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02-10-2005, 09:21 AM | #81 (permalink) | |
Rail Baron
Location: Tallyfla
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02-10-2005, 09:35 AM | #82 (permalink) | |
Banned
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rights, or to try to discuss the practicality of enforcing proposed restrictions, most likely because discussion exposes how un-American and arbitrary such restrictions would be in the real world. |
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02-10-2005, 10:01 AM | #83 (permalink) |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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For what it's worth, I agree with stevo except for his desire to punish abortions that occur in other countries. I don't believe that would be within our jurisdiction. Also, I disagree with his 'priest' answer; my pick would be 'doctor'. But I would, in addition, desire medical audits to determine whether abortion-performing doctors are not labeling any abortions falsely as 'medically necessary', with leeway towards the doctors in order to allow erring on the side of caution.
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
02-10-2005, 10:16 AM | #84 (permalink) | |
©
Location: Colorado
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01-23-2008, 10:58 PM | #85 (permalink) | |
Banned
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Well...it has been a while....
Over on this thread, http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=130633 there is a discussion related to whether the circumstances of men's parental rights, and obligations, are fair, or not. In post #33 on that thread, I wrote: Quote:
Isn't the best way, "to be fair", to require that all women of childbearing age have weekly or bi-monthly "pregnancy screenings", with results officially certified and "on file", available to inspection, for the sake of "fairness", whether abortions in a given jurisdiction are legally permitted, or not? If they are legally performed, the purpose of the mandatory, regular pregnancy screenings would be to satisfy the "fairness" requirement in maintianing male parental rights. All a potential father would need to keep tabs on the results of his sexual couplings, would be the full names, and maybe a pregnancy screening client reference number, of his recent partners. Under such a mandate, a woman would be much less likely to be pregnant without her partner having an opportunity to attempt to prohibit her from terminating her pregnancy without him having his say, and hopefully a court hearing where he could attempt to convince an impartial magistrate of his fitness and financial soundness, so an intervention could be accomplished to maintain the pregnancy to allow him to become a father. If, in a given jurisdiction, abortion was prohibited by law, this same mandatory, frequent pregnancy screening would serve to "lock down", women of considerable financial means to leave an abortion restricted jursidiction, to bring fairness to an abortion prohibition that would much more likely make legal, clinical abortion only beyond the reach of women of limited financial means. The frequent screenings would require any woman who tested pregnant, and then subsequently tested negative, to explain to enforcement authorities, how the pregnancy ended. All women would then be legally accountable. It seems fair to me, but kind of restrictive for advocates of abortion restriction who otherwise strongly favor less government intervention and regulation, not more.... ....or is all of it, either not thought completely through, or just absolutely fucking absurd, because we are in the US of A, and it is 2008? Last edited by host; 01-23-2008 at 11:00 PM.. |
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01-23-2008, 11:15 PM | #86 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'd have been happy with "When a woman gets an abortion, the father is notified." or "When the father wants the child, and the mother doesn't, the father is given the option to be put on an adoption list." in the other thread. State sponsored pregnancy screenings? Heh, no thanks.
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01-23-2008, 11:23 PM | #87 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I am always perplexed about the hypocrasy of the whole pro-life/pro capital punishment and the pro-choice/anti death penalty.
Isn't life, life? If you claim it is wrong to have an abortion because it is murder is not capital punishment murder and since most people who are in this class are religious, does not the Bible say Jesus says "Vengeance is mine"? But the case for the other side makes no sense either. Isn't death death? Aren't both in essence murder? I don't know just an observation. Me? I'm pro-choice, pro-capital punishment. I believe that if we allow one we must allow the other. Or if we ban one we must ban the other.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
01-23-2008, 11:39 PM | #88 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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01-23-2008, 11:59 PM | #89 (permalink) | |||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Barclay Newman and Eugene Nida, in their excellent Translator's Handbook on Paul's Letter to the Romans (New York: United Bible Societies, 1973, page 242), write regarding Rom 12:19: Quote:
Also found at the same site is: Quote:
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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01-24-2008, 11:35 AM | #90 (permalink) | |
Insane
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Personally, I see the government, particularly in a democracy, as an extension of its citizens. Thus I see this reasoning as a form of collective evasion of responsibility. Thus I can't condone this approach to the problem. |
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01-24-2008, 11:46 AM | #91 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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The motivation behind the expansion of drug laws was also initially economic, but is now primarily political.
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Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions |
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01-24-2008, 02:37 PM | #92 (permalink) |
Insane
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Economic arguments for or against abortion can be made easily enough. One can point out the fact that unwanted children, or more importantly children born to those without the capacity to properly care for them, can often pose more burden then benefit (economically). Simplistic calculations of the number of abortions times the average productivity of a citizen are meaningless. Many abortions don't cut into population at all: many women have abortions, particularly at younger ages, and then go on to have a family. Even if the numbers are the same it is true that planned families result in a greater chance the children will be more productive citizens than impromptu families.
However, I believe the motivation for both banning or allowing abortion is not primarily economic, but a more broad social motivation. The question is social stability, of which economic stability is a component but not the only major component. |
01-24-2008, 07:04 PM | #93 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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Prison is to protect society from dangerous men. The death penalty is to protect prisoners - and guards - from dangerous men. That's a much better argument in my opinion. Though I'm still against the death penalty myself.
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. |
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01-25-2008, 01:01 PM | #94 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
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"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln Last edited by n0nsensical; 01-25-2008 at 01:16 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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editorial, prolife, responding, start, thinking |
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