![]() |
![]() |
#1 (permalink) | ||
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Is Iran Next?
There has been continuing pressure by the Bush administration to place sanctions on Iran due to their insistance on furthering their nuclear ambitions. Whether it be for domestic energy or military use can't easily be determined. Bush and his Sec State Rice have made it clear that "all options are on the table" in shutting down Iran's nuclear interests. Does it appear to you that the Bush admin is giving serious thought to a military intervention in Iran?
Link Quote:
Link Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
#2 (permalink) | |||
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
Quote:
Really Elphaba truthout clogs your mind. Why do you insist on using one of the most biased sorces of information you can find in order to start debate? You use an opinion piece at that, they don't even have to pretend to be objective. This one was pretty funny though... Quote:
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
#4 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
|
Bush Re-elected.
Economy is up. Elections are generally considered a major success. Iraqi Security Forces control 2 major Iraqi cities and are taking over more. Yet reading TruthOut one would think we should be building bomb shelters in our backyards and our military are dying in higher casualty rate than Okinowa. |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
the current regime in Iran is too dangerous to have BB guns, let alone nuclear weapons. If Iran isn't brought in to line, we'll be seeing another communist rise in Russia, with a nuclear Iran at the head in the ME.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
"Syria also possesses one of the largest arsenals of ballistic missiles in the region, comprised primarily of SCUD-derived systems. Iran, North Korea and China have been willing providers of state-of-the-art technologies."
SCUD and state-of-the-art don't go together in any sentence. Anyway, no Iran won't be next - the US has neither the resources nor political will to wage 3 wars at once, especially not one that would be the last straw for the Muslim world.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
|
The Bush Admin already used up their trump cards when they built their "case for Iraq". They will not attack Iran.
Lame duck presidents do not go to war.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
but they will lob bombs in to the country.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
|
Wasn't it Johnson who said we weren't going into Cambodia and a few weeks later we were in?
I look for our troops to get close to the Iran border shots fired a casualty, or 2 and we'll have the excuse to go to war.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 (permalink) |
Upright
|
highthief, not having the money or military resources to wage 3 wars doesn't mean they will not. It only means they don't have what they need.
On the other hand, it's been roumoured that Bush (or whoever is playing the cards) will go after Iran and Syria for quite a while now, and nothing has proven that right. All we can do is wait and see ... Cheers, Dan
__________________
True friends stab from the front. -- Oscar Wilde. |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: in a lovely place
|
God Forbid. I lived there in the 70s. Damn beautiful people and culture. Friends who've travel there recently say the theocracy does not speak for the MAJORITY of the people. They lived oppressed lives and are forced to march in support of a government they abhor. So before anyone considers lobbing bombs as an option, they should realize the collateral damage inflicted on the innocent--which are the majority.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#13 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
|
Inerestingly, that description of Iran sounds a lot like the way many in the world view the USA... with specific reference to Administration versus the populace.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#16 (permalink) |
Adequate
Location: In my angry-dome.
|
The news I'm reading mostly consists of talks between Iran, Russia, the EU, Australia, and the UN. A small minority is Bush chiming in on things. (Not that he isn't considering jumping in if the others don't handle it.)
It'll come down to Russia and how much Mr. Nutball Ahmadinejad and the hard-liners want/need to save face and give up their "right to refine." History shows he can make mint by screwing with Western powers, so he's in a great negotiating position.
__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195 |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 (permalink) | |
seeker
Location: home
|
Quote:
Afghanistan is on the other.... So it wouldn't be three wars. It would be combining two wars into one. Syria is the only glitch in the plan at the moment. ....or are they? ![]() That new seat that everyone was ticked off about... As far as resources....how big is our debt now? what's a few more trillion dollars? More Political will is manufactured each day, than automobiles.
__________________
All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.
Last edited by alpha phi; 01-10-2006 at 10:43 AM.. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#18 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
|
Quote:
I really don't think they have the wherewithal to pull that old wool over our eyes again. That doesn't mean we don't have to be vigilant about it, it just means there are now ENOUGH people being vigilant. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#19 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#20 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
I suspect that Iran should be afraid of the current administration ruling over the US (e.i. Bushites). While I doubt an invasion a la Iraq as of 2003 is in order (espically considering how it is going as of 2006), I don't doubt that bombings a la Iraq all throughout the 90s might be. We have shown that we are not afraid to rain death on a country for over a decade from planes that the Iranians have no chance against.
Last edited by Willravel; 01-10-2006 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: clairity, thanks for the heads up, alpha |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 (permalink) | |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
|
Quote:
That said, nothing surprises me anymore. Besides, I don't think Iran is on the agenda. They are not the weak paper tiger that was Iraq. Additionally, Iran doesn't have nearly the untapped oil resources that Iraq does.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke Last edited by Charlatan; 01-10-2006 at 11:38 AM.. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#22 (permalink) | |
seeker
Location: home
|
Quote:
I think this is the most likely scenario for the forseesble future. It would take a major event to warrent a major invasion
__________________
All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#24 (permalink) | |||
seeker
Location: home
|
Quote:
The energy information adminstration uses the same Oil and Gas Journal numbers. oil natural gas Quote:
Quote:
"they are not the weak paper tiger that was Iraq" which is why the US will behave towards Iran as we did towards Iraq throughout the 90's
__________________
All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.
Last edited by alpha phi; 01-10-2006 at 12:15 PM.. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
#25 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Ustwo:
Quote:
I choose material that I find interesting and pass it along, if I think others might be interested. I have found that opinion pieces, particularly speculative ones, are a good starting point for discussion. I am pleased that many others have joined in this particular discussion, all of which have made very valid points. Ahh, there it is. The backbutton! ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#26 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
I think what is missing in this speculative article is the choice Israel might make, given the Iranian President has declared that Israel should be removed from the map. I have a concern about which direction the Israeli government will take under their next leadership. They struck Iraq's nuclear facility in the past and don't see them hesitant to do the same to Iran.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#27 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Buffalo, New York
|
THAT should be your real concern. If Israel reacts with military force to Iran's nuclear efforts, then will the US be dragged into the quagmire to keep it from puffing away into the desert wind when the missiles hit?
I really can't see the US doing a solo on Iran. It has been said already: they are not all that weak, like Iraq or Afghanistan; they have allies - STRONG allies (Russia, China) interested in the economic benefits of their relationship; the US is stretched thin with two military efforts; the US political capital to wage another such effort is practically non-existent. Nope, I really can't see it. Even if the US hoped that a quick invasion would spark a popular revolt and overturn the mullahs, I would think that they would have some lessons learned from both Afghanistan and Iraq. I would HOPE they do, at least! |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
|
Quote:
However socially... well... they're shi'ia. In their religion there is SO much emphasis on self-sacrifice they are worse than the Japanese in WWII. During the Iran/Iraq war they litterally let 12 year old kids lead their army into battle in order to clear minefields. Now politically... they are once again the paper tiger. Although recent hard lines by the West have helped out the theologists, the VAST majority want freedom, and love the US. There is litterally no middle aged people in the country. There are 25ish year olds, and then it goes straight up to the 60s. Everyone else effectively died during the 10 year war with Iran. The old will die soon, along with them the hard line anti-west, and the freedom loving young kids will inherit. One only needs to see pictures from Tehran, where under the Skull American flags are people spraypainting metallica. The reason the hard liners are pushing so hard is because they see they're at an end. And as the saying goes "one needs to fear most the lion who's at the end of his days". |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#29 (permalink) | |
Insane
|
Quote:
Iran is a politicol suicide/wildcard. Iran's ecomical benifactors step in on a war between Iran and the U.S = political disaster where the U.S lose's. As Pan said, it is possable for a war to be provoked.. But at this point there is no will of the people for the war. Bush's administration along with himself would be metaphorically pressed up against a wall with no retreat if they did this. Expecaily because I dont believe the American populace is going to support anouther war so soon, expecaily if Bush's reason for the war is that Iran attacked U.S troops when U.S troops tried to invade along the Iran boarder without Irans authorization. This would be a dangerous move at this point in time, and because the protection of the American people, whom elected Bush in the first would be jeprodized (in a greater amount even than before) because of a dicision made by Bush plausably in this case. There would be even more dire consequences for Bush himself.
__________________
0PtIcAl Last edited by cybersharp; 01-11-2006 at 12:02 AM.. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#30 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#31 (permalink) |
Addict
|
Funny that no-one has mentioned the rumoured Iranian oil bourse.
In 2000, Saddam decided that all Iraqi oil (25% of the world's stock) would trade in Euro ONLY. Cue Invasions 1 and 2. As soon as the US gained control of the Ministry of Oil and the oilfields, they changed the currency for trading oil back to the dollar at a loss of about 17% to the Iraqis due to Euro/Dollar differences. In 2004, Iran announced that it would be attempting to create a trading bourse similiar to NYMEX, LPE or IPE (All American owned). It would also trade only in Euros. Soon after, we heard about the axis of evil and nuclear research over there. Iranian oil bourse ambitions are more dangerous to the US than a nuclear weapon. They don't have a delivery system for nukes, don't have the infrastructure to build weapons capable of reaching the US for years. The biggest risk is Israel, does the US really want to be in the area arguing if Iran or Syria detonate one in Israel? A simple standoff nuclear attack would be simpler, more effective and probably agreed with by European states were Iran to do something so stupid. England would probably have one or two Tridents standing by just for the hell of it and test our own systems in a live fire exercise. A Euro/oil trading system though would seriously rock the US petrodollar value. You don't have any reserves over there of value anymore. You import more than you need and keep raising the national dept because of it, but you need to to keep the petrodollar high. Example: If japan wants to buy oil, at the moment they need to do it in Dollars. Therefore they need to get dollars by selling goods cheap to America. (Cars, Electronics) The US then prints up some dollars and gives them to the Japanese who buy oil on the markets (giving a cut to the US companies that own the exchanges). The oil gets shipped to Japan, never touching US soil. Then, countries like Saudi Arabia, bank that money back in the US federal Reserve. Money for nothing. Do you think that the US military machine can withstand it's financial backer (US Govt) going bankrupt should it's primary income fall do to oil going through the hands of the Euro? Whether or not Iran can actually pull it off is another matter as, due to sanctions, they are limited in what they can export/import. However, as the US has shown, all it needs to do is facilitate the meeting between buyer and seller. |
![]() |
![]() |
#32 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
|
WillyPete... I didn't know about Iran's push to trade in Euros. That would definately piss off the US.
It is today's equivalent of Mossadegh's nationalizing Iranian oil back in the 50s. The only difference here is that what Seaver says is true. The youth of Iran are coming. Change is in the air. This gives the moderates in the West something to point to and say... Just have patience. That and the fact that a lot of treasure has already been spent on Iraq.
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
![]() |
![]() |
#33 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
My fears realized. Israel will takes things into their own hands, unless Iran will step back.
Link Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#34 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Within the same link given above, is this article:
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#35 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
The intel on Irans nuclear capabilities is HIGHLY SUSPECT, as suspect in fact as the information that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082201447.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101453_pf.html All I can say is we're doing this again, can someone PLEASE stop us? Can we stop bombings and death BEFORE it comes to light that Iran wasn't a danger to anyone, instead of after? |
![]() |
![]() |
#36 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
I wish I knew how, Will. I believe the EU members made a genuine effort to diffuse this situation. It is illogical for Iran to go down this road, given what little we know. It's what we don't know that is driving this confrontation IMO.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#37 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
Iran's "illogical" push to resume nuclear research might be quite logical given Bush's foreign policy examples.
Another TruthOut Link Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#38 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
|
The Russian government has made a small compromise.
The same Truthout Link from above Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#39 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
|
What happens if we go to war with Iran and once inside we find no WMD or nuclear warhead factories..... only reactor sites?
Where will we stand in the international community then? What will our "word" be worth? And for those who take the Neo-Con stance "who cares what the world thinks of us?" I say, you are hypocrits and idiots because you believe the trade deficits we run up and the investment in our money these countries, such as China, are ok. But what they think of us doesn't matter? That's like a District Attorney saying I owe the Mafia big money, but fuck them I'll just keep trying to convict their friends and they won't do anything. Yeah, right, till Frankie comes calling with some cement shoes. Yeah right as we see China and others dump the dollar for the Euro, sell our debt for pennies on the dollar and/or decide to collect. Then what? We go to war with the BILLION man army? ![]() We decide to nuke them and in turn destroy and kill everyone? ![]() The madness has to stop, we are no longer in control. As long as other countries own our debt, they own what we do and we either work to pay it off or we sit smile and listen to what they say. The GOP wants so desperately to make this a global economy, allowed businesses to leave without any fights and allowed the trade deficit and national debt to balloon to deadly heights and yet they want to say "fuck what they think of us?"....... Damn, must be nice to live in that fantasy world where the US is still #1. I'm not a US hater, I hate what the greed in corporations, our government and the rich have done to this country. I believe we owe our country more, we owe it to our kids and grandkids to have the chances our parents and grandparents and some of us older posters had. With the way things are now..... we not only have taken those chances for advancement away, but we are leaving them with serious debts that WILL have to be paid by them. And that is unforgiveable.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 01-12-2006 at 11:27 PM.. |
![]() |
![]() |
#40 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: midwest
|
Elphaba And MoonDog correctly point out that Israel won't allow Iran to go nuclear. Before the current Iranian leadership came into power, I held out hope that there might be a diplomatic solution, but with Iran now bluntly saying that Israel needs to get out, it is hardly surprising that the timeline for a pre-emptive strike has been moved up to a few months (I had heard that Israel previously had a one year timeline). The United Nations won't move quickly or decisively enough to be a factor, whether or not there is a veto issue. Israel will hit Iran...the interesting and scary part is trying to figure out the consequenses of that.
|
![]() |
Tags |
iran |
|
|