spoonbill

Just wanted to see what everyone thought about the Saints, in particular, and the NFC South, in general.

fearofmear

I was raised in New Orleans so , yeah I am a huge Saints fan. I think they will be a 8-8 or 9-7 team and might squeak into the playoffs depending on how competitive it is for the two wild cards. Tampa is still the class of the division. Atlanta will come back down to earth this season.

BigGov

The Saints need a miracle this year to get into the playoffs. It doesn't help that Brooks is coming off of shoulder surgury too. The loss of Sammy Knight is going to hurt alot too.

The Falcons weren't a fluke last year, they've been a team to watch the past few years. Now they have the weapons, and Vick is in his second full year, that's the breakout year for almost every quarterback.

The Bucs still have a great defense, and if they get Jamal Anderson, they might have half of an offense for once.

The Panthers...Well...The Panthers are the Panthers, aren't much to be scared of, but if you underestimate them, you could lose.

Saints Schedule:

09/07 at Seattle - Win
09/14 Houston - Win
09/21 at Tennessee - Loss
09/28 Indianapolis - Loss
10/05 at Carolina - Loss
10/12 Chicago - Win
10/19 at Atlanta - Win
10/26 Carolina - Win
11/02 at Tampa Bay - Loss
11/16 Atlanta - Loss
11/23 at Philadelphia - Loss
11/30 at Washington - Loss
12/07 Tampa Bay - Loss
12/14 N.Y. Giants - Loss
12/21 at Jacksonville - Win
12/28 Dallas - Loss because of Parcels having 15 games to create a team

6-10, no wild card.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

crow_daw

I dig the Saints, but I don't follow them very closely. Do they still have Deuce?

Cause he's the bomb, and a huge factor for their offense.

I think that would be a big determining factor in their success this year.

__________________
"We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

BigGov

Deuce doesn't have Turley in front of him though, that hurts the offense more than anything.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

Well, I have season tickets this year, so I hope <b>Jimmy4</b> is incorrect in 6-10. Looked at his predictions, though, and hear are my thoughts:

1) No way they lose to the Colts in the Dome this year.

2) The Panthers are up-and-coming, but how can anyone predict their competitiveness until the QB situation is settled? Also, both games are before the halfway mark, which won't allow Delhomme, were he to start, enough time to settle into things. If Weinke starts, enough said.

3) Saints will not lose at home against the Gaints or Dallas. One, has a drunk for QB, the other, would consider that an improvement. Don't put too much stock in Parcells' ability, especially given the dearth of talent he's facing in the Bid D.

4) Assuming that schedule is correct, how in the hell did the Saints get the Colts in New Orleans two years in a row? Also, how's the Redskins get the Saints at home two years in a row? I know there aren't college-type "home-n-away" agreements in the pros, but this is a little strange.

5) Saints will win two BIG road games against last year's playoff teams. Not sure who it will be, but you can't deny the Saints offense, especially on the road.


Now I've branded myself the typical Saints fan, but I admit there's a dimishing amount of logic when the subject is the Saints, so be warned.

spoonbill

Puhleeeze! Turley was a total assbag, and will not be missed by one of the deepest offensive lines in the game. Check your info before posting this tripe.

BigGov

Got the schedule off of the Saints website.

Now about your points.

1) No way? There was no way the Lions or the Bengals would get a win last year, but by some miracle it happened. It's called an upset, and considering the Colts with another year of Dungy's D and Edgerrin coming back strong, it shouldn't even be called an upset.

2) How? Because any team can win on any given Sunday. Fox isn't that incompetant, and last time I looked, the Panthers were 7-9 last year, a very respectable record.

3) The Giants are a tough team. Much tougher than you see them. Parcell has an incredible amount of talent to work with, Campo was just Jerry Jones's puppet, nothing more. Not to mention the fact that Parcells has improved on his new teams record the first year he was there. The Cowboys were 5-11 last year and are in a much tougher division, so the wins will come from somewhere.

4) Your Saints lied to us all then.

5) Yes, I'm denying it. Any other playoff offense you put them up against and they're even, if not worse. Hell, I'd take Tampa's offense over the Saints. Granted, I don't like my choices on either side there, but I'd take Tampa. Come on, Tennessee, Philly, the Giants, Washington, all of them should dominate the Saints.

Oh, and Turley was a lot more than you give him credit for, and just because a team has depth doesn't mean it will be good. From Tennessee to the Giants, the Saints will be facing teams with great rushers. You might want to buy Brooks an ass pillow because he's gonna be laying on his for many, many, weeks.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

fearofmear

Turley was a malcontent who ruined locker room chemistry. Getting rid of him and sending him off to fuck over the Rams was a good thing. The Saints O-line has some nice depth so no real lost there.

spoonbill

1) Can't argue with most of your points, but still don't agree with your prediction. James is the man, or was, at least, and should be stronger this year. Manning, what can I say? Damn good QB. However, no matter how much Dungy prods his D, they're still not where they need to be to stop the Saints O. Lions game was a tough loss on the road, one the Saints still had a shot to win, despite way too many turnovers. The Bengals loss, also on the road and in December and Brooks' shoulder was completely fucked. Now that's not an excuse completely, since strange things can happen on any given week, but how can the same team that handed the Super Bowl champs their hats two weeks prior fall apart against the Bungles? However, this will all be moot, if Brooks doesn't recover from shoulder surgery.

2) Much easier making 7-9 with a last place schedule, which they'll have again this year. All I got to say to that.

3) When you say much tougher division, are you insinuating that the NFC East is tougher than the South? I'm sorry, but you really must be smoking something to say something like that. Furthermore, let's play a little exercise: Name for me Dallas' starting QB, RB, WR (#1 only), best Lineman (both sides of the ball), best LB, and best CB. If you're a Dallas fan, fine, I'll accept your bias. The Eagles are the class of the East, by a wide margin.

4) Huh? I think I was trying to point out how strange it is to play the same, non-division team at home two years in a row. Really just making a point, so no response to this is necessary.

5) No team dominated the Saints last year, and the same will be true this year. Off weeks and injuries happen, but, even with those, every game was close last year.

6) Turley was a jackass and overrated. Look at the aforementioned Lions game last year, when Robert Porcher made Turley look like a paper tiger. He'll fold for the Rams just the same.

BigGov

1) The Colts don't have a good D? They got Dwight Feeney against a 2nd string offensive line after Roaf and Turley are gone. If they both weren't that good, their replacements aren't any better. If the replacements are better, then Haslett is a moron that can't coach, which means the Saints will do worse than 6-10.

2) They still won 7 games, and that ain't easy.

3) I ain't insinuating, I'm stating an obvious fact. Eagles, Super Bowl contenders for the past few years. Giants, went to the Super Bowl a few years ago. Redskins, just waiting for it to all come together, have more talent than alot of teams in the league, including the Saints. Dallas's #1 QB is still in question, last one was Chad Hutchinson, but look for Quincy to make a comeback. RB is probably Troy Hambrick as he was challenging Emmitt for time last year. WR, either Joey Galloway or Antonio Bryant, or even possibly new pickup Terry Glenn. OL, Larry Allen? DL Leroy Glover, you know, one of the few players the Saints did have. LB either Dexter Coakley or Dat Nguyen. CB Terrance Newman. S Roy Williams. Their D stacks up better than the Saints. Oh, and I've despised the Cowboys all my life.

4) Ok

5) And two years ago the Eagles lost only 2 games by more than 3 points. which would have given them a 14-2 record instead of 11-5. That's close.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

1) "Second string" offensive line? C'mon, let's be honest here. The rest of your syllogism falls apart after the first clause. Roaf was a declining player. Turley had his moments, but was not the best team player. Their's is still a team with 4 #1s starting, so stick it.

2) Here's my problem with your reasoning thus far. You state that the Saints suck and won 9 games, but the Panthers are dangerous and won 7 games. Why is it nothing on the one hand to miss the playoffs by 1/2 a game, but an accomplishment to never have been in the running? This only works if each team played in different leagues all together, which isn't the case.

3) Eagles, no arguement.

Giants, hang by the thread that keeps the vodka out of Collins' hands. Three seasons ago? Man, let's stay relevant here.

Redskins, will likely not amount to much as long as Snyder is making personnel decisions, which means never.

Dallas, same thing, but replace Snyder with Jones. You know, for someone who claims to despise the Cowboys, you are certainly conversant with their roster, but that could just be a little web searching, but I still have my doubts. Your listing of the Cowboys sounds like this: No QB of note; a running back that couldn't beat out Emmitt even in his declining years; WR (notice I asked you to list their #1) made up of, in football terms, an old man, a child, and a player referred to by none other than the Tuna himself as "she"; a OG who WAS the man, but definitely seen better days (are you watching too many Classic reruns from the 90s?); Leroi (a name I love, by the way) was cool, but, like Pat Swilling before him, couldn't perform the same minus a strong supporting cast; Dat Nguyen, just a bit undersized to be a LB, don't you think; and one good CB and S. This team is at best two seasons from contending.

The East is a bunch of has-beens, neverwills, and wannabes, with the exception of the Eagles.

5) Huh? First, relevance? Second, who cares? Third, did they make the Super Bowl? Fourth, huh?

Jesus Malverde

I like the Saints, but Aaron Brooks has to step it up this year. He makes way too many mistakes and stupid decisions. He has already had a few years to mature and improve, and he hasn't. Deuce will have a solid year, but for the team to go anywhere their quarterback has to do better.

__________________
...I'm that cat by the bar toasting to the good life...

spoonbill

I totally agree. Brooks has his moments of brilliance, then, well, not so brilliant. Don't know if it's bad habits or bad coaching, but, when he gets rattled, there's a tendency to throw off his back foot. Hope he's healthy and a little more aged.

jumpingbeans

None of this Matters....BUCS will win it all again !!!!!

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spoonbill

WHATEVER!

iceman2032

I don't really hate the saints, I just hate their player James Allen. I had a class with him and he was in one of our group projects. He did hardly any work, and the work he did do was so poor that a grade schooler could have shown him up in terms of quality

spoonbill

Don't hate the player, hate the (college) game.

BadForm

The Saints should have a good year and be in the hunt for a wild card spot.

They fell apart last season after the injuries to Brooks and Deuce, and the wearing down of the DTs.

The Saints line should be better than last year. Turley was a great right tackle, but mediocre at best on the left side. He was never a strong run blocker and consistently missed blocks against the better defensive ends. LeCharles Bentley should make the pro-bowl this season. Fontenot is a bit of a question. He was solid at the beginning of the season, but wore down as the season progressed.

The defense should be better (can it be worse) especially if Sullivan is able to contribute some. Norman Hand and Grady Jackson were so out of shape that by the end of the season they were useless. They were outplayed by never-beens Martin Chase and Kenny Smith. Sammy Knight played poorly last season, and age may have taken enough of his physical skills that his savvy play can no longer overcome his lack of speed. The corners last season, who were consistenly maligned by the press, were almost never healthy. Fred Thomas, a good cover corner against smaller receivers (i.e. Marvin Harrison) spent half a season with a cast on his arm, while Dale Carter was suspended before breaking his arm.

BigGov

A major problem is that with the exception of Seattle, Tampa and Jacksonville (unless Fred Taylor is injured), the rest of the teams they face are mostly passing based and losing a veteran safety is devastating. Look at the Green Bay Packers after Leroy Butler retired, they've used about 4 guys and still haven't found a guy that can do even half as good as Leroy.

2) Here's my problem with your reasoning thus far. You state that the Saints suck and won 9 games, but the Panthers are dangerous and won 7 games. Why is it nothing on the one hand to miss the playoffs by 1/2 a game, but an accomplishment to never have been in the running? This only works if each team played in different leagues all together, which isn't the case.

The Panthers aren't going to win any titles, but they are a very very young team and this year are entering in with 16 more games of experience and 16 more games of Fox's system. The Saints are getting on the other side of things, and with these new guys they're throwing into their system, it's going to take them time to adjust. It also isn't any good that they get Julius Peppers twice before mid-season as he is extremely focused and has been training like he has something to prove. Notice how I have it set up? They lose the first one, but win the rematch after the new line learns how to handle Peppers and company after having to play a few weeks up against insanely good lines.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

<b>Jimmy4</b>, I believe you overestimate Sammy's gifts as a safety. Plus, the Pack never replaced Butler with anyone nearly as talented as Tebucky Jones, so I don't agree with you here.

And, yes, the Panthers are young, but so are the Saints, especially compared to the Bucs.

BigGov

Experience comes before physical abilities as a safety. Rod Woodson's been around this long for a reason. Tebucky is very good, but he still needs some time to adjust to the Saints defense. He can't gamble as much because the cast around him just isn't as good.

The Bucs don't need to be young though because their defense is dominating and they have played in the system since Dungy came over. The Saints have had Haslett as a coach for how many years? I believe, after examining many teams, that a coach has 3 years until his system can 100% be installed. After that it's up to the players, if they don't perform, either the coach or the players need to go.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

Speed_Gibson

[almost completely ignorant of football question]
just how many games are there in a normal American football season? I am thinking 16 based on some posts here, but just curious. I know that the two hour long commercial with football squeezed in known as the Superbowl is somewhere in late january, but when does the season start normally?
[almost completely ignorant of football question]

....wanders off to leave the thread to actual "football" fans.

bundy

I kinda like the Saints... even though i´m a Swans fan... but ever since Spider Everett moved to Hawthorn, well thats their future over...

oh, hang on...

wrong sport...

i guess i like these Saints... i like the sound of this Deuce character

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Ohayo!!!

BadForm

Signing Sammy Knight to the contract he wanted would have created long term cap problems for the Saints, and I think T. Jones is an upgrade.

spoonbill

Um, I believe Woodson began his career as a CB, then, as age set in, moved to S. As for comparing Knight to Woodson, Knight couldn't carry his jock. I'll credit Knight with being a savvy player, but a Pro Bowl-calibur S he is not.

NEWSFLASH: Dungy coaches the Colts, so his effects on the Bucs defense is nil, with the exception of personnel. Also, Haslett is beginning his 4th season, so what you're really saying is that the Saints will kick ass this year. I'm glad you've finally seen the point I've tried to make all along.

BigGov

The Bucs defense has not been changed since Dungy left. He installed the system and it didn't change at all. If you ask the Bucs players they credit Dungy, yes, Dungy, for a large part of their Super Bowl win.

And actually the grace period ended LAST year. An example is Donovan McNabb with the Eagles. Last year was his third year, and he had a much better understanding of the offense.

Also, I don't think you understand me, I'm not saying the Saints are the Detroit Lions of 2004, I'm just saying that this year is going to be an off year. How many teams in the AFC finished within 1 game of the playoffs last year? That's how close the NFL is now, but this year is going to be an off year for them and the lack of chemistry is going to hurt them early in the season in close games.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

Ok, so you're saying that last year should have been the year for the Saints. To further your point, you mention Donovan McNabb, which I believe to be a decent point of comparison.

Yet, it appears that you fail to realize that Aaron Brooks has not had 3 full years as a starter. His first start was after the halfway point of the 2000 season, which, by the way, also coincided with the Saints first ever playoff win. Brooks battled for the starting position, and won, in 2001. Last year, he started off great, even hopefully by your standards, but was injured in the second Bucs game (which the Saints won).

So, I agree with you that it takes at least 3 years to fully begin to grasp an offense, but I hope you can see why there's a sense of optimism this year.

Fagabeefe

You mean the 'Aints hav FANS?

__________________
If you can't make fun of yourself...

Well at least there's always the French!

Those chese-eating surrender monkeys!

BadForm

The Saints' have a large and devoted fan base in New Orleans and throughout the Gulf Coast. With the possible exception of the last of the Dikta years, they have always drawn well despite being one of the smallest markets and the poor economic condition of the city since the oil bust. Saints' fans love their team and have stuck with them threw many long years. They may wear bags on their heads proclaiming the team the Aint's, but they still show up for the games unlike most other teams in any sport. Take the Raiders for example. They have been consistently good for several seasons now and still fail to sell out their games.

spoonbill

Well said, BadForm.

What kinda name is <b>Fagabeefe</b>???

BadForm

Thanks.

It frustrates me when everyone (ESPN, SI, etc) complains about the New Orleans market and discusses moving the Saints. When the Hornets moved to town, a lot of critics complained that New Orleans had a shot at the NBA and didn't deserve a team. However, the Jazz were one of the top drawing teams in the NBA during the 70's, and the team moved because the owner decided he would rather live in Utah. Today the move would never be approved because teams must show that the market can't support the team (either with crowds or stadium). Charlotte is getting a new team despite having horrible crowds the last few seasons.

BigGov

Yea, true, but it's not just Brooks, it's the entire team. See the games Detmer and Feeley won, oh yea, with a severly sub-par receiving core.

I see why you're optimistic, any fan (except in Arizona) normally is. I just highly doubt the Saints will do good this year because of their schedule and the other factors that they are going to have to deal with.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

frankx

The Saints will not be played on my television or supported in my home any more. Looooong-suffering fans in New Orleans have invested far too much time, money and support into a team that gets fans worked up and hopeful, then dashes their hopes year after year after year without a single viable excuse. Thanks, but this year, I'll find another NFL team to throw my support behind.

As for the possibility of the Aints moving, I say don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

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Louisiana: We're Not ALL Drunken Cajun Wackos, But That's Our Tourism Campaign

Explosive

Carolina will win the south, watch out! Their D is awesome.

BigGov

Except the Bucs have a much better D, have a much better offense, and the Falcons can beat their offense easily. Best the Panthers can get is third in the NFC south, but the Saints are still likely to finish higher than them.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

Candidate for the first person in line to buy playoff tickets, eh? Don't give me any b.s. about long-suffering; I had season tickets in 1980. Pretty much the same team that finished 8-8 in '79, went 1-15 the next year. Supposed to be the first playoff year, but turned into one of the worst.

It's not like we're talking anything more than football, so live with the ups and downs of sports in general. Sheesh!

As for the money spent upon the Saints, what's your point? You already said you won't watch or attend, so move on to other topics.

Sorry, but you really don't seem capable of handling the highs and lows inherent in rooting for any sports teams. Most people accept the low points in exchange for the possibility (note: possibility) of the high points.

frankx

And don't you give ME any BS about not being entitled to feeling repeatedly let down year after year by the Aint's because I wasn't first in line to buy season tickets twenty three years ago. Is it a contest of some sort? Alright, I give, you win. You're the bigger fan!!! Here's your paper bag.

Yes, spoonbill, I have attended many games, and watched many games on TV, and bought Saints merchandise AND season tickets for many years, the same as you. I once held the sincere hope that the Saints would eventually turn into a good professional football team. I no longer feel this way.

And as long as we're talking about the ratio of ups and downs, Saints fans have had more than enough downs. The question is, after 37 years, when do the ups begin? Maybe the Saints WILL do well this year (and I sincerely hope they do), but isn't that what Saints fans say EVERY year?

That's what I think about the Saints.

If you don't want to know what I think about the Saints, don't start a thread asking what everyone thinks about the Saints.

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Louisiana: We're Not ALL Drunken Cajun Wackos, But That's Our Tourism Campaign

BigGov

There's a much easier way to settle this.

Is Philly better than the Saints? Yes.
Are the Giants? Yes.
The Redskins? Yes.
The Packers? Yes.
The 49ers? Yes.
The Rams? Yes.
The Bucs? Yes.
The Falcons? Yes.

There's 8 teams that people that have half a brain would take over the Saints any day of the week. As you know, 6 teams make the playoffs. That leaves the Saints 3 spots out.

__________________
One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. They each bought a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage, three flies landed in each of their pints. The Englishman pushed his beer away in disgust. The Scotsman fished the fly out of his beer and continued drinking it, as if nothing had happened. The Irishman, too, picked the fly out of his drink but then held it out over the beer and yelled "SPIT IT OUT, SPIT IT OUT, YOU BASTARD!"

spoonbill

Yes, Jimmy4, I guess I have only slightly less than half a brain. Or, perhaps, I've avoided the rectal-cranial inversion you definitely suffer from.

As for you, frankx, why're you still replying? Honestly, this isn't about who's the bigger fan; you're not watching the Saints this year, so why care. Go find a thread pertintent to the team-of-the-week you've decided to back.

I'll give you some credit, though. Your choice of rooting for a team that doesn't disappoint (let me know which one THAT is) at least guarantees you have a team all the way to the Superbowl.