"the administration had violated a law against unauthorized federal propaganda" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

host · 01-09-2005, 01:08 AM

Post your reaction to the disclosure that a prominent syndicated TV host did not disclose to viewers for more than a year that his coverage of Bush's
"No Child Left Behind Act" (NCLB) and administration policies related to it, was an obligation that he had agreed to carry out because he accepted more
than $240,000 to do so from the Bush administration.

If Bush's NCLB act was good policy, why did the administration feel the need
to sell it; in this case to the black community, via an expensive PR agency
that, among other things, made hefty, undisclosed payments to a black
syndicated TV host, who then publicized and promoted NCLB as if he was
vouching for it on it's merits alone ?

Quote:

<h3>TV Host Says U.S. Paid Him to Back Policy</h3>
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK Published: January 8, 2005

Armstrong Williams, a prominent conservative commentator who was a protégé of Senator Strom Thurmond and Justice Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court, acknowledged yesterday that he was paid $240,000 by the Department of Education to promote its initiatives on his syndicated television program and to other African-Americans in the news media..............

.......The disclosure about the arrangement coincides with a decision by the Government Accountability Office that the administration had violated a law against unauthorized federal propaganda by distributing television news segments that promoted drug enforcement policies without identifying their origin. More than 300 news programs reaching more than 22 million households broadcast the segments. The accountability office made a similar ruling in May about news segments promoting Medicare policies, and the Drug Enforcement Agency stopped distributing the segments then. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/08/national/08education.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/08/national/08education.html</a>
or <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=TV+Host+Says+U.S.+Paid+Him+to+Back+Policy+kirkpatrick&btnG=Search">here</a>

And.....over at the Pentagon, a debate rages about information management:

Quote:

<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/13/MNGOEAB3HR1.DTL">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/13/MNGOEAB3HR1.DTL</a>
Critics of the proposals say such deception could shatter the Pentagon's credibility, leaving the U.S. public and a world audience skeptical of anything the Defense Department and military say -- a repeat of the credibility gap that roiled America during the Vietnam War..........
.................The fervent debate today is focused most directly on a secret order signed by Rumsfeld late last year and called "Information Operations Roadmap." The 74-page directive, which remains classified but was described by officials who had read it, accelerated "a plan to advance the goal of information operations as a core military competency."

Noting the complexities and risks, Rumsfeld ordered studies to clarify the appropriate relationship between Pentagon and military public affairs -- whose job is to educate and inform the public with accurate and timely information -- and the practitioners of secret psychological operations and information campaigns to influence or deter or confuse adversaries. .......

If you can point out a better comparison than what is contained in
the link below to what has been disclosed in the past four years relating to
the methods and the content of the Bush administration's unprecedented
attempts to communicate it's policies and agenda to the American people,
and to the world, I'll apologize to other forum members and delete the
following link:
<a href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4433.htm">Propaganda: Did Goebbells Write The Bush Administrations speeches?</a>

and, unfortunately, this comparison. too:

Quote:

<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm">http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm</a>
Within the first months after that terrorist attack, at the suggestion of a political advisor, he brought a formerly obscure word into common usage. He wanted to stir a "racial pride" among his countrymen, so, instead of referring to the nation by its name, he began to refer to it as "The Homeland,

ObieX · 01-09-2005, 03:05 AM

There are many reasons why this administration has been pushing to make government more secretive. Now you know why. I'm sure there's many many other things going on similar, or worse, then this that we don't know about. Remember our shadow government? Haven't heard much about it since 9/11, but its more than likely still going strong. I wonder if th next democrat administration will be let into this shadow government or if they'll not be told about it and it'll keep chugging along in the shadows.

Kadath · 01-09-2005, 08:14 AM

Any teacher will tell you that NCLB is an underfunded failure, unless they are being paid by the administration to support it, I guess.

host, you KNOW what will happen when you post things like the Goebbels link. You have invoked Godwin's Law, and now everyone who would have had to try to defend the payola will instead point out how crazy the Goebbels thing is and the real issue will be lost. And ditto to ObieX, with crazy conspiracy theories. No one will talk about the main issue, everyone will get bogged down in the kooky stuff.

ObieX · 01-09-2005, 08:25 AM

Its not a crazy conspiracy theory that we have a shadow government. It is also not a crazy conspiracy that the Bush administration has been pushing and pushing hard for more secrecy in our government. This most especially includes Dick Cheney. This is what has been and is happening. The only thing that could be considered a conspiracy theory is the part at the end i included about being skepticle about hte disclosure of the shadow government to any future non-republican administration.

roachboy · 01-09-2005, 09:12 AM

when you say "shadow government" i assume that you are not simply making a curious plato joke (via "the laws"---the "night conspiracy" if i remember) but are talking about the residumm of the national security state? maybe the questions of paranoia could be reduced if you were more specific......

i would love to see the "information operations roadmap"....i really would....

edit: searching things is sometimes helpful.
this site is something of a small motherlode in this regard.

http://www.iwar.org.uk/iwar/

the main documents are downloads.
i am not sure if any of them are the "roadmap" referenced above, but this will nonetheless give a good overview of the assumptions that shape how "information superiority" is understood in dod-land....what is a bit curious is the extent to which this particular understanding of "opinion management"--worked out as a function of thinking information as a seperate military theater of operations---could be linked to questions like selling an obviously bankrupt educational policy.

unless the bush administration understands everything it does in military terms.....

host · 01-09-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kadath

Any teacher will tell you that NCLB is an underfunded failure, unless they are being paid by the administration to support it, I guess.

host, you KNOW what will happen when you post things like the Goebbels link. You have invoked Godwin's Law, and now everyone who would have had to try to defend the payola will instead point out how crazy the Goebbels thing is and the real issue will be lost. And ditto to ObieX, with crazy conspiracy theories. No one will talk about the main issue, everyone will get bogged down in the kooky stuff.

I understand what you are saying, but under the circumstances that the
current administration's record and agenda have put our country in, coupled
with the tip of the iceberg that is revealed about their future plans for us and
the rest of the world, I know of no better way to compare what they are
doing than to cite the methods and rhetoric of the last super power that was
so zealously and misguidedly bent on policies of pre-emptive war driven
by corporate controlled propagandists passing themselves off as popularly
elected officials.

Too shortsighted and self absorbed to recognize that the Geneva Convention,
and their own credibility are reliable means to protect our troops in war, and to encourage the support of citizens and allies, the incompetent, greedy,
idealogues who run the psy-op referred to as the "Bush administration",
these thugs are undermining the constitutional government that they swear
to "protect and preserve", while they line the pockets of their corporate
controllers. Our neighbors and family members offer this fourth reich their
full support, and pray for their success, even as Bushco's efforts have
already destroyed the essense of what so many have sacraficed so much to
create and maintain. Our credibility and humane example was what seperated
us from totalitarian antagonists.

No words or examples are too strong to protest their outrageous sell out.
The sensitivities of the Bushco appologists are not my concern. I have no
hope of reaching them. What is left to do now is to energize those who see
what is happening, but underestimate the potential of the Bushco to destroy
our country and the world.

roachboy · 01-09-2005, 10:11 AM

http://www.militarycity.com/iraq/1631270.html

here is a copy of the dod guidlines for reporters in bed with the military.
seems germaine.

Willravel · 01-09-2005, 01:27 PM

God Bless America. You know, peoplee forget that it's okay to love your country, but hate your goverment. Maybe this will serve to remind people of what patriotism really means.

ObieX · 01-09-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

when you say "shadow government" i assume that you are not simply making a curious plato joke

No. By telling you there is a shadow government I am TELLING YOU there is a SHADOW GOVERNMENT. This is not something that is conspiracy. This was flat out TOLd to us by both the president and vice president after 9/11. And no I'm no just referring to the contingency "bunker government". If you want more info simply type in "shadow government" in google.

j8ear · 01-09-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kadath

Any teacher will tell you that NCLB is an underfunded failure, unless they are being paid by the administration to support it, I guess.

I know at least 15 teachers (one is my wife and another my mother in law) who do not buy into your lie Kadath. None of them is being paid by anyone.

They do however know a diaper load of teacher's union pukes and public school administrators who do. In fact it is the union pukes and 3 to 1 administration staff that are most frightened by this federal mandate holding them accountable for the disgusting and abominable education they are subjecting our children to. It isn't the well off who suffer they can go to private schools and guess what they do. It is the under-priveldged and minorities who suffer most since their CHOICE has been taken away.

To the issue at hand.

1. The DOE has been a disgrace for a long time. This doesn't make them any more of a disgrace. Just reinforces the disgrace that they are. Did you know that the DOE has bureaucrats who are permitted to carry firearms and do so on AIRCRAFT? WTF? We quibble about arming pilots, yet the DOE has armed employees on commercial aircraft? The DOE???? Who's running this asylum?

2. Every proposal that has ever come from any administration or legislator has been sold. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. You will in the very near future be sold Social Security reform.

3. The biggest problem here is Armstrong Williams. He has lost all credibility and journalistic integrity. He violated the golden rule of journalism. Full disclosure. He should walk the journalistic plank. Career over.

A quick shout out to Senator Kennedy and President Bush for getting the NCLB act passed. I'm some what embarrassed that you needed to buy off some sack of shit hack to sell your platform, but thank you both for getting it done. It was largely an unconstitutional waste of tax payers money like most everything that comes out of DC...but at least they cared enough to try something. That can't be said for ANY OTHER politician in my lifetime on the subject of education.

-bear

j8ear · 01-09-2005, 08:48 PM

I want to reiterate very quickly that everything you see from your government, no matter where you live is propaganda. The words used to describe things are carefully screened, and focus group tested.

Private accounts will be referred to as personal accounts. with regards to SS. Estate tax is now called the "DEATH TAX," pro-abortion is called pro-choice....etc....etc...etc...

Ad campaigns are launched, PR firms consulted, speech writers enlisted, focus groups probed, and yes, commentators paid off and coached EVERY SINGLE day of the week.

I don't condone or sanction the practice, but the sudden disdain and attribution of wrong doing expressed by the usual clan of hate filled anti-bush contributors is little, how should I say, grasping at straws for reasons to justify your hatred.

-bear

tellumFS · 01-09-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

pro-abortion is called pro-choice.

This...is not entirely true. It is possible, indeed the norm, I'd say, that a pro-choice person is NOT "pro-abortion". It's a line, but it's there.

OFKU0 · 01-11-2005, 10:17 AM

Bush administration paid columnist to push its agenda

Last Updated Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:22:03 EST

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration paid Armstrong Williams, a prominent Washington columnist, to promote its education policy, possibly violating U.S. law.

Williams has admitted taking money in return for spotlighting the so-called No Child Left Behind education initiative.

A number of federal laws prohibit taxpayer money being used to influence public opinion.

The story broke in USA Today's weekend edition, which followed a Freedom of Information request.

Williams received $240,000 U.S. for his help through a public-relations firm hired by the Education Department.

The White House has referred questions on the matter to the Education Department, whose spokesman said the Williams contract followed standard guidelines.

Williams now says he regrets taking the contract.

"It's important that I have a credible voice and that I'm not perceived as being paid for what I say," he said in an interview with USA Today that was published Monday.

"This is my responsibility. I blame no one. I get the message, and I will be better."

In addition to being a newspaper columnist, Williams is also a television and radio host, and appears regularly as a pundit on other programs.

As part of his deal with the Bush administration, he was paid to convince other journalists that they should write about No Child Left Behind as well.

The syndicate that distributes his column, Tribune Media Services, has terminated its relationship with Williams.

"Readers may well ask themselves if the views expressed in his columns are his own, or whether they have been purchased by a third party," the company said in a statement.

Several members of Congress are asking for an investigation into the matter.

At least one public-interest group, People For the American Way, is calling on Williams to hand back the cash.

"It's the taxpayers' money given out illegally," said the group's president, Ralph Neas.

But Williams says he will not do so. "That would be ludicrous," he said, "because they bought advertising, and they got it."

The payment may contravene the Anti-Lobbying Act of 1919 and the Anti-Deficiency Act of 1906. In addition, Congress routinely adds provisions to appropriations bills forbidding the use of federal funds for "propaganda purposes" within the U.S.

http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/ar...ong050110.html

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CBS fires four employees over Bush service-record story

Last Updated Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:12:10 EST

NEW YORK - CBS fired three executives and a producer Monday, after the release of an independent investigation into a story on 60 Minutes that negatively portrayed U.S. President George W. Bush's military service and relied on dubious documents.

The American network fired Mary Mapes, who produced the report; Josh Howard, the executive producer of 60 Minutes Wednesday; senior broadcast producer Mary Murphy; and senior vice president Betsy West.

The news segment, which aired Sept. 8 during the U.S. presidential campaign, relied on four documents allegedly written in the early 1970s by the late Lt.-Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's Texas Air National Guard commanders. The story suggested that Bush had used his father's political connections to get into the Air National Guard – and avoid going to Vietnam – and had not fulfilled his service obligations.

A number of officials and members of the public raised questions about the authenticity of the documents almost immediately after the show aired, but CBS News continued to defend the story for almost two weeks.

"The bottom line is that much of the Sept. 8 broadcast was wrong, incomplete or unfair," Les Moonves, CBS president and co-president of parent company Viacom, said in a statement.

"We deeply regret the disservice this flawed 60 Minutes Wednesday report did to the American public, which has a right to count on CBS News for fairness and accuracy," he said.

RELATED STORY: CBS apologizes for using Bush service memos

'Myopic zeal,' 'rigid and blind defense' compounded problem: Independent report
The firings came after Monday's release of a 224-page independent report by a two-man panel comprising Dick Thornburgh, the former U.S. attorney general, and Louis Boccardi, the former CEO and president of the Associated Press. In late September, CBS had commissioned the panel to conduct a review of the situation.

"Both the Sept. 8 segment itself and the statements and news reports by CBS News that followed the segment failed to meet" the core journalistic principles of accuracy and fairness that CBS expects from its personnel, read the report.

While Thornburgh and Boccardi did not conclude whether the "Killian documents are authentic or forgeries," it did identify "a number of issues that raise serious questions about the authenticity of the documents and their content. With better reporting, these questions should have been raised before the Sept. 8 segment aired."

The report cited the involved parties' "myopic zeal to be the first news organization to broadcast what was believed to be a new story about President Bush's [Texas Air National Guard] service."

The issue was then compounded by "the rigid and blind defense of the segment after it aired despite numerous indications of its shortcomings," the report said.

Panel's recommendations
The panel also recommended a number of changes, including:

Appoint a senior standards and practices executive, reporting directly to the president of CBS News, who would review all investigative reporting, use of confidential sources and authentication of documents. Personnel should feel comfortable going to this person confidentially and without fear of reprisal, with questions or concerns about particular reports.
Foster an atmosphere in which competitive pressure is not allowed to prompt airing of reports before all investigation and vetting is done.
Allow senior management to know the names of confidential sources as well as all relevant background about the person needed to make news judgments.
Appoint a separate team, led by someone not involved in the original reporting, to look into any news report that is challenged.

News anchor Dan Rather, who was the correspondent on the story, announced in November that he would be stepping down as anchor of CBS Evening News, but he insisted that the timing had nothing to do with the investigation.

Given the televised apology Rather offered after the fiasco and his announcement about stepping down, Moonves said further action against Rather was not warranted.

http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/ar...ngs050110.html
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So what's going on here. The president pays some journalist to filter the administrations agenda to the masses while CBS fires journalists because of a made up story?

If those fired purposely used their medium to disparage Bush I agree with the firings. But what about the puppet for Bush? Should he not be fired? Why should we believe what he reported wasn't lies coming out of the White House regarding the education policies? What's the difference? And further, who else has been hired by the government as their anonymous voice(s) until revealed?

Superbelt · 01-11-2005, 10:46 AM

This isn't the first time the Admin has had to admit to the misappropriation of taxpayer dollars to shill a favored bush program either.
Williams also alluded to many more journalists being on the WH payroll to pimp various Admin policies.
That's millions of dollars of our money being funnelled into paying to propagandize american.

Nothing will happen to them anyway.
What Bush Worry?

Mephisto2 · 01-11-2005, 02:28 PM

I'm not surprised.

Though, to be fair, I'm sure the Democrats would do the same.

Media spin and paid influence are more common that one may think.

Mr Mephisto

Coppertop · 01-11-2005, 02:39 PM

I am not suprised at all by this. Anyone see the Daily Show bit on this last night? Funny stuff.

Willravel · 01-11-2005, 02:50 PM

Just another example to cite when people tell me our media isn't swayed by politics. Also just another reason to pay better attention to non-corprate funded news.

roachboy · 01-11-2005, 03:54 PM

well, 200k at least explains one guy's support for obviously bankrupt policies.
wonder how much limbaugh gets.....
it is like payola but bigger.

if any confirmation was necessary, this seems yet another strong argument for not limiting your information to a single country of origin....

pan6467 · 01-11-2005, 04:20 PM

Let's see.....

Clinton... tried by the GOP for lying about having oral sex in the Oval Office with an Intern (THAT HURT NOONE ELSE IN THE NATION) appologizes and takes all blame.... gave last minute pardons to questionable people takes blame admits some of the pardons were wrong BLAMES NOONE ELSE.....called everything under the Sun by people like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Drudge, Coulter and so on. Fox News hounding his every move.

Bush..... Got away with Lying about the reason for war in Iraq (blames bad intel) 1000's injured and killed,.... gets away with Haliburton overcharging troops for fuel and reieving monies for items never supplied blames noone denies it happened even though proof is there, .... gets away with Patriot Acts 1 and probably 2 (giving the gov't more control and laws in our lives) excuses all infringes calling opposition "unpatriotic, friends of terrorists" by saying it is for national defense...... gets away with holding people indefinately giving them no rights at all,..... gets away with allowing the military to give cruel and unusual punishments (AND ALLOWS THEM TO PHOTOGRAPH THE ACTS) blames the military brass,...... allows a SGT. to kill 2 POWs (letting them drown) and giving him a wrist slap punishment blames the military brass,..... gets caught illegally paying newscasters to promote his propaganda and blames the department..... allows VP and US SCJ (Scalia) to use taxpayers monies to fraternize and go hunting together when there is a case pending in the SCOJ against the VP..... Allows private companies to sit in on and make policy on energy, and refuses to make public any record (even though all meetings were paid with tax dollars AND affect public policy)...... makes enemies of old allies, turns world sympathy for us and 9/11 into world hatred (turns back on his international leader allies as he watches them get voted out of office or decide to pull out of Iraq)..... gives tax cuts while running up the highest deficits ever..... allows N. Korea and Iran to go on with their Nuke programs yet claims they are enemies,.... allows jobs to be sent to unfriendly nations, ..... etc etc etc etc etc.... CBS gets crucified for IMO a setup of false reports (yes, I believe that Bush's friends gave the papers out and then went full bore to show them fakes, but that is a different argument, for a different thread)

Hmmmm Clinton wasn't so bad after all.

Bush wipes his hands of things, claims no knowledge, blames others or ignores all together.

God only knows how truly evil this admin. is. How badly they have abused anything they could to keep the power and control anything they could.

Why should this Williams deal surprise anyone? I'm sure by 2008 and after there will be so much more come out that Watergate will look like jaywalking compared to what Bush and Co. has done.

Willravel · 01-11-2005, 07:18 PM

Bush will get away scott free because 51% won't care. 51% of America will be 100% responsible for this in history's eye. I wonder what 51% will let the next Republicanazi do.

mike059 · 01-11-2005, 08:40 PM

Don't worry, Newt Gingrich will clean it all up in 2008...

Konichiwaneko · 01-11-2005, 09:05 PM

it's only wrong if bush does it.

Can anyone answer this honestly, those articles that were writen by the people influenced by the guy that was brige, were they all praises for no child left behind? I just want to see if so or not.

I'll agree with most of you guys, bribary mostly with tax payer dollars is pretty henious and wrong. I'm not blind enough by my politics to disagree with that, but I also know media slander and its ability to make a situation seem like something else.

The article can easily be taken for what it says, that the money was put as a advertisement campaign. No where did it say that those who wrote articles about No Child Left behind had to write propaganda about it, only that they write about it. This to me does seem like exactly as it is, "Advertisement"

Willravel · 01-11-2005, 09:23 PM

The money spent on propoganda was trying to change public opinion of a very poor program. The money could have gone to buy textbooks or renew a teachers contract. I say don't form an opinion about NCLB until you read it yourself. The department of Education probably has a copy.

Konichiwaneko · 01-11-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

The money spent on propoganda was trying to change public opinion of a very poor program. The money could have gone to buy textbooks or renew a teachers contract. I say don't form an opinion about NCLB until you read it yourself. The department of Education probably has a copy.

Money could always be better spent if you think it's not doing what you need for it.

Hell the government has spent $250,000 on turnip research. It's argueable about the good and bad. Pork barrel spending is here to stay.

I don't like putting obscene amounts of money to education anyways, ga spends $13000 per child a year and we are 48th in the US...how does that work?

Also I agree with you, but if you can show me those articles written by those influenced writers, I would love to see if they are subjective or objective.

shakran · 01-11-2005, 09:42 PM

well from my perspective, the 4 people at CBS should have been fired. Not because of WHAT the story was, but because of their methods. One of the most important functions of the press is to serve as a watchdog against the powerful. The only way we can do that is to have the public trust. We break that, they don't listen when we find out about stuff the powerful is pulling, and we can't fulfill our main job of holding the powerful accountable for their actions. Those 4 broke the public trust, and hurt not only their network but all of their affiliates and in fact ALL news stations across the country.

BTW I also feel Rather should have been fired. He certainly shouldn't be allowed to transfer to working on an investigative news show after he showed how much he helped botch that investigation.

As for Mr. Williams, he can't be fired because he owns the company that employs him - Right Side Media. He writes a syndicated column which is run by several newspapers - they don't employ him, they just contract with him to run his columns. Actually they contract with a syndicate, which sends them his columns.

One of the biggest syndicates involved with him is Tribune Media Services, which has terminated their contract with him "effective immediately."

That of course means newspapers don't HAVE to drop his column since many of them are now not going to recieve it anyway - and if I had to guess, they're not exactly going to be motivated to try and pick it up again.

Superbelt · 01-12-2005, 04:30 AM

Quote:

I don't like putting obscene amounts of money to education anyways, ga spends $13000 per child a year and we are 48th in the US...how does that work?

Unequal distribution.

ARTelevision · 01-12-2005, 05:12 AM

IMO, the worst (legal) thing about this country is the Media - including both its rightist and leftist incarnations. In all its forms from infotainment to entertainment, it is simply a titanic diseased prostitute. Its size, content, and influence could be reduced by 90% and we'd be the better for it.

Kadath · 01-12-2005, 05:34 AM

Amen, ART. I love the idea of a free and open press, but the sensational nature of journalism and the 24 hour news networks have really gone astray.

Kadath · 01-12-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

I know at least 15 teachers (one is my wife and another my mother in law) who do not buy into your lie Kadath. None of them is being paid by anyone.

They do however know a diaper load of teacher's union pukes and public school administrators who do. In fact it is the union pukes and 3 to 1 administration staff that are most frightened by this federal mandate holding them accountable for the disgusting and abominable education they are subjecting our children to. It isn't the well off who suffer they can go to private schools and guess what they do. It is the under-priveldged and minorities who suffer most since their CHOICE has been taken away.

Kisses, j8ear. It's been a while since we locked horns.

I do a lot of work at schools. I would estimate I've been at ten different school districts in the past twelve months. While at those schools, I talk to a lot of teachers as part of my job, probably fifteen to twenty at each district. It has been my universal experience that the teachers "buy into my lie," in that when I ask them "What do you think of NCLB?" I get an immediate negative response. I guess many of them may be "union pukes" but I don't ask to see their membership card before I speak to them.

Konichiwaneko · 01-12-2005, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Unequal distribution.

Heh superbelt there's no way to convince you of the otherside so I'll let other people post.

Superbelt · 01-12-2005, 06:07 AM

Wow, that's rude, and uncalled for.
I'd love to see any information you have that education dollars in Georgia are in any way fairly distributed. But this thread isn't meant to go that direction.

jb2000 · 01-12-2005, 07:31 AM

So let me ask folks...

Where is the incentive to run a nationally broadcast news program that seeks to deliver factual reporting and investigation along with providing viewers with broad perspective on the matters of the day?

Those who already have their minds made up will blast you for being in the pocket of the opposite side. Under barrage for being biased by these groups, when you do screw something up (and you will...it's the nature of the beast), it will be viewed as evidence to this end and to destroy your credibility.

Why not just put infotainment up there that caters to one of the political camps: 'right', 'left', or 'hate-em-all'?

We can talk until we are blue in the face about media's responsibility to the people and such, but in reality, we can't expect them to do it out of the goodness of their hearts alone. We need to provide an environment where those who choose to report responsibly are rewarded and prosper.

Josh

martinguerre · 01-12-2005, 08:20 AM

i'll add another story to the pile...my mother teaches English as a second language at the High School level. NCLB hasn't helped her department an ounce, and has just encouraged more funding drain to other programs.

Union pukes? I'm sorry...if that many union teachers are against it, then it means that teachers as a whole are against it. I'd ask you to take that back, since you are talking about my mother. I won't hold my breath, tho.

roachboy · 01-12-2005, 09:34 AM

union pukes?
jesus......
it is customary for the far right to blame everything on the teachers union.
this is obviously no different.
no child left behind is in the main a sad farce.
like most other parallel initiatives, this attempts to address the "problems" of public education by dancing around the central matter of the degree to which the educational system reproduces the class structure, which leads directly to the question of funding, its origins and allocation---instead you get the usual rightwing nonsense based on the illusion of equality, the illusion of a "level playing field"
standardized testing is a sad joke. nothing about it teaches students to think. all it really does is bends teaching toward standardized tests. it is a sop for those who bewail the "collapse of traditional standards"--a set of moans which seems to come almost exclusively from folk who were themselves mediocre students. i dont get it.

maybe the idea is that if you keep programs in place that impose a conservative worldview as if it was natural on students for long enough, maybe there will come a point when folk produced by this system might support the bankrupt policies of the bush administration and its ilk without having to be paid off to do it. why not--the positions are untenable if defended at the level of argument.....

uncle_el · 01-12-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

3. The biggest problem here is Armstrong Williams. He has lost all credibility and journalistic integrity. He violated the golden rule of journalism. Full disclosure. He should walk the journalistic plank. Career over.

armstrong williams does not claim to be a journalist, but rather a commenator:

Quote:

"It's a fine line," he told The Associated Press on Friday. "Even though I'm not a journalist -- I'm a commentator -- I feel I should be held to the media ethics standard. My judgment was not the best. I wouldn't do it again, and I learned from it."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/...journalist.ap/

don't get me wrong, i agree with your sentiment. i was just surprised when i read that comment from him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

I'd love to see any information you have that education dollars in Georgia are in any way fairly distributed. But this thread isn't meant to go that direction.

me too. living in atlanta, but my mom is a school nurse manager (for about 10 schools) in north fulton county... there's a big disparity to say the least between northern fulton county and southern fulton county.

pan6467 · 01-12-2005, 02:39 PM

Union pukes.... that is laughable. The GOP has power and yet they still blame blame blame others for what they say they will do, knowing full well they won't, because it is easier for them to bribe, hide behind curtains and blame fall guys for their unwillingness to better the nation.

j8ear · 01-12-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

I'd ask you to take that back, since you are talking about my mother. I won't hold my breath, tho.

I wouldn't hold your breath either.

When I spoke of "UNION PUKES" I wasn't speaking of teachers who are members of the union (like my wife and mother-in-law, or your mother) but the beauracracy of NON-EDUCATORS WHO ARE THE UNION, who care little if at all about educating children, and instead focus exclusively on more money. Which they've proven time and again rarely finds it's way into classrooms, or has any correlation to the quality of education received by students what so ever.

I also want to point out, again, that the NCLB act was championed, and shepharded to fruition, by both GWB and his arch nemesis in the Senate, Edward Kennedy. Unlikely at is seems success AND failure MUST be attributed to both in equal numbers.

Regardless, as I've already mentioned it is unconstitutional legislation, which, as with practically every "act" produced in DC is and will be a complete and utter failure. Alas, once again, props to Kennedy and Bush for trying something to improve education. NO ONE else, Commie or Neo-Con, democrat or republican has done or even attempted a daggone thing in my lifetime.

I like accountability, and if it needs to be paid for by paring school administrators down to a more reasonable ratio (beaurocrat-teacher), say 2-1, or heaven forbid 1-1, so be it. Closing down crappy schools, or firing unproductive beaurocrats or unsuccessful teachers, in spite of the union-pukes objections is STILL a good thing in my book. Quality teachers welcome the measures, suddenly accountable beaurocrats, and along for the ride teachers fear it greatly.

To the issue at hand, and once again, this is an problem which falls squarely on the shoulders of Armstrong Williams. He exercised poor judgement, should have anticipated this end result, and should meet his maker career wise for it.

This is nothing new from a federal government perspective, and will change nothing from a federal government perspective.

All of you democrat and republican sheep worship at the alter of a politician who has done exactly the same thing.

-bear

j8ear · 01-12-2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kadath

Kisses, j8ear. It's been a while since we locked horns.

Back at ya buddy....

Konichiwaneko · 01-12-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Wow, that's rude, and uncalled for.
I'd love to see any information you have that education dollars in Georgia are in any way fairly distributed. But this thread isn't meant to go that direction.

It's not meant to be rude, but it's in your history on this forum. Even if I bring something up to support it something will be wrong with it.

I agree, it's not suppose to be on this forum and that's why I digressed.

I'll see if I can find some information about money distrubution in GA, just don't see how this would effect anything since ultimately Superbelt and I seem to agree on something but I find I have to prove it. What I mean about that is I don't like the NCLB act...and I would swear superbelt would of disliked it also.

pan6467 · 01-12-2005, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8ear

I wouldn't hold your breath either.

When I spoke of "UNION PUKES" I wasn't speaking of teachers who are members of the union (like my wife and mother-in-law, or your mother) but the beauracracy of NON-EDUCATORS WHO ARE THE UNION, who care little if at all about educating children, and instead focus exclusively on more money. Which they've proven time and again rarely finds it's way into classrooms, or has any correlation to the quality of education received by students what so ever.

I also want to point out, again, that the NCLB act was championed, and shepharded to fruition, by both GWB and his arch nemesis in the Senate, Edward Kennedy. Unlikely at is seems success AND failure MUST be attributed to both in equal numbers.

Regardless, as I've already mentioned it is unconstitutional legislation, which, as with practically every "act" produced in DC is and will be a complete and utter failure. Alas, once again, props to Kennedy and Bush for trying something to improve education. NO ONE else, Commie or Neo-Con, democrat or republican has done or even attempted a daggone thing in my lifetime.

I like accountability, and if it needs to be paid for by paring school administrators down to a more reasonable ratio (beaurocrat-teacher), say 2-1, or heaven forbid 1-1, so be it. Closing down crappy schools, or firing unproductive beaurocrats or unsuccessful teachers, in spite of the union-pukes objections is STILL a good thing in my book. Quality teachers welcome the measures, suddenly accountable beaurocrats, and along for the ride teachers fear it greatly.

To the issue at hand, and once again, this is an problem which falls squarely on the shoulders of Armstrong Williams. He exercised poor judgement, should have anticipated this end result, and should meet his maker career wise for it.

This is nothing new from a federal government perspective, and will change nothing from a federal government perspective.

All of you democrat and republican sheep worship at the alter of a politician who has done exactly the same thing.

-bear

You make good points. I do believe in accountability and I do believe in cutting waste.

I wish to say that I believe what Kennedy and Bush worked for was in theory a great plan. However, I question the sincerity of Bush in truly getting it done.

I think what happened was Bush got Kennedy to write a truly good bill, Bush supported it in public then high ranked GOP congressmen tore it apart in private and worked to destroy it.

I also believe that the Dems. could have done more to keep the bill close to the original but decided it would make Bush look good and therefore decided to destroy it on their end.

I do think that perhaps both Bush and Kennedy tried hard to come up with a bi-partisan plan, but as all too often happens (at least for the past decade or so), both parties saw the other party as maybe getting more credit and therefore the bill and the betterment of the country came in second to the petty political games that go on.

What is sad is neither party is trying to correct this instead they would rather blame each other.... I find it easy to do so. The reason is much like this board. One side may have good ideas and yet the other side will shred the author to pieces and destroy the thread instead of allowing for compromise.

01-09-2005, 03:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	There are many reasons why this administration has been pushing to make government more secretive. Now you know why. I'm sure there's many many other things going on similar, or worse, then this that we don't know about. Remember our shadow government? Haven't heard much about it since 9/11, but its more than likely still going strong. I wonder if th next democrat administration will be let into this shadow government or if they'll not be told about it and it'll keep chugging along in the shadows. __________________ We Must Dissent.

01-09-2005, 08:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Any teacher will tell you that NCLB is an underfunded failure, unless they are being paid by the administration to support it, I guess. host, you KNOW what will happen when you post things like the Goebbels link. You have invoked Godwin's Law, and now everyone who would have had to try to defend the payola will instead point out how crazy the Goebbels thing is and the real issue will be lost. And ditto to ObieX, with crazy conspiracy theories. No one will talk about the main issue, everyone will get bogged down in the kooky stuff. __________________ it's quiet in here

01-09-2005, 08:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Its not a crazy conspiracy theory that we have a shadow government. It is also not a crazy conspiracy that the Bush administration has been pushing and pushing hard for more secrecy in our government. This most especially includes Dick Cheney. This is what has been and is happening. The only thing that could be considered a conspiracy theory is the part at the end i included about being skepticle about hte disclosure of the shadow government to any future non-republican administration. __________________ We Must Dissent.

01-09-2005, 09:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	when you say "shadow government" i assume that you are not simply making a curious plato joke (via "the laws"---the "night conspiracy" if i remember) but are talking about the residumm of the national security state? maybe the questions of paranoia could be reduced if you were more specific...... i would love to see the "information operations roadmap"....i really would.... edit: searching things is sometimes helpful. this site is something of a small motherlode in this regard. http://www.iwar.org.uk/iwar/ the main documents are downloads. i am not sure if any of them are the "roadmap" referenced above, but this will nonetheless give a good overview of the assumptions that shape how "information superiority" is understood in dod-land....what is a bit curious is the extent to which this particular understanding of "opinion management"--worked out as a function of thinking information as a seperate military theater of operations---could be linked to questions like selling an obviously bankrupt educational policy. unless the bush administration understands everything it does in military terms..... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-09-2005 at 09:23 AM..

01-09-2005, 10:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	http://www.militarycity.com/iraq/1631270.html here is a copy of the dod guidlines for reporters in bed with the military. seems germaine. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-09-2005, 01:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	God Bless America. You know, peoplee forget that it's okay to love your country, but hate your goverment. Maybe this will serve to remind people of what patriotism really means.

01-09-2005, 08:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	I want to reiterate very quickly that everything you see from your government, no matter where you live is propaganda. The words used to describe things are carefully screened, and focus group tested. Private accounts will be referred to as personal accounts. with regards to SS. Estate tax is now called the "DEATH TAX," pro-abortion is called pro-choice....etc....etc...etc... Ad campaigns are launched, PR firms consulted, speech writers enlisted, focus groups probed, and yes, commentators paid off and coached EVERY SINGLE day of the week. I don't condone or sanction the practice, but the sudden disdain and attribution of wrong doing expressed by the usual clan of hate filled anti-bush contributors is little, how should I say, grasping at straws for reasons to justify your hatred. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

01-11-2005, 10:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
OFKU0 Junk	Media (mis)use Bush administration paid columnist to push its agenda Last Updated Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:22:03 EST WASHINGTON - The Bush administration paid Armstrong Williams, a prominent Washington columnist, to promote its education policy, possibly violating U.S. law. Williams has admitted taking money in return for spotlighting the so-called No Child Left Behind education initiative. A number of federal laws prohibit taxpayer money being used to influence public opinion. The story broke in USA Today's weekend edition, which followed a Freedom of Information request. Williams received $240,000 U.S. for his help through a public-relations firm hired by the Education Department. The White House has referred questions on the matter to the Education Department, whose spokesman said the Williams contract followed standard guidelines. Williams now says he regrets taking the contract. "It's important that I have a credible voice and that I'm not perceived as being paid for what I say," he said in an interview with USA Today that was published Monday. "This is my responsibility. I blame no one. I get the message, and I will be better." In addition to being a newspaper columnist, Williams is also a television and radio host, and appears regularly as a pundit on other programs. As part of his deal with the Bush administration, he was paid to convince other journalists that they should write about No Child Left Behind as well. The syndicate that distributes his column, Tribune Media Services, has terminated its relationship with Williams. "Readers may well ask themselves if the views expressed in his columns are his own, or whether they have been purchased by a third party," the company said in a statement. Several members of Congress are asking for an investigation into the matter. At least one public-interest group, People For the American Way, is calling on Williams to hand back the cash. "It's the taxpayers' money given out illegally," said the group's president, Ralph Neas. But Williams says he will not do so. "That would be ludicrous," he said, "because they bought advertising, and they got it." The payment may contravene the Anti-Lobbying Act of 1919 and the Anti-Deficiency Act of 1906. In addition, Congress routinely adds provisions to appropriations bills forbidding the use of federal funds for "propaganda purposes" within the U.S. http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/ar...ong050110.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- CBS fires four employees over Bush service-record story Last Updated Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:12:10 EST NEW YORK - CBS fired three executives and a producer Monday, after the release of an independent investigation into a story on 60 Minutes that negatively portrayed U.S. President George W. Bush's military service and relied on dubious documents. The American network fired Mary Mapes, who produced the report; Josh Howard, the executive producer of 60 Minutes Wednesday; senior broadcast producer Mary Murphy; and senior vice president Betsy West. The news segment, which aired Sept. 8 during the U.S. presidential campaign, relied on four documents allegedly written in the early 1970s by the late Lt.-Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's Texas Air National Guard commanders. The story suggested that Bush had used his father's political connections to get into the Air National Guard – and avoid going to Vietnam – and had not fulfilled his service obligations. A number of officials and members of the public raised questions about the authenticity of the documents almost immediately after the show aired, but CBS News continued to defend the story for almost two weeks. "The bottom line is that much of the Sept. 8 broadcast was wrong, incomplete or unfair," Les Moonves, CBS president and co-president of parent company Viacom, said in a statement. "We deeply regret the disservice this flawed 60 Minutes Wednesday report did to the American public, which has a right to count on CBS News for fairness and accuracy," he said. RELATED STORY: CBS apologizes for using Bush service memos 'Myopic zeal,' 'rigid and blind defense' compounded problem: Independent report The firings came after Monday's release of a 224-page independent report by a two-man panel comprising Dick Thornburgh, the former U.S. attorney general, and Louis Boccardi, the former CEO and president of the Associated Press. In late September, CBS had commissioned the panel to conduct a review of the situation. "Both the Sept. 8 segment itself and the statements and news reports by CBS News that followed the segment failed to meet" the core journalistic principles of accuracy and fairness that CBS expects from its personnel, read the report. While Thornburgh and Boccardi did not conclude whether the "Killian documents are authentic or forgeries," it did identify "a number of issues that raise serious questions about the authenticity of the documents and their content. With better reporting, these questions should have been raised before the Sept. 8 segment aired." The report cited the involved parties' "myopic zeal to be the first news organization to broadcast what was believed to be a new story about President Bush's [Texas Air National Guard] service." The issue was then compounded by "the rigid and blind defense of the segment after it aired despite numerous indications of its shortcomings," the report said. Panel's recommendations The panel also recommended a number of changes, including: Appoint a senior standards and practices executive, reporting directly to the president of CBS News, who would review all investigative reporting, use of confidential sources and authentication of documents. Personnel should feel comfortable going to this person confidentially and without fear of reprisal, with questions or concerns about particular reports. Foster an atmosphere in which competitive pressure is not allowed to prompt airing of reports before all investigation and vetting is done. Allow senior management to know the names of confidential sources as well as all relevant background about the person needed to make news judgments. Appoint a separate team, led by someone not involved in the original reporting, to look into any news report that is challenged. News anchor Dan Rather, who was the correspondent on the story, announced in November that he would be stepping down as anchor of CBS Evening News, but he insisted that the timing had nothing to do with the investigation. Given the televised apology Rather offered after the fiasco and his announcement about stepping down, Moonves said further action against Rather was not warranted. http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/ar...ngs050110.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- So what's going on here. The president pays some journalist to filter the administrations agenda to the masses while CBS fires journalists because of a made up story? If those fired purposely used their medium to disparage Bush I agree with the firings. But what about the puppet for Bush? Should he not be fired? Why should we believe what he reported wasn't lies coming out of the White House regarding the education policies? What's the difference? And further, who else has been hired by the government as their anonymous voice(s) until revealed? __________________ " In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard. Last edited by OFKU0; 01-11-2005 at 10:21 AM..

01-11-2005, 10:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	This isn't the first time the Admin has had to admit to the misappropriation of taxpayer dollars to shill a favored bush program either. Williams also alluded to many more journalists being on the WH payroll to pimp various Admin policies. That's millions of dollars of our money being funnelled into paying to propagandize american. Nothing will happen to them anyway. What Bush Worry?

01-11-2005, 02:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	I'm not surprised. Though, to be fair, I'm sure the Democrats would do the same. Media spin and paid influence are more common that one may think. Mr Mephisto

01-11-2005, 02:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	I am not suprised at all by this. Anyone see the Daily Show bit on this last night? Funny stuff.

01-11-2005, 02:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Just another example to cite when people tell me our media isn't swayed by politics. Also just another reason to pay better attention to non-corprate funded news.

01-11-2005, 03:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	well, 200k at least explains one guy's support for obviously bankrupt policies. wonder how much limbaugh gets..... it is like payola but bigger. if any confirmation was necessary, this seems yet another strong argument for not limiting your information to a single country of origin.... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

01-11-2005, 04:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Let's see..... Clinton... tried by the GOP for lying about having oral sex in the Oval Office with an Intern (THAT HURT NOONE ELSE IN THE NATION) appologizes and takes all blame.... gave last minute pardons to questionable people takes blame admits some of the pardons were wrong BLAMES NOONE ELSE.....called everything under the Sun by people like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Drudge, Coulter and so on. Fox News hounding his every move. Bush..... Got away with Lying about the reason for war in Iraq (blames bad intel) 1000's injured and killed,.... gets away with Haliburton overcharging troops for fuel and reieving monies for items never supplied blames noone denies it happened even though proof is there, .... gets away with Patriot Acts 1 and probably 2 (giving the gov't more control and laws in our lives) excuses all infringes calling opposition "unpatriotic, friends of terrorists" by saying it is for national defense...... gets away with holding people indefinately giving them no rights at all,..... gets away with allowing the military to give cruel and unusual punishments (AND ALLOWS THEM TO PHOTOGRAPH THE ACTS) blames the military brass,...... allows a SGT. to kill 2 POWs (letting them drown) and giving him a wrist slap punishment blames the military brass,..... gets caught illegally paying newscasters to promote his propaganda and blames the department..... allows VP and US SCJ (Scalia) to use taxpayers monies to fraternize and go hunting together when there is a case pending in the SCOJ against the VP..... Allows private companies to sit in on and make policy on energy, and refuses to make public any record (even though all meetings were paid with tax dollars AND affect public policy)...... makes enemies of old allies, turns world sympathy for us and 9/11 into world hatred (turns back on his international leader allies as he watches them get voted out of office or decide to pull out of Iraq)..... gives tax cuts while running up the highest deficits ever..... allows N. Korea and Iran to go on with their Nuke programs yet claims they are enemies,.... allows jobs to be sent to unfriendly nations, ..... etc etc etc etc etc.... CBS gets crucified for IMO a setup of false reports (yes, I believe that Bush's friends gave the papers out and then went full bore to show them fakes, but that is a different argument, for a different thread) Hmmmm Clinton wasn't so bad after all. Bush wipes his hands of things, claims no knowledge, blames others or ignores all together. God only knows how truly evil this admin. is. How badly they have abused anything they could to keep the power and control anything they could. Why should this Williams deal surprise anyone? I'm sure by 2008 and after there will be so much more come out that Watergate will look like jaywalking compared to what Bush and Co. has done. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

01-11-2005, 07:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Bush will get away scott free because 51% won't care. 51% of America will be 100% responsible for this in history's eye. I wonder what 51% will let the next Republicanazi do.

01-11-2005, 08:40 PM	#21 (permalink)
mike059 Tilted Location: Pensacola, Florida	Don't worry, Newt Gingrich will clean it all up in 2008...

01-11-2005, 09:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
Konichiwaneko The Dreaded Pixel Nazi Location: Inside my camera	it's only wrong if bush does it. Can anyone answer this honestly, those articles that were writen by the people influenced by the guy that was brige, were they all praises for no child left behind? I just want to see if so or not. I'll agree with most of you guys, bribary mostly with tax payer dollars is pretty henious and wrong. I'm not blind enough by my politics to disagree with that, but I also know media slander and its ability to make a situation seem like something else. The article can easily be taken for what it says, that the money was put as a advertisement campaign. No where did it say that those who wrote articles about No Child Left behind had to write propaganda about it, only that they write about it. This to me does seem like exactly as it is, "Advertisement" __________________ Hesitate. Pull me in. Breath on breath. Skin on skin. Loving deep. Falling fast. All right here. Let this last. Here with our lips locked tight. Baby the time is right for us... to forget about us. Last edited by Konichiwaneko; 01-11-2005 at 09:17 PM..

01-11-2005, 09:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	The money spent on propoganda was trying to change public opinion of a very poor program. The money could have gone to buy textbooks or renew a teachers contract. I say don't form an opinion about NCLB until you read it yourself. The department of Education probably has a copy.

01-11-2005, 09:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	well from my perspective, the 4 people at CBS should have been fired. Not because of WHAT the story was, but because of their methods. One of the most important functions of the press is to serve as a watchdog against the powerful. The only way we can do that is to have the public trust. We break that, they don't listen when we find out about stuff the powerful is pulling, and we can't fulfill our main job of holding the powerful accountable for their actions. Those 4 broke the public trust, and hurt not only their network but all of their affiliates and in fact ALL news stations across the country. BTW I also feel Rather should have been fired. He certainly shouldn't be allowed to transfer to working on an investigative news show after he showed how much he helped botch that investigation. As for Mr. Williams, he can't be fired because he owns the company that employs him - Right Side Media. He writes a syndicated column which is run by several newspapers - they don't employ him, they just contract with him to run his columns. Actually they contract with a syndicate, which sends them his columns. One of the biggest syndicates involved with him is Tribune Media Services, which has terminated their contract with him "effective immediately." That of course means newspapers don't HAVE to drop his column since many of them are now not going to recieve it anyway - and if I had to guess, they're not exactly going to be motivated to try and pick it up again.

01-12-2005, 05:12 AM	#27 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	IMO, the worst (legal) thing about this country is the Media - including both its rightist and leftist incarnations. In all its forms from infotainment to entertainment, it is simply a titanic diseased prostitute. Its size, content, and influence could be reduced by 90% and we'd be the better for it. __________________ create evolution

01-12-2005, 05:34 AM	#28 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Amen, ART. I love the idea of a free and open press, but the sensational nature of journalism and the 24 hour news networks have really gone astray. __________________ it's quiet in here

01-12-2005, 06:07 AM	#31 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Wow, that's rude, and uncalled for. I'd love to see any information you have that education dollars in Georgia are in any way fairly distributed. But this thread isn't meant to go that direction.

01-12-2005, 07:31 AM	#32 (permalink)
jb2000 Crazy Location: Allen, TX	So let me ask folks... Where is the incentive to run a nationally broadcast news program that seeks to deliver factual reporting and investigation along with providing viewers with broad perspective on the matters of the day? Those who already have their minds made up will blast you for being in the pocket of the opposite side. Under barrage for being biased by these groups, when you do screw something up (and you will...it's the nature of the beast), it will be viewed as evidence to this end and to destroy your credibility. Why not just put infotainment up there that caters to one of the political camps: 'right', 'left', or 'hate-em-all'? We can talk until we are blue in the face about media's responsibility to the people and such, but in reality, we can't expect them to do it out of the goodness of their hearts alone. We need to provide an environment where those who choose to report responsibly are rewarded and prosper. Josh __________________ "Don't tell me we're so blind we cannot see that this is my land! I can't pretend that it's nothing to do with me. And this is your land, you can't close your eyes to this hypocracy. Yes this is my land, I won't pretend that it's nothing to do with me. 'Cause this is our land, we can't close our eyes to the things we don't wanna see." - DTH

01-12-2005, 08:20 AM	#33 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	i'll add another story to the pile...my mother teaches English as a second language at the High School level. NCLB hasn't helped her department an ounce, and has just encouraged more funding drain to other programs. Union pukes? I'm sorry...if that many union teachers are against it, then it means that teachers as a whole are against it. I'd ask you to take that back, since you are talking about my mother. I won't hold my breath, tho. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

01-12-2005, 09:34 AM	#34 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	union pukes? jesus...... it is customary for the far right to blame everything on the teachers union. this is obviously no different. no child left behind is in the main a sad farce. like most other parallel initiatives, this attempts to address the "problems" of public education by dancing around the central matter of the degree to which the educational system reproduces the class structure, which leads directly to the question of funding, its origins and allocation---instead you get the usual rightwing nonsense based on the illusion of equality, the illusion of a "level playing field" standardized testing is a sad joke. nothing about it teaches students to think. all it really does is bends teaching toward standardized tests. it is a sop for those who bewail the "collapse of traditional standards"--a set of moans which seems to come almost exclusively from folk who were themselves mediocre students. i dont get it. maybe the idea is that if you keep programs in place that impose a conservative worldview as if it was natural on students for long enough, maybe there will come a point when folk produced by this system might support the bankrupt policies of the bush administration and its ilk without having to be paid off to do it. why not--the positions are untenable if defended at the level of argument..... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-12-2005 at 09:42 AM..

01-12-2005, 02:39 PM	#36 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Union pukes.... that is laughable. The GOP has power and yet they still blame blame blame others for what they say they will do, knowing full well they won't, because it is easier for them to bribe, hide behind curtains and blame fall guys for their unwillingness to better the nation. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"