analog

A fellow TFP'er had the following topic on their mind, and wished that I post this here to preserve their anonymity:

What are some good rules to look over for a friends with benefits situation? A check-off list for example… like… Biting on ear: ok. Biting on nipples: not ok. Cutting is not ok. No guests unless agreed upon before hand. No anal play except for on Tuesday. You get the idea.

What are the keys to having a good relationship with a friend that you also fuck?

MrFriendly

I've seen a couple of friends go down this path. Unfortunately I can't report that it has ever worked out well.

Honestly, I think bedroom protocol will be the least of their worries.

Both friends need to make if very clear to one another how they intend to maintain a sexual relationship and stay friends. A lot of balls to bones honesty and communication is the only way I can see that working.

I dunno, it's not something I think I could manage properly, but luckily that's just me hehe.

I don't see any reason why it can't work, but yeah, just from what I've seen, if you both don't make your intentions very clear, shit's gonna happen.

__________________
You are not a slave

Frosstbyte

I was going to post, and then I read MrFriendly's post and I don't have a whole lot to add. Every benefits relationship I've ever seen or heard about or been a part of has ended with one or the other getting more attached than the other and then everything goes to shit.

That disclaimer aside, I think friends with benefits hook ups are best kept to pretty standard, "We're both having fun and getting our rocks off" sex. Bondage/pain kinds of things require a level of trust and intimacy that begs to disturb the delicate fw/b balance. I've had one or two friends follow the hooker rule of no kissing, though I don't really know how meaningful that is. The arrangement is essentially to have consistent one night stands with someone you trust instead of "random douche from bar." Do it and have fun, certainly, but I think going for any fetishistic play is a bad call.

MrFriendly

The only time I have ever seen this work is between two friends who lived in different cities. When either was in town they'd catch up as friends over coffees and then have a night of pure deborcherous sex any night they weren't busy catching up with mates and the like.

So maybe the lesson there is don't hook up to much, and do stuff together as friends like you'd normally do without the expectation of sex. Otherwise, when really thing about, you've both demoted yourselves to fuck buddies with a history and present hang ups. And that just ain't gonna work.

__________________
You are not a slave

Toaster126

This can definitely work if everyone is honest and upfront about their intentions. The problem comes in when someone lies about them, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

I personally don't have any sex "rules", but if I did I would probably apply them to friends with benefits in the same way I would apply them to a girlfriend.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Glory's Sun

The most important rule.. if any emotion other than sex comes into play.. cut the string immediately.

Deltona Couple

I have had SEVERAL friends with benefits situations. I always say that pretty much everything is game in the bedroom, but no emotions can get involved. Remember that this is a "sex only" type situation. I have never had any trouble with them, and every one has ended simply because one or the other of us has entered into a relationship, so we both always agree that the FWB is terminated at that point.

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

Hyacinthe

I've done the friends with benefits things alot over the past few years - never had a problem with it.

The reason most people have problems with it is because emotions can become involved - if either of you starts feeling a romantic attachment to the other end it immediately. You have to be completely honest with eachother about this to or you / your friend will end up feeling led on and hurt because of the physical intimacy not corresponding with the emotional intimacy.

As for bedroom etiquette well that depends on you and the other person. For me nothing was really out of bounds that wouldn't have also been out of bounds if I had been in a romantic relationship with the guy in question. I was however aware of the fact that I was likely not the only girl he was sleeping with during this period of time and so I went to a certain amount of effort not to leave any marks until reassured it was ok. Most of this part is about communication - check before you leave a love bite just incase, same for scratching, biting etc etc. I had a friend go to pick up the other month and got turned down numerous times because he had a large love bite on his neck - he was not impressed since it had been from a one night stand and yet with the marking every girl he tried to pick up assumed he was cheating.

I guess for me it's kindof like what Frosstbyte described, a series of one night stands with someone I feel a certain degree of affection for even if I would never want a serious relationship with him. If you start feeling more then that stop sleeping with the other person immediately.

The one rule that you maybe should have is either of you can end things, no begging, no questions asked, no excuses just a "yeah I don't think we should do this anymore" and that's it it's over.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

MrFriendly

This is the problem though, isn't it?

I don't know how everyone else gets along with their friends who are of the opposite sex. But the female friends I have a are pretty damn close to me. I couldn't just walk away and just say "This ain't workin for me, cya".

To me, that's walking away from the friendship as well, and being the glutton for emotional punishment that I am, I just can't do that.

Eh, I can be uptight about this kind of thing, and I'm happy to admit that, but when it comes to a mixing with the opposite sex, it's either friends, lovers, or just plain and simple fuck buddies who don't know the first thing about eachother except what works for us under the covers.

But then again, not everyone is as balls to wall bat shit insane as I am

__________________
You are not a slave

Hyacinthe

I didn't mean walk away from the friendship just stop sleeping with the person.

With school and work I don't have time or to be honest the emotional desire for a relationship at the moment. I miss sex though and I have a bit of a thing about one night stands (tried once - didn't go well, put me off for life) so for me the whole friends with benefits thing works well.

I know people that view it the same as you do though, guess I just look at certain of my friends a bit differently.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

MrFriendly

Eh, I can certainly see it from you side of the fence.

I just know there's no way I personally could handle it emotionally. I'm a Cancer though, that should spell out everything

__________________
You are not a slave

SecretMethod70

quoted for truth

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

snowy

Yep...been there, done that. Boundaries are key, and keeping them clear to the other person is a must.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ShaniFaye

Im a cancer and I handled it just fine lol I am VERY capable of shutting someone out and not thinking twice about it

My rules

Show up when you said you were going to or call to excuse yourself...first time you dont its over

I dont want to "chat" about your life, fuck me and shut the door behind you when you leave

IF we were to meet for food before hand, you pay for your own

You cannot "sleep over"

mine were pretty simple and worked quit well...only problem I ever had was one that expected me to drop everything when he called....he didnt last long

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Daniel_

I had a FWB thing for a few months after I booted my ex-wife, but before I was ready to do emotional attachment.

From Shanni's rules I would say they covered all the areas where I went wrong (especially on the paying for dinner and staying over ones).

We got over it, and it all worked well for about 6 months.

When I was ready for a real GF I explained it to her, thanked her, and walked away with no backward glance.

We both had a good time, and it was purely sex.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

analog

A female member PM'ed me the following to add to this discussion, wishing her name not be used:

<hr>
My response:
I have been down that road twice. One trip worked out well; the other did not.
You are smart to set ground rules. Here are our rules, and how the situations turned out.

1. We both agreed that we were not 'it' (future marriage partner) for the other. This rule definitely applied to us.

2. Discretion is a must. This is a no-kiss-and-tell situation. Why the secrecy? If you are going to date others, do you want to fall for someone who is only there because they heard about your friends-with-benefits deal?

3. Leave no marks. Because this is a no-kiss-and-tell situation.

4. We could date anyone else we chose, but we slept with nobody else.

5. If either of us decided to get emotionally serious with someone else, or decided to sleep with someone else, the deal was off.

The first situation was with a long term ex-boyfriend that I was still friends with. We already knew each other emotionally as well as physically from our two years as a serious couple. After both ending recent long term relationships with others, it was nice to have a shoulder and more. But we forgot to set definite ground rules. It wasn't long before a mutual friend let me know that this was no longer a no-kiss-and-tell situation. Our affair ended, as did our friendship.

The second situation was with a friend. We had mutual respect and trust, and we actually did like each other's company non-sexually as well. But we also knew that we were not compatible for the long haul. We were headed in different directions in life. I can't remember why I agreed to go from friends to friends/lovers, but we did. We agreed to call it off if one of us became emotionally or physically serious with another. We both hoped/expected this to happen eventually. We ended the affair amicably when it did, but remained friends.
<hr>

ironman

Didn't Seinfeld prove this impossible?

__________________
If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

Plan9

Is Seinfeld a source of good relationship advice?

I didn't even think he was a good human being.

...

(thinks about using this space to advertise for FWBs)

(thinks it is probably a bad idea)

(hangs head in shame)

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ngdawg

#1 rule: don't be attracted to each other.
To the female TFPer's list: #4 I'd disagree with. The whole thing about FWBs is they're there to get your rocks off simultaneously because you both want/need a bootycall. If someone, on the other hand, rocks your world, then FWB gets knocked down to the B list. Exclusivity shouldn't have much to do with FWB's at all.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

analog

For me personally, I once dated a girl for about 8 months... and then we were exclusive fuck buddies for a year after that.

It was pretty much a lot like when we were dating, except without the title or strings attached. There was still some emotion involved from time to time.

I wouldn't recommend ever getting into a situation like that, unless you pretty much hate each other and are just mutually agreed upon using each other for sex. We didn't hate each other... she still loved me and I had made a huge mistake in breaking up with her... then made an even bigger one by never getting back with her. Of course, I didn't realize any of this until well after she'd finally met some other guy and we broke off our exclusivity pact so she could date him.

She married him like 2 months later. That's when I realized what I'd done.... that was not a happy time for me. lol

Our "rules":

Sexual exclusivity... you could see someone if you wanted, but absolutely nothing beyond a kiss on the lips (the ones on your mouth, I once specified for comedic effect). Not even groping. The major reason for this is we were both very straight-forward and honest people, and neither of us wanted to think about someone else with their hands on the other while we were being fuck buddies. I think the depth of this rule as we used it would only work for some people, and is mostly because we'd dated and were still very close, but knew we didn't work as a couple (this turned out to be my mistake, but that's how we learn in life).

The minute you wanted to end the situation, like to get it on with a newfound interest, you make a call and that's that. No discussion or anything- and even more importantly, no details. Neither one of us wanted to know anything about what the other might leave for, because then judgments could come into play.

Plan9

I'd want to kiss my fuck buddy, myself.

Kissing is part of the hotness.

The hotness is the reason.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ngdawg

That's why I wouldn't call it being Fuck Buddies-it was an open relationship, more or less with you two, understanding that the only 'commitment' was sexual. IF you can't bear to think of another person's hands or lips being on them, you've got an attachment. When you can 'not care' about that, and still get it on once in a while, then you have reached true FuckBuddism.
A 'fuck buddy', on the other hand, is a convenience until something better comes along, knowing you 'could' still be platonic friends.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Plan9

Lemme see if I get this philosophy straight:

So... I want to have a fuck buddy that is A) someone I can't stand to be around when my pants are on and B) can have awesome toe-curling sex with every time...

Gotcha.

Okay, so I should call my exwife?

...

Pfft.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

ngdawg

No, no, no...if you can't stand them, the sex is gonna suck.
If you're attracted to them, complications of possibly becoming a couple come about.
Key word is 'buddy'.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Hyacinthe

See I don't view it quite the same as you guys I really do see it as a 'FRIENDS with benefits'

If all I wanted was a fuck I would go get a one night stand. But I also enjoy being able to cuddle with the guy / girl afterwards and talk about various things, never had a fwb situation where I knew I wasn't welcome to stay the night for a repeat in the morning if I wanted to. I still go out with them and the rest of my friends, we'd grab dinner watch a movie etc etc really interact exactly like we did before and the majority of our mutual friends knew what was going on. However that may be my fault, he shares an apartment with a mutual friend who has a problem keeping secrets and well when there's a shared wall you kinda know when the other has a girl there either from bed heads or other noises.

Not sure about the no attraction thing either - I mean why sleep with someone you're not attracted to doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you mean someone you feel you might eventually want to have a relationship with? someone you're attracted to physically but not emotionally / mentally? I tend to pick friends who I am close to but am completely certain that I would never want to date / share my life with.

I do agree about the no expectations things, you should never expect to sleep with them unless you've established beforehand that it's going to happen. It's just a nice bonus to the friendship that you have a friend who's willing to help you and themself get their rocks off.

my fwb and myself have always ended on good terms though, nothing really changes about the relationship from before to during to after.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

MrFriendly

I agree, and I think the most important thing both parties should be looking to preserve is the friendship. If having sex is in any way affecting how that friendship works or is starting to affect other friendships around you, then it's probably a wise idea to stop before things start getting complicated.

__________________
You are not a slave

Plan9

I have a hard time sticking my wang in something and not getting attached to it if I talk to it afterwards.

I'm such a sentimental cuddlemonkey.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pig

in addition to anything posted above, from which rules you may select as you will o nefarious anonymous rule seeker, i will say that for me the fundamental rule i've found is not to try to harden yourself in the context of the fuck-buddy relationship. based on experience and observation, the chief mistake people make is that they try to resign themselves to a robotic sexual experience in order to keep all emotions and thoughts strictly from becoming attached.

therefore, emotions naturally become attached, but they must be suppressed, repressed, and unaddressed. they are cajoled, steamrolled, and left in a blindfold.

eventually, you look at the other person and say 'fuck you! you knew i liked hot butter on my breakfast toast. you did brag! you did boast!"

they were in the process of getting out of their car to get you a lime-ola granola chocolate slurpee at sonic. and it all seems to have come from out of no where.

that is the road to all kinds of badness. from the viewpoint as seeing the other person as a good decent person, about whom you can care but of whom you are not possessive, i think it is possible to have a happy fucking only relationship, concurrent with whatever friendship you have. if you can imagine them telling you that they've fallen in love with someone else and you being happy for them, then i think you're in the clear. when you can no longer say that, then it's time to reevaluate.

and always leave little mints on each other's pillow. it keeps things in perspective.

imagine them as a friend about whom you don't get upset when they do idiosyncratic shit like not call you on a random wednesday night to see how your day went, or when they decide they want to watch the '87 master's final on the oxygen channel, or when they don't have time to reassure you overly much about your big meeting at work the next morning. hang out with them and have a few drinks. then fuck the everloving shit out of them, and go back to the hanging out part. enjoy the ride.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

analog

I meant only in the context of being fuck buddies with an ex... just so that you aren't having sex with someone with whom you're still attached to, like I was.

Toaster126

I think you all are going about this all wrong. You don't "have to" harden your heart against a fuck-buddy or hide it. I've had several fuck-buddy situations, and I've had friendships with all of them during that time.

You can be actual friends with them and everything can work. The only downside I've seen from that is sometimes others with get confused on whether you are dating or not, because people generally assume that if you are having sex with someone, you are involved romantically with them or that you aren't looking for a different romantic relationship.

That would be eliminated by being a stealthy ninja about the whole arrangement, I guess.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

World's King

I've had two.

One was an ex that would let me stay at her house when I was too drunk to drive home. Although the odd thing is that my house was no further away from the bars then hers was. Oh well. Great sex. She even cheated on a few boyfriends with me. Although I didn't know that at the time. It fell apart because she grew up and realized she was a whore and needed to get her life back together. And yes, I knew she was a whore. And I took full advantage of that.


The second was a random girl I met on MySpace. She was 17 at the time and I had a girlfriend. When all that was out of the way. I went to her house and bent her over the back of her couch and fucked the shit outta her. We didn't get back together for two years. Then all of a sudden. She's a nice girl. Last time we got together she asked me to just show up, not say anything, tie her hands behind her back, force her to her knees, fuck her face, drink the martini she left on the counter for me, then leave. It was amazing.



I don't really have rules. Mainly cause at the time I wasn't actually looking for a FWB. It just kind of happened. And I've found out later that both girls actually really liked me and wanted to date me. And I was just being and asshole and treatin' 'em like whores. And I'm okay with that.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

match000

I bet alot of girls use sex without the pressure of a relationship, hoping to get the guy hooked enough that he wants to be with them exlucsively.

To each their own, I guess.

Plan9

Wow... reading what World's King and you said makes me kinda wonder if my life has any value anymore.

Awesome feeling.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

MrFriendly

Cromp,

They live their life their way, we live our life ours.

I don't agree with it, but who am I to judge?

__________________
You are not a slave

Hyacinthe

Got to say as a girl that has had sex buddies in the past I find that quite an offensive comment. Believe it or not the majority of girls enjoy sex so is it so unbelieveable that we might enjoy it as much as guys and want to have sex without all the trouble of a relationship?

I know some girls do use sex that way but I have met guys that do it as well.

Making a comment like that is about as factual and substantiated as me saying that because some guys are only interested in what's between a womans legs rather then between her ears all guys are like that.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

Deltona Couple

You could always use THIS as a FWB contract!

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

pig

you mean there's something between a woman's ears? when the fuck did this happen?

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

cadre

I've noticed that in the relationships where the friends with benefits thing just kind of happens there's usually someone who has feelings for the other person which is why it starts. But with the ones where you actually sit down and set rules ahead of time, things go wrong less often.

As far as my rules go,
-Do not kiss and tell
-Only leave marks in places that aren't seen often
-If he or I sleep with someone else we have to be told
-Protection always!

Rules are relative to each person involved which is why discussing things before hand is so important.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

BigBaldRon

I used to know a girl who I couldnt stand. If my penis wasnt inside of her in one way or another, I didnt want to be in the same room as her. BUT, the sex was incredible, and afterwards, we both just thanked the other and left. It was a great situation!

Plan9

Oh, I'd suggest probably around the same time that the first man noticed that the first woman actually had something above her tits (primary focal point).

(goes back to staring at tits)

Aaah, better.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."