Kobe scores 81 points tonight - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dtheriault · 01-22-2006, 10:57 PM

Against the Raptors. Lamar said Kobe got mad, then real quiet. Lamar said Kobe is really scary when he's silent mad. The Lakers should punch Kobe in the face every night and tell him he sucks and will never be half as good as Jordan.

81 points. I get tired just counting to 81. I'm not even a huge Kobe fan, but you have to admit that guy has absolutely no quit in him.

strange · 01-23-2006, 01:00 AM

Freakin awesome. Even if you hate Kobe, that was something to behold.

Ace_O_Spades · 01-23-2006, 02:03 AM

Against the Raptors? Let's put a * next to those 81 points... Like playing against a guy with one leg.

highthief · 01-23-2006, 04:31 AM

That is mind-boggling! It's at least equal to Chamberlain's 100 point mark, IMO - because Chamberlain was a superfreak in a time of ordinary mortals.

dylanmarsh · 01-23-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

That is mind-boggling! It's at least equal to Chamberlain's 100 point mark, IMO - because Chamberlain was a superfreak in a time of ordinary mortals.

Let's not reward bad behavior (i.e. being a ball hog and a chuck). Kobe can score 80, 90, 100 points everynight and it still won't change the fact that the Lakers suck and won't make the playoffs. Look at the boxscore last night: Kobe had a only 2 assists with the next highest scorer on the Lakers being Smush Parker with 13 points.

I also agree with Ace -- it was against the Raptors! I'm pretty sure Sheryl Swoopes could score at least 50 if Morris Peterson was guarding her. If Kobe could do this against the Spurs or Pistons, then we have something to be excited about. Right now, I could care less.

Toaster126 · 01-23-2006, 06:50 AM

Yeah, no mere mortal should ever be compared to The Wilt, hallowed be His name. He was a monster. And, from what I hear, he would like TFP too.

highthief · 01-23-2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylanmarsh

Let's not reward bad behavior (i.e. being a ball hog and a chuck). Kobe can score 80, 90, 100 points everynight and it still won't change the fact that the Lakers suck and won't make the playoffs. Look at the boxscore last night: Kobe had a only 2 assists with the next highest scorer on the Lakers being Smush Parker with 13 points.

I also agree with Ace -- it was against the Raptors! I'm pretty sure Sheryl Swoopes could score at least 50 if Morris Peterson was guarding her. If Kobe could do this against the Spurs or Pistons, then we have something to be excited about. Right now, I could care less.

The Raps had a horrible start to the season but are 500 or better since then. They aren't such a bad squad.

You think Chamberlain gave up the ball a lot when he scored a hun?

Kurant · 01-23-2006, 08:51 AM

Too bad we aren't talking about Wilt here.

In 1962 when Wilt scored 100, his team didn't make the NBA finals. Ironically, Kobe will suffer the same fate. He wasen't even MVP. A guy by the name of Bill Russel was. (I think, I'll check history here in a minute.)

81 is a huge number no matter who it is. It's not like the Raptors are some high school squad. They are an NBA team. No player in the NBA sucks. As good as others? Perhaps not, but none of them, and mean none of them suck.

I dont buy into any Kobe hype. He's shown us he can win championships swinging in Shaq's nuts, but he's yet to prove to anyone he's a winner.

Borla · 01-23-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

The Raps had a horrible start to the season but are 500 or better since then. They aren't such a bad squad.

You think Chamberlain gave up the ball a lot when he scored a hun?

Kobe's has only had two seasons of more than 400 assists, his career high being 481.
Chamberlain led the league in assists one year, and had twice as many seasone of over 400 assists as Kobe has, from the center position. His career high in assists was 702!!!

If you take each of their best three years of assists, Wilt leads 1744 to 1317, and Kobe plays guard.

Kobe's scoring 81 is truly an amazing feat. He is a phenomenal talent. But he doesn't make those around him better. His teammates have already made comments in the press about being there to "watch Kobe play".

BigBen · 01-23-2006, 08:57 AM

What is that?

39 baskets and a 3 pointer? How many minutes did he play?

At what point (as the Raptors coach) do you have to call your players in and say
"uh, who is guarding Kobe?"
*guy raises his hand*
"You might want to try a little harder there, sport."

Borla · 01-23-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen

What is that?

39 baskets and a 3 pointer? How many minutes did he play?

At what point (as the Raptors coach) do you have to call your players in and say
"uh, who is guarding Kobe?"
*guy raises his hand*
"You might want to try a little harder there, sport."

He was 28-46 in field goals and 18-20 from the FT line.

goddfather40 · 01-23-2006, 09:18 AM

Seriously, guys. What the fuck does Kobe have to do to please you? I am not trying to compare Kobe to Wilt or anything, just comparing the hallowed hundred point game to Kobe's 81 point game. Don't give me the lame it was against the Raptors bullshit, or that he only had 2 assists (Wilt was the greatest passing center ever and that ballhog only had 2 assists in his 100 game). Kobe had EIGHTY-ONE fucking points. He shot 60% from the field, Wilt only shot 53% in his 100 point game. He brought his team back from an 18 point early 3rd quarter deficit by scoring 51 points after that. Nobody was making any shots, I think Lamar was like 1 for 7 at that point, so Kobe did what he had to do.

You can attack the fact he hasn't won a ring without Shaq card, and that is a perfectly valid point. But nobody, even Michael could take this Laker team deep into the playoffs. The Lakers are setting everything up for a championship run by 2008, when all the pieces should be in place.

highthief · 01-23-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddfather40

Seriously, guys. What the fuck does Kobe have to do to please you? I am not trying to compare Kobe to Wilt or anything, just comparing the hallowed hundred point game to Kobe's 81 point game. Don't give me the lame it was against the Raptors bullshit, or that he only had 2 assists (Wilt was the greatest passing center ever and that ballhog only had 2 assists in his 100 game). Kobe had EIGHTY-ONE fucking points. He shot 60% from the field, Wilt only shot 53% in his 100 point game. He brought his team back from an 18 point early 3rd quarter deficit by scoring 51 points after that. Nobody was making any shots, I think Lamar was like 1 for 7 at that point, so Kobe did what he had to do.

You can attack the fact he hasn't won a ring without Shaq card, and that is a perfectly valid point. But nobody, even Michael could take this Laker team deep into the playoffs. The Lakers are setting everything up for a championship run by 2008, when all the pieces should be in place.

Agreed. And the people who are saying "its only the Raptors" have no concept here. Just what do you think the Knicks record was in 1962? IIRC, it was 29-51. Ergo, when Wilt scored a hundred "it was only the Knicks!".

Chamberlain changed the game. He was a beast well ahead of his time. His feats are amazing. But 81 points in the modern era compares very favourably with 100 points 25 years ago, no matter how you slice it.

Mojo_PeiPei · 01-23-2006, 09:57 AM

I agree with goddfather 100%, you really have no concept of what happened here if you are dogging Kobe.

Quote:

Kobe Bryant scored 81 points on Sunday – enough to rank second all time to Wilt Chamberlain's immortal 100-point game in 1962 and knock the NFL off the front burner of sports conversations – and yet people still will criticize him.

Count on it. They'll say he should have passed more (he had just two assists). They'll say he just did it for the spotlight. They'll point to his 18 misses, not his 28 makes.

They'll go on and on. Only in basketball could a guy score 81 points, make history, send every ticket holder home with a story of a lifetime, cause cell phones across America to ring with "Are you watching this?" calls, generally create amazement and wonder – and still get criticized

But watch it happen.

Kobe Bryant kicked ass Sunday, and if you can't understand that, then you need to try. This wasn't about Bryant being a ball hog or a bad teammate. Quite the contrary. The Los Angeles Lakers were getting pounded by the Toronto Raptors (down 16 at one point) until Kobe looked at his bad teammates and decided to try to win the game – which the Lakers did, 122-104.

ADVERTISEMENT
"It just happened," Bryant said afterward. "For me, it was all about the W. I thought we were lethargic. I wanted to ride the wave and demoralize our opponent."

And people want to criticize that?

You know, even if a few of those points were unnecessary – and because the game was in doubt until late in the fourth quarter, not many of them were – who cares? Really, what is wrong with trying to make history? Don't the Raptors get paid, too?

If a baseball player hits a home run in his first three at-bats, does anyone blame him for swinging for the fences his next time up? Does anyone complain when a manager doesn't even think to take a tiring pitcher out of a no-hitter, even if it is the best move for the team to win?

When Peyton Manning is trying to set a single-season touchdown record and calls for pass plays on first-and-goal from the 1, does anyone care?

Of course not, you expect it. You demand it, even.

So why in basketball does it matter? Is it because the players are mostly black? Is it because they are prone to preening?

Is it because in basketball you have to play both offense and defense on every single possession you are in the game, and as a result your weaknesses are up for double exposure? Is it because Kobe Bryant can be rather unlikable – be it the Shaquille O'Neal thing, or the Eagle, Colo., thing, or so many other things?

Is it because there remains this "Hoosiers"-inspired purity to the game, even if coach Norman Dale would have wanted Jimmy Chitwood to keep shooting?

Maybe it is all of that above. I don't know.

I do know that back in the 1960s and '70s it wasn't like this. The gunner was celebrated. Pete Maravich, David Thompson, even Larry Bird (in the 1980s) all admittedly were selfish on some nights. It was fun. It was part of the show.

Now, no one even tries to put up big numbers. Prior to Sunday, of the top 25 highest-scoring, non-overtime games in NBA history, only one occurred after 1978 – the 1994 season finale when David Robinson scored 71 to make the case for MVP.

Why have we sucked the fun right out of the game?

Kobe Bryant scored 66.4 percent of his team's points. Wilt, in scoring 100 in his Philadelphia Warriors' 169-147 victory, managed just 59.2 percent. So maybe Kobe's performance was better, especially since he didn't enjoy Wilt's advantage of being 7-foot-1 and 275 pounds in an era of no one else being even close.

By the way, that Warriors score also should end all the other predictable talk about how nobody plays defense in the NBA anymore. Who was playing defense on Wilt's night?

NBA players play defense. They play a ton of defense. One of the great fallacies of basketball is the idea that college guys play harder defense than the pros. Apparently, the sight of a slow guard slapping the floor in a show of "intensity" has clouded reality.

If you think the Raptors wanted Bryant to hang 81 on them, you didn't see the game. They just couldn't stop him. They tried everything, every defender.

Kobe was that on. He was that great. It was that much fun.

Yet there will be critics who claim that 81 points in a game isn't sports, that it isn't basketball.

But if you think sending chills down fans' spines isn't sports, then you need to lighten up – and tune in Friday to see if Kobe can hang 101 on Golden State.

Dan Wetzel

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

Cross-Over · 01-23-2006, 10:19 AM

goddfather40 made some excellent points. Personally, I am not a Kobe fan, and if this were a thread comparing his career to that of other great players in NBA history, I would be all for pointing out his shortcomings in that context. However, this is about his performance last night, which was an amazing feat.

His scoring craze brought his team back from a huge deficit, an appropriate time to go on a scoring binge.

For the naysayers, Morris Peterson is an average to above average perimeter defender. Mike James is a good perimeter defender. If Jalen Rose was guarding Kobe all game, then that argument about playing the Raptors and poor defense might hold a little more water. Kobe got to the line 20 times, and I am sure many of those attempts were a result of going to the basket and being fouled by help defenders. It is not as if the Raptors were playing matador defense. In addition, he hit 7 of 12 shots from downtown. Kobe has a share of the record for most 3 pointers made in a single game (12). When he gets hot from downtown, the type of defense being played on him is a null point.

Yes, he had only 2assists, but that’s better than the 0 assists he posted in his 62 point outing earlier in the year, a game where his team was ahead the entire time and not distributing the ball despite a huge lead could be considered selfish. Again, because his team was down last night and he shot so well from the floor to bring them back, not having that many assists really doesn't matter.

dylanmarsh · 01-23-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

Chamberlain changed the game. He was a beast well ahead of his time. His feats are amazing. But 81 points in the modern era compares very favourably with 100 points 25 years ago, no matter how you slice it.

So a watered-down talent pool that is the modern NBA, compares very favorably? I don't think so. There were NINE teams in 1961-62. Today, there are 30 teams, including the Toronto Raptors, who I am sure would not win more than 5 games if they played in a league like the 1961-62 NBA. In the same respect, Kobe would not score 81 points in that same type of league.

Kobe is good; I will concede that fact. But, his 81 points respresent nothing but selfishness, poor coaching, and lack of team concept.

Borla · 01-23-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddfather40

Seriously, guys. What the fuck does Kobe have to do to please you?

Do what every truly GREAT player does............make his teammates better. Kobe can average 50 points a game all season and all it proves it that he is a great scorer, which I already think he is. It doesn't make him a great player IMO.

Glory's Sun · 01-23-2006, 10:50 AM

I think Kobe and Jake Plummer should become roommates

hehehe ok.. anyway back to the subject at hand. Kobe scoring 81 points is pretty cool from a fan point of view but it's not something that I will sit around talking about.. not even after a few drinks.

highthief · 01-23-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylanmarsh

So a watered-down talent pool that is the modern NBA, compares very favorably? I don't think so. There were NINE teams in 1961-62. Today, there are 30 teams, including the Toronto Raptors, who I am sure would not win more than 5 games if they played in a league like the 1961-62 NBA. In the same respect, Kobe would not score 81 points in that same type of league.

Kobe is good; I will concede that fact. But, his 81 points respresent nothing but selfishness, poor coaching, and lack of team concept.

The talent in today's NBA - taking greater advantage not only of black athletes within the US to a greater degree than back in 62, the huge popularity of basketball that has more and more excellent athletes pursuing the sport to a higher level, and taking advantage of the international talent available that was not either used or available back in the 60s - makes today's teams, overall, superior of the 60s teams.

Let's not let nostalgia colour things. The rules were changed because Chamberlain was a generation ahead of his time, but overall, NBA was not what it is today. The concept that the talent pool today is watered down has no basis in reality.

Xazy · 01-23-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurant

Too bad we aren't talking about Wilt here.

In 1962 when Wilt scored 100, his team didn't make the NBA finals. Ironically, Kobe will suffer the same fate. He wasen't even MVP. A guy by the name of Bill Russel was. (I think, I'll check history here in a minute.)

81 is a huge number no matter who it is. It's not like the Raptors are some high school squad. They are an NBA team. No player in the NBA sucks. As good as others? Perhaps not, but none of them, and mean none of them suck.

I dont buy into any Kobe hype. He's shown us he can win championships swinging in Shaq's nuts, but he's yet to prove to anyone he's a winner.

First no one can not say, wow, amazing, great that is just incredible.

Well there are a few things. First of all the 76ers and Lakers have the same problem, it is basically a one man show. If Iverson or Kobe do not show up the game is lost.

As far as MVP goes, he is not that, he does not increase the quality of team play, rather becomes the main scorer for the game. I still think Nash should remain as MVP for this year (if I was to judge to date). Kobe has still had arguements with people on his team, and still has ego issues. But you have to give him his credit he leads the league in scoring, and last night was incredible.

Also to those who talk about not having a ring, there are a ton of players who never got a ring. My favorite of those is Dan Marino (ok different sport, similiar concept).

dtheriault · 01-23-2006, 10:14 PM

All of Jordan's teams were better then this horrible Laker team. He would pass if he had anyone to pass to. (And don't even mention Lamar who is too scared to shoot) When Shaq was on the team Kobe led all SGs in the league in assists per game.

Kobe shoots because he has to. It's like Randall Cunningham, or Mike Vick. If you're the only talent on your team sometimes you have to get the job done. The ultimate measure of a player is "did his team win?" and "could they have won without him?" those answers are yes and no and nothing else matters.

He may not be the MVP (I would pick Nash) but if he's not in the top 3 then they better rename the award.

cameroncrazy822 · 01-24-2006, 05:56 AM

Pretty cool personal achievment but he will always be a second rate facsimilile of his idol... MJ.

Borla · 01-24-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtheriault

When Shaq was on the team Kobe led all SGs in the league in assists per game.

You sure about that?

Let me pose this question...........would people rather have Michael Jordan during his prime on their team, or Kobe Bryant today on their team?

Borla · 01-24-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtheriault

When Shaq was on the team Kobe led all SGs in the league in assists per game.

His assists per game is under 5, even with the years Shaq was there.

As prolific a scorer as he was, Jordan averaged over that NINE times, and even averaged as high as 8 per game. He made his teammates better. Kobe just conditions his to stand around.

goddfather40 · 01-24-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borla

His assists per game is under 5, even with the years Shaq was there.

As prolific a scorer as he was, Jordan averaged over that NINE times, and even averaged as high as 8 per game. He made his teammates better. Kobe just conditions his to stand around.

Ok, Borla, you hate Kobe, we get it. But saying he is not a great 'player' or whatever is asinine.

A lot of Kobe's career average per game stats are a little skewed since he really wasn't in the starting lineup much during his first 2 years. His assists per game for each year starting in '99 (the year he started starting games) are as follows:

1999 3.8
99-00 4.9
00-01 5.0
01-02 5.5
02-03 5.9
03-04 5.1
04-05 6.0

This compares favorably to Michael, who I'll give you had one very big assist year 88-89, where he averaged 8.0 apg and averaged well over 32.5 ppg (fucking awesome year by the way). The rest of Michael's assist per game averages were very, very similar to what Kobe has done. Kobe has averaged over 5 apg five times, almost six times (in 2000 he averaged 4.9). Kobe is 27 right now, would you care to tell me how many times MJ averaged at least 5 apg by 27? How about 5 times as well.

Kobe is quickly coming back into public adoration, and the haters can't stand it.

By the way, I got the stats from http://www.basketball-reference.com

Borla · 01-25-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddfather40

Ok, Borla, you hate Kobe, we get it. But saying he is not a great 'player' or whatever is asinine.

A lot of Kobe's career average per game stats are a little skewed since he really wasn't in the starting lineup much during his first 2 years. His assists per game for each year starting in '99 (the year he started starting games) are as follows:

1999 3.8
99-00 4.9
00-01 5.0
01-02 5.5
02-03 5.9
03-04 5.1
04-05 6.0

This compares favorably to Michael, who I'll give you had one very big assist year 88-89, where he averaged 8.0 apg and averaged well over 32.5 ppg (fucking awesome year by the way). The rest of Michael's assist per game averages were very, very similar to what Kobe has done. Kobe has averaged over 5 apg five times, almost six times (in 2000 he averaged 4.9). Kobe is 27 right now, would you care to tell me how many times MJ averaged at least 5 apg by 27? How about 5 times as well.

Kobe is quickly coming back into public adoration, and the haters can't stand it.

By the way, I got the stats from http://www.basketball-reference.com

I actually don't "hate" Kobe, his whole attitude since Shaq came to the Lakers has just turned me off to him.

Comparing Michael and Kobe by age isn't fair, since Michael went to college, and missed almost an entire season to injury in his second year.

As far as comparing them by year, or whatever, all I have to say is that when comparing their bodies of work, I think it's always going to come out that Michael was the better overall player, and was much, MUCH better at making those around him better. Kobe is one of the top 5 guys playing today. He's probably going to end up in the top 10-20 players of all time by almost everyone's definition. I just think it's a joke to speak of him in the same breath as Jordan when looking at him as an overall player. Scorer? Yes. When including assists, rebounds, defense, effect on teammates, effect on team chemistry, etc., I don't think there is even an argument. For those same reasons I'll always say I'd rather have had Bill Russell on my team over Wilt Chamberlain.

Just my $.02, not saying anyone has to agree.

docbungle · 01-26-2006, 12:21 AM

I watch sports for entertainment purposes. The same reason I watch movies, read this forum and play games on my XBox.

Watching Kobe score 81 points was absolutely 100% entertaining.

Halx · 01-26-2006, 12:44 AM

I wish I could have seen it. I believe those who criticize Kobe's performance misunderstand the role of basketball and sports in our lives. Not one them would, if they could, look Kobe in the eye and say, "but you'll never live up to Wilt." He wasn't trying to live up to Wilt. He wasn't trying to score a triple double either. It's his job to a) win basketball games for his team, and b) fill the Staples Center with paying customers. At halftime, his team was down by double digits and all the fans were rolling their eyes. But guess what he did...

He did exactly what he needed to do. You can't fuckin' criticize that. You want to - because you don't want to see his name in lights - because you feel it's an insult to Wilt or MJ if he's mentioned in the same breath - but it's not because he wasn't fuckin' great. Because he was.

crow_daw · 01-26-2006, 06:06 PM

Allright it's all been said: Kobe did an absolutely fuckin' incredible job. He really did. Dude went the tee-total fuck off. No doubt about it. One of the best performances in sports history.

BUT

I agree with other comments that have been made as well. To me, the measure of a truly legendary athlete is being a "winner". Case in point: Tom Brady. He is just flat-out a winner. Give me a winner over a Kobe Bryant any day. Seriously. I honestly am not trying to deteriorate his accomplishment, but the guy has GOT to prove that he can win championships. I'm not saying that he can't, I'm just saying that until he does, then he honestly does not belong on the same list as Wilt, MJ, etc. He just doesn't. Not YET.

Also, the fact that David Robinson only scored ten less than this 12 years ago has only been mentioned once, in passing, throughout the course of this thread. How many people really remembered that? I did, because I'm a huge Spurs fan, but my point is that, while it is one HELL of an accomplishment, it does NOT qualify him as one of the Absolute Best Ever. It just doesn't.

Again, not YET.

dtheriault · 01-26-2006, 09:33 PM

Good point with the David Robinson call. Guys like Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguire, Dominque Wilkins were all amazing scorers. You just couldn't shut them down. But kids today don't know who they are. But they do know

Magic
MJ
Bird
Wilt
Jerry West
Bill Russell

Kobe is really, really, really good- even great sometimes. But he wants to be an immortal, not MJ part II, but Kobe defined as himself with a legacy, a mistique, and memories all his own. And to do that he's going to have to win at least 1 if not 2 titles as "the man" on his team.

I think he can do it. His game has really moved outside and while your body might start breaking down at age 30 you can still jam from outside until 35. There's no way the Lakers don't get someone big to join him before he's 32-33.

trickyy · 01-27-2006, 12:23 AM

i guess he doesn't quite have a team or his own championship, but he had a legendary game

(jointheclippersjointheclippers)

Marvelous Marv · 01-28-2006, 02:52 PM

I'm sure the game was fun to watch. However, I prefer to watch games that are won by the team I'm pulling for.

I wouldn't go out of my way to get an autograph from Kobe, or Barry Bonds, or T.O., or any of the other athletes that can't even get their own teammates to speak to them. That's why their teams don't win championships--because it takes teamwork.

Give me Magic, or MJ, or even Walton. If you were a guard on Walton's team, you knew he'd have a pass to you before his feet hit the floor from the rebound.

THOSE guys are autographs worth having.

thingstodo · 02-02-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goddfather40

Seriously, guys. What the fuck does Kobe have to do to please you? I am not trying to compare Kobe to Wilt or anything, just comparing the hallowed hundred point game to Kobe's 81 point game. Don't give me the lame it was against the Raptors bullshit, or that he only had 2 assists (Wilt was the greatest passing center ever and that ballhog only had 2 assists in his 100 game). Kobe had EIGHTY-ONE fucking points. He shot 60% from the field, Wilt only shot 53% in his 100 point game. He brought his team back from an 18 point early 3rd quarter deficit by scoring 51 points after that. Nobody was making any shots, I think Lamar was like 1 for 7 at that point, so Kobe did what he had to do.

You can attack the fact he hasn't won a ring without Shaq card, and that is a perfectly valid point. But nobody, even Michael could take this Laker team deep into the playoffs. The Lakers are setting everything up for a championship run by 2008, when all the pieces should be in place.

OK, here's my answer. It's called a basketball TEAM. Notice the upper case letters for emphasis. It doesn't matter how many you score if your TEAM doesn't win. It's like a crappy manager that tries to do everyone's job for them because he thinks they can't. They stop doing their jobs. They aren't happy. They leave.

It's neat to watch a freak show of any kind, and I certainly don't begrudge someone cutting loose once in a while. Of those choices, Kobe is in the formaer role, not the latter.

01-22-2006, 10:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
dtheriault Psycho Location: maybe utah	Kobe scores 81 points tonight Against the Raptors. Lamar said Kobe got mad, then real quiet. Lamar said Kobe is really scary when he's silent mad. The Lakers should punch Kobe in the face every night and tell him he sucks and will never be half as good as Jordan. 81 points. I get tired just counting to 81. I'm not even a huge Kobe fan, but you have to admit that guy has absolutely no quit in him. __________________ "Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

01-23-2006, 02:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	Against the Raptors? Let's put a * next to those 81 points... Like playing against a guy with one leg. __________________ Feh.

01-23-2006, 04:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	That is mind-boggling! It's at least equal to Chamberlain's 100 point mark, IMO - because Chamberlain was a superfreak in a time of ordinary mortals. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

01-23-2006, 06:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
Toaster126 Extreme moderation Location: Kansas City, yo.	Yeah, no mere mortal should ever be compared to The Wilt, hallowed be His name. He was a monster. And, from what I hear, he would like TFP too. __________________ "The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand) "The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

01-23-2006, 08:57 AM	#10 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	What is that? 39 baskets and a 3 pointer? How many minutes did he play? At what point (as the Raptors coach) do you have to call your players in and say "uh, who is guarding Kobe?" guy raises his hand "You might want to try a little harder there, sport." __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

01-23-2006, 01:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
strange Insane Location: So. Cal.	Freakin awesome. Even if you hate Kobe, that was something to behold.

01-23-2006, 08:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	Too bad we aren't talking about Wilt here. In 1962 when Wilt scored 100, his team didn't make the NBA finals. Ironically, Kobe will suffer the same fate. He wasen't even MVP. A guy by the name of Bill Russel was. (I think, I'll check history here in a minute.) 81 is a huge number no matter who it is. It's not like the Raptors are some high school squad. They are an NBA team. No player in the NBA sucks. As good as others? Perhaps not, but none of them, and mean none of them suck. I dont buy into any Kobe hype. He's shown us he can win championships swinging in Shaq's nuts, but he's yet to prove to anyone he's a winner.

01-23-2006, 09:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
goddfather40 Llama Location: Cali-for-nye-a	Seriously, guys. What the fuck does Kobe have to do to please you? I am not trying to compare Kobe to Wilt or anything, just comparing the hallowed hundred point game to Kobe's 81 point game. Don't give me the lame it was against the Raptors bullshit, or that he only had 2 assists (Wilt was the greatest passing center ever and that ballhog only had 2 assists in his 100 game). Kobe had EIGHTY-ONE fucking points. He shot 60% from the field, Wilt only shot 53% in his 100 point game. He brought his team back from an 18 point early 3rd quarter deficit by scoring 51 points after that. Nobody was making any shots, I think Lamar was like 1 for 7 at that point, so Kobe did what he had to do. You can attack the fact he hasn't won a ring without Shaq card, and that is a perfectly valid point. But nobody, even Michael could take this Laker team deep into the playoffs. The Lakers are setting everything up for a championship run by 2008, when all the pieces should be in place. __________________ My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message. I got ho's and I got bitches, In C++ I branch with switches -MC Plus+

01-23-2006, 10:19 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cross-Over Psycho	goddfather40 made some excellent points. Personally, I am not a Kobe fan, and if this were a thread comparing his career to that of other great players in NBA history, I would be all for pointing out his shortcomings in that context. However, this is about his performance last night, which was an amazing feat. His scoring craze brought his team back from a huge deficit, an appropriate time to go on a scoring binge. For the naysayers, Morris Peterson is an average to above average perimeter defender. Mike James is a good perimeter defender. If Jalen Rose was guarding Kobe all game, then that argument about playing the Raptors and poor defense might hold a little more water. Kobe got to the line 20 times, and I am sure many of those attempts were a result of going to the basket and being fouled by help defenders. It is not as if the Raptors were playing matador defense. In addition, he hit 7 of 12 shots from downtown. Kobe has a share of the record for most 3 pointers made in a single game (12). When he gets hot from downtown, the type of defense being played on him is a null point. Yes, he had only 2assists, but that’s better than the 0 assists he posted in his 62 point outing earlier in the year, a game where his team was ahead the entire time and not distributing the ball despite a huge lead could be considered selfish. Again, because his team was down last night and he shot so well from the floor to bring them back, not having that many assists really doesn't matter.

01-23-2006, 10:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I think Kobe and Jake Plummer should become roommates hehehe ok.. anyway back to the subject at hand. Kobe scoring 81 points is pretty cool from a fan point of view but it's not something that I will sit around talking about.. not even after a few drinks.

01-23-2006, 10:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
dtheriault Psycho Location: maybe utah	All of Jordan's teams were better then this horrible Laker team. He would pass if he had anyone to pass to. (And don't even mention Lamar who is too scared to shoot) When Shaq was on the team Kobe led all SGs in the league in assists per game. Kobe shoots because he has to. It's like Randall Cunningham, or Mike Vick. If you're the only talent on your team sometimes you have to get the job done. The ultimate measure of a player is "did his team win?" and "could they have won without him?" those answers are yes and no and nothing else matters. He may not be the MVP (I would pick Nash) but if he's not in the top 3 then they better rename the award. __________________ "Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

01-24-2006, 05:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
cameroncrazy822 Junkie Location: MD	Pretty cool personal achievment but he will always be a second rate facsimilile of his idol... MJ.

01-26-2006, 12:21 AM	#27 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	I watch sports for entertainment purposes. The same reason I watch movies, read this forum and play games on my XBox. Watching Kobe score 81 points was absolutely 100% entertaining. __________________ Bad Luck City

01-26-2006, 12:44 AM	#28 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I wish I could have seen it. I believe those who criticize Kobe's performance misunderstand the role of basketball and sports in our lives. Not one them would, if they could, look Kobe in the eye and say, "but you'll never live up to Wilt." He wasn't trying to live up to Wilt. He wasn't trying to score a triple double either. It's his job to a) win basketball games for his team, and b) fill the Staples Center with paying customers. At halftime, his team was down by double digits and all the fans were rolling their eyes. But guess what he did... He did exactly what he needed to do. You can't fuckin' criticize that. You want to - because you don't want to see his name in lights - because you feel it's an insult to Wilt or MJ if he's mentioned in the same breath - but it's not because he wasn't fuckin' great. Because he was. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-26-2006, 06:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
crow_daw Idolator Location: Vol Country	Allright it's all been said: Kobe did an absolutely fuckin' incredible job. He really did. Dude went the tee-total fuck off. No doubt about it. One of the best performances in sports history. BUT I agree with other comments that have been made as well. To me, the measure of a truly legendary athlete is being a "winner". Case in point: Tom Brady. He is just flat-out a winner. Give me a winner over a Kobe Bryant any day. Seriously. I honestly am not trying to deteriorate his accomplishment, but the guy has GOT to prove that he can win championships. I'm not saying that he can't, I'm just saying that until he does, then he honestly does not belong on the same list as Wilt, MJ, etc. He just doesn't. Not YET. Also, the fact that David Robinson only scored ten less than this 12 years ago has only been mentioned once, in passing, throughout the course of this thread. How many people really remembered that? I did, because I'm a huge Spurs fan, but my point is that, while it is one HELL of an accomplishment, it does NOT qualify him as one of the Absolute Best Ever. It just doesn't. Again, not YET. __________________ "We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

01-26-2006, 09:33 PM	#30 (permalink)
dtheriault Psycho Location: maybe utah	Good point with the David Robinson call. Guys like Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguire, Dominque Wilkins were all amazing scorers. You just couldn't shut them down. But kids today don't know who they are. But they do know Magic MJ Bird Wilt Jerry West Bill Russell Kobe is really, really, really good- even great sometimes. But he wants to be an immortal, not MJ part II, but Kobe defined as himself with a legacy, a mistique, and memories all his own. And to do that he's going to have to win at least 1 if not 2 titles as "the man" on his team. I think he can do it. His game has really moved outside and while your body might start breaking down at age 30 you can still jam from outside until 35. There's no way the Lakers don't get someone big to join him before he's 32-33. __________________ "Remember, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen." -Homer Unless you are the freakin Highlander, what is the point in learning how to fight with a sword?

01-27-2006, 12:23 AM	#31 (permalink)
trickyy ►	i guess he doesn't quite have a team or his own championship, but he had a legendary game (jointheclippersjointheclippers)

01-28-2006, 02:52 PM	#32 (permalink)
Marvelous Marv Cunning Runt Location: Taking a mulligan	I'm sure the game was fun to watch. However, I prefer to watch games that are won by the team I'm pulling for. I wouldn't go out of my way to get an autograph from Kobe, or Barry Bonds, or T.O., or any of the other athletes that can't even get their own teammates to speak to them. That's why their teams don't win championships--because it takes teamwork. Give me Magic, or MJ, or even Walton. If you were a guard on Walton's team, you knew he'd have a pass to you before his feet hit the floor from the rebound. THOSE guys are autographs worth having. __________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher