djtestudo

Well, they have a first baseman, third baseman, and left fielder.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Told you that Cabrera would end up in Detroit

Detroit now has an insane lineup. In fact, it's probably better than the yankees lineups of the past. The key of course is their pitchers staying healthy.

The Marlin's got some good players out of the deal..but I'm not sure I would have let both Willis and Cabrera go together.

Look for the Red Sox to agree with a trade and go to Bud for the 72 hour window to negotiate with Santana soon. Looks like we may be seeing a Detroit vs Boston matchup in the AL next year.

The Dodgers are still after Andruw Jones.. who wants wayyyyyy too much money IMO. He's really not that great of an offensive player and he wants a deal similar to Torri Hunter's. The Dodgers are saying they'll only go for a 2 year deal with some incentives for extensions. He wants a 5 year deal.

Edit: I meant to touch on the Gagne stuff earlier. It's true that Gagne could perhaps be a decent pitcher again. However, it would have to be in a smaller market and he'd have to get his head straight. He's as bad mentally as he ever was physically. Boston offered him arbitration, only because he's a type A free agent which gives them a draft pick.

pan6467

With everyone pulling out of the Santana talks, does the Min. GM not realize he is asking wayyyyyy too much or is Santana damaged goods?

From everything I'm reading either way the Min. GM sounds like he is trying to go for every little possible thing and teams realize it is just too much.

In the end the Bosox may get Santana dirt cheap because the Twins asked for too much and made Boston the only bidder.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Glory's Sun

Don't be fooled. Everyone isn't out of the Santana talks. Rumors are still there that the Angels want him. They just lost out on Cabrera.. so Santana would be a nice consolation prize. Also, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Yankees contact the Twins one last time. Since when does the Steinbrenner family bow down to the Red Sox? Supposedly the Yanks are also interested in Dan Heron.. but so is Arizona.

I don't think it's the fact that the Minnesota GM asked for too much.. I think it's just that the Yankees tried to flex their muscles thinking they had the best package and it just wasn't there. The only team that could match the Red Sox offers in the AL would be.. the Angels. As of right now it looks like the Twins are interested in package A from Boston which is the Lester, CoCo deal. Basically, it all comes down to what the Boston brass shows up with today (there's a rumor that Minnesota said to get it done today) and what counter offer if any the Angels can come up with.

djtestudo

I still think the Twins will end up with a Lester-Ellsbury deal.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

kutulu

From what I've heard, the DBacks have a really good shot of landing Haren but the A's want to wait till Santana is dealt.

Glory's Sun

Let's both hope that Haren goes to Arizona and not the skanks. Of course Bedard is still on the table, but the Oreo's seem to think they can get a Santana type deal out of him.

Most teams are waiting for the Santana deal to go through so they can see what the price is. They figure if Santana gets dealt to Boston and gets and extension right away at his asking price, then, with the #1 gone, they can up their prices. It's all a bit silly but I guess that's how the big machine rolls.


As far as ending up with a Lester, Ellsbury deal.. I just don't see it happening. The Twins aren't demanding both. They know that they can use CoCo or Ellsbury. They are more interested in what pitchers they get at this point. Even if a Lester, Ellsbury trade is made, then Theo can still shop CoCo around, because he would have to pull some of the prospects from the Twins deal. The two prospects that are in the Lester deal are monster prospects (much like the Marlins got yesterday) so it's really not a bad move at all for Minnesota to go with Lester, CoCo.

Theo is also shopping around for bullpen help. That's what I'm really interested in seeing..

QuasiMondo

Cabrerra's not Crooked Hat, Dontrelle is (or at least I see him that way). And they still need a #1 pitcher.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

djtestudo

You know, you're right. I don't know how I screwed that up

Really.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Jadey

That was a lame attempt at humor. Sorry.

But back to reality. One thing I have found rather interesting is that a couple of different guys (Jayson Stark and Ken Rosenthal) have reported that one sticking point with the Santana to Boston deal has been the Bosox reluctance to include Ellsbury in a deal. But I don't see why. Ellsbury is a guy who has shown ok speed and weak to moderate power through the minors and doesn't project to be much more than a average/slightly better than average CF. I understand he would be a capable starter not eligible for arbitration for a few years, but is Boston holding on to him because he had a good couple of months? It seems to me that now would be the time to deal him, while his value is high compared to his minor league production.

djtestudo

S'okay. There's just a lot of people who would have been completely serious saying something like that

He gets on-base a lot (.390 OBP in the minors) and steals bases both often and well. He walks as much as he strikes out. Plus, I haven't heard anything bad about his defense.

He'd be a good guy to lead-off and have in center field for a decade-plus, even if he doesn't have a lot of power. He's not going to be a star, though.

I think Boston is being blinded a little, but he was their top prospect according to Baseball America last year, so someone must think he's pretty good

He should be in the deal; I would much rather have him then Cereal Boy (which is Boston's opinion as well).

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Ilow

Well, some people argue that the people who would really like Ellsbury to stay in Boston are reacting to emotion rather than logic, but part of the draw for this kid is that ability to create that emotion. You are flat out underselling him by calling him a guy with "ok speed" and "average/slightly better than average CF." First, the kid can flat out fly. He's been clocked faster to 1st than Ichiro, and last season scored from second on a passed ball (or WP, can't remember). He has game changing speed, and already has great instincts as evidenced by his almost perfect steal percentage. If he's on first with less than 2 out in the 9th, you had better believe the closer has a full diaper and is not wholly focused on the hitter. He is also a very good fielder, not coco crisp, torii hunter good, but very competent. His arm is pretty average, but lately it seems like almost everyone has an average outfield arm except a few guys, and he's certainly stronger than Johnny Damon. Oh and he didn't puddle himself when he got called up to the big show in a huge market in the middle of a penant race, in fact he did better than most of the regulars, I forget his exact stats, but I think it was something like .340 while taking some walks. Will he still have some slumps? sure, will he struggle some when teams devote time to learn how to pitch him? probably some. But I for one will be a little disappointed if his plays great in a Twins uniform.

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

djtestudo

Andruw Jones to Dodgers: two years, $36 million reportedly.

Source forthcoming.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Did I seriously just read that Ellsbury has "ok speed" .. ok.. I must be high.. I couldn't have seriously read that.

Dude is super fast, and has the potential to be a great lead-off hitter. Certainly better than Damon and CoCo. While he may not be as great in the field as CoCo right now, he can improve that aspect of his game.

I don't think anything that Theo is doing is a reluctance to get rid of a certain player.. I think it's just that he's sticking with the philosophy that has won him two World Series. That philosophy is to get equal value and not blow apart the farm system.

Jadey

Okay, sorry. What I meant was that I've seen that he's an "OK" baserunner. I've read that his footspeed won't result in the number of stolen bases you would like to see.

Basically, I'm asking if he is as good as he showed towards the end of last season or not. I know a large number of guys make a big splash when they make it to the show, but once there is a book on them and the league adjusts they come back to earth, so to speak. I know he's been touted as a future major league starter, but that could mean alot of things.




But to change subjects, is the Andrew Jones deal really necessary for LA? If they were going to make a big splash this offseason I would've thought they would have focused on a larger need, which is 3rd Base. It's obvious they are not going to give LaRoche a shot (even though I think has shown he deserves it), but with Pierre, Kemp, Ethier, Delwyn Young, and they still have Gonzo on the roster. I'm assuming Kemp/Ethier/Young will be involved in a deal for a 3rd bagger now. But if you are gonna spend that kind of dough why Jones. His D isn't what it was, even though he is still young (seems like he should be about 40 by now), and he has become 1 dimensional as a hitter and doesn't steal bases anymore.

The sad thing is that Jones' signing is really overshadowing the big deal the Dodgers made by announcing the signing of Chan Ho Park's minor league deal that was agreed two awhile ago.

kutulu

Well there is a big difference between a fast baserunner and a good basestealer.

Ilow

he was like 9 for 9 in SB attempts, in just 33 games, what's that 50 sb a year with few CS, I'd say he is a good baserunner with exceptional speed.

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

kutulu

Let me correct myself. I wasn't commenting on his ability, I've only seen him play in a couple of playoff games. I was just saying in general.

Baserunning is an art. You don't need to be fast to be a good runner. What you need is to know your limitations. With stealing, it is about getting jumps. Being fast can make up for it but only so much.

I'm really hoping Justin Upton shows good ability to read pitchers and get good jumps. He has blazing speed. It really shows in the outfield.

Glory's Sun

From what I've seen of Jacoby, he's a good baserunner. The kid is still cutting his teeth. Let's not forget that. He's a baby. The potential is there for him to be a leadoff guy who can be a threat on the bases. At this point, I think the Red Sox would rather have his potential than bank on a CoCo who has been nothing but disappointing since he arrived in Boston. The fact that Jacoby didn't piss himself in the big games shows that he can do it.. it just remains to be seen if he can do it for a full season.

The Santana sweeps are still hot. The skanks are still interested and now that the Dodgers have disposable depth in the outfield they are also interested. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they dangled Jones in front of the Minnesota GM now. Of course, nothing really surprises me anymore. The Gm wants to move Santana by spring training, and he'll probably achieve that goal, the question is just who is going to give up the most for him. The Angels are also still in the running. The Mets say they think they have enough pieces to land him, but when I saw what they were considering, well, I just don't think they do. Then again, I'm not real up to date on the NL side of things.

I'm also starting to wonder just how long other teams are going to wait to start moving their guys. Is Oakland and Baltimore going to wait for Santana? I don't think so anymore. They aren't going to just jump on an offer for Bedard or Haren, but I think we'll see them move before Santana is moved. There's also an new conversation between the Yanks and Giants about Matsui. That kind of hit me in the face, but I can see why the Yanks would move him; the only question is how much of the salary remaining can they pick up and he has a full no trade clause. The Indians are looking at Carroll from Colorado.. but I'm not really sure why. He's owed too much money and had a terrible season last year. Watch for Iguchi to sign with the Rox in the next day or two.

ok.. I sound like a fucking reporter.. sorry.

QuasiMondo

I was listening to Michael Kay on the radio and he gave a pretty good explanation why the Yankees won't trade Matsui (even though they should). For one thing, he has a no-trade clause (already stated). For another, the Yankees pull in a lot of money from Japan. The YES network broadcasts all regular-season games to Japan, where Matsui still has a huge following. If they lose Godzilla, that's potentially a lot of lost revenue for them.

If the Twins turned were turning down the offers that the Yankees and Red Sox were offering, then there's no way in hell the Mets can land Santana....not without giving up Reyes, which would be very counterproductive for them. I think they're better off going after Dontrelle Willis. Word is that the Tigers might have a hard time signing both him and Miguel Cabrerra.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Glory's Sun

Good point on the YES network. I didn't even think about that aspect of the Matsui trade.

Milton Bradley is going to Texas. I'm really surprised the Padres couldn't keep him. I was watching an interview with the SD GM and he was certain that Bradley would be back. Guess not eh?

Looks like Gagne will be signing with the Brewers. Good riddance you washed up piece of shit.

LaTroy Hawkins to sign with the Skanks pending phsyical.. big fucking deal.

Best news of the weekend.. Beckett was named '07 pitcher of the year Big surprise there eh?

QuasiMondo

Didn't Bradley tear up his knee at the end of the season? I hope the Rangers didn't pay top dollar for damaged goods.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

Glory's Sun

1 year, $5million plus incentives. May not even be ready on Opening Day. Padres were only going with 1 year $4 million.

Yes he tore up his knee pretty bad.. so.. it could be a bomb or it could turn out to be ok for Texas. It's not like Texas is actually going to compete or anything

kutulu

You hear some stuff about how the Twins might try to hold onto Santana. It makes no sense to me. They aren't in a position to take the AL Central and the compensatory picks they will get if they keep him are nothing compared to what they can get back in a trade.

It was looking like Oak and Bal would wait until Santana was traded but I also am wondering if they don't act sooner. AZ keeps getting brought up with Haren. It could be that Beane actually likes AZ's package or that he's using them to get what he really wants. Anyways, some of the the players for Haren and Bedard are also players for Kudora (Az is a possible match). Once Kudora signs, he loses a potential trade partner.

I'm surprised the Brewers are going to pay Gagne so much ($10M?). BAD MOVE on their part.

I think $5M for Bradley is a great deal, even if he misses some time. He should rake in Texas.

djtestudo

Rumors are flying around here that the Orioles are deciding between deals and Bedard will be gone this week (with others to follow).

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

I was reading an article today saying that it's less than a 50% chance that the Red Sox get Santana. I think the GM for Minnesota is just not ballsy enough to part ways with him yet. He acts like if he loses Santana, then the franchise will just melt away and they won't compete. Umm, have you looked at your current roster there bub?? hello..

I wouldn't be surprised if you see Haren jump on board with Arizona in a couple weeks. Oakland has no real reason to try and play hardball with anyone. They need to make some offensive moves.. and do it now, not later.

As far as Bedard, I haven't heard much on that front. I do know there were something like 11 teams in talks but that's obviously changed now. What kind of money and players are you hearing dj? I know that the Orioles were thinking he could bring a Santana like payoff.

Oh.. just saw that LoDuca is now a National. One year deal..

djtestudo

Latest rumor (not that it means much, the way things change) is Bedard, possibly along with Tejada, to the Dodgers for a deal centered around Matt Kemp, or Bedard to Seattle for Adam Jones-plus several or Cincinnati for Homer Bailey-plus several.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Jadey

I'm wondering if Milwaukee panicked a bit with the Gagne signing. I realize they probably do not want to have to go into the season with Turnbow closing, but there is still some time left in the offseason to make some sort of deal. It appears they overpaid for Gagne mainly to limit the length of his contract. If they would have been willing to go atleast 3 years they could have probably gotten him for a little over $20 million, but the fact they only when 1 year at that dollar amount shows me they really wanted someone else to close. But Gagne? You would've thought they could have done better someway.

djtestudo

Why?

He blew in Boston, but in twice the innings in Texas he had a 2.16 ERA.

He goes to Milwaukee where no one will ever see him and has a great year. He comes back on the market next year, people go, "Damn! Nice year!" and he gets a huge contract.

Milwaukee gets him for a playoff push next year, and he gets to rebuild his reputation. Win-win.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

kutulu

Tejada is going to the Astros. Pretty nice deal for the O's.

Supposedly the Dodgers got Kudora so they will drop out of the Beadard race. The O's are going to be loaded with prospects.

djtestudo

Yeah boy!

And if the Dodgers think signing a Japanese guy who was worse over THERE then Kei Igawa (reportedly, but still not a good comparison) will help their staff more then Bedard, they are crazy. That's like the Yankees saying, "Why should we trade for Ryan Howard? We can sign Hee Sop Choi!"

What I think will be interesting is whether Luke Scott is flipped with Bedard to get more from LA, Seattle or Cincinnati, or with Roberts to get more from the Cubs, or if he is kept as the everyday left fielder. He's 29, but will put up an .850s OPS with good defense, and because of how he developed will still be under Orioles control for four more years.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

pan6467

Rumor in Cleveland is they are very CLOSE to a trade with the A's for Haren it appears to be Adam Miller, Ryan Garko and another player probably Franklin Gutierrez or Jeremy Sowers.

Can you imagine a rotation of CC, Haren, Fausto, Westbrook, Lee/Byrd?

I would take that staff over any other in MLB.

I'd hate to lose Garko, Miller has talent beyond talent he just can't stay healthy, a change in scenery may do wonders for him.

But Hell, trade for Haren use the guys you kept for Bay...... and we have a devastating team.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

djtestudo

Mitchell report comes out in a couple hours? Any predictions for shocking revelations?

I'm predicting Derek Jeter on the list of names. Anyone else?

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

I'll be surprised if Haren ends up in Cleveland. I just think he'll end up on a west coast NL team for some reason. However, if Cleveland does land him, that will be one hell of a lineup.. but .. let's just wait and see what happens in Boston shall we? I'll take Beckett, Santana and Dice-K over CC, Haren and Fausto anyday.. of course I'm counting chickens before they're hatched.. but it's nice to dream.

The O's are finally doing what they've been talking about for how many years now?? They are actually starting to rebuild. Tejada is a huge question mark and has been for years. The O's definately got the better end of this trade.

Rowand in San Fran? I dunno that just seems odd to me.

Mitchell report.. I'm not really going to pay much attention to it, because even when the names come out, it doesn't necessarily mean they used the stuff.

Average_Joe

Still, for the guys that are still playing and are named, their legacies will forever be tarnished.

I wonder if they will serve some suspensions at the begining of the season. Some teams may have some thin lineups to start the season.

__________________
I think I'll procrastinate......in a little while.

kutulu

According to many accounts Clemens and Pettite are in the report.

djtestudo

This is the list going around right now, unconfirmed:

"Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood"

Now, I doubt this list is accurate enough to draw any conclusions, especially with the misspellings and double-names. If true, however, that's some big names that are at least somewhat surprising. Pujols, Prior, Dykstra, Kile.

We'll know for sure in an hour or so.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Glory's Sun

Alot of those names don't surprise me at all.. Garciaparra surprised me and to a small extent Varitek. That is of course if this list is accurate.

pan6467

A few of those names surprise me, the biggest surprise for me is Wally Joyner.

I'm more surprised by the names not listed.... A Rod, Jim Thome, Bartolo Colon, the Giles brothers, Tom Browning, to name a few.

I'm very happy to see JR, Manny, Randy Johnson and David Justice not on the list.

I thought when they did Kile's autopsy, they didn't find any drugs.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Ustwo

Prior was called out by Black Jack McDowel years ago on the air after he got one of his weird injuries, this also explains by the Cubs didn't even offer him a low ball contract and let him walk.

Roger Clemens - hahahahaha, how shocking.

Pudge doesn't surprise me what does surprise me is that Magglio Ordonez isn't on the list (note no names checked for spelling).

Of course we need to remember these are guys they caught, not all of them.

Edit:Some are saying the early list wasn't correct, though a lot of the more obscure ones are on there and the real list.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.