09-10-2005, 03:09 PM | #1 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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Katrina Reconstruction - Who will profit?
The following is a Reuters article that Yahoo.com posted today. The article clearly states that patronage plays a part in both political parties, so I hope that we can discuss this question in a bipartisan manner. One way or the other we will all be paying for the reconstruction of the damage done by Katrina.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050910/...NlYwN5bnN0b3J5 Quote:
This doesn't strike me as "patronage as usual" will the oft used excuse that everyone does it. Shouldn't there be some congressional oversight in these decisions? |
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09-10-2005, 05:05 PM | #3 (permalink) |
can't help but laugh
Location: dar al-harb
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part of the issue is that only a small handful of contractors are able to take on these massive projects... so the same names get thrown around each time. however, washington lobbyists and appointed officials have always maintained a very incestuous relationship.
the root problem is congress' unquenchable thirst for more bureaucracy coupled with the tradition of the executive branch's ability to appoint those positions. more bureaucracies are created, which means more appointments by the incoming elected executives, which means more links in the chain, which means more congressional funding, which means more power to the lobbyists who secure that funding for their own ends. i'm not well enough informed to cry foul in this case, but I wouldn't mind seeing some changes made in the overall process.
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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill |
09-10-2005, 05:12 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Unbelievable
Location: Grants Pass OR
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Kellog, Brown and Root have extensive experience with these types of projects, they also have the capital to be able to undertake such projects. Would you rather these projects were awarded to contractors incapable of making payroll, or purchasing the materials, or even qualifying for the necessary performance bond for a project such as this?
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09-10-2005, 10:38 PM | #6 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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09-10-2005, 10:51 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Unbelievable
Location: Grants Pass OR
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Ok so you open it to competitive bidding, so now you've got to spell out precisely what work is the bidders responsibility, which with projects such as these it's nigh impossible to know what you'll find. You also will end up with several delays to the project because of negotiating change orders, forced accounts, etc. I can think of three likely companies that would bid on the job, Kellog Brown and Root, Bechtel, and Shaw. These are companies that are of the size necessary and have demonstrated the ability to do this scale of work. Your talking about building an entire cities infrastructure here, not remodeling a bathroom, there simply isn't a large number of construction companies capable of taking on a project of this scale.
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09-11-2005, 12:33 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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09-11-2005, 12:55 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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1. Why does the entire contract, or even very sizable portions of it, have to go to a single company? 2. If you would say that it's more efficient this way, I would have to point to some of the glaring ineffiiencies we have seen in the KBR work in Iraq, and particular in the area of fiscal accountability, that might cast some doubt on the truth of that claim. I think there are going to be very similar problems for a large company handling multiple sites within the city, and smaller companies handling individual sites, areas etc. A company that large has its own communications issues and mismanagement issues within its various departments. Although I can certainly see how the current situation arises, with industry consultants being hired from the current administrations...I personally think that if you serve high up in the government beurocracy for, say disaster management, you should have a period of say, 3-5 years, where you can not lobby or consult private industry in that area. These types of agreements are fairly common in private industry as non-disclosure and non-competition agreements, and it might stem some of the current use of high government position as stepping stones to high-pay consulting / lobbying jobs for the obvious network connections that are encumbant with the positions. You might say, but how will these people get jobs after public office? I would say "change fields." I might suggest judging Arabian thorougbred horses, for instance, as there is an obvious connection to disaster managment.
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09-11-2005, 01:38 PM | #11 (permalink) | ||
Unbelievable
Location: Grants Pass OR
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09-11-2005, 02:00 PM | #12 (permalink) | |||
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
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09-12-2005, 10:26 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Greenwood, Arkansas
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The bottomline in this discussion should be OUR bottomline; which companies are going to make money for their shareholders off this? We can decry the inequity of the system, but to not participate in it to raise some money (which we can then use to try to defeat politicians we don't like, perhaps?) makes no sense to me.
Trouble is, I saw this article after several of the ones involved have already had a run-up past a prudent buying point (I'm an Investors Business Daily type of investor).
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AVOR A Voice Of Reason, not necessarily the ONLY one. |
09-13-2005, 06:38 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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I agree AVOR.
Say what you will about the source of this article, but very strong connections are made to why we keep returning to the same companies whether in Iraq or New Orleans. There are blue links in the original that don't appear here for source checking. I recommend reading the original at: http://www.tomdispatch.com/ Quote:
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09-13-2005, 07:16 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Psycho
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I find it interesting that many of the same people who criticized Bush and FEMA for slow response times for the initial stages of Katrina's devastation are now lambasting Bush and FEMA for acting too quickly.
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The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. Stephen King |
09-14-2005, 06:17 AM | #16 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Right here
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the really interesting thing is that these companies aren't going to pay prevailing wages.
compounding that problem, they are ok'ed to hire illegal immigrants for the clean-up Bush is allowing a two month amnesty and also suspended the normal background/record checks of employees Now you can sit there and act like I'm just hating on Bush, but I don't know the guy...I'm just writing what I heard on the news--not saying whether it's good or bad
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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman |
09-14-2005, 05:49 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
Gentlemen Farmer
Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey
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1. Was this a specific OK to hire illegals, or is it the generally accepted wink and a nod that nothing will be done to these "employers" just like every other contractor, landscaper, meat packer, and farm in this country? 2. Which background/record checks are being suspended? 3. What is a prevailing wage? btw, I'll sit here and hate on Bush, and I'll say that I think this is bad ....well except for the background check and prevailing wage part. -bear
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Tags |
katrina, profit, reconstruction |
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