zen_tom

dawsig, say one day the evil might of the Muslim empire manages to over-run the US with it's evil ways. As a part of that society, would you join in with the stoning?

Rdr4evr

Muslims don't have a personal vendetta to kill all non-believers, yet Islam was founded on that belief. It was Muhammad who stated to surrender to Allah or suffer the consequences.

Like I said, Muslims are some of the most peaceful and nice people you will ever meet, my entire family (except myself) are Muslims, but that doesn't change the facts that the Quran is indeed somewhat violent.

But Islam aside, all religions are violent as has been proven over the centuries, Christianity and Judaism are no better, but since were on the topic of Islam...

The whole concept of religion is fucked, although I don't believe in all the non-sense, we should all be Muslim considering Mohammad was the final prophet.

dlish

sorry to break it to ya, but human nature by default is violent..religious, secular or otherwise...its not just the fundo's that condone it.. of course u have the neo cons shedding blood in the name of democracy (or is that in the name of bushes version of christianity)... then you have had up until recently lynching of black men for nothing but their colour, of course then u have state sanctioned executions in US states, you have death penalties is democratic muslim countries for drug trafficking..its endless. i just dont see why its religion that cops it... we all have a tendancy to be violent whether we like to admit it or not.


and no the basis of the islamic relgion is not based on ridding the populace of 'infidels'. the islamic renaisance came when islamic philosophy, history, mathematics, science were at the forefront of human civilisation..and at a time when muslims and jews lived in relative harmony and worked in unison. its well known that the jews flourished under islamic rule in Andulusia, right up until the Spanish Inquisition.. so to say that islamic religion is based to rid the world of heathens in incorrect. to say the islamic world would want salvation for human kind by wanting everyone to be muslim is something else..and all other religions share this ideal that they wish for a human race of their own religion..but then, wheres the fun in that?

oh btw, most wars are not started because of religion..its flared by politics and land..religion gets brought into the picture later.. look at all the conflicts in the muslim world..
iraq, afghanisan vs russia, iran vs iraq in the 80's, chechnya, bosnia list goes on.. yes, theres one common denominator, its POLITICS.. religion is used to incite the masses after the fact...which leads me to my initial point..human nature is violent in its essance..religous or secular..there is no difference

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Rdr4evr

Yeah, it seems all arguments relating to violence and peace resort back to the "all humans are violent by nature", and unfortunately, it is true, but to a certain extent. If all of humanity were riddled with violent individuals, we wouldn't have even made it to the point we are at now. The truth is that a majorty are not violent by nature, not to the extent of willingly physically harming others. And you are correct, it is not solely the extremists who do all the damage, but once they gather enough drones, religion can and has been the worst form of weaponry and mass destruction imaginable, and will inevitability lead to our self-destruction for some senseless cause.

You stated earlier that I presented quotes from the Quran that were out of context, but this is not necessarily true. Although there are excerpts that completely defy the negative ones, example being "There must be no coercion in matters of faith!" (2:256). It can be argued from both sides, but the scriptures have varied over time. The one fact that remains is that Islam needs to be modernized, it needs to pertain to modern life in order for fanaticism to not be justified and for Islam to not be looked at as a prehistoric way of life. Whereas Christianity and Judaism have evolved with time (although still filled with flaws), Islam has remained to thinking in the old.

Either way, religion is still the justification for more violence than is necessary, and I believe humanity would endure significantly less suffering without it.

daswig

Nope, I'll be dead long before that ever happens. And hopefully, I will not die alone.

daswig

Yup, and they've rescinded the Fatwa against Rushdie, too.

So the Taliban isn't still fighting in Afghanistan to regain power? And WHY is the Taliban no longer the government of Afghanistan? It's because we kicked them out. "Al Queda" was NOT "created" by the CIA. They received some funding and training for use against the Soviets. And of course you don't see the relevance of anything that doesn't support your position in this thread.

I've never said that ALL muslims do. Some, however, indisputably do.

Then why doesn't mainstream Islam get together and denounce and edit out the homicidal parts of the book? As for meeting muslims, I have, and I still prefer to keep my cocked and locked sidearm handy when interacting with them. Of course, I do that when I interact with Christians, too...

jonjon42

why don't us christians edit out the homicidal portions of the bible...
I don't think the religions are that different. I still here stories of people beating the crap out of other people for being gay.

A small vocal minority can easily drown out the majority. Radicalism is borne out of poor education and poor living conditions. Maybe, just maybe it wouldn't matter what religion these people are. As long as alot of these people are living in these poor condition, they will take up these radical causes. (I admit I only really know this applies in Palestine, but I'm sure other muslim countries have their share of slums)

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daswig

That's actually a rather recent development. Until recently, nobody thought homosexuality was anything other than deviance. That's why until the DSM-IV came out, homosexuality was officially classified as a mental disorder.

Now, let's take the crucifixion's "blood libel". For centuries, that was used as a religious bludgeon against the Jews. But that has basically gone away in modern times with regards to mainstream Christianity. In time, the anti-gay "justifications" in the Bible will also be weeded out as homosexuality becomes more widely accepted. In the Old Testament, there's a lot of stuff that modern Jews no longer believe, either. If Islam did the same thing, I think a lot of people would have a lot fewer problems with it.

DJ Happy

Put in check regarding what?

If you're refering to stoning, it does not happen in Saudi. So we're back to the the more appropriate title of this thread being, "How adultery is punished in Nigeria and Sudan."

After all, we wouldn't want to condemn Christianity based merely on the poor human rights record of the Philippines, now would we?

ophelia783

Seriously, why doesn't anything surprise me any more?

And by the way, while muslim and african women may be stoned, Indian women have gasoline poured on them and are set on fire, or have acid thrown at their faces, which permanantly disfigures them. Oh, and this is done for acts such as being raped as well, and is done by the victims' own FAMILIES, for dishonouring them.

I'm so glad to be Canadian.

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