positive for testosterone because he had only taken the drug during the off-season, and Anderson assured him it would be out of his system before he was called for a steroid test.

Nedrow also asked Giambi about several different-colored pills Anderson provided; they were denoted on calendars as "Y" for yellow, "W" for white and "O" for orange, according to the ballplayer. Giambi testified that he didn't know what the pills were, though he thought the white one might have been Clomid, a female fertility drug that can enhance the effectiveness of testosterone. His use of the drug was reflected on a calendar, the prosecutor said.

"I don't know what they were," Giambi testified. "He didn't really explain them. He just had told me to take them. And it had -- he explained it has something to do with the system. ... He just said to take it in conjunction with all the stuff."

Giambi said Anderson had led him to believe that he was among a select few athletes dealing with the trainer. He made it "sound like I even needed a lottery ticket to even talk to him about it," Giambi said.

"Did he ever say, 'Don't be talking about getting stuff from me?' " asked Nedrow.

"That's what I mean by saying that he made it so, you know, private, that you know, 'Hey, don't say anything, don't talk about anything,' " Giambi told the grand jury. "You know, I assumed because he's Barry's trainer -- you know, Barry -- but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."

Giambi said he had spent somewhere between $7,000 and $10,000 on performance-enhancers provided by the trainer.

Toward the end of his grand jury testimony, which followed a 2003 season in which he nursed the knee injury and hit just .250, Giambi was asked, "Had this all not become public, would you still be using?"

"I didn't actually notice a huge difference, to be honest with you," Giambi answered. "I, of course, got injured this year. So, that's not a fair assessment, either. Maybe, yes, no, I don't know."

Finally, Nedrow asked Giambi whether Anderson had done anything to help the player with his weight-training regimen "or was it more on these things?"

Said Giambi: "It was more on these things."

Giambi, a five-time All-Star, played his first seven seasons in Oakland, emerging as one of the game's top stars. After the 2001 season, the 6-foot-3- inch, 235-pound slugger signed a seven-year, $120 million contract with the Yankees. Two months after testifying before the grand jury, Giambi reported to spring training this year looking considerably thinner, though he insisted he had lost just four pounds.

There was speculation that the weight loss stemmed from Giambi's stopping the use of steroids. Asked by reporters during spring training whether he ever used performance-enhancing drugs, Giambi said, "Are you talking about steroids? No."

Steroids talk swirled around Giambi again when he was sidelined during the season by mysterious ailments: first a reported intestinal parasite, then the tumor. Both he and the Yankees were tight-lipped about the tumor, refusing to disclose its location or treatment.

The New York Daily News reported Sept. 3 that the tumor was in his pituitary gland, which is at the base of the brain, and that Giambi's secrecy had stemmed from fears that news about the diagnosis would lead to further speculation about steroid use. Medical experts told The Chronicle that Clomid, the female fertility drug that Giambi was questioned about, can exacerbate a tumor of the pituitary gland. The drug's label warns physicians not to prescribe Clomid to patients with pituitary tumors.

Giambi ultimately played in only 80 games during the season and was left off the postseason roster. He finished with a .208 batting average, 12 home runs and 40 runs batted in.

Giambi also testified that he had helped his younger brother, Jeremy, who played with the A's from 2000 to 2002, to obtain drugs from Anderson.

Jeremy Giambi's testimony mirrored his brother's -- right down to Anderson's notifying him that he had tested positive for the steroid Deca Durabolin. Jeremy Giambi described to the grand jury how he had injected human growth hormone and testosterone he received from the trainer before the start of the 2003 season, when he played for the Boston Red Sox.

The younger Giambi testified that he knew testosterone was a steroid but that Anderson had described "the clear" and "the cream" only as undetectable "alternatives to steroids."

"For all I knew, it could have been baby lotion," Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury.

Jeremy Giambi, 30, also told the grand jury that he had taken several different-colored pills provided by Anderson even though he didn't know what they were.

Nedrow asked Jeremy Giambi why he trusted Anderson.

"I don't know, I guess -- I mean, you're right," Jeremy Giambi testified. "I probably shouldn't have trusted the guy. But I just felt like, you know, what he had done for Barry and, you know, I didn't think the guy would send me something that was, you know, Drano or something, you know, I mean, I hope he wouldn't."

Nedrow suggested Jeremy Giambi probably also trusted Anderson's drugs because his brother had taken them, too.

Said Jeremy: "Yeah, and Jason didn't die."

Giambi's career statistics
Home runs: 281

'95 6 OAK
'96 20
'97 20
'98 27
'99 33
'00 43 MVP
'01 38
'02 41 N.Y
'03 41
'04 12

thrsn0730 · 12-02-2004, 07:33 AM

The interesting thing about the whole 5% thing is that some players intentionally threw the test. Because they felt there was definitely a problem, they didn't take the test. That counted as a positive, but since there wasn't a penalty, it didn't affect them. That helped MLB reach the 5% barrier for official testing.

crewsor · 12-02-2004, 02:03 PM

Giambi's career stats could make a interesting argument against those who claim Barry Bonds stats shouldn't be marked with an asterisk should it be proven he used performance enhancers. Some say steroids don't really help you hit homeruns because first and foremost you need the raw abilty. I don't buy it.

dylanmarsh · 12-02-2004, 02:37 PM

I think what this substance abuse issue boils down to is a lack of integrity on Giambi's part. Giambi willingly took these substances to gain an artificial advantage over his fellow players and competition. The Yankees paid him based on his perceived natural abilities when, in actuality, part of it (an undeterminable percentage) was the result of substance abuse. On top of frauding the Yankees, Giambi furthered his lack of integrity and respect for the game by blatantly lying to the public about whether he took steroids. As a Red Sox fan, I believe the Yankees should be allowed to void Giambi's contract and seek a replacement.

Giambi's present and past actions are as bad, if not worse, than Pete Rose's alleged gambling practices. I'm not implying Giambi deserves a lifetime ban for his actions, but some form of discipline needs to be given to him since he seems to lack any form of self-discipline.

I believe Giambi and his brother are just the tip of a very large iceberg of substance abuse in baseball. It will be interesting how long it takes for the truth about Bonds to come out.

pan6467 · 12-02-2004, 08:24 PM

Does 1921 ring a bell to anyone?

The owners buried in deep at the end of 1919 and denied all rumors. Then all of a sudden people started talking in big ways. The players denied it (and I do believe in Shoeless Joe and Buck Weaver got the short end of the stick).

But in the end a man by the name Judge Keenesaw Mountain Landis, stood tall and expelled quite arguably baseball's greatest natural hitter and some great HOF caliber players, to save the sport from bad press and to set a standard. Because of this, the all time hits leader and pathological gambling addict Peter Edward Rose shall never be placed in the hallowed halls of Cooperstown.

That standard has been sadly destroyed not just by the players union but by the greedy, self centered players who no longer care about the fans.

In the early '80 there was talk of how the players had been partaking of illegal narcotics freely. Peter Ueberroth called quite a few players, most past their prime and the rest utility bench warmers to answer questions. Those Players many of whom this generation have never heard of are: Dale Berra; Keith Hernandez; Dave Parker; Enos Cabell; Lonnie Smith; Jeff Leonard; John Milner; Joaquin Andujar; Rod Scurry; Bill Madlock; Gary Matthews; Lee Lacy; Tim Raines; Al Holland; Dusty Baker; Lary Sorensen.... missing from the list are admitted drug addicts, Steve Howe (who had been suspended for drug violations), Dwight "Doc" Gooden, Darryl Strawberry and so on.

There were some from that list, such as Dale Berra, who were kicked out but primarily the players involved were set free to go about and play the game.

Had baseball taken a stand then and expelled all players involved like Judge Landis, perhaps today baseball would have a clean reputation and the scandal now facing it a pipe dream of someone writing a fictious novel. One can dream.

After years of watered down drug suspensions and allowing the players union to dictate the policies, Major League Baseball is now faced to take a stand and not just suspend but ban all users of steroids. Players Union be damned it is time for the owners, the fans and the government (if need be) to take a stand and say, "What is illegal for the rest of us, is illegal for you."

For allowing these player to partake in illegal activities and get away with it is not how this country should work. In 1921, it didn't and some of the greatest players in that era paid a price. So should players today who put themselves above the rules of the game and the laws of the land. For our laws mean nothing, if those who give our kids hopes and dreams during the summer, knowingly, willfully and without hesitation ignore them and break those laws.

crewsor · 12-03-2004, 04:18 AM

OK, So now it has come out that Bonds now admits he used steroids, but didn't know they wre steroids at the time. Yeah, that's believeable.

OOPS, I just used this arthritis cream, and now my body is swelling and getting lumpy. WTF?

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday.

Bonds told the federal grand jury last year that Greg Anderson, his personal trainer, told him that the substances he used in 2003 were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by the Chronicle.

The substances Bonds described were similar to ones known as "the clear" and "the cream," two steroids from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, the lab at the center of the steroid scandal.

Bonds' attorney, Michael Rains, said the leak of grand jury testimony was an attempt to smear his client. Grand jury transcripts are sealed and the Chronicle did not say who showed them the documents.

"My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains told the newspaper. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly."

Calls to Rains' office from The Associated Press went unanswered Thursday night.

Tony Serra, Anderson's lawyer, said Anderson "never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone."

The Chronicle story is the latest development this week in the more than yearlong BALCO probe. On Thursday, the paper reported Yankees slugger Jason Giambi told the grand jury he injected himself with human growth hormone in 2003 and also used steroids for at least three seasons.

Before the Bonds story was even published, U.S. Attorney Kevin Ryan said his office was concerned about the leaks to the Chronicle and asked the Justice Department to investigate.

Also, ABC News and ESPN the Magazine released excerpts of interviews with Conte, in which the BALCO founder admits to watching Olympic star Marion Jones inject herself in the leg with human growth hormone. Jones' attorneys denied she ever used performance-enhancing drugs. Conte's interview with ABC's "20/20" program will air Friday night.

Dozens of elite athletes testified before the grand jury last year, including baseball stars Bonds, Giambi and Gary Sheffield, and track stars Jones, Tim Montgomery and Kelli White.

The probe led to some athletes being banned from the Olympics and left a cloud of suspicion over others, like Jones, who were allowed to compete despite the investigation.

But Bonds is the biggest star of all, the holder of baseball's single-season home run record of 73 in 2001 and the man who could break Hank Aaron's career homer mark of 755 as early as next year.

Bonds ended last season with 703 homers and won his record seventh Most Valuable Player award. It is uncertain whether these admissions will taint his legacy in any way.

It is uncertain what punishment, if any, Bonds could receive from baseball, which didn't have penalties for steroid use until last year.

While discipline is spelled out for positive tests and criminal convictions from 2003 on, admission of illegal steroid use is not addressed, possibly giving baseball commissioner Bud Selig an opening to punish Bonds.

Selig repeatedly has called for year-round random testing and harsher penalties, but management and the players' association have failed to reach an agreement. The contract runs through the 2006 season.

"I've been saying for many months: I instituted a very, very tough program in the minor leagues on steroids in 2001. We need to have that program at the major league level," Selig said Thursday in Washington, D.C. "We're going to leave no stone unturned until we have that policy in place by spring training 2005."

Prosecutors confronted Bonds with documents dating back to his record-setting season of 2001 that allegedly detailed his use of many drugs, including human growth hormone, steroids and insulin. He said he believed he only used legal products to treat arthritis and fatigue.

Bonds danced around questions, saying he couldn't explain a calendar with the name "Barry" on it; he had never seen a bottle that says Depo-Testosterone; he had never heard of the drugs Clomid, modafinil and trenbolone; and he couldn't pronounce EPO.

Bonds testified that he didn't think any of the substances worked but kept using they out of loyalty to Anderson. He also said he never consulted with the Giants about what Anderson gave him.

"No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing."

Sheffield also testified to the grand jury that Bonds arranged for Anderson to give him "the clear," "the cream," and another steroid from Mexico but also did not know they were steroids.

Bonds said he never paid Anderson for drugs or supplements but did give the trainer $15,000 in cash in 2003 for weight training and a $20,000 bonus after his 73-homer season.

Bonds said that Anderson had so little money that he "lives in his car half the time." Asked by a juror why he didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer, Bonds answered: "One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up."

Averett · 12-03-2004, 07:26 AM

Testing during the season is fantastic. BUT, what about the off season? Players could use their steriod/mystery cream of their choice in December, bulk up, and it would be out of their system come spring training.

pixelbend · 12-03-2004, 08:26 AM

Yeah, but they will probably alert them 6 weeks before the tests anyway.

pan6467 · 12-03-2004, 02:05 PM

I just love how Bonds makes everything racist. How it is always the white man's fault for his actions. It's also the governmetn's fault and the owners..... where does Barry say, "I took them because I knew the more home runs I hit the more money I would make."?

= Bonds said [/FONT] that Anderson had so little money that he "lives in his car half the time." Asked by a juror why he didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer, Bonds answered: "One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up."

= "My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains told the newspaper. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly."

= Bonds testified that he didn't think any of the substances worked but kept using they out of loyalty to Anderson. He also said he never consulted with the Giants about what Anderson gave him.

"No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing."

12-03-2004, 02:07 PM

Drug testing IMO is completely worthless, a horrible abuse of peoples right to privacy. But then again, the amount of money these guys get paid for doing basically nothing is probably worse.

11-13-2003, 05:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
gov135 Junkie Location: Midwest	MLB to test randomly for steroids http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1661145 NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball will begin penalizing players for steroid use next season after learning that more than 5 percent of this year's tests came back positive. Suspicions of steroid use had run high in recent times as bulked-up sluggers set all sorts of home run records. Stars such as Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa denied taking the drugs. But on Thursday, the results came back and proved what many in baseball assumed and what former MVPs Jose Canseco and Ken Caminiti had already admitted. "Hopefully, this will, over time, allow us to completely eradicate the use of performance enhancement substances in baseball," commissioner Bud Selig said. MLB said of 1,438 anonymous tests this season, between 5 and 7 percent were positive. Under baseball's labor contract that took effect last fall, testing with penalties begins after any season in which more than 5 percent fail. And from now on, players will be identified. A first positive test for steroid use would result in treatment and a second in a 15-day suspension or fine of up to $10,000. The length of suspensions would increase to 25 days for a third positive test, 50 days for a fourth and one year for a fifth. The suspensions would be without pay. Testing with penalties will continue until positive tests drop below 2.5 percent in consecutive years. "There's a slight disagreement to where in that spectrum the exact number falls," said Gene Orza, the No. 2 official of the players' association. "It's a technical disagreement to the interpretation of the results." "I had no expectation one way or the other," he said. "I did know the claims that put the pressure on the players to address this problem the way they did were wildly inflated." Some players, notably on the Chicago White Sox, had called for even more stringent testing. "I guess if people want it bad enough they find their way around the system," Oakland pitcher Ted Lilly said after the announcement. "There's still other supplements and aids out there that aren't exactly steroids. If there's anything out there that can help, I'd imagine players would find it." ____________________________________________________ This is truly amazing. The steroid testing policy was only to kick in if five percent or more of players tested tested positive. The baseball players union negotiated this. They must never have thought that this level would be reached. I don't want to see baseball "exposed" or anything like that. I do want to see steroids removed from the game - and this is the best way to go about it. The thing I like most about the policy is the penalties are stiff and firm. One strike, you get a warning and extra testing. Two strikes, you get a fifteen game suspension. That would absolutely kill your team - its a harsh punishment for cheating. What are your thoughts?

11-13-2003, 08:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	Personally, I think that anyone who tests positive next season should be thrown out of the majors as examples. Any seasons after that, you put lower penalties in place. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

11-14-2003, 01:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Spartak Bang bang Location: New Zealand	Should be like the Olympics: you use performance enhancing drugs - your ass is grass. But at least they are doing something, should be fairly interesting to see how it develops and what players test positive. __________________ I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

11-14-2003, 08:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
captain Crazy	Thankfully MLB is finally getting around to doing something about a major problem. gov135, you are right- the players union never thought the 5% bar would be reached. They have had their head in the sand for years. All of a sudden players are hitting 70 hrs. Give me a break. __________________ captain

12-02-2004, 02:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
crewsor Women want me. Men fear me. Location: Maryland,USA	Giambi's career stats could make a interesting argument against those who claim Barry Bonds stats shouldn't be marked with an asterisk should it be proven he used performance enhancers. Some say steroids don't really help you hit homeruns because first and foremost you need the raw abilty. I don't buy it. __________________ We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

11-13-2003, 08:26 PM	#2 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	just fifteen games ba i say toss them out for a year the second time well at least they are trying

12-02-2004, 07:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
thrsn0730 Crazy Location: Mount Pleasant, SC	The interesting thing about the whole 5% thing is that some players intentionally threw the test. Because they felt there was definitely a problem, they didn't take the test. That counted as a positive, but since there wasn't a penalty, it didn't affect them. That helped MLB reach the 5% barrier for official testing.

12-02-2004, 02:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	I think what this substance abuse issue boils down to is a lack of integrity on Giambi's part. Giambi willingly took these substances to gain an artificial advantage over his fellow players and competition. The Yankees paid him based on his perceived natural abilities when, in actuality, part of it (an undeterminable percentage) was the result of substance abuse. On top of frauding the Yankees, Giambi furthered his lack of integrity and respect for the game by blatantly lying to the public about whether he took steroids. As a Red Sox fan, I believe the Yankees should be allowed to void Giambi's contract and seek a replacement. Giambi's present and past actions are as bad, if not worse, than Pete Rose's alleged gambling practices. I'm not implying Giambi deserves a lifetime ban for his actions, but some form of discipline needs to be given to him since he seems to lack any form of self-discipline. I believe Giambi and his brother are just the tip of a very large iceberg of substance abuse in baseball. It will be interesting how long it takes for the truth about Bonds to come out.

12-02-2004, 08:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Does 1921 ring a bell to anyone? The owners buried in deep at the end of 1919 and denied all rumors. Then all of a sudden people started talking in big ways. The players denied it (and I do believe in Shoeless Joe and Buck Weaver got the short end of the stick). But in the end a man by the name Judge Keenesaw Mountain Landis, stood tall and expelled quite arguably baseball's greatest natural hitter and some great HOF caliber players, to save the sport from bad press and to set a standard. Because of this, the all time hits leader and pathological gambling addict Peter Edward Rose shall never be placed in the hallowed halls of Cooperstown. That standard has been sadly destroyed not just by the players union but by the greedy, self centered players who no longer care about the fans. In the early '80 there was talk of how the players had been partaking of illegal narcotics freely. Peter Ueberroth called quite a few players, most past their prime and the rest utility bench warmers to answer questions. Those Players many of whom this generation have never heard of are: Dale Berra; Keith Hernandez; Dave Parker; Enos Cabell; Lonnie Smith; Jeff Leonard; John Milner; Joaquin Andujar; Rod Scurry; Bill Madlock; Gary Matthews; Lee Lacy; Tim Raines; Al Holland; Dusty Baker; Lary Sorensen.... missing from the list are admitted drug addicts, Steve Howe (who had been suspended for drug violations), Dwight "Doc" Gooden, Darryl Strawberry and so on. There were some from that list, such as Dale Berra, who were kicked out but primarily the players involved were set free to go about and play the game. Had baseball taken a stand then and expelled all players involved like Judge Landis, perhaps today baseball would have a clean reputation and the scandal now facing it a pipe dream of someone writing a fictious novel. One can dream. After years of watered down drug suspensions and allowing the players union to dictate the policies, Major League Baseball is now faced to take a stand and not just suspend but ban all users of steroids. Players Union be damned it is time for the owners, the fans and the government (if need be) to take a stand and say, "What is illegal for the rest of us, is illegal for you." For allowing these player to partake in illegal activities and get away with it is not how this country should work. In 1921, it didn't and some of the greatest players in that era paid a price. So should players today who put themselves above the rules of the game and the laws of the land. For our laws mean nothing, if those who give our kids hopes and dreams during the summer, knowingly, willfully and without hesitation ignore them and break those laws. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 12-02-2004 at 08:37 PM..

12-03-2004, 04:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
crewsor Women want me. Men fear me. Location: Maryland,USA	OK, So now it has come out that Bonds now admits he used steroids, but didn't know they wre steroids at the time. Yeah, that's believeable. OOPS, I just used this arthritis cream, and now my body is swelling and getting lumpy. WTF? SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday. Bonds told the federal grand jury last year that Greg Anderson, his personal trainer, told him that the substances he used in 2003 were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by the Chronicle. The substances Bonds described were similar to ones known as "the clear" and "the cream," two steroids from the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, the lab at the center of the steroid scandal. Bonds' attorney, Michael Rains, said the leak of grand jury testimony was an attempt to smear his client. Grand jury transcripts are sealed and the Chronicle did not say who showed them the documents. "My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains told the newspaper. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly." Calls to Rains' office from The Associated Press went unanswered Thursday night. Tony Serra, Anderson's lawyer, said Anderson "never knowingly provided illegal substances to anyone." The Chronicle story is the latest development this week in the more than yearlong BALCO probe. On Thursday, the paper reported Yankees slugger Jason Giambi told the grand jury he injected himself with human growth hormone in 2003 and also used steroids for at least three seasons. Before the Bonds story was even published, U.S. Attorney Kevin Ryan said his office was concerned about the leaks to the Chronicle and asked the Justice Department to investigate. Also, ABC News and ESPN the Magazine released excerpts of interviews with Conte, in which the BALCO founder admits to watching Olympic star Marion Jones inject herself in the leg with human growth hormone. Jones' attorneys denied she ever used performance-enhancing drugs. Conte's interview with ABC's "20/20" program will air Friday night. Dozens of elite athletes testified before the grand jury last year, including baseball stars Bonds, Giambi and Gary Sheffield, and track stars Jones, Tim Montgomery and Kelli White. The probe led to some athletes being banned from the Olympics and left a cloud of suspicion over others, like Jones, who were allowed to compete despite the investigation. But Bonds is the biggest star of all, the holder of baseball's single-season home run record of 73 in 2001 and the man who could break Hank Aaron's career homer mark of 755 as early as next year. Bonds ended last season with 703 homers and won his record seventh Most Valuable Player award. It is uncertain whether these admissions will taint his legacy in any way. It is uncertain what punishment, if any, Bonds could receive from baseball, which didn't have penalties for steroid use until last year. While discipline is spelled out for positive tests and criminal convictions from 2003 on, admission of illegal steroid use is not addressed, possibly giving baseball commissioner Bud Selig an opening to punish Bonds. Selig repeatedly has called for year-round random testing and harsher penalties, but management and the players' association have failed to reach an agreement. The contract runs through the 2006 season. "I've been saying for many months: I instituted a very, very tough program in the minor leagues on steroids in 2001. We need to have that program at the major league level," Selig said Thursday in Washington, D.C. "We're going to leave no stone unturned until we have that policy in place by spring training 2005." Prosecutors confronted Bonds with documents dating back to his record-setting season of 2001 that allegedly detailed his use of many drugs, including human growth hormone, steroids and insulin. He said he believed he only used legal products to treat arthritis and fatigue. Bonds danced around questions, saying he couldn't explain a calendar with the name "Barry" on it; he had never seen a bottle that says Depo-Testosterone; he had never heard of the drugs Clomid, modafinil and trenbolone; and he couldn't pronounce EPO. Bonds testified that he didn't think any of the substances worked but kept using they out of loyalty to Anderson. He also said he never consulted with the Giants about what Anderson gave him. "No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing." Sheffield also testified to the grand jury that Bonds arranged for Anderson to give him "the clear," "the cream," and another steroid from Mexico but also did not know they were steroids. Bonds said he never paid Anderson for drugs or supplements but did give the trainer $15,000 in cash in 2003 for weight training and a $20,000 bonus after his 73-homer season. Bonds said that Anderson had so little money that he "lives in his car half the time." Asked by a juror why he didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer, Bonds answered: "One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up." __________________ We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

12-03-2004, 07:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	Testing during the season is fantastic. BUT, what about the off season? Players could use their steriod/mystery cream of their choice in December, bulk up, and it would be out of their system come spring training. __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

12-03-2004, 08:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
pixelbend Too hot in the hot tub!	Yeah, but they will probably alert them 6 weeks before the tests anyway. __________________ But I don't want ANY Spam!

12-03-2004, 02:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	I just love how Bonds makes everything racist. How it is always the white man's fault for his actions. It's also the governmetn's fault and the owners..... where does Barry say, "I took them because I knew the more home runs I hit the more money I would make."? = Bonds said [/FONT] that Anderson had so little money that he "lives in his car half the time." Asked by a juror why he didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer, Bonds answered: "One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up." = "My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains told the newspaper. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly." = Bonds testified that he didn't think any of the substances worked but kept using they out of loyalty to Anderson. He also said he never consulted with the Giants about what Anderson gave him. "No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing." __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-03-2004, 02:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
thinktank Guest	Drug testing IMO is completely worthless, a horrible abuse of peoples right to privacy. But then again, the amount of money these guys get paid for doing basically nothing is probably worse.