djtestudo

...from someone people may listen to

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/...0410280949.asp

*NOTE* - Ignore the site because it isn't an opinion piece, but what Schilling said this morning.

Personally, I wouldn't go to Curt Schilling for advice on who to vote for. However, with it apparent that people will listen to celebrities such as Bruce Springsteen, Alec Baldwin, etc. when it comes to politics, I wonder if anyone on here would admit to doing that.

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Halx

I am so diappointed in Schilling...

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Ustwo

Since Kerry tried to link the Red Sox winning with him winning I see no problem with Schilling saying it.

Otherwise I want them to keep the hell out of baseball.

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Flyguy

Celebrities suck. They're usually completly uninformed when it comes to politics, (Cameron Diaz) have their own agenda (P Diddy, getting people to vote is good but still...) or they're just trying to make themselves look good to sell another record or a movie ticket (pretty much all of them)

Mephisto2

Hah! If that's true (I don't follow baseball), then Ustwo has a good point.

LOL


Mr Mephisto

djtestudo

It is, I heard it on the radio this morning.

Something to the effect of "They said I would get to be president once the Red Sox won the World Series, so we're on our way!"

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Mephisto2

Well, I don't know. As far as I remember, the largerst proportion of non-voting citizens is in the young to middle-aged group, right? They quite often react to celebrity.

In other words, if you want to get your message across, then having celebrity endorsement helps. It's no different from normal advertising. Like George Foreman grills or Tiger Woods Nike shoes. Hence, political groups are bound to use celebrities. Personally, I prefer the non-partisan ones (like "Just get out and vote") to the partisan ones (like "Vote for Bush" or "Vote for Kerry").

But in this case, the guy has not really been engaged as a formal supporter (right?), but has only expressed his opinion. In that case, more power to him.


Mr Mephisto

Mephisto2

haha... I think he was trying to be funny. Wasn't there something about the Red Sox being cursed by Babe Ruth???

Still, it's amusing someone from the team then turns around and tells people to vote for Bush.


Mr Mephisto

djtestudo

We don't have the time to visit the Red Sox and their various curses in here

I also heard that he'll do campaigning with Bush a couple times, but I don't know if that's for sure.

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

roachboy

the few sports engagements that i have seem to inevitably get some of the pleasure sucked out of them within 24 hours.

when the patriots won their first super bowl, the philadelphia inquirer ran a piece the next day that argued god had wanted the patriots to win because of their name.

in this case, whatever schilling's political opinions are are fine. i do not care. beyond that, i actually agree with ustwo.

good god.

i agree with ustwo.

just goes to show that in a world that can accomodate the red sox winning a world series, anything is possible.

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kutulu

I don't have a problem with it. Why are celebrities any less informed than anyone here? We here have no problem telling each other who we are voting for and why we are right. I don't agree with Schilling's choice for POTUS but if he thinks it's right he should do whatever he can to rally people to his side.

Everyone has their agenda.

Journeyman

I can honestly say that I haven't heard of that, but that I did make that hopeful connection when Boston won.

Tophat665

Now here's the difference between Springsteen and Schilling. Springsteen's job as a songwriter is to comment upon his society. He has to know what is going on and who did what to whom if he is to be effective. In short, to be a good songwriter, you have to be able to speak to people where they live which means you have to be informed. It means that Springsteen has at least the ability to grasp the issues, and he has probably, in the course of crafting one song or another, studied many of them.

Now, I don't know what on the Red Sox Curt Schilling does, but it's one of 3 things: 1) Hit a small object with a big piece of wood. 2) Throw a small object so that it cannot be hit with a big piece of wood. or 3) Catch that small object after someone has beaten the snot out of it with a big piece of wood. While I will admit that those skills might qualify one to understand Bush's foreign policy, which seems mostly to involve big sticks failing to hit small objects, but it certainly doesn't qualify anyone to comment on society. (Yogi Berra aside.)

Now, so far as I know, Schilling is a citizen, has a right to his opinion, is a celebrity, and has the platform to air it. I'm down with that. I think he's a fool for his choice, but he's no fool for talking about it. So, in that way, I sort of have to give Ustwo half his point. On the other hand, what the hell do the people of Boston (or indeed any city with a major sports team) think they have to do with winning baseball games? It's a snow job folks, a false identity. If you want to buy into "Team Spirit" for kicks, don't believe you're doing anything different than a chronic pot smoker. That said, Kerry has as much right to claim the Red Sox as any Massachussetsite (-ian?): None. In fact, unless he were part or past owner of the team or coach or player thereon, he has diddly squat to do with it. I notice Bush wasn't talking about the Rangers this year, though, even though he has the right.

(That said, if you enjoy baseball for the game, I can't see why, but I like football pretty much for itself, so at least I understand on some level. This team identity thing, though, really escapes me.)

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bling

I was going to say the exact same thing. But then I wondered what Ustwo thinks about Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Bruce Spingsteen, etc.

Ustwo

Laugh, I never thought I've see someone try to discredit a baseball players opinion while proping up a song writers.

So basicly unless you 'speak to people where they live' you should keep your mouth shut?

Here is the issue, they are both entertainers, just because you can write a song doesn't make you in tune with people or have a clue about politics any more then you can throw a ball. Songs are not very deep, in fact they are basicly crappy poetry set to music with no real depth to them. Claiming somehow Springstein is superior because he is a singer shows just how far people are willing to go.

A lot of us working types had to admire Schilling pitching these last two weeks even has he bled, and doing an excellent job at it under extreme pressure of having a huge portion of the Unites States watching him do so.

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Ustwo

The only thing I like about Schilling is its timing with Kerry trying to tie his success with the teams. Kerry claims to be a Red Sox fan (its been shown many months ago he doesn't know a damn thing about them, and his claim of being at the crucial game in the Red Sox last big series proved to be a lie) just trying to look less like a limousine liberal.

If Schilling had used the after game press conference to shill for Bush I would have been upset, as not everything in this country needs to be political.

Edit (last 3 words got cut off)

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bling

Ah, as I suspected. I do not agree with Ustwo.

Balance has been restored.

Ustwo

I'm heart broken, really.

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Konichiwaneko

I'm so dissapointed in you guys. Telling schilling off is liking say we suck and disrespectful.

I've read up on curt schilling and he is one of the smartest if not smartest players in baseball. His approach to education and awareness is reflected in his game, that's why he is good.

You can be smart and play baseball, and you can be stupid and be successful. Do yourself a disfavor and don't discredit and individual because he doesn't agree with your views.

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Mephisto2

Who is discrediting him? The majority of posters here agree that he is perfectly entitled to his opinion. Indeed, most support his statement.

One person said they were disappointed in him. One person said "all celebrities" suck.

Mr Mephisto

daswig

I think Penn crossed the line into treason when he went to Iraq and gave them the propaganda opportunities that he did. No surprise there, eh? Robbins and Springsteen have the right to say what they want, but need to anticipate a backlash when they do by people who disagree with their positions.

The Dixie Chicks had every right to say what they did. Their fans had every right to get pissed about it and boycott, and make their opinions known to their radio stations. That's not censorship, that's "free trade".

Mephisto2

Sheesh, you like accusing people of treason daswig, don't you?

I'm glad you're not AG. Heh

Mr Mephisto

daswig

Hey, if the shoe fits, they should wear it. There's certainly precedent out there that says such conduct does indeed rise to the level of treason. Ikuko Toguri prolly thought what she was doing was OK, too. Well, at least before she was convicted of treason, sentenced to 10 years in prison, and fined $100,000...

bling

So you're trying to claim that Penn committed treason ... and in the process you are referencing a woman who's primary accusers later admitted to perjury and who was eventually pardoned by President Gerald Ford.

Odd.

Journeyman

Wait, what? You're saying that the right of a born American citizen to freedom of speech is limited to American citizens inside the country, and that citizens who exit the country for a time are then limited? Where's your precedent? Jane Fonda was never tried for treason, last I checked.

daswig

Jane Fonda wasn't tried for treason because it wouldn't have been politically expedient. There ARE precedents. Ikuko Toguri, AKA Tokyo Rose, was tried and convicted of treason for the broadcasts she made on behalf of the Japanese during WWII. She was later pardoned not because she was "innocent" (she indisputably did what she was charged with) but as a way of trying to put the war behind us. This happened a LOT after WWII...look at all of the germans and japanese who were convicted and later granted clemency.

You don't have a First Amendment right to a lot of kinds of speech. Treasonous speech that provides aid and comfort to the enemy is one of the exceptions to the First Amendment. Others include fraudulent speech, speech likely to cause an immediate breach of the peace, and so on.

daswig

And I suppose you think that the Rosenbergs had a First Amendment free speech right to pass information to the Soviet Union...but the courts didn't, so they got the gas.

bling

Please spare me the history rewriting lessons.

Superbelt

Shilling is all over the place with out of the norm allegiances.

His post game interview on the 25th, he was wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers hat

A Boston Red Sox pitcher wearing a Steelers hat days before the Patriots try to extend their win streak into the record books against the Steelers.

So, from my perspective everything is a wash. He may support the Bush, but at least he snubs the Pats in favor of my boys.

kutulu

I don't see how a muscian's opinion is any less valid than Schilling's opinion, nor the opposite. They are both equal in my book. However, that is quite a broad description of music there that you put up and for the most part it's bullshit. Just because you can't see the depth in some music doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's lots of music most people would describe as noise but to the trained ear it's as intricate as a symphony. The same goes for lyrics.

Ustwo

I can see the depth, just that most popular music is not deep.

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Superbelt

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...33&postcount=3

That's what stuffy, conservative, out of touch adults were saying back in the 1950's and 60's as well.

Ustwo

An when people grow up, they figure it out.

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Superbelt

So you think that list of music and musicians I posted, specifically the ones I posted from the vietnam era is by and large shallow?

kutulu

Well it's nice that you are the authority on that.

gibingus

hot off the wires: Schilling Cancels Appearance With Bush

schilling is not a "massachucetts liberal" or even a new england native. he's born in alaska, played college in arizona, and has bounced around the big leagues quite a bit. when he signed with the sawx last year, he specifically cited wanting to beat the yankeess in the series again as his motivation.

he's very active in causes, donates his time and name to causes freely, and is very strong in his faith. that he backs bush is no surpise, and more power to him if he wants to give a political endorsement. that he chose that exact moment to do so may not be very appropriate by some opinions, but who really cares.

in this sleazy season, conventional wisdom rules kerry gets to claim the sox win in his column. if the rightspinners can turn "massachucetts liberal" into a slur, then he gets all the fringe benefits that come with his regional affiliation. he's a huge fan and has represented the region for 20 years. players come and go, but the team belongs to beantown.

ustwo: the state of popular music is shameful. blame the record industry. but there are still artists who use their art and voices to support both sides. plenty of athletes have endorsed candidates throughout time as well.

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Ustwo

Link is broken.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

roachboy

so this has drifted from baseball players as political agents to "celebrities"--musicians in particular--a topic that has republicans have been whining forever it seems--maybe because the only musicians they seem to be able to atract are mainstream country players, and frankly i doubt even most of them want to have to listen to that.

there is a huge difference between the level of articulateness about politics you might expect from a musician and what you would expect from a baseball player. nothing personal, but the mediums are very different. in my experience, music is almost always at some level about politics, but about the politics of this particular culture, about the choices that structure it.


to back up---popular music is not one thing.
if you are not inclined to listen, it is not surprising that you will not hear anything--my father, for example, was a devoted beethoven and haydn fan--i played some webern piano music for him once, and he thought it sounded like a cat walking a piano.
this reaction said nothing about webern--all it spoke to was what my father was accustomed to and what happens when a piece of music violates the implicit rules.

that said, there are some quite complex, quite formidable music that gets lumped into the category "popular"---and some extraordinarily articulate folk involved with making it.

there are of course more and a few cretins, an more than enough stupid, obvious, simple-minded stuff as well--but anyone who has ears can distinguish them.

all i will say is that you might find more musicians were supportive of the existing order if the existing system of cultural production was not as it is---if there was, for example, more funding for the arts in general---if there was a context more generally in which doing music does not in itself seem to constitute an oppostional act--if the american reliance on commercial channels was not generative of such odious results, both at the level of process and product. were successful musicians not expected to tour as copies of their recordings. were success not as much a trap as a benefit in this area. the list goes on and on.


you reap what you sow.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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Superbelt

Ironic that Reagan tried to use this bitter diatribe from a despondent vietnam vet during his releection campaign in 1984.

I remember reading a story where both Bush and Kerry asked to use Born in the USA early in the campaign, Bruce refused them both. Course, he came around.

aliali

Bruce sure hits me where I live--I also am a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A. and hope to be a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.

If Shilling could just speak to me man, you know, where I live, with the soul and stuff, you know, in American, man, not some corporate slick rose-colored advertised and processed reality from Madison Avenue--but down with the real folks in the rust or grain or leather belt with the dirt and the real feeling, and the lonliness and the hope.

I know many people don't get baseball like many don't get Bruce the almighty, but Shilling got to people right where they live when he helped take down the Yanks in 01 with the Diamondbacks and when he helped secure the historic comeback against those same Yankess after his trade to the Sox. Sorry, its true. He shut them down with his foot bleeding and strung together with chickenwire after having a terrible outing in game 1. Bruce gets to tell the band what to play and when. Curt doesn't get to tell Jeter, Williams, Matsui, Rodriguez and the rest not to shell him. He has to go out there and get it done by himself.

But, in the end its all a piece of wood and a white ball, I probably don't really get it like I should--I'm sure if Bruce explained it to me, I would get it. Until then, I say Shill can say whatever the hell he wants.