CShine

Seems we've seen this kind of tactic so often now that we can start calling it the new norm for 21st century politics. A big-money right-wing organization is launching a major ad campaign to try and drag the AARP's name into their dungeon for the evil left. Looks like we've got a regular pattern here. Any time someone opposes you just trot out the same hate-mongering cliches about liberals and then play pin the tail on the donkey. Wonder who'll be next on the smear campaign agenda? Maybe the Salvation Army? Is anyone immune from this crap?



http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Po...tackonAARP.htm

flstf

My wife and I are probably dropping our AARP membership because of their stance against personal accounts. You would think that those of us close to retirement don't care about our kids and younger people. We know how bad a deal SS is for us and when something comes along to give the younger folks a better deal the AARP comes out against it because some older folks get nervous with changes in SS. I think it is a very selfish position for them to take.

IMHO the ad by USA Next does nothing to help their cause or get new members.

StanT

To my knowledge, there isn't much of a plan to be for or against. Just a bunch of general ideas floating around. I'll withold judgement until I see something concrete.

I tend to blow off negative ads.

ObieX

I'm still trying to figure out what an X over a soldier and not being anti-gay has to do with social security.

Am i missing something?

__________________
We Must Dissent.

Superbelt

Forgive my cynicism.

AARP is getting what it deserves. It backed a faulty Bush medicaid plan that was designed to profit the drug companies and insurance companies (which is what AARP is now).
They ceased to be an advocacy group for the elderly long ago.
So screw them.

Interesting how people who are in Bush's way get screwed and slandered like this.

McCain in his way, push polling of him fathering an illegitimately black child was disseminated through the south.

Joe Wilson gets in his way, someone in the WH spreads his covert wife's identity and get's her outed by several 'journalists'

Kerry, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (a group fronted and funded by close friends of Bush)

AARP, USA Next inexplicably attacks them as being anti-american and pro homo sex.
Whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. It looks like they just grabbed two images that light cultural conservative fires and created an ad.
And I expected so much more from what literally is a repackaged Swift Boat Veterans for truth. Same exact people, same exact funding.
It's just a mud slinging machine.

kutulu

This is classic:

Fair and balanced. Yeah right. Bill O'Reily is such a jerkoff. How long ago was this group formed?

guy44

kutulu, you're right, Jarvis and USA Next is TOTALLY full of shit. Nobody has switched from AARP to them. In fact, they have so many members that they reported ZERO income from members (i.e., donations) in their tax returns.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...onfessore.html

Also, USA Next is just a Republican astroturf organization, probably getting orders straight from Rove (an astroturf organization pretends to be an independent lobbying group but really does Republican or Democrat dirty work):

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc..._20.php#004877

__________________
"You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

Fourtyrulz

CShine,

You seem to make a lot of inflammatory and sarcastic remarks about things that have little or no foundation in truth. While I do agree the ad is nothing more than silly propaganda, your reaction to it is just as bad. You are just reversing the same rhetoric the ad uses and aiming at opponents that you disagree with. You should re-examine your own ideas before you criticize the similar closemindedness of people who clearly aren't looking for an intelligent debate.

__________________
the·o·ry - a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation.
faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
- Merriam-Webster's dictionary

djtestudo

SEX

Now that I have your attention, my belief is all this absurd ad is designed for is to bring attention to this group and their cause, and they have done exactly that, kind of like the cliched ploy I used.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

drakers

I'm a "younger folk" and trust me the personal accounts are only going to make things worse. What about the low-income and low educated people in the U.S. Do you really think the majority of them will know what to do with the money they do invest, they won't get the proper education in what to do because the government disinfranchises them; acting like there is no problem. Well the lower class will get the raw end of the deal while the upper middle class and upper class will probably have a better idea what to do with that money. What if they don't get as good of a return on their money, they won't be able to make up that money and get it back. That was money that was guaranteed for the older generation, but now it will be a game of chance. Oh hum, roll the dice and lets see what happens. I'd hate to say, " I told you so".

__________________
Friends don't shake hands, friends 'gotta HUG!

guy44

djtestudo, you are EXACTLY right. This was to kick up controversy, because once USA Next gets coverage, the "objective media" which gives both sides of an issue equal coverage, even if one side is rediculous (such as a group claiming AARP in anti-military, pro-gay).

This is why people such as myself have been turning to blogs. I can't stand this bullshit equal time given to shitfuckers like Jarvis. The only one on TV should have been AARP, denouncing this organization for making blatantly untrue statements about it without even attempting to back them up with fact. Jarvis, if allowed on TV, shouldn't have been given "what is your side of the story" questions, but "what the fuck is wrong with you?" questions.

__________________
"You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

flstf

The proposals I've heard so far allow you to stay in the old plan if you want. However anyone younger than 45 or so would probably opt for higher returns. Government employees get to pick from 5 or so mutual funds instead of paying FICA taxes like the rest of us. This is a far better deal than SS.

Superbelt

Yeah, you can stay with the old plan after the underpinnings of SS are eroded away to make room for the private accounts.
Noone will stay with the old plan simply because the government will no longer guarantee the same level of income after retirement. The income will drop to about 60% or less of what they have previously promised to pay out. And that is just the starting point. It goes down from there.
So there really is NO choice.

Bush's plan also destroys the most important part of SS, the insurance aspect of it. As it currently stands it is income for the elderly, a safety blanket for the disabled and widows/orphans.

The disabled and widows/orphans get especially screwed by the Bush plan because the effective savings that will have been accumulated by the point most of these people will need the money will be little to none, while SS would have guaranteed them something much more substantial.

NCB

This country in this day and age will not screw disabled people or orphans. I wish y'all would come up with more accurate and less emotional arguments. It's like the liberals live in a parallel universe where the evil GOPers steal SS away from grandma, sneak around the homeless at night and steal their blankets, and starve the kids.

__________________

Superbelt

But that's what the plan does. If you sign up for the partial privatization you no longer get the advantage of the full SS insurance system.
You have to live with what you have saved to that point, and unless you die in your late 50's, your family won't have much to draw on.
It's a major drawback of privatization versus the SS insurance system.

NCB

1. There is no plan yet
2. Knowing how politically charged this issue is, do you really believe that the plan will end up cutting benefits to people?
3. Under the current system, black men are getting fucked worse than anyone. They die earlier and all the money they put into their SS lockbox (LOL!!) is gone when they die. This plan can also be sold as helping blacks escape from the lower class. Imagine being able to pass down the money you earned to your children and grandchildren.

__________________

kutulu

I can't believe you actually think that.

Superbelt

1. Too true, but I post from what I know. As there is no full plan, why is Bush pushing this so hard right now and why do you want it so bad? How do you know how good it is? I dislike it on the principle that it destroys what SS is.

2. The plan WILL cut benefits. But the real effect won't be seen for several decades. Then the Federal Government has to bail everyone out without the foresight that strengthening the SS program now would have done. We'll end up paying a premium in the future for what we could be doing preventative spending now to head off.
Privatization is creating that future problem.

3. Very pessimistic and expecting the black community to fail in perpetuity? How about we focus on strengthening the black community rather than pretend that getting a pittance of several thousand dollars in a lump sum when someone dies early is better than getting stable, long term benefits from the SS insurance program.

guy44

African Americans do NOT get screwed over more by SS, despite what you may have heard. The argument goes that because African Americans live shorter lives on average, they get less of a payout from SS and thus get screwed by it. However, shorter average lifespans for AA are primarily because they have a higher death rate at birth.

In fact, after age 65 (when people can start collecting benefits) most Americans live a pretty similar number of years. So AA don't, in fact, get screwed out of SS benefits disproportionately.

__________________
"You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

flstf

As I understand it one of the guiding principals Bush set up for SS was to preserve SS disability and survivor benefits. The benefits of being able to invest a large portion of our FICA tax in mutual funds like the government's Thrift Plan and retire with far more than SS would provide make these personal accounts well worth the effort.

http://www.ssa.gov/qa.htm
The bipartisan Commission he appointed put forward three models based on these principles. These models are in the process of being discussed, as are other alternatives
There are many possible ways to structure personal accounts. Several proposals recommend that a personal savings account plan for Social Security be modeled after the federal government's Thrift Savings Plan. This very popular plan for federal employees and members of Congress allows a choice of five highly diversified, low-cost mutual funds. In the Thrift Savings Plan, no direct investments in individual stocks are allowed.

Disability and SS
Reform proposals would affect only the retirement portion of Social Security.

The disability program (which provides payments to workers who become disabled) and the survivors program (which provides payments to children of workers who die) are separate parts of the Social Security program. Allowing workers to shift some of their payroll taxes to a personal retirement account would have no impact on these other programs.

NCB

More proof that Dems take their constituency for fools


http://democrats.senate.gov/ss/calc.html#

__________________

Manx

I think that's the point of the thread topic, no? I wonder if "the AARP is anti-soldiers and pro-gay marriage" could be any less accurate and more emotional.

flstf

That is hilarious, (investments based on 3% over inflation)
If they really believe this calculator then they should immediately propose that federal workers and congress drop their Thrift Savings Plan and adopt the superior SS plan. The federal workers would probably revolt.