UN office doctored report on murder of Hariri - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

j8ear · 10-21-2005, 04:31 PM

Here is the article from the London Times:

Quote:

UN office doctored report on murder of Hariri
From James Bone in New York and Nicholas Blanchard in Beirut
THE United Nations withheld some of the most damaging allegations against Syria in its report on the murder of Rafik Hariri, the former Lebanese Prime Minister, it emerged yesterday.

The names of the brother of Bashar al-Assad, President of Syria, and other members of his inner circle, were dropped from the report that was sent to the Security Council.

The confidential changes were revealed by an extraordinary computer gaffe because an electronic version distributed by UN officials on Thursday night allowed recipients to track editing changes.

The mistaken release of the unedited report added further support to the published conclusion that Syria was behind Mr Hariri’s assassination in a bomb blast on Valentine’s Day in Beirut. The murder of Mr Hariri touched off an international outcry and hastened Syria’s departure from Lebanon in April after a 29-year pervasive military presence.

Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, described the report’s findings as “deeply troubling”. Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, said: “It is an unpleasant story which the international community will take very seriously indeed.”

But the furore over the doctoring of the report threatened to overshadow its damaging findings. It raised questions about political interference by Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary- General, who had promised not to make any changes in the report.

One crucial change, apparently made after the report was submitted to the UN chief, removed the name of President al-Assad’s brother, Maher, his brother-in-law, Assef al-Shawkat, and other high-ranking Syrian officials.

The final, edited version quoted a witness as saying that the plot to kill Mr Hariri was hatched by unnamed “senior Lebanese and Syrian officials”. But the undoctored version named those officials as “Maher al-Assad, Assef Shawkat, Hassan Khalil, Bahjat Suleyman and Jamal al-Sayyed”.

The deleted names represent the inner core of the Syrian regime. Maher al-Assad, President al-Assad’s younger brother, is a lieutenant-colonel and head of the Presidential Guard. He is known for his quick tem- per and six years ago was said to have shot his brother-in-law, General Assef Shawkat, in the stomach during an altercation.

General Shawkat, also among the deleted names, is married to President al-Assad’s headstrong sister, Bushra, and was appointed commander of Syrian military intelligence on February 14 this year, the day Mr Hariri was murdered. Gen- eral Shawkat’s predecessor at Military Intelligence was General Hassan Khalil, the third name on the deleted list.

General Bahjat Suleyman, the fourth Syrian on the list, was until June the head of the internal affairs section of the powerful General Security Department, the main civilian intelligence service.

The only Lebanese on the deleted list is General Jamal al-Sayyed, the former head of the General Security Department in Lebanon. General al-Sayyed features prominently in the report and is alleged to be one of the ringleaders plotting Mr Hariri’s assassination.

Mr Annan had pledged repeatedly through his chief spokesman, Stephane Dujarric, that he would not change a word of the report by Detlev Mehlis, a German prosecutor. But computer tracking showed that the final edit began at about 11.38am on Thursday — a minute after Herr Mehlis began a meeting with Mr Annan to present his report. The names of Maher al-Assad, General Shawkat and the others were apparently removed at 11.55am, after the meeting ended.

At a press conference yesterday Herr Mehlis insisted that Mr Annan had not pressurised him into making changes. “No one outside of the report team influenced these changes and no changes whatsoever were suggested by the Secretary-General,” he said.

Here is the UN report in full.

Holy freaking crap! What is going on in that organization? Sparing the family of dictators? Why? Either Annan is behind this nonsense, or he has lost control of the organization. Either way, this, in addition to his already well documented corruption, indicates it is time for him to go. And to go in disgrace.

-bear

djtestudo · 10-21-2005, 04:50 PM

So basically, it seems that the Secretary-General of the UN might be complacent in the assasination of a national political leader.

Where did they find this guy? Iraqi secret police?

Personally, I would tell the UN that either he goes or THEY go (from New York), but then again, there's a reason I won't even be a politician

macmanmike6100 · 10-21-2005, 04:54 PM

I can't stand Annan, especially now. Get rid of him; he *is* a disgrace. The UN needs a serious overhaul; his expulsion is just the beginning.

irateplatypus · 10-21-2005, 07:36 PM

just like oil-for-food, UN troopers raping children in the Congo, and embezzlement of UN funds... the most remarkable feature of this story is that no one will care.

Ustwo · 10-21-2005, 10:35 PM

*Crickets chirping*

I listen for the indignation of the left.

maximusveritas · 10-21-2005, 11:22 PM

I think we're just wondering if you guys would be as "indignant" if this were something that President Bush had done.
This is a non-story. They edited out some names. Big deal, happens all the time and it doesn't change a thing in the report. Herr Mehlis said he did it on his own and explained why he did it.
Calling for Annan to be dismissed is just as ridiculous as the Bush haters calling for Bush to be impeached.

But you don't have to believe me, listen to John Bolton:

Quote:

Washington's U.N. Ambassador John Bolton dismissed the controversy, saying it was distracting from the main findings of the investigation. He added, "the report's substance does not change, no matter what version you have."

Charlatan · 10-21-2005, 11:40 PM

I'm not overly indignant on this one... from what I can see they have only accused these men and not charged them (hell they don't have the authority to charge them). If they were named it is generally agreed that they would be hunted down.

I guess those on the right here do not believe in innocent until proven guilty and would like to see vigilante justice done...

Elphaba · 10-22-2005, 04:31 PM

This cricket was taking a nice snooze because I don't tend to get a "holy freaking crap" response from a single article. So it is necessary, once again, to do the homework that seems lacking in posts of this kind. Ya know, actually reading the material offered?

Quote:

Here is the UN report in full.

If you bothered to read this 54 page report in full, you would have learned that the investigation is incomplete but has come to the end of the time period allotted for it.
Four pro-Syrian generals have been arrested, but further leads remain to be investigated that point to Syrian officials. All information relevant to the investigation has been turned over to Lebanon, and additional time has been requested to pursue what Syrian involvement can be determined.

It is an ongoing investigation and you can't name suspected individuals when you currently have no substantive data to back up your claim. The report states that Syrian officials are providing false information and that they should be compelled to be more forthcoming.

Quote:

The final, edited version quoted a witness as saying that the plot to kill Mr Hariri was hatched by unnamed “senior Lebanese and Syrian officials”. But the undoctored version named those officials as “Maher al-Assad, Assef Shawkat, Hassan Khalil, Bahjat Suleyman and Jamal al-Sayyed”.

Sayyed is in jail, and the rest are beyond Lebanon's reach. Does a single witness's claim rise to a level of proof needed for prosecution? The final report also speaks to that:

Quote:

210. As a result of the Commission's investigation to date, a number of people have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit murder and related crimes in connection with the assassination of Mr. Hariri and twenty-two others. The Commission is of course of the view that all people, including those charged with serious crimes should be considered innocent until proven guilty following a fair trial.

There is that last little bit in the article bear provided:

Quote:

At a press conference yesterday Herr Mehlis insisted that Mr Annan had not pressurised him into making changes. “No one outside of the report team influenced these changes and no changes whatsoever were suggested by the Secretary-General,” he said.

We are left with one thing, and that is the "extraordinary computer gaff." Rather than viewing this as a "mistake", it seems equally likely that this was a subtle diplomatic signal to Syria that certain government officials are in the headlights of this investigation. Perhaps Syria thought it would all go away with the unfortunate suicide ::cough:: of Ghazi Kanaan, former head of Syria's military intelligence in Lebanon.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...yria.minister/

Quote:

Syrian minister commits suicide

Thursday, October 13, 2005; Posted: 9:46 a.m. EDT (13:46 GMT)

Ghazi Kanaan's death was reported Wednesday, days before the expected release of a United Nations report into the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a prominent opponent of Syria's presence in Lebanon.

The 63-year-old Baathist major general died in a Damascus hospital of a gunshot wound to the head, according to the interior ministry and other government ministers.

The head of the intensive care unit at the hospital told CNN's Brent Sadler a small-caliber bullet went through the roof of Kanaan's mouth and exited through the back of his head.

Hours before his death, Kanaan had been interviewed by a Lebanese radio station after he called in to refute allegations that aired on Lebanese television Tuesday night that he had accepted bribes and payoffs while in the Lebanon post.

Kanaan told the anchorwoman at the Voice of Lebanon, a Christian radio station, that he had chosen to speak with her because he trusted her and wanted to clear his name after the report on NewTV, an independent television station.

"I want to clarify that what is being reported is baseless and all untrue," the interior minister said in a calm, firm voice.

Kanaan said he had nothing but good intentions for Lebanon and nothing against Hariri.

"I want to clarify that we have affection and mutual respect for our brethren (in) Lebanon and that was for everyone's advantage in order to pull out Lebanon from its crisis at that time," he said.

"We have served the interests of Lebanon with honor and all honesty."

Kanaan noted that Syria made sacrifices of blood for the cause of Lebanese unity and that Lebanon's liberation would not have been possible without Damascus.

And as if he already knew his fate, the interior minister told the anchorwoman that he was giving her this exclusive statement and he wanted her to pass it on to other Lebanese media "because I believe this is the last statement I can make."

Less than two hours later, he was dead.

An important political figure in Syria for more than 35 years, Kanaan was one of the most senior government officials to be interviewed by a German prosecutor heading the U.N. investigation into Hariri's killing.

Those interviews took place about a week ago.

In his radio comments, Kanaan said he objectively answered all the questions posed to him by the investigators.

Many Lebanese said Syria ordered the car bombing that killed Hariri in February 2005 but Damascus has repeatedly denied any links.

The assassination sparked a wave of protests in Beirut that helped lead to Syria's announced withdrawal from the country in April.

Four pro-Syrian Lebanese generals have been arrested and charged in connection with Hariri's murder.

A report from the U.N. probe is expected to be released within the next 10 days, and while it will mainly deal with the assassination itself, it is also expected to address the millions of dollars alleged to have changed hands in the corruption scandal.

Just before news of Kanaan's death, Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview that Syria had no involvement in Hariri's death, and it was impossible for him to have ordered it.

But, he said, if the U.N. probe concluded that Syrians were involved, then they would be regarded as traitors and should be charged with treason and face punishment, either through the Syrian judicial process or by an international court.

"If indeed there is a Syrian national implicated, he would be considered as a traitor and most severely punished," Assad said.

Kanaan was the head of Syrian military intelligence in Lebanon from 1982 till 2002. He was appointed interior minister in 2004.

In July, the U.S. Department of the Treasury said it had frozen Kanaan's U.S. assets, alleging he was involved in Syria's military and security presence in Lebanon.

CNN's Sadler said Al-Assad's government was extremely shaken by the Kanaan's death. "Officials were incredulous at the news. He was the lynchpin of the Syrian security apparatus for more than two decades."

It is my guess that Kanaan may have been the witness that pointed to top Syrian government officials. It's a tad difficult to keep that claim in the UN report, if your witness is dead.

Elphaba · 10-22-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Holy freaking crap! What is going on in that organization? Sparing the family of dictators? Why? Either Annan is behind this nonsense, or he has lost control of the organization. Either way, this, in addition to his already well documented corruption, indicates it is time for him to go. And to go in disgrace.

Quote:

So basically, it seems that the Secretary-General of the UN might be complacent in the assasination of a national political leader.

Where did they find this guy? Iraqi secret police?

Personally, I would tell the UN that either he goes or THEY go (from New York), but then again, there's a reason I won't even be a politician

Quote:

I can't stand Annan, especially now. Get rid of him; he *is* a disgrace. The UN needs a serious overhaul; his expulsion is just the beginning.

Quote:

just like oil-for-food, UN troopers raping children in the Congo, and embezzlement of UN funds... the most remarkable feature of this story is that no one will care.

Quote:

*Crickets chirping*

I listen for the indignation of the left.

Gee, fella's. You sure jumped out there with your typical uninformed outrage and smugness. The UN report is doing the job it was intended to do, unless of course you have a fondness for the Syrian government.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/102205C.shtml

Quote:

Syria Feels Heat over UN Report
By Anthony Shadid
The Washington Post

Saturday 22 October 2005

Middle East is captivated by findings in Hariri killing.

Damascus, Syria - A day after its release, a UN report that implicated senior Syrian officials in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri escalated pressure on the already beleaguered government here and ignited renewed demands that Lebanon's pro-Syrian president step down.

The publication of the report on the deaths of Hariri and 22 other people in a car bombing in Beirut on Feb. 14 unleashed a reaction seldom seen in the Middle East. The 54-page document was read in its entirety on al-Jazeera, the Arab satellite television network; other stations broadcast hours of coverage Friday on the report and its fallout. To many people here, its publication marked a turning point in Middle East politics, signaling a looming confrontation with an uncertain outcome.

"This is simply the beginning," said Farid El-Khazen, a Lebanese lawmaker and political scientist. "There is little room for maneuver left for the Syrians now. They have to cooperate fully to save themselves from more isolation or they opt for rejection of the report, claiming it is all political. Syria doesn't have a middle-ground option."

In Damascus, some Syrian government supporters were unusually open in expressing fear about the repercussions of the inquiry, which President Bush cited Friday in calling on the UN Security Council to take action.

"The government is rather cornered. Essentially, what the government can do is very limited," said Georges Jabbour, a Syrian legislator and former presidential adviser. "I am not quite optimistic."

The report stopped short of directly blaming President Bashar Assad or members of his inner circle, where his relatives occupy the most sensitive posts. But it bluntly said that the investigation's leads pointed directly at involvement by Syrian security officials in the assassination and insisted that Syria clarify unresolved questions.

The report said Syria's longtime foreign minister, Farouk Charaa, lied in a letter to investigators. It also cited one witness as implicating Assad's powerful brother-in-law, Asef Shawkat. Another claim that Shawkat, Assad's brother Maher and other senior officials played a role in planning the assassination was deleted from the final report.

With a mix of anger and trepidation, Syrian officials condemned the findings, although their response was muted on the Muslim Sabbath. Most hewed to a common line: that the investigation relied on often unnamed witnesses of questionable character, that the report was tailored to meet US objections to Syrian policy and that its findings would never hold up in a court of law. The information minister, Mehdi Dakhlallah, called the investigation "a political statement."

"It is impossible that a fair court would accept a report like this, relying as it does on mere talk," he said in a news release.

The most immediate fallout was growing pressure in Lebanon for the resignation of the country's pro-Syrian president, Emile Lahoud. The president rebuffed demands that he step down in August after four Lebanese generals were arrested on suspicion of participating in the assassination.

The UN investigation, led by the German prosecutor Detlev Mehlis, found that Lahoud received a phone call minutes before the blast from the brother of a prominent member of a pro-Syrian group, who in turn called one of the country's generals. Lahoud's office said it categorically denied receiving such a call.

In a signal Lahoud has no intention of resigning, the statement by his office said the charge was part of a months-long campaign against him "and the national responsibilities he shoulders and will continue to do so at this delicate stage in Lebanon's history."

Charlatan · 10-22-2005, 06:05 PM

*crickets chirping*

great reply Elphaba...

Marvelous Marv · 10-22-2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Gee, fella's. You sure jumped out there with your typical uninformed outrage and smugness.

So Tom DeLay should still be House Majority Leader, right?

"Crickets chirping."

cyrnel · 10-22-2005, 06:45 PM

I agree the edits smell foul, and don't match Annan's "no-edit" promise, but it could simply be that they don't have solid evidence pointing to the individuals. Leaving uncertain names in the report, even with other solid facts, would make it easy to discredit as a whole. Better to let the public froth while the Syrian government drowns in denials.

Now for the paranoid section: I'm having trouble with the continual stupidity of people "forgetting" about edit history. Hasn't this been covered in Sleazebag-101 for 15yrs? It's easier to imagine the edits being left intentionally.

1) Someone else left the edits to shaft both the Syrians and Annan. Looks bad for Annan, and when the general public finds out the original report names individuals, it's worse than if the names had been included. This version carries rumors the UN couldn't prove, but Syrian denials lend credibility. Rumors can be worse than official charges.

2) Annan did it on purpose. He knows they don't have solid evidence, but he wants the charges aired. He can sidestep the edit mini-scandal. I'm not a fan of Annan, but would he have attained his position by being stupid?

Okay, I'll stop.

Lebell · 10-22-2005, 07:42 PM

First and last warning.

Discuss the topic and layoff each other.

MoonDog · 10-22-2005, 08:10 PM

Well, on the way home I was listening to NPR. The reporter stated that a request has been made to extend the investigation, and that it would likely be granted. We'll learn more about this, and then we can all sit back and watch Bashir squirm.

I didn't need to hear/see names on this report - not yet.

hannukah harry · 10-23-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marvelous Marv

So Tom DeLay should still be House Majority Leader, right?

"Crickets chirping."

wouldn't you say there's a bit of a difference between the weight of a un investigative report and an inditment from a grandjury?

also, according the republicans 'contract with america,' delay should not be house majority leader. seems to me like he's doing the right thing.

Seaver · 10-23-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

wouldn't you say there's a bit of a difference between the weight of a un investigative report and an inditment from a grandjury?

Considering all the uninvestigated reports from the UN have been doggidly fought against by the UN have all been true since Annan has been in power... seem's to hold weight against me.

BUT, I take the same stance on everyone being investigated. Let them do their work and we'll see the facts. Personally I think the UN is as corrupt as boxing.. but that's just me.

j8ear · 10-25-2005, 11:37 AM

I think most of you are missing the point, and it is entirely my fault.

I posted this to discuss a UN, and its Sec-Gen which injected iteself into an investigative roll surrounding the ASSISINATION of the LEADER OF A SOVERIEGN NATION, and then attempting to withhold the most interesting parts of it's own investigation.

I left the door open to such charges as unfairly judging guilty before innocent, unreasonably expecting the UN to be true to it's charter and the word of it's leader and all that other unfair stuff.

-bear

Charlatan · 10-25-2005, 11:48 AM

Can you clear something up for me bear? With only one witness naming names, do you think it would be right for the report to name those names? Isn't that just hearsay?

j8ear · 10-25-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Can you clear something up for me bear? With only one witness naming names, do you think it would be right for the report to name those names? Isn't that just hearsay?

Maybe. In fact, that seems reasonable, on the face of it.

To late now though isn't it?

j8ear · 10-25-2005, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elphaba

Gee, fella's. You sure jumped out there with your typical uninformed outrage and smugness. The UN report is doing the job it was intended to do, unless of course you have a fondness for the Syrian government.

I take exception to this....

1. I am uninformed and smug.
2. Either I think the report is adequate or I have fondness for the Syrian government.

Is this really what you meant?

-bear

j8ear · 10-25-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

Someone else left the edits to shaft both the Syrians and Annan. Looks bad for Annan, and when the general public finds out the original report names individuals, it's worse than if the names had been included. This version carries rumors the UN couldn't prove, but Syrian denials lend credibility. Rumors can be worse than official charges.

To me, this is the most reasonable interpretation of what went down.

Great perspective Cyrnel.

-bear

Ustwo · 10-25-2005, 12:40 PM

The funny thing about politics is that replace U.N. with Bush Admin, and you would see a very different take from the same people posting.

Elphaba · 10-25-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

I take exception to this....

1. I am uninformed and smug.
2. Either I think the report is adequate or I have fondness for the Syrian government.

Is this really what you meant?

-bear

No, it was entirely snarkiness on my part, for which I apologize.

10-21-2005, 04:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	So basically, it seems that the Secretary-General of the UN might be complacent in the assasination of a national political leader. Where did they find this guy? Iraqi secret police? Personally, I would tell the UN that either he goes or THEY go (from New York), but then again, there's a reason I won't even be a politician __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

10-21-2005, 07:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	just like oil-for-food, UN troopers raping children in the Congo, and embezzlement of UN funds... the most remarkable feature of this story is that no one will care. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

10-21-2005, 10:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Crickets chirping I listen for the indignation of the left. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-21-2005, 11:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I'm not overly indignant on this one... from what I can see they have only accused these men and not charged them (hell they don't have the authority to charge them). If they were named it is generally agreed that they would be hunted down. I guess those on the right here do not believe in innocent until proven guilty and would like to see vigilante justice done... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-22-2005, 06:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	crickets chirping great reply Elphaba... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-21-2005, 04:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
macmanmike6100 High Honorary Junkie Location: Tri-state.	I can't stand Annan, especially now. Get rid of him; he is a disgrace. The UN needs a serious overhaul; his expulsion is just the beginning.

10-22-2005, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	I agree the edits smell foul, and don't match Annan's "no-edit" promise, but it could simply be that they don't have solid evidence pointing to the individuals. Leaving uncertain names in the report, even with other solid facts, would make it easy to discredit as a whole. Better to let the public froth while the Syrian government drowns in denials. Now for the paranoid section: I'm having trouble with the continual stupidity of people "forgetting" about edit history. Hasn't this been covered in Sleazebag-101 for 15yrs? It's easier to imagine the edits being left intentionally. 1) Someone else left the edits to shaft both the Syrians and Annan. Looks bad for Annan, and when the general public finds out the original report names individuals, it's worse than if the names had been included. This version carries rumors the UN couldn't prove, but Syrian denials lend credibility. Rumors can be worse than official charges. 2) Annan did it on purpose. He knows they don't have solid evidence, but he wants the charges aired. He can sidestep the edit mini-scandal. I'm not a fan of Annan, but would he have attained his position by being stupid? Okay, I'll stop. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

10-22-2005, 07:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	First and last warning. Discuss the topic and layoff each other. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-22-2005, 08:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
MoonDog Psycho Location: Buffalo, New York	Well, on the way home I was listening to NPR. The reporter stated that a request has been made to extend the investigation, and that it would likely be granted. We'll learn more about this, and then we can all sit back and watch Bashir squirm. I didn't need to hear/see names on this report - not yet.

10-25-2005, 11:37 AM	#17 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	I think most of you are missing the point, and it is entirely my fault. I posted this to discuss a UN, and its Sec-Gen which injected iteself into an investigative roll surrounding the ASSISINATION of the LEADER OF A SOVERIEGN NATION, and then attempting to withhold the most interesting parts of it's own investigation. I left the door open to such charges as unfairly judging guilty before innocent, unreasonably expecting the UN to be true to it's charter and the word of it's leader and all that other unfair stuff. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

10-25-2005, 11:48 AM	#18 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Can you clear something up for me bear? With only one witness naming names, do you think it would be right for the report to name those names? Isn't that just hearsay? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-25-2005, 12:40 PM	#22 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The funny thing about politics is that replace U.N. with Bush Admin, and you would see a very different take from the same people posting. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.