Journeyman

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...2/s1272129.htm


I was always under the impression that the IRA members officially affiliated with the Sinn Fein were under the thumb of the politicians, and thus incapable of executing operations (and subsequently wouldn't deny, but would rather pipe up and take credit) without authorization. My impressions are more like assumptions, as I've done no research in these arenas.

Would the IRA really pull it off and deny it, or do the police actually have cause to imitate a Dr. Seuss book?

The_Dunedan

No way this was the Provos. They've got no history of robbing banks, no political motivation to do so, and they're on cease-fire. A cease-fire which they've honored for nearly 10 years now, unlike the PSNI and various Unionist/Loyalist groups. Besides which, the IRA has always claimed responsibility for it's crimes; something which they havn't done in response to this.
Once again, the sectarian thugs in the PSNI are looking for ( and finding ) excuses to harass Republican/Nationalist leaders and activists.

ObieX

They should have turned the land back over to Ireland a long long time ago imo. All this violence would end and the Irish there can put down their weapons and return to their pubs. The brits have pulled out of a huge percent of their previous colonial lands/ conquered lands. Give the Irish back their own island and destiny is all im sayin.

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We Must Dissent.

homerhop

Nothing new in the tactics of the PSNI, they only changed their name not their structure or those who run it.As they are refered to 99% protestant 100% loyalists.

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its evolution baby

Strange Famous

the IRA is based on cells, and not as disciplined as you might imagine

In my opinion, they are the perfect example of "ends and means"

They started using organised crime (especially drug dealing) to fund a political struggle and they ended up as a bunch of drug dealers and criminals who use political rhetoric to recruit. Oh, I am sure there are still some believers left, but most of them by now are simply violent career criminals, and Republicanism is just a banner they tie to their gangsterism.

And the same could be said for a lot of the Unionist terrorists as well.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Strange Famous

But the majority of people who live in Northern Ireland dont want to be Irish.

The moral argument, that ireland belongs to the Irish, is fine. I agree that all of Ireland belongs to the Irish, to exactly the same degree that Texas belongs to the state of Mexico. Both are base on undeniable historical crimes. But the fact is most people in Ulster think of themselves and wish to be British and most people in Texas think of themselves and wish to be American. We have to deal with the politics of the real situation and the fact that the people who are there do not want to become party of the nation their land historicallty belonged to.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

djtestudo

What's the historical crime of Texas?

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

The_Dunedan

SF:
Been listening to Rev. Paisley, I see. The slim majority of Northern Irish citizens identify themselves as wishing to rejoin the Republic of Ireland ( 55% ) according to the Irish Northern Aid Society. A further 12% have no opinion, with the remainder wishing to remain part of the UK.

zen_tom

The Northern Ireland situation has been handled extremely well by both the British and Irish governments - when you consider the state the comparable situation of Israel is in right now.

It's all very well handing back an area of land back to its former owners, but that will just hand the existing problems to the Irish government. Many British would love to dump the problems and wipe their hands of the responsibility and cost of maintaining security in NI - however, the real world is not as simple as they or you might imagine.

While there really would be very little difference in living in a Belfast under Irish rule, the minority of protestants pre-disposed to violence would have cause to feel deserted and might feel the need to resume violent activities (in the same way that the small minority of the Republicans who were predisposed to violence joined and carried out atrocities in the IRA) What should matter is not the opinions of the violent minority that does nothing except increase mistrust, hatred and segregation, but real, practical, workable solutions. The establishment of a Northern Irish executive is an example of a fine compromise that puts control over things that matter into the hands of locally known and accountable people. Let me tell you from personal experience that the majority of people living in Northern Ireland don't give a damn what government collects their taxes, they just want to be rid of bombs, check-points and segregation.

I'm sorry ObieX, but your stereotypical view of what it is to be British/Irish just shows how so many Americans (I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly that you are American) could have financed the vicious terrorism and propped up the opinions of a minority of violent criminals and claimed the lives of hundreds of innocent Irish and British people over the last 40 years. Isn't it ironic that the same country that funded a spate of terrorist civillian bombings is now leading the war on terrorism...

Tophat665

Would it be possible to convince them to steal Kwaanza?

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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

ObieX

I have no view really as to what it is to be a brit, tbh i never really thought about it. But i do know what its like to be Irish. By going back to the pubs i meant .. well.. going back to being their peaceful selves (the Irish are VERY peaceful people) and going back to the pubs hehe.You can't tell me that the pubs aren't a major place to gather socially in Ireland, they are.

__________________
We Must Dissent.

zen_tom

ObieX, yes Irish people gather socially in pubs, but then so do the English and the Germans (two 'races' sometimes not particularly known for their peaceable natures - if history has been anything to go by)

But it is best to try to avoid any kind of stereotyping, people are people wherever they come from and tend to have the same ideas, hopes and aspirations. Just as it would be wrong of me to label Germans as facists, the English as tea sipping colonials, or Americans as dim-witted unworldly consumers, it would also be wrong to label the Irish as peace loving wee folk who, as soon as they've murdered a few English civillians would like nothing more than to skip through the clover and share a few pints of Guinness by the log fire in their friendly local pub.

It's just one of those things that niggles me, the way easy simplified stereotypes are bandied around as if they were real. People are always more complicated than any stereotype can do justice to.