Locobot

So what's keeping white women from being "exoticized" (whatever that means) by men of other races? I think this well-known feminist is displaying her bigotry towards white males and little else.

Sorry, but this is completely racism whether you want to acknowledge it or not. This is the basic justification for every manifestation of racism anywhere in society. Somehow in your mind if someone uses this idea to justify seperate drinking fountains based on skin color it's racist, but when it's used to disallow boys and girls of different colors from kissing then it's not racist?

I've had a fair amount of experience with this topic myself. In high school I dated an east indian girl and it basically never went anywhere because she was so deathly afraid of her parents finding out. After we stopped seeing eachother we were both on the cross country team and my parents would talk to hers if they saw them at a race. She asked me to tell my parents not to talk to hers, to which I naturally said "no." She quit the team soon after.

JumpinJesus

My sister married an Hispanic man. My first marriage was to an Asian woman. My parents did not approve of either marriage. They did not attend either wedding. My father told us both that we made mistakes getting married. My daughter is of mixed race as are my nephews. My parents have not spoken to my daughter (their grand-daughter) in over 6 years. I don't know if it's because of her mixed race or if it's just because they're assholes.

5 years ago I remarried a Caucasian woman. They were not invited to that wedding.

The family I choose is far more important to me than the family I was given. They are what matters to me. While it sounds harsh, my belief is that my parents can go to hell if they have issues with who I love. I choose who I love and who I'll be with, not them. They have not been a part of my life in years due to their behavior. I'm okay with that now.

I've never been a big follower of tradition for tradition's sake, so that never really plays a part in the decisions I make. And frankly, if people feel the need to tell me who I should and shouldn't love, then I feel the need to tell them to go fuck themselves.

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hrandani

My understanding is all people with Jewish relatives or ancestors strongly identify themselves as Jews, and it's something you can never escape, regardless if you actively practice the religion or not. So in that respect it is kind of an artificial 'race' with strong bonds to fellow Jews. Although, there are racial differentiations of jews, like Azkenazi (sp?) etc

Now, people who convert to Judaism are also Jewish, and thus don't have the same rules apply, but other Jews occasionally don't consider them to be as Jewish.

This is what I've picked up growing up around a synagogue.

Jackebear

My SO is a Japanese woman (I live in Japan) and we have been living together for 6 years AND I have never met her parents. Can you believe it?? My parents came over for 2 weeks last year and had a great time with her but her parents would disown her if they found out she was seeing a "gaijin" or foreigner. It's totally bizarre and after 6 years, kind of frustrating. Oh well, that's the way it is for many of us here.

I've met a number of guys who married J-girls whose parents will have nothing to do with them now; have never seen their grandkids...nothing.

I will probably see them someday at the funeral home...isn't that a shame.

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Nirvana

I agree with locobot completely. white women are "exoticized" all the time and i hear the term humped and dumped constantly. to use that to further her argument just dissproves her point even more.

it is a form of racism. When a KKK member wants to preserve "the WASP culture", its racist. when someone else wants to "preserve the culture", its completely justified. its a big double standard.

i have dated people of other races and cultures not because i found it to be "exotic" or a thrill, but because they had very good personalities and i found them to be attractive. that was all that it took.

blade02

First off, theres a big difference between racism and prejudice. Racism is believing in the superiority of one race over another. Prejudice is predicting how people will act based on their appearance or other information you've gathered. They can both support each other but are completely different things.

If you see a guy in a suit riding a bike, you might guess he's Mormon. Thats prejudice, because you've based an opinion of him on his appearance or actions. If you say one race is automatically better than yours, because the other race its always doing something. You are using prejudice to justify your racism.

I dont think its automatically rascist for parents to want children to date within the same culture/race/religion, because they want their children to continue their values. But it is Prejudice of them to assume that someone from another culture/race/religion will automatically have different values.

Nirvana

well in my previous post when i said "preserve the culture", i meant that you do not marry anyone outside of the ethnicity. i just dont understand how if some white guy were to say " i dont want you to marry anyone of color" is any different if any other ethnic group were to say the same thing.

Carno

It's no different. Just like it's still racism when black people hate white people.

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Gilda

I'm married to a Hawaiian woman of Japanese descent, and her parents have never had the slightest problem with my being white, perhaps because once you accept that your daughter is a lesbian, the race thing is a small hurdle.

My parents, if they could get past the lesbian thing, would have objected to my dating an Asian guy, but would have less objection to my brother dating an Asian girl. I'm not sure why, except maybe there's a perception that the male is a stronger influence in transmission of the culture than the female, as evidenced by the tradition of the female taking the male's name.

Gilda

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Janey

totally have to disagree with you. It is absolutely not racism. There no apartheid happening. It is traditionalism. comfort level. Note that I am not this way, the old folks are.

Carno

That is totally racism. Examine why they want their offspring to stay within their own race and you should understand how it is racism.

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Nirvana

Janey please explain to me your feelings regarding this.

If a white guy and an Asian girl went out and the family of the white guy said that they don't want him dating the Asian girl beause she is Asian and they want to "preserve their culture", is that not racist?

now lets say that the tables were turned and the Asian girls family said that they don't want her to date the white guy because he is white and they want to "preserve their culture", is that not racist as well?

Sweetpea

well, i am euro-american descent, my husband is half Mexican-american.

my parents never took issue with my husband's race and nor his family with me. i'm not sure, i suppose in some cultures, the idea of skin color plays a part in traditional values? that seems silly to me, but i suppose it might be cultural. however, i've not experienced any issues like that in my own marriage.

sweetpea

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Janey

racism is a belief that actual race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particula race is superior than others.

What I am describing is an inability to be comfortable with difference.

Nirvana

Janey can you please respond directly to my two scenarios.

Sharon

While I strongly believe that prejudice and racism are both wrong, I guess it's important to realise that those mindsets are very deep-rooted, and set over many years of conditioning by people of tremendous influence.

I have a couple of phobias which I simply cannot escape - and they are based on fears my mother had. Rationally I know they make no sense, and the things I fear are of no substantial threat to me, but they are so deep rooted in my psyche that I doubt I will ever get over them. As a child, I trusted my parents so much that I instinctively took on their worldviews almost without questioning them.

My parents also have views on people from certain religions, and constant exposure to their comments meant that I had a big surprise when I finally met people who happened to be from those backgrounds, and found that they were really lovely people. I had to seriously question many of the prejudices in me, and even now I still have to put conscious effort into it, as my instant mental reaction isn't at all right.

It's very hard to understand the value systems in cultures other than the very specific one we were brought up in. My Chinese and Asian friends have often related stories to me about family and social pressure (not just parents on them, but on other relatives on their parents, but whole villages on those relatives, etc) which leave me shaking my head in disbelief, but to the people in those situations it is the way it is. The ones who really struggle are my friends (who are under the influence of two very different cultures, those of their family and the Western culture of their friends, colleagues etc), and probably their families, who can't persuade their children to cooperate with them in appeasing the relatives who will otherwise ascribe them much dishonour and shame.

Nirvana

hey thanks for responding. janey never responded to my question which is a shame, because i would have really liked to have heard what she had to say.

Toaster126

Someday, I think everyone is going to have to accept that we are all racist, classist, and sexist... we as human beings like to classify things as we and them, or us and others. It's how we were built - I think there is a limit to what we can condition to be accepting.

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abaya

I would agree with you, as an anthropologist... people are the same everywhere. We all like to divide our worlds into the known and unknown, the safe and the dangerous... no matter what color our skin, what class, or what gender we are. Funny, how our human inability to see universals, is one of our few universals as a species.

But anyway, I don't know if there is a limit on what we can condition to be accepting... I mean, I hope that is the major contribution of my field to popular thought; that is, cultural relativism. Not to expect that people will give up being racist, etc... but that we can become just a little less so, after surrendering some of our long-held knowns, to better understand the unknown Other.

But maybe I am just idealistic. Still, I think it can be overcome, at least to some degree.

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match000

in 2000 years america will be a mixed country. altho, by then the world will have been unified into 3-4 regions, like in 1984. in 3000 years colonies will have been set up in space due to lack of space on earth, and the prejudice will not be so much what race are you (cause perhaps 20-40% of people will be mixed) but if you are a native-earthling or a spaceling.

The_Jazz

2000 years? How about 200? Assuming no major cultural backlashes to reverse the course of the last 120 years, there's no reason to think that more cultures won't be absorbed by the melting pot. I read somewhere where the majority of Americans can now their ancestry back to at least two separate ethnic groups. Personally, I've got German, Irish, English, Scot, Cherokee, Italian and Bohemian that I know of, and 500 years ago, there wasn't that much mixing between those groups.

As far as the rest of your post, well, maybe you're right and maybe we'll have evolved into a much stupider version, more environmental friendly version of humanity when the ice caps melt and society breaks down. I think either version has an equal chance of success at this point, although I'd much prefer yours than mine.

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Toaster126

Looking back on this, I didn't mean to imply that trying to remain open-minded and exposing ourselves to new information and experiences wasn't a good thing. It's a great thing to strive for. I just think we all fall short. It's just a matter of if you are honest with yourself or if you are a hypocrite.

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match000

Although some races do mix frequently, some do not. This is not a personal opinion or assertion, only an observation. I added 2000 b/c I think that it will take some time for ALL of htem to mix equally.

Yeah, yours either sounds like Mad Max or Cyberpunk-esque like Blade Runner, Matrix, Johnny Mmemnomic or Neuromancer. I wouldn't like those...