shamelesscondor

Glory's Sun

ok I'm confused... what exactly is the question being posed here?

ShaniFaye

what IT are we supposed to be having at?

Im bi....does that mean I have a disorder?

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shamelesscondor

well, ideal with a very diverse crowd and yet these two groups don't really get along. It seems that the existence of one comes at the COST of the other.

I am aware that many GLBT don't want to be spiritually FIXED into hetereosexuality and yet both sides think the other side is WRONG.

Twizted

I think what Shamelesscondor is asking is, people who aren't "Gay" or "Lesbian" however have same sex attraction, are sometimes referred to as "Strugglers".

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/selfreinvention.html has some insight.

Essentially this creates 2 groups of homosexuals, the GLBT and the Strugglers.

At least, that's what little understanding I have of the situation. Perhaps someone more educated on the situation can shed a little more light.

Personally... I could care less if someone is bi, gay, struggling, straight

As long as its consenting adult humans, and I don't have to look at it, have at it. It's your gig.

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usrbinboy

I'm confused about this thread

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MSD

What's the problem here? Are GLBT people condescending toward them because they're "not as gay" or something? People who demand equality should treat others equally.

Lockjaw

What's GLBT?

I think I've got the G the L and the B...but what's the T?

siryn

Look kids, its as simple as this. Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered (sometimes also included are Queer and Intersexual, check http://students.berkeley.edu/sas/geneq/lgdefs.htm for definitions) people consider their sexuality to be a part of themself - to be natural, self affirming, and in absolutely no way "wrong."

Some Christians, Psychologists, etc. believe that homosexuality is actually a psychological pathology and a genetic defect. In fact, people who subscribe to these theories and find themselves to be attracted to people of the same sex describe themselves as suffering from an "affliction" which they consider themselves able to be "cured" of. This is what shamelesscondor is refering to.

Now discuss.

ibis

I totally agree, in fact, sometimes I like to look at it
Transgender.

Glory's Sun

ok so people created another label for people to "adhere" to? This is ludacris. It shouldn't matter and dosen't matter if someone is gay, bi, TG, straight or "struggling" Lot's of people have some sort of attraction towards the same sex. Some make it evident others don't. Some react to it and some don't. I wouldn't call them struggling I'd call them passive if anything. I don't see why people would think of it as a disease either.. that's plain crazy. I consider myself to be hetero"flexible" plain and simple. Does that mean I am struggling? NO it means I am who I am and if someone wants to put a different label on it then to me that shows some ignorance. If a gay man puts me into the realm of strugglers because I'm "not as gay" he would be correct but he should realize the person he's putting in the struggling group is one of the most tolerant he'll find. So what am I trying to say? I think it's sad that there are two groups ..

CityOfAngels

MOVE! MOVE OUT DA WAY!

Sorry, just had to do it. Impulses.

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Glory's Sun

hahaha I was expecting that eventually!

doncalypso

I take it you meant to say ludicrous (if that's how it's spelled)...

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Halx

I think more background on this needs to be provided. The original poster has offered no information for people who are not aware of why 'strugglers' and called such. We are being called upon to discuss something that nobody has any clue that's going on.

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Twizted

LOL!!!! I thought the same thing when I read the post.

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Mumbles

Hi everyone,

just a couple of my thoughts on this subject. First thing is that there were a group of homosexuals a while back that tried to prove homosexuality was genetic. They did this, presumably, so that the establishment of homosexual marriages would be made legal nationwide. What their study showed was that there were a couple links between homosexuals. One had to do with an undersized gland located in the brain, and the other involved a missing...forgive my inspecificity...thing within a homosexual's chromozomes. Now, these studies were later revealed to be totally innaccurate and not necessarily true as I understand it. So, homosexuality being attributed to an underdeveloped gland or a missing, "thing", could be called a "disease" or "disorder" or "defect."

Second thing... It is typical for members of any species to have urges, contrary to procreation, when they have some otherwise unidentifiable condition. I think homosexuals, as well as heterosexuals that have no children and/or no desire to have children, may be suffering from some kind of ailment. Something potentially unidentifiable. Something that is making them not want to pair up in the appropriate fashion for procreation. So, here's another linking that could make you think it was a "disease" or "disorder" or what have you.

umm, forgive me everyone, this probably belongs on some other thread, but I wanted to respond to that and I got a little wordy. Just so no one gets the wrong idea... I'm not a hater! I'm just looking at it in a way I don't see many people look at it. I am persuadeable, so if you think I'm wrong, change my mind.

Oh, and as to the actual thread topic :-). These being reasons to think of it as a disease or disorder, or what have you means that its quite allright for people to consider themselves or others as Struggling. Does is mean they're actually struggling? Not necessarily. The problem isn't that people are labelling others, the problem is that they're trying to CHANGE others. You'd think we, as a people, would have figured out by now that people don't change through labelling and harsh criticism. Only through calm debate......and occasional revolution.

livingfossil

Your language here is confused and unclear. Homosexuality is not linked to a missing gland or thing, so it is <i>not</i> a disorder? Yet you claim it <i>is</i> a disorder? What?

Uhm, I think you're going to have to qualify this.

This is based on your tendetious assumption that "healthy" and "normal" people ought be fucking up a storm to pass on their genes. I'd say this is an example of you using evolutionary theory to justify your own preconceptions of what is "appropriate."

Perhaps that "unidentifiable" something is a demon? It's consuming queers' everlasting souls? I don't understand the motivation of this line of thought: de-normalizing homosexual activity achieves what? Oh! Oh! perhaps the furtherment of the species! I don't buy that. What's the threat? Is this 'disease' catching? Will the 'disorder' spread? Do you fear immasculation? Does labeling someone/thing abnormal make you more normal?


I try.

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adam

I think people waste a lot of energy on labels, to be honest.

Mumbles

ok livingfossil,

Forgive my first post, I didn't mean to be unclear. I'm not trying to denormalize homosexual behavior. I am using evolutionary theory to justify what I believe to be "right" and/or "normal."

I was trying to give a reason why some people consider homosexuality a disease or disorder. I have come to understand that there were a couple investigations into the genetic origins of homosexuality. These "studies" which I talked about before attributed homosexual behavior to an undersized gland and/or a missing component of the y chromosome. Assuming that to be true would allow someone to say Homosexuality is a "disease" or "disorder."

However, it was later shown that these studies were faulty for several reasons. So, I don't believe that these results are true, nor should anyone. It's just that some people do, thus the justification for calling it a disease or disorder.

Now, my little theory is one that I will happily admit is based on pretty vague scientific theories that aren't very well investigated, too my knowledge. This isn't exactly what I think, just something I think about. There have been studies that show individuals, I think in a rat population, that had certain genetic disorders; these creatures either refused to procreate, or other members of their species refused to procreate with them. So, I was simply considering that perhaps homosexuals have something that makes them incapable of producing healthy offspring, so they look for love in a different place. *shrug* It's not how I truly feel, it's just something I'm interested in learning more about. :-) I wasn't trying to offend anyone, sorry if I did. I hope I made myself a little more clear. I do understand that the whole rat thing is really thin, which is why I don't adhere to it as fact...as of yet.

shamelesscondor

sorry I haven't logged on in a while.

ssad = same-sex-attraction-disorder

strugglers are those (mostly men) who believe that spirituality will cure them of their disorder so that they can be heterosexuals, marry, and have families and community while "curing " themselves of their homosexual tendencies.

The funny thing is that many of them feel they merit the same minority status as the gay community in spite of the fact that their beliefs stand in stark contrast to the gay community.

It feels like a quagmire. Trying to find a place where one does not exist at the cost of the other is the dilemma. Coexistence in community is where I am stuck.

thanks every body!