Manx

I don't know quite how else to say what I have said - my answer to this question is above. It is in the post just above your first.

In summary:

The Democratic party and liberalism is not experiencing a decline. The conservative movement experienced a larger increase in voting participation than did the liberal movement. The difference is evident.

irateplatypus

ahh fellas...

we're all going round in circles now. it's time for me to move on... thanks for the discussion. i didn't expect to convince either of you, but i really did do my best to understand where you all are coming from. see ya on the other threads.

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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

cthulu23

Who needs actual leftist opinions? Assumptions work so much better.

psyday

I can't help but snicker when anyone puts the word liberal in the context of American politics and the concept of individual liberty together. Granted that the Republican party has strayed so far from it's roots as of late where that is concerned and has taken a much more religous tone, it still is the party (major of the two) that takes a stand for individual liberty.

Anyone that thinks the Democrats are saviours of individual liberty need to take a closer look at what they stand for. Sure, they have taken stands recently on the side of homosexual marriage and such, which I applaud them for (and I actually voted for Kerry mind you), but they are hardly taking the stand on individual liberty.

It was Democrats not Republicans that have sponsered bill after bill regarding the banning and sanction of violent video games, violent and unsavory lyrics in music, nudity and sexualism on T.V., the list goes on. Not to mention the fact they would like to take more and more of what you earn and spend it in a manner they decide suits you best, that's hardly individual liberty and harldy the kind of rugged individualism this nation was founded on.

There are many positions I agree with when it comes to the Democratic agenda, but I know that they aren't fighting for my individual liberties, they never really have. I think the entire premise of your original argument on apathy is on misplaced and misguided ideas of what the Democratic party stands for.

Stompy

Republicans don't fight for personal liberty any more than democrats do.

If I'm not mistaken, they're the ones most hardcore in the "war on drugs". That certainly isn't promoting individual freedom.

Democrats do pull some stupid shit a lot of time (like Gore's bullshit censoring campaign in the 80's), but realize the religious right does the exact same. They're the first to cry whenever "offensive" music, violent movies, porn, or drugs are around them.

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