I've read the whole thread. And all I can say is wow. Love and sex take time and work. Things are getting stressful right now, but there will always be times of stress. Congrats on making an appoinment with the doc LPM. Is it possible to rearrange schedules so you can both be there? linkx, take care of LPM. She needs you right now. This is a time that you both need to be there for each other. Sometimes we just need to step away from sex to straighten everything else out. Let this experience, and figuring it out, draw you closer together. Good luck.

Wow, lots of angry people here...

It's too bad, someone comes here, and is honest and asks for help, and all we can give them is a nose in the air and a 'YOU NEED TO BREAK UP RIGHT NOW!" rather than some honest caring advice? Cmon guys, we're family here! Some of the people that posted have been nice about it, and if you've read the whole thread, you'll see that LPM and Link are actually talking rationally and taking advice and trying to fix their problems. All that some of you are doing with posting the mean comments are hurting the situation even more. Don't you think LPM and Link feel bad enough about the situation already that they would bring it here? Give them the benefit of the doubt, that they do love each other and do belong together.

I like sex as much as the next guy, and have a feeling I want it just as often as Link does, but that doesn't define me as a person. Sex is not all that a loving caring relationship is about. Relationships are about compromise and working together to find a happy middle ground, which is what it looks like is going on here now.

Now, on to the lovebirds! :thumbsup:

Good job on making the doctors apointments, and seeing a head-shrinker. I do think couple's counseling might help, and you can usually get it for free if you aren't horribly opposed to talking to someone from a church.

I would talk to your doctor about slowly backing off the medication you are taking, and maybe switching birth-control methods. Also LPM, fix your diet! If you aren't eating right, I'm not surprised your body would be acting a little funny! Link, make her do it! You guys are planning on spending the rest of your lives together, you need to start watching out for each other now!

As for the sex thing, work together until you get everything straightened out! If sex isn't enjoyable for you, and you can't bear to think of him jerking off by himself, get involved! You don't have to have him pentrate you to be involved! It's called titty-fucking! :thumbsup:

Or at least be there, touching him, talking to him and touching yourself!

Now that I've thoroughly emberassed myself and everyone else, I'll bid ya adieu! Love you guys! Hope everything works out! :D

Irishsean, nothing screams anger louder than your avatar, but I digress.

Telling someone marriage is a bad idea is NOT being mean. It's being realistic.

If you're not even 20, in a troubled relationship where one of the members is in need of long term counseling, plus the couple is on a rocky road and in need of couples counseling, there is no way you should get married. Period. End of story.

Why make life so difficult? Why thrash around in a troubled relationship when you're so young? Why not enjoy life at that age? Does LPM think that getting married will make her happier and less anguished? Maybe in the short run, but not in the long run.

There are better ways to say it than "Break up with her and find someone who can be sexual!" How about, "Make sure you work thru any and all problems before you actually get married!" See, much more positive and still the same idea!

As for my avatar, ironic isn't it! I'm a sweetheart!

Does that equal bad wife? What's the magic number? Once a week?

Sometimes life is just what it is.

People tend to equate being married with having access to sex 24/7. How absurd is that? Even married people have things to do like work, friends, family, etc. which can restrict sex via time, stress, other activities, cycles etc.

Skogafoss sometimes feels like you because sometimes we go 1-2 weeks without having any bed time and I tell her that I would like for it to be more often. What she doesn't understand sometimes is that sometimes I don't feel like it when she's interested in having sex. I used to feel guilty about it seeing as maybe the day before I was a bit miffed to her rebuffs and maybe this was my only time before we'd get another chance 1-2 weeks from then.

Wow, where to begin. I apologize ahead of time if I happened to miss anything. I came here late in the discussion and had to read a lot.

I guess I'll begin with the first thing that came to my mind at the first post.
- You said that sex burns. I have had sex that burns and afterwards I feel almost bruised even if it was a gentle quickie. There have been a few reasons for the burning.
1. Bacterial Vaginosis - partly a result of imbalanced Ph. Often Dr's don't even check for it because it's soooo common and because many women don't have symptoms because of it. SOMETIMES it shows up in a Pap as abnormal cells but that's only if it has currently caused inflammation. It often does not show up on a regular Pap so possibly wouldn't have shown up on the Pap at the gym.
2. Yeasties - not so often do they cause me to feel burning but it does sometimes affect me that way. That would not show up on a regular Pap.
3. Condoms. You may have burning without condoms but if it intensifies WITH condoms then I would chuck those Latex ones. I'm allergic to Latex and it burns like icyhot in my vagina if I use a latex condom. I keep some non-latex condoms in my bedstand all the time. Renew them regularly.
4. I'm allergic to the KY liquid lube and especially the warming liquid. I have to use a water soluble, unflavors, unsented gel - the Walmart generic gel lube seems the best. When I used the KY liquid lube it made my burn for hours until I washed it all off.
5. Do you use scented pantyliners, or babypowder? Any harsh scents or chemicals on your genitals could affect you. Try going unscented and unadulterated for a while. If you need something to keep you dry you could sprinkle some baking soda in your panties or use unscented liners. Also use cotton panties. I can go all day feeling fine but if I've been using babypowder and then hubby and I play that night I'll feel the burning.

-Second thing that came to mind. Just because you're libidos are currently different doesn't mean that can change. From personal experience hubby and I have gone through times of very different libidos. Sooo much can affect your libido. Stress, health, discomfort, and emotional pressure. For a time hubby was asking for sex practically 3 times a day - more if we had time. I got to the point that I didn't want ANY sex at all. Hubby never could let me INITIATE it and it felt like I was more a tool instead of mutual sex partner. I talked to him about it after which he laid off asking for sex for a couple days actually. It was amazing how it changed my viewpoint. I wasn't super horny but I could think about sex without feeling turned off. At that point I initiated it before he could. That gave me such a feeling of empowerment and when he responded with joy it boosted that feeling. It was a turn on for me to initiate it. That helped our sex life a lot. He learned to let me go at my own pace sometimes and I got more turned on about WANTING to play.

-Next thing that came to mind - I don't know a lot about the Nuvaring but I would get the whole gamut of tests for BV, Yeast, and any other possible problems before getting it. If you have BV or anything else then the combination of treatment creams and Nuvaring chemicals could cause you more trouble. I don't know but I wonder if Nuvaring would affect the Ph in your vagina too. It would be something important for you to ask about.

-Another thought. Do you want the Nuvaring or the shot because of the convenience and because you might forget to take the pill?? If not then I would recommend asking you Dr for a very low dose pill. The more closely to your normal estrogen/progesterone levels that your hormones are at the more normal your sex drive will be.

I don't think you guys should truely consider splitting up - at least not yet. If you can't work through these problems you'll probably have some of the same upsets and sexual problems with the next guy too. Most guys have quite a libido. It's common for the women to not be as sexual. Women tend to be a little more emotional and their libido is more easily affected by emotion and daily stress. Don't feel guilty for your lack of enjoyment of sex. If you guys are willing to work hard on getting through this trouble you will have a better foundation for a future marriage.

One more thought - Don't worry if your honey wants to jack off a little even if you're around. I'm not so good with handjobs and when I had my wisdom tooth pulled I had my period that same week. We were both left without sex for about a week and oral wasn't in the picture with my bloody socket. So he did handjobs sometimes with me sometimes without. When I was around I would touch him, kiss him all over, and in general enjoy the scene. He would come on me, or elseware - whatever your choice. Just don't feel quilty for any situation that you find yourselves sexually.

I wish you both the best.

OOh, I must have missed the point where LPM said she didn't like Kevin masturbating? I hope that's not true because it's a serious problem. No woman can always satisfy any man. You're not always there! And men masturbate for lots of reasons besides horniness: stress relief, boredom, whatever. You don't want him coming to you for all those reasons, you will be exhausted! If you don't want him having sexual experiences without you, then go ahead and let him masturbate to you--strip for him or kiss and caress him while he's going at it. For when you're not there, let him take lots of pictres of you and use them as porn. Or, let him call you and talk dirty to him. Or, let him hump your butt in the shower ;)

This is important, so I'm going to yell.

GO SEE A DOCTOR. SPECIFCALLY THIS ONE. He's in San Fransisco, I think I remember something about you being in the bay area?

<a href='http://www.jmweissmd.com/index.html'>http://www.jmweissmd.com/index.html</a>

Most ob/gyns know NOTHING about pain during sex. IT IS REAL, IT CAN BE TREATED, IF LEFT ALONE IT WILL DESTROY YOUR RELATIONSHIP.

I know this. My ex girlfriend had the same problem, and despite going to counseling, our relationship, although good in almost every other way could not survive. I cannot tell you how damaging it was for both of us.

For reference of others, the problem that LPM is having will not be solved by more lube, changing birth control (although that may help the libido problems) or therapy. It is a real physical problem that isn't as rare as you might think.

CHECK THIS LINK TOO.

http://www.sexwithoutpain.com/

Also, get <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0970029810/ref=pd_null_recs_b_i/104-9360348-5474359?v=glance&s=books"> THIS </a> book...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE feel free to PM me. I know a LOT about this subject, having to deal with it for two years (albeit from the male point of view) and knowing personally how hard it is. I know how it must make you feel, the sense of sexual inadequacy. It was awful for my ex and unbelievably frustrating for me.

Shit, I don't think anyone under the age of 25 should get married, period. The statistics are atrocious. Some people may never really know themselves enough to be a good husband/wife/partner, but the odds get drastically better as you approach your 30s.

Anyways, LPM, please keep us posted.

About the marriage thing: You don't have to get married to be 'together'. You don't even have to be engaged. You don't need a ring or a piece of paper stating you are in love and are remaining together. Alot of times being married or engaged has negatives effects as your relationship now has a title that the couple usually has to hold. Take your time.

I don't have time to read all the posts as I'm quickly falling asleep. If I don't post, I'll probably forget in the morning.

Anyway, I thought it was normal for young women to have less of a sex drive young men of the same age? Eventually it all evens out- women start to want it more and men start to want it less. Anyway, that's what I thought at least.

I'm sorry, but people can beat the 'odds', both ways. Example of the opposite way- my parents are unhappily married (they have nothing in common, etc). They were married in their early 30's. I think something like 33 and 31? They are now in their mid 50's and my mom is bored (she doesn't work and has no interest in my dad's hobbies) and my dad has job burnout.

And FOR young marriage- nwlinkvxd's parents have been married since they were 16 and 18. They have been able to stick through taking in her siblings when they first got married (they did this so that they wouldnt go to a foster home), through bankruptcy, and through many hard times. They are now just about in their early 50's and are still married.

Kevin and I are not planning on getting married right now, as I have said several times. The date has changed so much, it's ridiculous, but because I am going to move in with him in two months, we have postponed the date to after graduation from university. This puts us at around 2007/2008. I will be 21/22, and he would be 22/23. Sure it's not 25, but what's the magic number, eh?

Acetylene, about the whole masturbation thing- I have nothing really against him masturbating. I masturbate too. It's just, when he has to go into the bathroom with his laptop to jack off because I didn't give him anything, I feel bad.

I'm going to my doctor- anyone have any advice as to how I should present this to her? As many of you know, I'm 18 (going on 19 in April), and because of this, a lot of people don't take me (or any young person) seriously. I want to make sure my doctor does take me seriously, and doesn't just brush me off because of my age.

If the doctor brushes you off because of your age, find another doctor, One who will listen to you.

But basically come in prepared. Write down everything that you are feeling, that you want to discuss with them.

Main points being:
1. Painful intercourse.
2. Diminished libido
3. Options in birth control. You need to be on BC because of the Accutane, but what you are on right now, from what you have read (and do research the side effects) isn't working for you . What else is there? Let the doctor give you some guidence there and ask about the side effects.
4. Personal conflicts you are going thru right now, and how you would benefit from talking to someone.

And seriously, write it down, doctors are often rushed, their appointments are often double booked, by writing it down, and having those notes with you, you aren't trying to remember things.

When you get to the therapist, also write down your concerns there. Family history, diminished libido, painful intercourse again (if it's been ruled out that it's nothing physical causing the problem), you've mentioned more than once that you don't think you treat kevin that well, I would also mention that... You are paying a therapist -- don't withhold and really be honest.

As maleficent said, be prepared and don't take no for an answer. When my ex went in for the first few times they did some tests, told her nothing was wrong and that everything would clear up by itself. BULLSHIT! I know it's sometimes hard to stand up for yourself when you're young, but this is unbelievably important to you, your health and your relationship.

#1 tip, get educated. As I said in my earlier post, most ob/gyns know fuck all about these kinds of problems. There's some chance that you'll have to educate your doctor. Buy that book. Hell, I'll buy it for you, just let me know where to send it. Start searching the web. There are other women out there with similar problems and help is available. You are not alone in this.

If I seem pissed about this, it's because I am. I'd hate to see anyone elses relationship go down the drain because of the ignorance of the medical community and people in general.

Thank you for your concern, really. Do you think that my doctor would allow nwlinkvxd to come in with me? I will try to make sure my doctor doesn't just blow this off, and express my genuine concern.

I should probably clear up what kind of pain I am having, to the details: When we're going from behind and he goes in pretty much the whole way, typically I feel a sharp stabbing pain in my pelvic region/stomach. Otherwise, I feel a burning sensation of friction in the opening, even if I open the inner labia (think that's what they're called). This increases with condoms (which we use less and less frequently because of this), and sometimes causes a slight bruised feeling (which stays for about a day and I can feel it when I wipe after peeing). We don't use KY warming gel (although we tried it) because it is causes horrible burning, and most other lubes don't really help. Everytime we have sex, it feels like we are SQUEEZING him in.

As time has gone by, orgasms are more difficult to achieve. I use a vibrator to get myself off, and it still takes a good five minutes at least, I would say. I have never had an internal orgasm, and have never even been close from what I've read. Oral sex takes a good fifteen to twenty minutes sometimes. This is why I say there must be a change in libido.

And mal, thanks a lot. That helps me with what I can say, a lot.

It's not your doctor's choice if link comes in, it's your choice.

edit cuz i kin spel gud.

Call the doctor's office ahead of time, and ask. Generally they prefer you go in by yourself, just in case any questions come up, that Kevin doesn't need to know about (and that doesn't mean to imply at all that you are keeping something from him) but a lot of doctors feel you will be more honest if you are by yourself. But, bring him if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Details will help, and writing it down will really help you to remember. Don't feel like you are bothering the doctor, they are there to help you, but they can only do so much, with the info they are given, you have to be proactive and give them as much info as possible.

Oh, #2 tip, be proactive. Attack the problem with the intent of solving it. Do not count on anyone else to do it for you. If you are passive nothing will happen, resentment will build and you'll find yourself in a much more unpleasant situation than you are now.

Kevin can come with you and he should if he wants to. I went to the first appointment we had with Dr. Weiss and it was really helpful, I wish I had been to the earlier appointments where they told her nothing was wrong. Although this is mostly about you, it's also about him and he'll benefit from the education too.

My ex had problems similar to yours, especially the burning sensations. But from your description of 'sqeezing him in' it sounds like you may have vaginismus. It's a condition often brought on by trauma that causes an involuntary contaction of the vaginal muscles. Sometimes it can be so much that penetration is impossible. It may be that the condition is worsening because of the continuing pain that intercourse is causing you. It's treatable with dialators that slowly over time stretch and loosen the muscles.

Here's more info about that...
<a href='http://www.sexwithoutpain.com/vaginismus.htm'> http://www.sexwithoutpain.com/vaginismus.htm</a>

The burning sensation can be caused by transfer of neural signals. The nerves for the pelvic floor muscles and the skin of the vagina are in close proximity. Electrical spikes caused by muscle twinges can transfer to the nerves of the skin, causing burning or stabbing sensations. I'm not saying that this is what's going on, but it seems likely.

my girlfriend and i have been dating for about 2 1\2 years now... and sex...LOL sex is like a once a year thing..... :*( its sad to say.

maybe when she matures a little, and she dosent thing she is preg EVERYTIME. lol

LPM, you may have addressed this already and I just missed it, but I have a question for ya...

Has sex always been like that? Was it like that back when you first started having sex, or is it a recent development?

taken off medem.com:

"Vaginismus is a spasm of the muscles at the opening of the vagina. It causes pain when your partner tries to enter the vagina. In some cases, vaginismus is present the first time a woman has — or tries to have — sex. The pain also may occur during a pelvic exam.

Vaginismus also can be a response to a fear of some kind, such as being afraid of getting pregnant...

Pain during sex sometimes can be linked to a state of mind. Emotional factors, like memories or fears, can keep you from relaxing. Some women may feel guilty having sex. Or, some women may be afraid of getting pregnant or getting a sexually transmitted disease (STD). Sometimes, a past bad sexual experience, such as rape or sexual abuse, may be the cause. All these factors may make it hard to relax during sex. This prevents arousal and lubrication."

you might feel a little less pain if, instead of foreplay (dep. on what you do/consider foreplay), you tried getting close to orgasm, then trying sex.

see what you can find on "vaginismus." that could be what's going on. anyway...have you tried getting most of the way to orgasm (not all) before sex? you may be more relaxed then. also, finding a way to use a vibrator with him/something else inside of you may make it more bearable.

As others have already said - be persistant. If your doc just says something to the effect that it really isn't a big deal, or it might go away on it's own, or that it's all psychological - DON"T let it be the final answer. Just say "but" I need help now AND I'm going to conseling too. Ask her to check for all the possible vaginal conditions including yeast, bacterial infection, or anything else you can think of.

Look up all the information you can find on a site such as WedMD and read all you can. The more armed with knowledge about the possible conditions (as scary as some may sound) the more educated about your situation you will feel and sound. Your Dr will see that you are serious about getting this taken care of. Make sure they know how long you've been dealing with this. If they shug you off after you have pushed to get things checked out then let them know that you are going to another Dr in another clinic. It will tell them you aren't satisfied with your care - they may wake up then. I am looking at worst case scenerio though. If you find a good responsible Dr they will start out looking for all the possibilities right away without you having to push. I wish you good luck.

Replying a bit late, but a couple of things:

1. Based on that IM snippet you posted, sounds like your guy is largely at fault for putting a big-time guilt trip on you. He went on about how it's natural to have a strong sex drive (ergo, it's unnatural not to have a strong sex drive, and you, therefore are unnatural). He says he's tired of waiting all the time, but that it's not your fault. That's passive-aggressive guilt trip if I've ever heard one. I feel your pain when you talk about the pressure he's putting on you--that kind of pressure would freak me out too. It's really a turn-off.

2. Is it sex just with this one guy or is it sex in general? If he was considerate, he'd be going nice and gentle, not banging so deeply it hurts you.

3. There are alternatives to vaginal sex. I was in a year-long "celibate" relationship with a girl (she had emotional issues with actual sex), and we managed to do OK by my book. We did some very creative things, and I learned a few good tricks! Our equivalent of the "missionary" position was her on her belly, and I riding against the crack of her behind (with plenty of lube) and reaching my hand around to touch her where needed. It felt very good for me (the first few times, in fact, I was afraid I had accidentally slipped in, it felt so good), and I assume that the pain issues you talk about would not be an issue. I know that handjobs were mentioned earlier--why don't you think you would be good? Doesn't it sound like fun to try? Or does your guy poo-poo anything but penis-vagina sex?

4. Trying to change your sex drive is like trying to change your favorite ice cream flavor. I guess it might be possible, but more than likely, the best you can do is fool yourself. You have some emotional issues you say, but consider the possibility that you are innately a low-sex-drive type of person. You love the guy and are willing to give him what you can--great. But if it means raw chafing of your insides, that sounds like a terrible deal, particularly when there are ways to satisfy him that don't cause you pain (assuming, of course, he's an open-minded guy willing to take sex in other forms than penis-in-vagina).

A "bit late" would be maybe several weeks. You missed this one by over a year.

carno: Meiosis is a figure of speech that intentionally understates something or implies that it is less in significance or size than it really is. It is a form of litotes, but litotes often uses understatement to amplify the importance of something, while meiosis aims to make its subject appear smaller. For example, a lawyer defending a schoolboy who has set fire to his school might call the act of arson a "prank."

It is derived from the Greek mei-o-o (“to make smaller”, "to diminish").

Thought you might like to know.

It won't be too long now:

http://www.pt141.com/pt141-info.html

Of course its for "SD" but once its on the market anyone will be able to use it if they try hard enough. I read a story about it last week and appears to work... let me see if I can find it.

ahhh. here it is. this is the good read. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magaz...759109,00.html

Good luck.

First off it shouldn't be painful enough that you can't enjoy it. I would suggest seeing a doctor to see if they can provide any help here what so ever. Other than that I think it's something you two need to work out. If you're both in love it will be something that you will work out.

Well, since this has been dug up, I will respond:

nwlinkvd has stopped pressuring me for sex, due to his falling libido (he constantly works now, without a break). Sex still hurts, and the gyno I discussed this with waved it off as his penis thwacking my ovaries or some explanation like that. I tried sex with one of our mutual friends (damnpoor), and his penis didn't hurt me as much. I'm guessing maybe it has to do with size- nwlinkvxd being pretty big. I dunno...

Soory to hear it hurts, but you have taken the scientific method (change one variable and repeat the experiment) to it's totally logical conclusion.

You are a special woman, and I wish you good luck. :icare:

Well, you can take some solace in the fact that this is a temporary situation. In another 10~15 years, you will be hitting your sexual peak about the time he is discovering he has a favorite chair.

Seriously though, the fact that you are having problems does NOT mean you have a bad relationship or that there is something wrong with either of you. What defines a good relationship is how you deal with those issues. No matter what issues you guys are going through, the best advice is to treat each other with respect, kindness, and compassion. When you discuss the problem, don't accuse or say things like "You never ..., You always..., etc". Seperate the actions from the person and use "I" statements like "I feel .... when we....". If you are still in college and have a chance, take some classes in Interpersonal communication, or simply read some of the books on how to survive conflict.

Learning how to work through tough issues in a way that strengthens your relationship instead of tearing it apart is the best skill you can learn. It will get you through this "crisis" and all the rest of the ones that are coming.

It took me 12 years and a divorce to finally realize how important that is and I am determined not to let that happen again with my 2nd wife.

Good Luck!

There is a toy I heard about (haven't tried myself) that is like a doughnut that sits at the base of the penis to prevent it from going all the way in. It might be worth a try if Link is just plain too big for you.

This is more than obvious from reading some of your other posts in here. You are beating the holy hell out of yourself for a problem that you are not causing. It's not like you woke up one morning and said "Hey! I think I want sex to be painful and unpleasant from now on!"

It's a problem, yes, and it's a problem with your body, yes, but it is not your fault any more than having a wart would be your fault. Sometimes these things just happen, and while I know it's hard, you have to come to terms with the fact that sometimes your body doesn't do what your mind wants it to do, and that's simply not your fault.

I'm not saying you don't need to try to solve the problem - you do - but part of that solution is to stop mentally abusing yourself over it.

Your self esteem issues are obviously not something that can be completely worked through by talking to people on a message board - it's a good thing you're going to a psychologist - but I do have a couple of observations.

First off nwlinkvxd needs to be more understanding. If I was causing my wife pain every time we had sex, I'd uh. . .stop having sex with her until we figured out why. I'm not willing to hurt my lady in order to have sex.

Most of the pain you mention seems to be a simple result of size and your inability to accomodate it. I'd be willing to bet at least half of that is because you've wrapped yourselves into a viscious cycle - namely "oh shit this is gonna hurt" does not exactly lead to relaxation and enjoyment of sex. It's going to take a long time, and probably some specialized sex therapy, to get you two out of this cycle - not only do we need to find and solve the physical problems, but we also need to address the mental issues that are caused by, and are amplifying, the physical ones. Mental issues does not mean your crazy - you're just responding logically to the situation. If sex hurt the last 100 times, it's logical to assume it's going to hurt this time - and if you assume that then you're naturally not going to be relaxed, your muscles will tense up, and that will amplify the pain.

Hope some of that rambling made sense, but the bottom line is that you must come to understand that this is not your fault and does not reflect on who you are.