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ahh fellas...
we're all going round in circles now. it's time for me to move on... thanks for the discussion. i didn't expect to convince either of you, but i really did do my best to understand where you all are coming from. see ya on the other threads.
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If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
~ Winston Churchill
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