There can be no national security...... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dksuddeth · 11-30-2004, 07:09 AM

As long as there are republicans and democrats in office.

In her book 'the third terrorist', Jayna Davis has written the only accurate historical account of what happened at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.

In June of 2001, with typical grit and determination, David Schippers, former Chicago crime-busting federal prosecutor and chief investigative counsel of the House Judiciary Committee for the 1998 impeachment trial of our perjurious president, William Jefferson Clinton, called the office of Attorney General John Ashcroft, demanding a meeting.

Managing only to reach a “deputy,” Schippers quickly came to the point, “I have in my office volumes of credible evidence indicating Middle Eastern involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing, and quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me.”

“If nothing is done,” he said presciently, “I’m afraid these terrorists are going to blow up Lower Manhattan.”

The Attorney General did not return the phone call. Three months later, Islamic terrorists massacred 3,000 innocent Americans in three separate attacks. The epicenter of these attacks was Lower Manhattan.

What were the “volumes of credible evidence” that Attorney Schippers wanted, so desperately, to convey to the Attorney General? Very simply, it was the fruit of several years of investigation compiled by former Oklahoma City television journalist, Jayna Davis. And, Ms. Davis, utilizing the hard earned information she made available to Schippers, has written a very sad, terrifying, and necessary book!

In a very real sense Jayna Davis has written the only accurate historical account of what happened at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. She has shown through diligence and hard work that a combination of Iraqi sleeper agents, two “lily white” mules -- Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols-- Ramzi Yousef, then Al-Qaeda’s Philippine warlord, and a number of minor figures conspired under the leadership of the recently established “Armed Islamic Movement,” an organization that resulted from the “foreboding merger between Iran and Iraq,” to strike at America’s heartland.

Gathering the affidavits of twenty-two eyewitnesses she has proven that the “third terrorist” was Hussain Hashem Al-Hussaini, an Iraqi soldier in the first Gulf War, and the infamous “John Doe 2” who accompanied McVeigh to the Murrah Federal building in the ammonia nitrate fuel oil-ladened Ryder truck. She details the events leading up to the bombing and the escape of the Iraqis, as well as McVeigh’s serendipitous capture, by piecing together eyewitness testimony.

As riveting as Jayna Davis’s story is concerning the foreign-led conspiracy and the actual bombing, the account of her pleadings with the FBI and Congress reveal a dark and forbidding Byzantine bureaucracy whose frightening ineptness and malfeasance laid the cornerstone for America’s lack of preparedness for 9/11. On a number of occasions Ms. Davis tried to turn over to the FBI the twenty-two eyewitness affidavits she’d collected, which indicated an Islamic element in the conspiracy to bomb the Murrah building. But, repeatedly, the FBI refused to accept these witness statements (In 1997, the FBI declared that the Department of Justice “did not want any more documents for discovery” to burden the ongoing trial of Terry Nichols).

In 2002 Davis presented her information (eighty pages of eyewitness affidavits and twenty-three hundred pages of “corroborative documentation”) to Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter. The FBI’s six-page rebuttal to Davis’s mountain of evidence led the primary architect of the infamous “magic bullet theory” to declare that, in this case, “…the dots did not connect.”

Again in 2002, Davis’s ally, Attorney David Schippers, was contacted by Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert’s office. Schippers offered to provide witnesses for the Speaker but Hastert broke off contact. Also, that same year, Indiana Congressman Dan Burton’s Government Reform Committee “feigned” interest as a result of political pressure exerted back home. Burton even went so far as to send staffers to Oklahoma to interview witnesses. Unfortunately, Ms. Davis reports that, “All the witnesses complained that the congressional representatives came across as apathetic, posing only superficial questions, avoiding the topic of possible FBI malfeasance altogether.”

But not all of government’s beauracrats and politicians were deaf to Davis’s pleadings. In 1996 she contacted the then-acting director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Israeli-born Yossef Bodansky. Bodansky is an expert on terrorism and the author of the best selling book Terror: The Inside Story of the Terrorist Conspiracy in America. Bodansky conducted his own investigation of the Oklahoma bombing and corroborated Davis’s witnesses’ testimony regarding the suspects. He also provided information concerning the recruitment of “lily whites” to be used in future terrorist strikes, Osama bin Laden’s “outreach” into the American heartland, terrorist training facilities in Chicago, and the independent Israeli/ATF report of the Oklahoma City bombing that declared “…the bomb which destroyed the Murrah building was constructed by Arab terrorists or people trained by Arab terrorists.”

If Ms. Davis’s book is accurate, and I have every reason to believe it is, and if Yossef Bodansky’s findings on behalf of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare are accurate, and I have every reason to believe they are, then the Murrah Federal Building was “…a deadly instrument of state policy by foreign adversaries.” It was nothing less than an act of war.

Jayna Davis’s book has shown that when the Clinton Administration ignored those responsible for the Murrah bombing they laid the groundwork for the massacre of 9/11. The book also shows that the war with Iraq is about as righteous as any war in which America has engaged. And, while the Bush Administration has erred in its insistence on “bringing democracy to Iraq” and in not pursuing the destruction of those nations that support the “Armed Islamic Movement,” a Kerry presidency will only endanger the lives of innocent Americans.

The republicans and democrats in office sold out OUR security for political protection and their own collective asses while almost 3,000 people were killed in an attack that we now know could have been prevented. To this day they are still using protectionist measures to avoid what SHOULD be criminal prosecution for treason, or at a minimum criminal indifference to national security. Face it people, the only way that we can be protected is to elect independent individuals with zero political affiliation because this shows that republicans and democrats DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU, only themselves.

http://www.intellectualconservative....ticle3617.html

Ustwo · 11-30-2004, 07:42 AM

The problem with the above article is that it gives no facts just accusations. As such I can't really say 'that makes sense'. Perhaps the Oklahoma bombers were trained by mideast terrorists, but I can't imagine them being willing to go to the grave instead of give out that information. It serves nothing to just blow up a building as a symbol if the cause does not take credit for it. Therefore I can only conclude, until otherwise proven, that this is B.S.

stevo · 11-30-2004, 07:47 AM

Interesting article. Although I still have faith in some of our elected representatives. I'm sure some really do care about the well-being of this country and its citizens. But I also agree with the war in Iraq...

dksuddeth · 11-30-2004, 07:48 AM

All the 'facts' were shown, even handed over, to several elected representatives and government officials but I guess we'll all bow down to 'your' official expertise and knowledge in whats B.S. and whats reality.

Bill O'Rights · 11-30-2004, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

Face it people, the only way that we can be protected is to elect independent individuals with zero political affiliation because this shows that republicans and democrats DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU, only themselves.

Everything else aside for a moment...I've been saying this for years

Ustwo · 11-30-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

All the 'facts' were shown, even handed over, to several elected representatives and government officials but I guess we'll all bow down to 'your' official expertise and knowledge in whats B.S. and whats reality.

The 'facts' that were shown, were not shown to me, I can not look at them, I have to take the word of those who gave the facts that the facts are valid. This means I can have no informed opinion on the validity of those facts. I pointed out one aspect of the story that does not make logical sense, if they could explain that with their facts then perhaps I would be worried about it.

What this article has asked me to do is take their word for it. I can not do that.

Ustwo · 11-30-2004, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Everything else aside for a moment...I've been saying this for years

Politics is nothing but the result of evolution, politics play a role in most social mammals lives. As soon as you elect someone, they become political.

dksuddeth · 11-30-2004, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The 'facts' that were shown, were not shown to me, I can not look at them, I have to take the word of those who gave the facts that the facts are valid. This means I can have no informed opinion on the validity of those facts. I pointed out one aspect of the story that does not make logical sense, if they could explain that with their facts then perhaps I would be worried about it.

What this article has asked me to do is take their word for it. I can not do that.

Ok, I can understand, even accept, that.. except it seems that people (not you specifically) have this irritating habit of blindly accepting 'official' government statements with no factual documenation attributed to it and will declare all else B.S. or 'liberally' slanted because it doesn't 'fit' their ideological view.

Ustwo · 11-30-2004, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

Ok, I can understand, even accept, that.. except it seems that people (not you specifically) have this irritating habit of blindly accepting 'official' government statements with no factual documenation attributed to it and will declare all else B.S. or 'liberally' slanted because it doesn't 'fit' their ideological view.

There comes a point where you have to trust someone. In this case I have no reason to trust or distrust, they are an unknown. In that case I have to use my logic to decide if it makes sense. Now we know how fast both parties wish to blame the other for terrorists attacks, and how no one wants to take the blame for it. This article would require both parties to cover up, which just doesn't flow with how they operate. Since most of this happened under Clinton, you would think the Republicans would have been happy to place blame. Instead they would have helped cover it up. Plus there is the motive factor I mentioned before. As such I do not discount the possibility of truth, but I give the government the benefit of the doubt.

dksuddeth · 11-30-2004, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

There comes a point where you have to trust someone. In this case I have no reason to trust or distrust, they are an unknown. In that case I have to use my logic to decide if it makes sense. Now we know how fast both parties wish to blame the other for terrorists attacks, and how no one wants to take the blame for it. This article would require both parties to cover up, which just doesn't flow with how they operate. Since most of this happened under Clinton, you would think the Republicans would have been happy to place blame. Instead they would have helped cover it up. Plus there is the motive factor I mentioned before. As such I do not discount the possibility of truth, but I give the government the benefit of the doubt.

While I agree for the most part about both sides hoping to expose the other, it appears not to be the case in this particular incident. It started with the clinton administration but somehow some prominent republicans got involved with the 'coverup' about it and that is supposed to be why it was continued in the bush admin.....to avoid upsetting the congressional majority of republicans.

Davis' next book is supposed to name these particular republicans though it should come out now to expose them. Any democrats still in office that were involved should be outed also.

Bill O'Rights · 11-30-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

As soon as you elect someone, they become political.

Agreed. However...I would posit that it's what they do with it after that point that matters the most.

gondath · 11-30-2004, 11:42 AM

This almost seems like a ploy to get people to buy that book. If the issue is really how she described it, she needs to release all her sources out there for free. What's worse, a national coverup concerning our security, or someone using knowledge of that incident to make a profit? I'm not buying it so far.

vox_rox · 11-30-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Everything else aside for a moment...I've been saying this for years

And this is true no matter where you go, and no matter what political system you stumble across. The asd truth is that the passion to lead or govern has been subsumed by the will to wield power, and politicos everywhere understand inherently the value of the power that the possess.

Leaders, especially of nations, are not public servants. They are self-serving elite social parasites that have only one reason for being in office - it's good for THEM.

The fact the the WTO creates trade policy for every nation, and the World Bank enforces those policies and all financial transactions world wide, leaves goevernments to only deal with social issues, which they do not do very well anyway.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, or too cynical, but politics and government has lost it's way somewhere along to pathway, and we all pay the price for this universal democratic derailment.

Pierre

dksuddeth · 11-30-2004, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gondath

This almost seems like a ploy to get people to buy that book. If the issue is really how she described it, she needs to release all her sources out there for free. What's worse, a national coverup concerning our security, or someone using knowledge of that incident to make a profit? I'm not buying it so far.

So, because an attorney general and a speaker of the house basically refuse to do anything about the evidence shown to them she makes a book so we'll slam her for that and call it a sham.....tsk tsk.

Ustwo · 11-30-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

So, because an attorney general and a speaker of the house basically refuse to do anything about the evidence shown to them she makes a book so we'll slam her for that and call it a sham.....tsk tsk.

I think what he is saying is that perhaps this has nothing to do with national security, but personal profit.

11-30-2004, 07:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	There can be no national security...... As long as there are republicans and democrats in office. In her book 'the third terrorist', Jayna Davis has written the only accurate historical account of what happened at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. In June of 2001, with typical grit and determination, David Schippers, former Chicago crime-busting federal prosecutor and chief investigative counsel of the House Judiciary Committee for the 1998 impeachment trial of our perjurious president, William Jefferson Clinton, called the office of Attorney General John Ashcroft, demanding a meeting. Managing only to reach a “deputy,” Schippers quickly came to the point, “I have in my office volumes of credible evidence indicating Middle Eastern involvement in the Oklahoma City bombing, and quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me.” “If nothing is done,” he said presciently, “I’m afraid these terrorists are going to blow up Lower Manhattan.” The Attorney General did not return the phone call. Three months later, Islamic terrorists massacred 3,000 innocent Americans in three separate attacks. The epicenter of these attacks was Lower Manhattan. What were the “volumes of credible evidence” that Attorney Schippers wanted, so desperately, to convey to the Attorney General? Very simply, it was the fruit of several years of investigation compiled by former Oklahoma City television journalist, Jayna Davis. And, Ms. Davis, utilizing the hard earned information she made available to Schippers, has written a very sad, terrifying, and necessary book! In a very real sense Jayna Davis has written the only accurate historical account of what happened at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. She has shown through diligence and hard work that a combination of Iraqi sleeper agents, two “lily white” mules -- Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols-- Ramzi Yousef, then Al-Qaeda’s Philippine warlord, and a number of minor figures conspired under the leadership of the recently established “Armed Islamic Movement,” an organization that resulted from the “foreboding merger between Iran and Iraq,” to strike at America’s heartland. Gathering the affidavits of twenty-two eyewitnesses she has proven that the “third terrorist” was Hussain Hashem Al-Hussaini, an Iraqi soldier in the first Gulf War, and the infamous “John Doe 2” who accompanied McVeigh to the Murrah Federal building in the ammonia nitrate fuel oil-ladened Ryder truck. She details the events leading up to the bombing and the escape of the Iraqis, as well as McVeigh’s serendipitous capture, by piecing together eyewitness testimony. As riveting as Jayna Davis’s story is concerning the foreign-led conspiracy and the actual bombing, the account of her pleadings with the FBI and Congress reveal a dark and forbidding Byzantine bureaucracy whose frightening ineptness and malfeasance laid the cornerstone for America’s lack of preparedness for 9/11. On a number of occasions Ms. Davis tried to turn over to the FBI the twenty-two eyewitness affidavits she’d collected, which indicated an Islamic element in the conspiracy to bomb the Murrah building. But, repeatedly, the FBI refused to accept these witness statements (In 1997, the FBI declared that the Department of Justice “did not want any more documents for discovery” to burden the ongoing trial of Terry Nichols). In 2002 Davis presented her information (eighty pages of eyewitness affidavits and twenty-three hundred pages of “corroborative documentation”) to Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter. The FBI’s six-page rebuttal to Davis’s mountain of evidence led the primary architect of the infamous “magic bullet theory” to declare that, in this case, “…the dots did not connect.” Again in 2002, Davis’s ally, Attorney David Schippers, was contacted by Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert’s office. Schippers offered to provide witnesses for the Speaker but Hastert broke off contact. Also, that same year, Indiana Congressman Dan Burton’s Government Reform Committee “feigned” interest as a result of political pressure exerted back home. Burton even went so far as to send staffers to Oklahoma to interview witnesses. Unfortunately, Ms. Davis reports that, “All the witnesses complained that the congressional representatives came across as apathetic, posing only superficial questions, avoiding the topic of possible FBI malfeasance altogether.” But not all of government’s beauracrats and politicians were deaf to Davis’s pleadings. In 1996 she contacted the then-acting director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Israeli-born Yossef Bodansky. Bodansky is an expert on terrorism and the author of the best selling book Terror: The Inside Story of the Terrorist Conspiracy in America. Bodansky conducted his own investigation of the Oklahoma bombing and corroborated Davis’s witnesses’ testimony regarding the suspects. He also provided information concerning the recruitment of “lily whites” to be used in future terrorist strikes, Osama bin Laden’s “outreach” into the American heartland, terrorist training facilities in Chicago, and the independent Israeli/ATF report of the Oklahoma City bombing that declared “…the bomb which destroyed the Murrah building was constructed by Arab terrorists or people trained by Arab terrorists.” If Ms. Davis’s book is accurate, and I have every reason to believe it is, and if Yossef Bodansky’s findings on behalf of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare are accurate, and I have every reason to believe they are, then the Murrah Federal Building was “…a deadly instrument of state policy by foreign adversaries.” It was nothing less than an act of war. Jayna Davis’s book has shown that when the Clinton Administration ignored those responsible for the Murrah bombing they laid the groundwork for the massacre of 9/11. The book also shows that the war with Iraq is about as righteous as any war in which America has engaged. And, while the Bush Administration has erred in its insistence on “bringing democracy to Iraq” and in not pursuing the destruction of those nations that support the “Armed Islamic Movement,” a Kerry presidency will only endanger the lives of innocent Americans. The republicans and democrats in office sold out OUR security for political protection and their own collective asses while almost 3,000 people were killed in an attack that we now know could have been prevented. To this day they are still using protectionist measures to avoid what SHOULD be criminal prosecution for treason, or at a minimum criminal indifference to national security. Face it people, the only way that we can be protected is to elect independent individuals with zero political affiliation because this shows that republicans and democrats DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU, only themselves. http://www.intellectualconservative....ticle3617.html

11-30-2004, 07:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The problem with the above article is that it gives no facts just accusations. As such I can't really say 'that makes sense'. Perhaps the Oklahoma bombers were trained by mideast terrorists, but I can't imagine them being willing to go to the grave instead of give out that information. It serves nothing to just blow up a building as a symbol if the cause does not take credit for it. Therefore I can only conclude, until otherwise proven, that this is B.S. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-30-2004, 07:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	Interesting article. Although I still have faith in some of our elected representatives. I'm sure some really do care about the well-being of this country and its citizens. But I also agree with the war in Iraq...

11-30-2004, 07:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	All the 'facts' were shown, even handed over, to several elected representatives and government officials but I guess we'll all bow down to 'your' official expertise and knowledge in whats B.S. and whats reality.

11-30-2004, 11:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
gondath Insane Location: Alton, IL	This almost seems like a ploy to get people to buy that book. If the issue is really how she described it, she needs to release all her sources out there for free. What's worse, a national coverup concerning our security, or someone using knowledge of that incident to make a profit? I'm not buying it so far.