Jason762

I'm curious, how buff is too buff? I'm into the bodybuilding stuff, so I've always got books and mags lying about. My mom saw my recent edition of Muscle and Fitness featuring this guy:



Of course, she was grossed out (as usual) and voiced her opinion. "That's so ugly! It looks like he boobs! Look at it! Doesn't it?!"

My response was, "Really? Cause that's how I want to look. He's the guy I idolize."

"Ungh" followed by an incredibly grossed out look.

Now I've noted my mom's opinions about bodybuilders in their various stages of contest preparation, from their very lean competition weight to their off season weight.

And I've got a theory:

It's not the SIZE of the guy (unless it's at the extreme, like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler) but the percentage of body fat he has (i.e. how lean he is).

Think about it... this guy is (probably) about 10 pounds heavier than a Men's Health fitness model, but a good 3 to 5 % leaner.

So you see more muscles, striations, and separation.

OK, OK so what am I trying to say? Well, I'm wondering if you take that same guy, put on about 10 or 15 pounds of fat (just until he's about cover model leanness) would he be more appealing?

Lady Sage

Ew ew ew ew ew... with a body that hard whats the point in trying to cuddle? I may as well lay in bed with a pile of bricks. Lean muscle mass is awesome like say someone fresh out of boot camp. Thats sexy... then again there is something to be said for a guy thats got a lil flab... nice and cuddly on those cold lonely nights.

ngdawg

That's gross. Just paint him red and he'd look like a walking mass of muscle. EW!!!

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SugahBritches

I think you need to ASK about where we are in life..............in other words.........our AGE! LMAO! I'm sorry. I agree with Mom...........maybe because I am a mom. **shrugs**

Jason, I don't see the attractiveness. But, please don't go by what only Lady Sage, ngdawg, and I have posted. I find that as the years go on, that everyone has different opinions/likes/dislikes. Not only is it because of our past likes, but because those "past likes" seem to stay with us.

For instance, most men my age still like the Rachel Welch look. And our fathers liked the voluminous look..........what they called the "Bombshell". Now I find that most young men seem to like the size 4 look (on women).

So, it must change for the women and how they look at men. You have to remember, it's all about "image" and what society has made it. Or how fashion has changed it.

Women like hardness. We go for hardness because............well............we are soft. Heh. But, we do want to feel like we are hugging something real and with a tad bit of softness. I'm getting off track!

I responded because you compared it to your Mom's taste. Which says alot on what you think of her opinion. But her opinion should apply to "todays" standards.

How do you FEEL about being buff? Do you really like the idea? GO FOR IT buddy!! As long as you aren't hurtin' yourself and you stay healthy, do what YOU want to do.

Your mother may nag, but if you feel good about yourself and are healthy ....I say do it right, GO FOR IT!

Apache

I'm really really into muscles and all that, i love me a big man, LOL, but I have always found the professional bodybuilders like the one above to be to much. But if that's what you would like to look like and are trying to acheive it I say go for it. If that's what makes you happy, then that's all that matters.

cookmo

It's gross! And I absolutely hate those neck thingies. UGH!

ASU2003

Let's see a picture of him two weeks later and when he isn't flexing. There is no way he can stay that cut for a long period of time. And then he will just look like a very in shape guy.

But I will give him credit for working out enough to get to that point.

Meditrina

Personally, I do not find that attractive. But I bet there are plenty of women that do. If that is what you want, then why not do it?

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ktthequeen

Not my personal cup o' tea...I like strong men but not all muscles like that.

Sage

To me, I would not find a bodybuilder attractive because of all the work they have to do to get to that point. As I am not that into fitness, I would find it hard to be supportive and encouraging to my dude if he was into that sort of thing.

Talking about "real men" levels of buffness- Brad Pitt in fight club was icky. Edward Norton in American History X was hot, but almost too buff. Jason Statham in Crank and The Transporter was YUMMY. Keanu Reeves in The Matrix was on the leaner side of what I find attractive. My husband has the perfect body, however, because it's totally natural. Part of what I find attractive about a guy is him being natural- doing what he likes, what he's passionate about. That kind of passion is sexy, wether it results in being ripped or a bit flabby.

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qtpye4u84

YUCK!!! Buff arms are sexy but once the veins start poping out its gross but I think this guy has just enough not to be gross he could be a lil bit bigger but I think hes perfect.[img=http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7409/newbe4.th.jpg]

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Jason762

LadySage, I don’t get it why would lean muscle be attractive fresh out of boot camp but not any other time?

Nwdawg HA HA! That’s the point of bodybuilding, really. Arnold Schwarzenegger himself has given praise to bodybuilders by saying that they look like a walking anatomy chart.

SugahBritches, one thing I’ve learned about age: when it comes to looks we all have the same general preferences. Which is why we have words like “MILF”. If they’re attractive, they’re attractive. I betcha my 65 year old Grandma finds Brad Pitt just as attractive as a 13 year old tween.

I’m sorry SugahBritches but I must be in blonde mode. I compared what to my mom’s tastes?

How do I feel about being buff? Well, I am buff I’m just err.. “thick”. Ha ha, but I am dieting to get to that level of leanness.

ASU2003, he says he maintains a low level of bodyfat year round via low carb dieting. But you’re right, bodybuilders typically get down to about 3 or 4% bodyfat AND severely dehydrate themselves.

Sportswidow05, I DO want to obtain that level of bodyfat (actually about 3% more than that) but only for a short time. I’ll let myself and anyone else *wink wink* enjoy that level of bodyfat before I went on a “bulk” to gain more muscle.

Sage, those are good examples of what you like. Thanks for sharing that. However I am surprised to hear about Brad Pitt in Fight Club. Most girls RAVE about how hot he was in that movie.

For all of you who may be wondering, I am NOT using steroids, nor do I ever plan on it. I won’t lie and say I’ve never thought of it, but I am not going to use them.

So for the most part, it seems that it’s more the leanness than the size/bulk. Or am I wrong?

Lady Sage

No, no. I used fresh out of bootcamp as an example of what I meant by lean muscle mass.

I maintain, however, that a little padding is best in my book. Why have a 6 pack when you can have a pony keg?

Siege

Some of us can't control our veininess, haha. I'm not super buff but once my arms get working, a lot of veins show.

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Jason762

LadySage, ah gotcha. Damn, blonde mode is out to get me tonight! :P

Siege, yeah same here. Well, now more than ever, but even before when I was a whale with a 42" waist, the veins in my arms were always visable. Now that I'm a 34" waist they show even more.

Here are some good examples of different bodyfat percentages. Pictures 3 through 8 will hopefully confirm my point as to women disliking extreme leaness. It's the same guy as he cuts fat from 12% bodyfat to 5% bodyfat.

The last picture needs a warning, the guy's 3% bodyfat, and even I find it gross.
*WARNING WARNING EXTREME LEANESS*
3% bodyfat:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...postid=2248100

dlish

looks good at 7 and 10% body fat.

cookmo..what do u mean..those 'neck thingis'.. you mean traps?

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Ch'i

7-10% seems just about right. That guy's smile is kinda creepy. That 3% one is freaking disgusting...

Daniel_

Of those pictures, the ones less than 10% look nasty (to me).

EDIT: Erm... I'm a guy...

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Sultana

Attractiveness is more than leanness, and less quantifiable (which I'm sure you understand, I just gotta get my disclaimer out there :P). On a strictly visual level, I prefer the pictures of the guy at 12 and 10 percent. But the visual level is the tip of the iceburg for the whole "attractiveness" perception. It would get my attention for a moment, but that's not what would keep it, or be strong enough for me to go out of my way to initiate a conversation with him.

By the way, I'm in the 30-40 year range.

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SugahBritches

Heh. MILF. I think I shocked my son when I told him I knew what that meant. He was with another friend at the time (a preacher's son) and both their faces turned red. Heh.

Well, Brad Pitt ain't never done a thing for me, but to each their own! LOL!

OH! No, I meant that you seemed to value her opinion since you mentioned what she thought of it.

Leaness is good. However, I seem to be in the group that only likes the 10%. Anything under that.......well....... makes me hurt!

Since the lovely Sultana mentioned her age group, I guess I will too. I'm in the 40 - 50 group.

cookmo

Yeah, those gross me out for some reason!I can pretty much deal with everything else, but those really turn me off.

Gilda

I'm in my 20's, at least for another month. Of the various pictures there, I'd say the 10-12% fat are more attractive than the others, but I'm not really a fan of the big V shape on a guy in general. The extreme upper body, even if layered with a bit of fat, does nothing for me.

If I were to go straight, it'd be more likely for someone a bit more trim--Jimmy Smits, Pierce Brosnan, maybe Adrian Paul.

Gilda (12% body fat)

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Jason762

Hello.

Don't have the time to make a proper reply, but here's a pic of the above first bodybuilder when he isn't so lean. I must admit, he does look bigger (muscular-wise) in this picture.

Daniel_

I can see the interest/atraction of the musculature, but it's the veins that freak me out.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
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And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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snowy

Oh God...especially in the scene in the Transporter where he's half-naked and covered in motor oil...oooooh baby.

Any buffer than that and it's just yucky. To be honest, buff guys aren't that attractive to me...Jason Statham is about the only buff guy I find sexy. In real life, I like guys with a little pudge, or super-skinny sticks with no muscles, lol.

And for the record, I'm 24, and your mom is right. Even with the extra body fat, that guy above is still icky looking to me.

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Jason762

Ch’i yeah, the 3% is weird. Doesn’t help that he isn’t aesthetic. Some weird ass muscle thing going on there. Creepy smile? Yeah, but you try flexing hard and seeing how nice you can smile.

Sultana, yeah, but that attention grabbing moment is what gives a guy the edge. I know from previous experience that the girl is most likely going to give the leaner guy more of a chance than the chubby guy, even if the chubby guy has more of an all around personality.

SugahBritches, ah, gotcha. Now I comprende.

Gilda, interesting you don’t like the V-shape. It seems most females like it in conjunction to the 6 pack.

Onesnowyowl, hmmph, you just shot down my theory.

Well, thanks for your opinions. To be honest, it won’t affect my opinions or goals, but it’s interesting to see the female perspective.

I wonder what it is that makes having that physique desirable to some guys. I know for me it is not necessarily wanting to impress the opposite sex but I must admit, it DOES give me the confidence to be able to go out and attract the opposite sex.

And if you’re thinking that stereotypical thought of bodybuilders having small dongs, it doesn’t apply to me… at least not yet. What do I mean? Well as you get bigger muscles it starts to make other things appear smaller (your dong, as well as your head – the other head!).

Anyway, I’m not saying that I’m finished I am still interested in hearing theories/opinions/fact/whatever, so go ahead and say what you will!

Gilda

It's not that I don't like any kind of a V, I'm just not a fan of the exaggerated version. I think a guy looks better trim and lean than with the huge chest/tiny waist.

Maybe part of it is that I'm gay, so I tend to look at guys more from an aesthetic point of view that's nearly entirely detached from the visceral reaction most women have.

I think it's a case of taking a general concept to an extreme without understanding that the extreme version is often less desirable than the a more moderate one. For example, larger breasts are often seen as more attractive than small ones, but there is a limit at which larger continues to be more attractive. Likewise, lean is generally seen as more attractive than fat (though not universally), but there are limits to this--I'm a bit too thin for most guys' tastes.

This can apply to all sorts of things other than body image, but you get the point.

Some people accept the general rule that X is better, in this case, more muscular, broad shoulders, a trim waist, a flat stomach, and in the pursuit of that goal lose sight of reasonable limits, and the goal becomes to reach the most extreme position possible--the goal moves relative to one's current status.

That's a good point, and a subtle difference many people miss about self improvement. I excercise, dress in nice clothes, and wear a bit of (I hope) subtly applied makeup on a regular basis mostly because of how it makes me feel about myself rather than what I think others will think of it.

Gilda

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mixedsubstance

My saying: "fit not ripped"

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Lindy

To me someone that buff (the pic with the original post) is really just a caricature. What Gilda said about going to the extreme hits it right on the head. He has passed from attractive to ???-caricature is the best word that I can come up with. Unattractive and repelling. Comparable to the 105 pound girl with 38FFFFFFFFF breast implants. Unattractive and laughable. And how obsessive does someone have to be to put forth the effort required to get to that state? Does he have a life? Any friends outside of the bodybuilding cult? What does he have to give up (life is about trade-offs, right) to get to some Nirvana approaching 0% body fat? Has he made any effort to develop what lies between his ears?
Lindy

I'm seeing this approach in cars. Hey, if 16"wheels are good, 18" must be better. If 18" is good, hey, 20" must be an improvement. If 20" is hot, man, I can get 22 inchers. I saw a Mustang the other day that had wheels looked like they belonged on the Wells Fargo stagecoach.

Siege

Ok, if no one were to ever get obsessed to achieve their best, the state of the world's athletes (and many other things) would be in pretty terrible shape i'd say.

What about scholars? Many of them devote their lives to proving one formula or idea. Is that obsessive and laughable? Have THEY made any effort to develop what HOLDS their ears and head?

Just because someone puts in numerous hours a day into an activity, doesn't mean they don't know people outside of it.

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SugahBritches

I think the whole point is that JASON feels good about it. If that is what motivates him, more power to him. My only suggestion was to be healthy about it which he says he will. But, there are many times when a person will look in the mirror and think they are fat and in reality they are underweight.
And THAT is when it becomes a big problem.

I'm only thinking that one can get too addictive (at something) and then they can have problems. As long as it's a "goal" and they feel good about themselves without hurting themselves, then I say go for what makes you feel good about yourself.

CaliLivChick

I think the 7% and below pics are unattractive. I like having something to cuddle with that would be comfortable to lie my head on. When the guy in the OP isn't as lean, he's very attractive. I think it's the lack of body fat... makes it look unnatural and uncomfortable.

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Carno

Most of you like fat guys? Interesting.

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ngdawg

I'm with Cali. I found the 15% pic to be the best one.
When I met my husband, he was into Kendo, had 17" arms and really thick legs. He and I both did some weight exercising, but I was adamant about not going overboard.
I've never been attracted at all to body builders-there's the cliche that they're egotistical and the only one I ever actually knew, was very much so.
If you think that getting to 3% is going to attract the opposite sex, I think you're wrong. I also think, given what's been written in health articles, that getting body fat to such a low number is, in the long run, unhealthy. The human body needs some fat. My sister is a fat-phobic and is one of the most UNhealthy people I know, but try getting her to even use butter?
There needs to be balance-3% ain't balance, it's obsession.

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Toaster126

Studies actually bear that out. Women get turned off (on average) from retardedly buff guys, want to fuck the muscle bound ones, and want to marry the more average built ones.

Of course, studies just cover averages; lots of people love chunky guys, lots love the muscle sharks, and lots love the ones that look like sticks.

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Crack

thank god! *whew*

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little_tippler

I like my men lean but not overly built. I'm not a fan of very muscly men because I find that intimidating. Though most men could probably overpower me if they tried, I don't want one who looks like he could crush my foot if he accidentally stepped on it. I think I know why I don't like men that are overly built. Because they look like "animals". I'm sorry but something about that first pic reminds me of a butcher's chart of where the prime beef cuts are! I prefer guys a little leaner because they "seem" (totally psychological I know) a little more sensitive and less menacing. But yes I know that there's plenty of big guys out there who just want a cuddle!

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Lindy

I forwarded this thread to my Dad, a muscular and amazingly well preserved 61-year old, who said that "Some of those guys look like they must have muscles in their shit."
Lindy

Jason762

Interesting to see how stereotype has factored into this.

At the moment I am not egotistical but I'm also not at that level of leanness.

Hopefully I won't get egoistical. Will you guys promise to keep me in check if I do?

I’m serious now!

Ch'i

I'm grabbing my hand wraps as we speak...

Friends don't let friends do egotistical.