Troops find hostage 'slaughterhouses' in Falluja - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

inkriminator · 11-10-2004, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Troops find hostage 'slaughterhouses' in Falluja Coalition forces say 70 percent of city is under control

FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi troops retaking the city of Falluja have found hostage "slaughterhouses" where people were held captive and beheaded, an Iraqi military official said Wednesday. Soldiers found CDs labeled "beheading of ..." and showing the decapitations of hostages. Black clothing and masks worn by the kidnappers when they made the videos were found, along with banners hoisted in the background, according to Iraqi and U.S. military officials.

Soldiers said it was apparent that numerous killings had taken place there. Maj. Gen. Abdul Qader, commander of Iraqi forces in the battle, said he was unsure whether the hostage records included the names of kidnapped British aid worker Margaret Hassan or French journalists Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot.

In Baghdad, meanwhile, a car bomb detonated Wednesday near an emergency police patrol killed at least seven people and wounded three police officers, said Col. Adnan Abdul Rahman, spokesman for Iraq's Ministry of Interior. And a U.S. soldier was killed and another is listed in stable condition after an Army 1st Infantry patrol was hit by a roadside bomb near Balad, north of Baghdad early Wednesday, a military statement said.

Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

What should be done with places like this. Should they be left as memorials to what happened, or should they be completely destroyed?

I think that the memories, if not the buildings should be preserved. I would like to see some of the billions that are being poured into this war channeled into a museum that would educate the population about what has happened.

This could be given as a grant to the Governing Council in Iraq and be used not only as a public works project, but also giving Iraqis control over what shown in the museum. This will be a way for them to reclaim and give legitimacy to the concept of an Iraqi-run government as opposed to the American puppet regime that many believe are, and will continue to be, in power.

DelayedReaction · 11-11-2004, 07:05 AM

It's the job of the Iraqi people to decide stuff like that. I suspect they'll want to destroy them, in the same way they want to destroy Abu Ghraib.

Ustwo · 11-11-2004, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelayedReaction

It's the job of the Iraqi people to decide stuff like that. I suspect they'll want to destroy them, in the same way they want to destroy Abu Ghraib.

Of course no one lost their head in Abu Ghraib, but nice try at making a false moral equivalent.

Averett · 11-11-2004, 07:10 AM

A museum to mark a place where people were beheaded? Why??

Bill O'Rights · 11-11-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Of course no one lost their head in Abu Ghraib, but nice try at making a false moral equivalent.

I don't think that he was trying to make a "moral equivalent" between Abu Ghraib and the beheadings, so much as he was trying to point out that the Iraqi people may want to just destroy these reminders, and try to move ahead of all of it.

Ustwo · 11-11-2004, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

I don't think that he was trying to make a "moral equivalent" between Abu Ghraib and the beheadings, so much as he was trying to point out that the Iraqi people may want to just destroy these reminders, and try to move ahead of all of it.

Perhaps but with all the horrors in Iraq, I find it telling that he picked out the one where no one was murdred.

Bill O'Rights · 11-11-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Perhaps but with all the horrors in Iraq, I find it telling that he picked out the one where no one was murdred.

As opposed to...what?
Unless you count colateral damage as murder, which I am sure you do not, then so far as I know, our side has not commited murder. Unless you know something that I don't?

Ustwo · 11-11-2004, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

As opposed to...what?
Unless you count colateral damage as murder, which I am sure you do not, then so far as I know, our side has not commited murder. Unless you know something that I don't?

No I think you missunderstand.

There are mass graves, execution rooms, etc, all from Saddam's reign. Yet by picking Abu Ghraib as the same type of place as a hostage execution room where DVD's of their deaths were spread across the world, it was a direct attempt to make a moral equivalent. It wasn't accidental.

splck · 11-11-2004, 09:10 AM

I don't think they really give a shit about what happens to that kind of stuff at the moment.

martinguerre · 11-11-2004, 09:29 AM

ustwo...perhaps your memory could be refreshed. before US MPs committed acts of brutality there, Saddam had already given the place a bad name....

Lebell · 11-11-2004, 10:03 AM

I have to say that I also don't necessarily see the equivalent being drawn.

Abu Graib was already a very bad place irrespective of what the US did or did not do there.

Rdr4evr · 11-11-2004, 10:21 AM

Actually, several Iraqis were killed while detained by the Americans in Abu Ghraib, but their deaths were apparently because some kind of riot broke out between the inmates, and Americans had to use "lethal force" by shooting them dead.......yeah sure. Besides, I'm sure death would have been far better in some cases than the brutal manner in which the inmates were tortured.

As far as Americans murdering innocent people, I know most of you don't want to believe, but it happens quite often. Forcing people in the Tigris River so they would drown, massacring weddings, etc. The link below provides numerous other links to American murders and injustices. That is for a whole other thread though.

http://www.usawatch.org/archives/cat_iraq.html

Ustwo · 11-11-2004, 10:31 AM

Al Jazeera, must be true then, thanks.

Rdr4evr · 11-11-2004, 10:45 AM

I’ll take Al Jazeeras word over American media any day.

And you have another link there as well you probably decided to ignore.

Tarl Cabot · 11-12-2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Actually, several Iraqis were killed while detained by the Americans in Abu Ghraib, but their deaths were apparently because some kind of riot broke out between the inmates, and Americans had to use "lethal force" by shooting them dead.......yeah sure. Besides, I'm sure death would have been far better in some cases than the brutal manner in which the inmates were tortured.

As far as Americans murdering innocent people, I know most of you don't want to believe, but it happens quite often. Forcing people in the Tigris River so they would drown, massacring weddings, etc. The link below provides numerous other links to American murders and injustices. That is for a whole other thread though.

http://www.usawatch.org/archives/cat_iraq.html

...
I’ll take Al Jazeeras word over American media any day.

That's pretty obvious. Can you remind me why U.S. ground forces found satellite communications equipment, foreign passports, AK-47 rifles, machine guns, and cash at a wedding held at 3 am? A wedding 10 miles from the Syrian border and 80 miles from the nearest civilization?"

In compiling your links, did you happen to notice anything that the US did right? Or anything Saddam might have done that wasn't good?

Coppertop · 11-12-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarl Cabot

That's pretty obvious. Can you remind me why U.S. ground forces found satellite communications equipment, foreign passports, AK-47 rifles, machine guns, and cash at a wedding held at 3 am? A wedding 10 miles from the Syrian border and 80 miles from the nearest civilization?"

In compiling your links, did you happen to notice anything that the US did right? Or anything Saddam might have done that wasn't good?

Troll bait. Don't feed this guy kiddies.

Lebell · 11-12-2004, 04:22 PM

I'll point out that Tarl Cabot did not bring up "massacring weddings".

I also don't see a troll, but I see an avoidance of answering the question.

hammer4all · 11-12-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Perhaps but with all the horrors in Iraq, I find it telling that he picked out the one where no one was murdred.

No one was murdered huh? Allow me to refresh your memory:

Rdr4evr · 11-12-2004, 07:51 PM

If you are implying that I avoided the question, here is Tarl Cabot's answer.

I love how you added a few things in there Tarl Cabot. I notice you threw in AK-47's, machine guns and satellite communications equipments. The article does not say anything about those three things. What it does say though is that they found cash, foreign passports, weapons, and sophisticated communications equipment. Is it so strange for a wedding to have cash or foreign passports? Can relatives not visit from foreign areas to visit a loved ones wedding? And also, a cell phone could be considered a sophisticated communication device for Gods sake. And weapons? Yeah, to shoot in the air for celebration, which is why the US forces returned fire killing 15 children and 10 women, you know, the 15 child terrorists? Believe it or not, wedding celebrations go well into the morning as well, and could it be a possibility that maybe they held it a remote location to avoid complications with the war?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Connolly · 11-18-2004, 03:23 PM

You have got to be moronic to fire in the air in a warzone, especially when a helicopter or airplane (probably a helicopter) is in the vicinity, and more importantly in your line of fire.

Also, Rdr4evr, you're taking what your article says for granted, while a simple Google Search while show that "sattelite communications equipment" was found. Also, the most popular gun in Iraq right now HAS to be the AK, and what else do you believe they would be firing?

11-11-2004, 07:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	It's the job of the Iraqi people to decide stuff like that. I suspect they'll want to destroy them, in the same way they want to destroy Abu Ghraib. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

11-11-2004, 07:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
Averett Is In Love Location: I'm workin' on it	A museum to mark a place where people were beheaded? Why?? __________________ Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

11-11-2004, 09:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
splck it's jam Location: Lowerainland BC	I don't think they really give a shit about what happens to that kind of stuff at the moment. __________________ nice line eh?

11-11-2004, 09:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	ustwo...perhaps your memory could be refreshed. before US MPs committed acts of brutality there, Saddam had already given the place a bad name.... __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

11-11-2004, 10:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I have to say that I also don't necessarily see the equivalent being drawn. Abu Graib was already a very bad place irrespective of what the US did or did not do there. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-11-2004, 10:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	Actually, several Iraqis were killed while detained by the Americans in Abu Ghraib, but their deaths were apparently because some kind of riot broke out between the inmates, and Americans had to use "lethal force" by shooting them dead.......yeah sure. Besides, I'm sure death would have been far better in some cases than the brutal manner in which the inmates were tortured. As far as Americans murdering innocent people, I know most of you don't want to believe, but it happens quite often. Forcing people in the Tigris River so they would drown, massacring weddings, etc. The link below provides numerous other links to American murders and injustices. That is for a whole other thread though. http://www.usawatch.org/archives/cat_iraq.html

11-11-2004, 10:31 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Al Jazeera, must be true then, thanks. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-11-2004, 10:45 AM	#14 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	I’ll take Al Jazeeras word over American media any day. And you have another link there as well you probably decided to ignore.

11-12-2004, 04:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I'll point out that Tarl Cabot did not bring up "massacring weddings". I also don't see a troll, but I see an avoidance of answering the question. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-12-2004, 07:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	If you are implying that I avoided the question, here is Tarl Cabot's answer. I love how you added a few things in there Tarl Cabot. I notice you threw in AK-47's, machine guns and satellite communications equipments. The article does not say anything about those three things. What it does say though is that they found cash, foreign passports, weapons, and sophisticated communications equipment. Is it so strange for a wedding to have cash or foreign passports? Can relatives not visit from foreign areas to visit a loved ones wedding? And also, a cell phone could be considered a sophisticated communication device for Gods sake. And weapons? Yeah, to shoot in the air for celebration, which is why the US forces returned fire killing 15 children and 10 women, you know, the 15 child terrorists? Believe it or not, wedding celebrations go well into the morning as well, and could it be a possibility that maybe they held it a remote location to avoid complications with the war? http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

11-18-2004, 03:23 PM	#20 (permalink)
Connolly Upright Location: Ontario, CA	You have got to be moronic to fire in the air in a warzone, especially when a helicopter or airplane (probably a helicopter) is in the vicinity, and more importantly in your line of fire. Also, Rdr4evr, you're taking what your article says for granted, while a simple Google Search while show that "sattelite communications equipment" was found. Also, the most popular gun in Iraq right now HAS to be the AK, and what else do you believe they would be firing? Last edited by Connolly; 11-18-2004 at 03:25 PM..