Baseball 2008 - Page 4 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

djtestudo · 12-20-2007, 04:41 PM

As long as they don't want to have a chance at winning anything, that's fine for them.

He's got a 4.31 ERA career, 1.4 career WHIP. And he's making $12 million per now.

THAT'S why teams will go for Bedard: he's a legitimate ace that will be cheap at least two more years.

QuasiMondo · 01-14-2008, 01:22 PM

The Yankees have pulled out of the Johan Santana sweepstakes by pulling Phillip Hughes off the table. This just leaves the Mets and Red Sox as the only two serious contenders for him.

Personally, I think the Twins are asking too much for him, last report I got is that they wanted Minaya to give up seven minor league prospects for him. Way too much to give up, especially for a guy that's entering the final year of his contract.

Glory's Sun · 01-14-2008, 01:31 PM

Santana will still be in a Twins uni come opening day. He won't move until trade deadline. The price will drop a bit then because he'll be practically demanding a trade, and the Twins GM will realize that he's asking way too much.

Well.. that's the way I think it will go. I just don't see the blockbuster mega deal happening anymore. I think teams are just tired of the bullshit.

QuasiMondo · 01-14-2008, 02:02 PM

It is a lot of bullshit, and the Twins don't want to face up to the fact that they're not going to get what they're asking for him. They're better off letting him run his final year out and trying to make a run for the playoffs with him.

kutulu · 01-15-2008, 01:16 PM

The whole thing is foolish on the Twins' part. If he walks they get a first round pick and a sandwich pick. The offers they are getting a much better than that.

Cross-Over · 01-15-2008, 03:50 PM

I think the Twins truly believe they can contend for the playoffs, as they have many other years despite outside doubt. There is a revenue factor to consider as well, and if they trade away Santana for what they and their fans consider below market value, that doesn't bode well for attendance. Ideally, I agree they should trade Santana, but I would think they are considering the present and day-to-day operations as well.

Glory's Sun · 01-23-2008, 09:28 AM

Tulu gets 6 years 30 million. Pretty hefty contract for an unproven player.

Santana still not moved.. everybody still thinks the yanks will end up with him. Looks like Bedard may end up in Seattle.. which would be a decent fit.

kutulu · 01-28-2008, 12:42 PM

Bedard to Seattle is pretty much a done deal. I like anything that keeps him in the AL. Now if only we can make sure that Santana stays in the AL as well....

That is a lot of cash for Tulo, he has just over one full year of service time. At least they bought out his first year of free agency.

Ilow · 01-28-2008, 02:48 PM

A MN source says Santana deal will be done within 10 days. Don't know what is different now than two months ago?

QuasiMondo · 01-28-2008, 04:09 PM

What's different is that Minnesota has overplayed their hand, leaving the Mets as the only team willing to deal with them anymore, and that's because they really need an ace in their rotation.

pan6467 · 01-29-2008, 08:11 AM

The more CC says, it isn't about the money the more I believe it is. Thome and Manny both said it wasn't about the money and both went for relatively the same money elsewhere. For Thome it was an extra year, for Manny the way the money was paid out.

On the other hand, if you can't sign him now and you honestly gave your best offer trade his ass out of here and get someone who wants to be here... well that maybe more difficult, trying to find someone who wants to play in Cleveland.... ok so keep CC one more year if he doesn't sign and with the money saved get a big bat and go full bore to winning it all this year.

Glory's Sun · 01-29-2008, 09:16 AM

Well with Manny, you can't really blame him for leaving when Boston throws $20 million in his face.

As far as the Mets still being the only team in the running for Santana.. don't kid yourself. The skanks and Bo'Sox are still very much in the running. It's really just down to who will give up something first. I have a feeling he'll end up in pinstripes. It would be a bad bad move for Steinbrenner Jr to lose a deal right off the bat to Boston.

pan6467 · 01-29-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Well with Manny, you can't really blame him for leaving when Boston throws $20 million in his face.

Yeah but the money wasn't that much different for Manny, just the way it was paid.

With Thome it was a year's guarantee, that's it, the money was exactly the same.

I think with CC it maybe a combination, the Indians want to make deferred payments and only a 4 year contract and he may want the 7 or 8 someone will offer him. The Tribe is ready to throw him upwards of 20 Mil a year but they don't do long term like 7 years, and I don't blame them, but it can also mean the difference between CC making 80 mil and CC making 140-160 mil.

I think anyone that wants to pay that much for that long for a pitcher who can't win big games but can overpower weaker teams, is ludicrous. Give him 4 years maintain team options for 3 or 4 so that in that 4th-5th-6th contract year when he blows out his arm or needs some type of Tommy John surgery, you don't have him eating you payroll away.

With the Santana deal, CC I'm sure is watching closely to what Santana gets once he's moved and signs.

QuasiMondo · 01-29-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

As far as the Mets still being the only team in the running for Santana.. don't kid yourself. The skanks and Bo'Sox are still very much in the running. It's really just down to who will give up something first. I have a feeling he'll end up in pinstripes. It would be a bad bad move for Steinbrenner Jr to lose a deal right off the bat to Boston.

I doubt that. Boston's in it only if the Yankees are in it, otherwise I don't think they'll try to compete with a NL team for his services.

Glory's Sun · 01-29-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan

With the Santana deal, CC I'm sure is watching closely to what Santana gets once he's moved and signs.

I doubt CC would ever get what Santana does. He might deserve it, but I just don't see it happening. :shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasi

I doubt that. Boston's in it only if the Yankees are in it, otherwise I don't think they'll try to compete with a NL team for his services.

why wouldn't they compete with an NL team? Minnesota really likes Ellsbury and Lester. They've proven themselves in big games i.e. World Series games.

With Boston getting Aardsma from the White Sox, that just gives them another IMO disposable pitcher in the deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlb.com

The Mets and Red Sox still appear to be the front-runners. Of all the contenders, the Mets have the biggest need for starting pitching and have appeared recently to be the most aggressive candidate.

A report from Impacto Deportivo on Monday said that Mets outfielder Carlos Gomez has been pulled from the Caribbean World Series, fueling speculation that a deal could be close. But Mets officials told The New York Post that it was their plan to limit Gomez's games and that his absence was not a sign that a trade is forthcoming.

The Mets package has been rumored to include Gomez and pitchers Delios Guerra, Kevin Mulvey and Philip Humber. The Twins would prefer for the Mets to add prospect Fernando Martinez to the deal, but New York has thus far been reluctant to part with the outfielder.

The Red Sox have stuck by their two packages, one headlined by left-hander Jon Lester and the other by outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Twins officials shot down the rumors this weekend that Lester had been taken out of any of Boston's proposals.

Twins officials also said that they remain in contact with the Yankees and do not view the club to be out of the running. But multiple reports have stated that the Yankees are backtracking. That sentiment was reinforced by New York general manager Brian Cashman, who said recently that he would prefer to pass over Santana and keep his young pitching.

QuasiMondo · 01-29-2008, 01:12 PM

Quote:

why wouldn't they compete with an NL team?

Because you know and I know that you know that I know that Boston doesn't need him, and the only reason they would jump back into this would be to prevent the Yankees from getting him. If he's in the NL, he's not a threat to them except for interleague play and if the Mets somehow end up in the World Series.

This just in:

Quote:

Originally Posted by usatoday.com

The New York Mets have agreed to a trade for two-time Cy Young Award winner Johan Santana, giving up four prospects to acquire the left-handed ace of the Minnesota Twins, according to two high-ranking Twins officials with knowledge of the talks and a person close to Santana.
The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.

The Mets paid a high price in prospects to land Santana, agreeing to send the Twins outfielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey.

The deal would give the Mets the much-needed ace at the front of their rotation. Santana won the American League Cy Young Award in 2004 and 2006 and is 93-44 lifetime. He went 15-13 with a 3.33 ERA for the Twins last season. Santana has struck out at least 235 batters each of the past four seasons.

Oye Como Va

Ilow · 01-29-2008, 04:56 PM

Yeah, just saw this. I know that every team's fans tend to overvalue their own talent, but although all of these Mets prospects are rated as top 10, but it really seems like the Red Sox and Yankee offers were far better, particularly considering the lack of major league experience of the Mets prospects.
As a Sox fan, I'm glad he didn't go to another AL team (read: Yankees), but in the wussy NL, he could be the first pitcher to have an ERA of 0.00 for an entire season.

Humber, a 25-year-old right-hander, has made one start and four relief appearances for the Mets during the past two years, and went 11-9 with a 4.27 ERA last season for Triple-A New Orleans. The 22-year-old Gomez batted .232 in 125 at-bats with New York last year and .275 with 19 steals in the minors.

Guerra, who turns 19 in April, was 2-6 with a 4.01 ERA at Class A St. Lucie, and Mulvey, who will be 23 in May, was 12-10 with a 3.20 ERA in 26 starts at Double-A Binghamton and one at New Orleans.

QuasiMondo · 01-29-2008, 05:15 PM

Word has it that Omar Minaya threw in the Brooklyn Bridge just to sweeten the deal.

djtestudo · 01-29-2008, 06:56 PM

I hear that these guys are after Minaya for what he did to Bill Smith.

And supposedly they turned down better offers from the Yankees and Red Sox.

Just hope Bedard gets done soon. Roberts to the Cubs should follow soon after.

guy44 · 01-29-2008, 08:58 PM

Man I don't know what the hell the Twins were thinking. They don't get the top two prospects the Mets have, don't get any of the things they really need (CF who can step in right now and play good D, shortstop, second baseman) and they had way better offers from both NY and BOS. Not to mention that they could have waited until they got exactly what they needed to make a trade.

Frankly, they shoulda gone with Seattle's Bedard offer (Adam Jones, ready to play CF, Truinifel, future SS, plus some top pitching prospects). They got robbed - I just can't believe how wrong they got this trade.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-29-2008, 09:44 PM

Talking to a disgruntled Minnesota fan, most twinks fans are idiots... somehow they ignore the fact that, as noted these weren't even the top prospects from the Mets whether pitching or position; one of the guys is coming off of Tommy Johns; going off of memory one of the pitchers record is something like 14-16 with a 4.40+ era after 3 seasons of the minors.

So looking at the situation... we let go argubly the best pitcher in the entire MLB for, using ESPN's Buster Olny's words, what was probably our 4th best offer.

This doesn't note the fact that we gave away Garza, who was supposed to be our top pitching prospect, if Boof Bonser is the next Radke, we were expecting some fire from Garza. We lost Silva, which as a Twins fan I don't mind, too many years of a deep ball liability... all the same our line up is shored up by Liriano, a phenom in his own right, but we have no way of gauging how he'll be, he hasn't thrown in 1.5 years.

The ALCS is far too stacked, this trade obviously kills us from contention for at least 2-3 seasons, and that is probably optimistic. Yeah it was great we signed Morneau for something like 5-6, but what the fuck does it matter, we just lost Torii, and we still have are lacking a legitimate power hitter that can shore up the line up: Cuddyer is not an answer.

Far too many people up here are banking on this being another Pierzynski trade (where MN netted Bonser, Nathan, and Liriano).

My feelings... Lester/Hughes/Ellsbury + any assortment of prosects > what we got.

djtestudo · 01-30-2008, 07:16 AM

MLBTradeRumors.com is linking to a report that says the Yankees and Red Sox didn't even make final offers with guys like Ellsbury or Hughes involved.

At least I know the Yankees and Sox are stupid. Makes me feel better as an Orioles fan.

pan6467 · 01-30-2008, 09:40 AM

The Santana trade makes me happy, Minnesota won't be anything in the AL Central anymore. Chicago is a nowhere team with high paid has beens, KC is KC. Leaves just Detroit and Cleveland to do battle now. And while Detroit tries they just can't put it together.

Cleveland runs the AL Central for the next couple years. Biased prediction but, wow, the competition are hurting themselves.

Glory's Sun · 01-30-2008, 10:02 AM

Mark my words.. KC will be a good team in 3 years or less.

The Twins GM is an idiot. From what I heard, Ellsbury and Lester were still on the table from the Red Sox. The Yankees did pull Hughes from a deal but even without Hughes, it was a better deal than what they got from the Mets. To say that Boston doesn't need Santana is a bit of a stretch. You can never have too much great starting pitching, especially when Schill and Wakefield are big question marks in the upcoming year.

Now that the Santana trade is done, CC will be signed and the Bedard deal should move along in a week or less.

pan6467 · 01-30-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Mark my words.. KC will be a good team in 3 years or less.

The Twins GM is an idiot. From what I heard, Ellsbury and Lester were still on the table from the Red Sox. The Yankees did pull Hughes from a deal but even without Hughes, it was a better deal than what they got from the Mets. To say that Boston doesn't need Santana is a bit of a stretch. You can never have too much great starting pitching, especially when Schill and Wakefield are big question marks in the upcoming year.

Now that the Santana trade is done, CC will be signed and the Bedard deal should move along in a week or less.

KC has some on field talent, the question is do they have the talent in the management and ownership fields.

Yeah, I think maybe the Twins GM just wanted to get Santana gone because of the distraction and perhaps, he just wanted to make sure Santana was in the NL and not somewhere in the AL where he could comeback and haunt them. Also, I still also think that there maybe more to all this than we on the outside see and hear, Santana could be damaged goods.

I can see Bedard being dealt now that a price has been set. For CC I think it'll still be the Mets signing of Santana that will set his price in Cleveland.

Ilow · 01-30-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtestudo

MLBTradeRumors.com is linking to a report that says the Yankees and Red Sox didn't even make final offers with guys like Ellsbury or Hughes involved.

At least I know the Yankees and Sox are stupid. Makes me feel better as an Orioles fan.

au contrare, I think that the Sox and Yankees were pretty smart on this one. Certainly far from stupid. They avoided depleting themselves of young reasonably priced talent, and each have fairly good rotations anyway. This is one of the few times when the Yankees in particular have been smart and realized that even with a ridiculous payroll, $25mil a year x6 would be a big burden, especially when they were high on their own farm products. So far the Twins look the worst out of the deal.

loquitur · 01-31-2008, 12:14 AM

I have been a Mets fan my whole life. And if there is one thing I have learned about them, if there is a way to screw it up they will find it.

Poor Johann will spend much of the year on the DL, but only after the Mets give him a superrich contract. Remember, you read it here first.

QuasiMondo · 01-31-2008, 04:28 AM

Oh, ye of little faith! They won't screw it up until September. Just remember, the only sure things in life are death, taxes, and a late season Mets meltdown.

Glory's Sun · 01-31-2008, 08:15 AM

Looks like the O's want to keep Bedard now. They're looking to offer him a similar deal to that of Santana to keep in Bird Town.

djtestudo · 01-31-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Looks like the O's want to keep Bedard now. They're looking to offer him a similar deal to that of Santana to keep in Bird Town.

That's already been shot down. Bedard's agent denied it (quite vigorously too, interestingly enough

)

According to Ken Rosenthal, just on Outside the Lines, they are going to finally give physicals to everyone involved and the deal will be done.

I'm finished with holding my breath, though

Glory's Sun · 01-31-2008, 01:06 PM

Well damn. With Bedard in Seattle, they'll have a pretty good 1-2 punch. Too bad they won't have anything else.. wait.. that's a good thing.

djtestudo · 01-31-2008, 01:44 PM

I'm drooling over an outfield of Markakis, Adam Jones and (if the Roberts deal does follow, according to reports) Felix Pie.

(*Insert own Pie/dessert joke here*)

That will be the best outfield in the league in a couple years.

Now we just need a shortstop...

Glory's Sun · 01-31-2008, 02:13 PM

eh.. I'll keep Manny, Ellsbury, and Drew (if Drew does what he's supposed to do)

The_Jazz · 01-31-2008, 02:18 PM

[sigh] another year of going to Cubs games to see the drunken Trixies flash the crowd and make out with each other for the amusement of the fans. Because god knows what's going on on the field won't be amusing.

Personally I'm hoping for less than 100 basepath errors this year. That would be an improvement.

Glory's Sun · 01-31-2008, 02:20 PM

the cubbies won't be that bad..

I tried to keep a straight face..

The_Jazz · 01-31-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

the cubbies won't be that bad..

I tried to keep a straight face..

I hate you so very, very much. I hate you enough to make you buy the first round when you take me to a Sox game.

Glory's Sun · 01-31-2008, 02:28 PM

Only if you buy the subsequent rounds.

Or.. if you, you know, turn your back on the cubs and pledge your soul to Boston then I might just buy all the rounds...

djtestudo · 01-31-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

[sigh] another year of going to Cubs games to see the drunken Trixies flash the crowd and make out with each other for the amusement of the fans. Because god knows what's going on on the field won't be amusing.

Personally I'm hoping for less than 100 basepath errors this year. That would be an improvement.

You are going to LOVE Roberts. A leadoff guy who can actually get on base, plus he'll probably steal 70 or more bases in the NL under a guy like Pinella. And, he plays good D.

I'm disappointed that Bedard is going to be traded, but I'm actually sad to see Roberts go (assuming he does) because I love watching him play.

(Anyone else find it interesting that he would be at least the third 2B the Orioles have traded to the Cubs in three years?)

pan6467 · 01-31-2008, 11:36 PM

Don't get too carried away DJ.... :

Quote:

Angels, Indians now interested in Baltimore's Bedard?

Wednesday, Jan 30, 2008 6:39 am EST

The Seattle Times reported there was new word Tuesday that the Seattle Mariners might not be the only team in the hunt for Baltimore Orioles ace left-handed Erik Bedard.

"We continue to talk [with Seattle]," Andy MacPhail, the Orioles' president of baseball operations, told the Baltimore Sun. "We've had some other clubs chime in as well."

The New York Mets, once believed to have interest in Bedard, are no longer a factor, provided they consummate their Johan Santana trade. And the Cincinnati Reds were involved in Bedard talks but have been unwilling to include prized outfield prospect Jay Bruce, a likely deal-breaker. The Angels and Cleveland Indians are teams that could possibly get involved.

Source: Seattle Times

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/t...ndians/mlb.t.5

I truly think when all is said and done, the REDS will pull the trigger. They know they have the offense stacked.... they are pitching desperate. I also think they waited to see what the Santana deal would be.

Bedard is good for this coming season and the next, so unlike Santana or possibly CC he isn't just a rent a player.

The Indians maybe looking at Bedard to replace CC. I think they are going to give CC their pitch and it'll be a take it or trade type exchange. There is no way they can afford to just let him walk at the end of the season for a draft pick, they are too close to winning and bringing fans into the seats. They can't afford to let him walk and start a "rebuild" it would destroy their credibility with the fans.

So if you are Cleveland, you pitch the offer, he says yes, cool. He says no, you go after someone like Bedard, trade CC and try to extend Bedard.

Personally, I am not a Bedard fan but in the long run he may end up the better pitcher.

Glory's Sun · 02-01-2008, 07:21 AM

I don't think the Indians really have the fire power to get Bedard. Sure they could get rid of CC, but it wouldn't be very smart to get rid of a CY winner when (I'm assuming) he's adored by the fans at this point. The only reason he shouldn't be in a Cleveland uni is because he just wanted the money. There's no way Cleveland can afford a Santana type deal. C.C. will have to compromise to stay there. 4 years at most is my thinking. If they can't afford C.C. -- then they can't afford Bedard.

Bedard will end up in Seattle. Seattle just signed Wilkerson which would replace Jones in the outfield. I just don't see Bedard going anywhere else at this point.

12-20-2007, 04:41 PM	#121 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	As long as they don't want to have a chance at winning anything, that's fine for them. He's got a 4.31 ERA career, 1.4 career WHIP. And he's making $12 million per now. THAT'S why teams will go for Bedard: he's a legitimate ace that will be cheap at least two more years. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

01-14-2008, 01:22 PM	#122 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	The Yankees have pulled out of the Johan Santana sweepstakes by pulling Phillip Hughes off the table. This just leaves the Mets and Red Sox as the only two serious contenders for him. Personally, I think the Twins are asking too much for him, last report I got is that they wanted Minaya to give up seven minor league prospects for him. Way too much to give up, especially for a guy that's entering the final year of his contract. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

01-14-2008, 02:02 PM	#124 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	It is a lot of bullshit, and the Twins don't want to face up to the fact that they're not going to get what they're asking for him. They're better off letting him run his final year out and trying to make a run for the playoffs with him. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

01-28-2008, 02:48 PM	#129 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	A MN source says Santana deal will be done within 10 days. Don't know what is different now than two months ago? __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

01-28-2008, 04:09 PM	#130 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	What's different is that Minnesota has overplayed their hand, leaving the Mets as the only team willing to deal with them anymore, and that's because they really need an ace in their rotation. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

01-14-2008, 01:31 PM	#123 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Santana will still be in a Twins uni come opening day. He won't move until trade deadline. The price will drop a bit then because he'll be practically demanding a trade, and the Twins GM will realize that he's asking way too much. Well.. that's the way I think it will go. I just don't see the blockbuster mega deal happening anymore. I think teams are just tired of the bullshit.

01-15-2008, 01:16 PM	#125 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	The whole thing is foolish on the Twins' part. If he walks they get a first round pick and a sandwich pick. The offers they are getting a much better than that.

01-15-2008, 03:50 PM	#126 (permalink)
Cross-Over Psycho	I think the Twins truly believe they can contend for the playoffs, as they have many other years despite outside doubt. There is a revenue factor to consider as well, and if they trade away Santana for what they and their fans consider below market value, that doesn't bode well for attendance. Ideally, I agree they should trade Santana, but I would think they are considering the present and day-to-day operations as well.

01-23-2008, 09:28 AM	#127 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Tulu gets 6 years 30 million. Pretty hefty contract for an unproven player. Santana still not moved.. everybody still thinks the yanks will end up with him. Looks like Bedard may end up in Seattle.. which would be a decent fit.

01-28-2008, 12:42 PM	#128 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Bedard to Seattle is pretty much a done deal. I like anything that keeps him in the AL. Now if only we can make sure that Santana stays in the AL as well.... That is a lot of cash for Tulo, he has just over one full year of service time. At least they bought out his first year of free agency.

01-29-2008, 08:11 AM	#131 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	The more CC says, it isn't about the money the more I believe it is. Thome and Manny both said it wasn't about the money and both went for relatively the same money elsewhere. For Thome it was an extra year, for Manny the way the money was paid out. On the other hand, if you can't sign him now and you honestly gave your best offer trade his ass out of here and get someone who wants to be here... well that maybe more difficult, trying to find someone who wants to play in Cleveland.... ok so keep CC one more year if he doesn't sign and with the money saved get a big bat and go full bore to winning it all this year. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

01-29-2008, 09:16 AM	#132 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Well with Manny, you can't really blame him for leaving when Boston throws $20 million in his face. As far as the Mets still being the only team in the running for Santana.. don't kid yourself. The skanks and Bo'Sox are still very much in the running. It's really just down to who will give up something first. I have a feeling he'll end up in pinstripes. It would be a bad bad move for Steinbrenner Jr to lose a deal right off the bat to Boston.

01-29-2008, 04:56 PM	#137 (permalink)
Ilow Junkie Location: Pats country	Yeah, just saw this. I know that every team's fans tend to overvalue their own talent, but although all of these Mets prospects are rated as top 10, but it really seems like the Red Sox and Yankee offers were far better, particularly considering the lack of major league experience of the Mets prospects. As a Sox fan, I'm glad he didn't go to another AL team (read: Yankees), but in the wussy NL, he could be the first pitcher to have an ERA of 0.00 for an entire season. Humber, a 25-year-old right-hander, has made one start and four relief appearances for the Mets during the past two years, and went 11-9 with a 4.27 ERA last season for Triple-A New Orleans. The 22-year-old Gomez batted .232 in 125 at-bats with New York last year and .275 with 19 steals in the minors. Guerra, who turns 19 in April, was 2-6 with a 4.01 ERA at Class A St. Lucie, and Mulvey, who will be 23 in May, was 12-10 with a 3.20 ERA in 26 starts at Double-A Binghamton and one at New Orleans. __________________ "Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about" --Sam Harris

01-29-2008, 05:15 PM	#138 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	Word has it that Omar Minaya threw in the Brooklyn Bridge just to sweeten the deal. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

01-29-2008, 06:56 PM	#139 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I hear that these guys are after Minaya for what he did to Bill Smith. And supposedly they turned down better offers from the Yankees and Red Sox. Just hope Bedard gets done soon. Roberts to the Cubs should follow soon after. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

01-29-2008, 08:58 PM	#140 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Man I don't know what the hell the Twins were thinking. They don't get the top two prospects the Mets have, don't get any of the things they really need (CF who can step in right now and play good D, shortstop, second baseman) and they had way better offers from both NY and BOS. Not to mention that they could have waited until they got exactly what they needed to make a trade. Frankly, they shoulda gone with Seattle's Bedard offer (Adam Jones, ready to play CF, Truinifel, future SS, plus some top pitching prospects). They got robbed - I just can't believe how wrong they got this trade. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

01-29-2008, 09:44 PM	#141 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Talking to a disgruntled Minnesota fan, most twinks fans are idiots... somehow they ignore the fact that, as noted these weren't even the top prospects from the Mets whether pitching or position; one of the guys is coming off of Tommy Johns; going off of memory one of the pitchers record is something like 14-16 with a 4.40+ era after 3 seasons of the minors. So looking at the situation... we let go argubly the best pitcher in the entire MLB for, using ESPN's Buster Olny's words, what was probably our 4th best offer. This doesn't note the fact that we gave away Garza, who was supposed to be our top pitching prospect, if Boof Bonser is the next Radke, we were expecting some fire from Garza. We lost Silva, which as a Twins fan I don't mind, too many years of a deep ball liability... all the same our line up is shored up by Liriano, a phenom in his own right, but we have no way of gauging how he'll be, he hasn't thrown in 1.5 years. The ALCS is far too stacked, this trade obviously kills us from contention for at least 2-3 seasons, and that is probably optimistic. Yeah it was great we signed Morneau for something like 5-6, but what the fuck does it matter, we just lost Torii, and we still have are lacking a legitimate power hitter that can shore up the line up: Cuddyer is not an answer. Far too many people up here are banking on this being another Pierzynski trade (where MN netted Bonser, Nathan, and Liriano). My feelings... Lester/Hughes/Ellsbury + any assortment of prosects > what we got. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition. Last edited by Mojo_PeiPei; 01-29-2008 at 09:46 PM..

01-30-2008, 07:16 AM	#142 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	MLBTradeRumors.com is linking to a report that says the Yankees and Red Sox didn't even make final offers with guys like Ellsbury or Hughes involved. At least I know the Yankees and Sox are stupid. Makes me feel better as an Orioles fan. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

01-30-2008, 09:40 AM	#143 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	The Santana trade makes me happy, Minnesota won't be anything in the AL Central anymore. Chicago is a nowhere team with high paid has beens, KC is KC. Leaves just Detroit and Cleveland to do battle now. And while Detroit tries they just can't put it together. Cleveland runs the AL Central for the next couple years. Biased prediction but, wow, the competition are hurting themselves. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

01-30-2008, 10:02 AM	#144 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Mark my words.. KC will be a good team in 3 years or less. The Twins GM is an idiot. From what I heard, Ellsbury and Lester were still on the table from the Red Sox. The Yankees did pull Hughes from a deal but even without Hughes, it was a better deal than what they got from the Mets. To say that Boston doesn't need Santana is a bit of a stretch. You can never have too much great starting pitching, especially when Schill and Wakefield are big question marks in the upcoming year. Now that the Santana trade is done, CC will be signed and the Bedard deal should move along in a week or less.

01-31-2008, 12:14 AM	#147 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Location: NYC	I have been a Mets fan my whole life. And if there is one thing I have learned about them, if there is a way to screw it up they will find it. Poor Johann will spend much of the year on the DL, but only after the Mets give him a superrich contract. Remember, you read it here first.

01-31-2008, 04:28 AM	#148 (permalink)
QuasiMondo Wise-ass Latino Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA	Oh, ye of little faith! They won't screw it up until September. Just remember, the only sure things in life are death, taxes, and a late season Mets meltdown. __________________ Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

01-31-2008, 08:15 AM	#149 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Looks like the O's want to keep Bedard now. They're looking to offer him a similar deal to that of Santana to keep in Bird Town.

01-31-2008, 01:06 PM	#151 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Well damn. With Bedard in Seattle, they'll have a pretty good 1-2 punch. Too bad they won't have anything else.. wait.. that's a good thing.

01-31-2008, 01:44 PM	#152 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I'm drooling over an outfield of Markakis, Adam Jones and (if the Roberts deal does follow, according to reports) Felix Pie. (Insert own Pie/dessert joke here) That will be the best outfield in the league in a couple years. Now we just need a shortstop... __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

01-31-2008, 02:13 PM	#153 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	eh.. I'll keep Manny, Ellsbury, and Drew (if Drew does what he's supposed to do)

01-31-2008, 02:18 PM	#154 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	[sigh] another year of going to Cubs games to see the drunken Trixies flash the crowd and make out with each other for the amusement of the fans. Because god knows what's going on on the field won't be amusing. Personally I'm hoping for less than 100 basepath errors this year. That would be an improvement. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

01-31-2008, 02:20 PM	#155 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	the cubbies won't be that bad.. I tried to keep a straight face..

01-31-2008, 02:28 PM	#157 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Only if you buy the subsequent rounds. Or.. if you, you know, turn your back on the cubs and pledge your soul to Boston then I might just buy all the rounds...

02-01-2008, 07:21 AM	#160 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I don't think the Indians really have the fire power to get Bedard. Sure they could get rid of CC, but it wouldn't be very smart to get rid of a CY winner when (I'm assuming) he's adored by the fans at this point. The only reason he shouldn't be in a Cleveland uni is because he just wanted the money. There's no way Cleveland can afford a Santana type deal. C.C. will have to compromise to stay there. 4 years at most is my thinking. If they can't afford C.C. -- then they can't afford Bedard. Bedard will end up in Seattle. Seattle just signed Wilkerson which would replace Jones in the outfield. I just don't see Bedard going anywhere else at this point.