Superbelt

This is definetley going in the right direction

I know he's a dirty word to some, but this evokes memories of the Clinton Administration. We had, most notably, William Cohen for DOD. The nation is really fractured right now. I hope Kerry does this and that the Democrats aren't so petty as to hold a grudge.

tecoyah

I have high hopes for some level of unity from both sides should Mr. Kerry take the helm. But, I also feel it will be an uphill battle for a couple years, as we are so badly divided right now. Still....this is a good sign.

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Superbelt

He has tight friendships with several high ranking Republican Senators. Luger, Hagel, Chaffe, Snowe and McCain.

That will at least help.

Irishsean

I'm not sure what I'd classify McCain as, but probly independent, not republican. He holds the views, but isn't what I'd call a member of the party.

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Leon Trotsky

Ustwo

I hope he does just as well as Clinton did, 1994 was a wonderful year.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Mephisto2

Honest question. Is this sarcasm, or did something "good" happen during 1994 when Clinton was in power?


Mr Mephisto

Ustwo

Yes and yes.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ARTelevision

administrative reminder: sarcasm does not function well here. in fact it is frowned upon because it has a deteriorative effect on mutual respect and collegiality
...

"I hope Kerry does this and that the Democrats aren't so petty as to hold a grudge."

Yes, absolutely.
This is crucial.
We are at a near crisis in our lack of cohesiveness and unity of purpose. We must rise above mere partisanship.
Thanks for the post, Superbelt.

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create evolution

Superbelt

He's referring to the Republican takeover of the House of Representatives in 1994.
Which had everything to do with a bunch of pussy democrats who wouldn't support the president from their own party. The ensuing gridlock gave the Republicans the opportunity to argue to the american people for a more efficient legislature.

Ustwo

Bush tried this, the democrats stabbed him in the back every chance they got.

The questions isn't if democrats will hold a grudge, the question is will republicans.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Superbelt

What Democrats were installed by Bush to high ranking positions? What Democrat interests were pushed during his administration?

I am more worried about after the past two years of being locked out of virtually all decision making, the democratic caucus sees Kerry installing several republicans in high positions in his administration as an affront. I would see it more as a healing process myself.
I am not too worried that the republicans will hold a grudge. For the most part the legislature will accept a transfer of power graciously in a smooth and decisive election, which we all have to just pray for right now.

ARTelevision

Good discussion. Makes me want to resurrect the non-partisan/bi-partisan threads I started about midway through this.

I hope this tack continues through a potentially disputed election process, on through January, and into the next Presidency.

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create evolution

Locobot

source Rolling Stone 11 Nov 2004, issue 961

They didn't ask about Ashcroft

Paq

I have to agree with Kerry about his assessment of bush's team. The only one i have any respect for is colin powell and they drained all of his standing with the infamous UN presentation

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Chris

Ustwo

No child left behind (Teddy Kennedy got to write the damn thing).
Perscription drug act (that was their agenda wasn't it?)

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Superbelt

No Child Left Behind, but no money to go with it.

Prescription Drug Act was a total perversion of what the Democrats wanted. That's like taking your car to a detailer and saying you want fiery flames painted on the side and you get it back with pink daisies.

Conversely, Clinton was a willing and active participant in Welfare Reform and Welfare to Work. It was a real compromise bill. It wasn't exactly what anyone wanted, but at least it signified progress.
Early in Clintons second term He and the Congress compromised and reduced taxes for most americans and at the same time they cuts spending and instituted reforms that produced a balanced budget.

Can you really come up with anything that was on par with what Clinton accomplished with a Republican Legislature?

irateplatypus

hold a grudge? against what?

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~ Winston Churchill

Superbelt

I said earlier:

roachboy

it is also tactical, this move on kerry's part: seeking to make explicit alliances with older-school republicans, the moderates, and by doing so perhaps to marginalize the bush crowd--which does not represent the whole of the republican party.

more power to him--i hope it works.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

OpieCunningham

No. What Bush tried was to tell everyone how much of a uniter he was going to be, push his conservative agenda, and let his worshippers claim the Democrats were stubborn and backstabbers because they didn't just go along with whatever the man said.

And he was able to do this because his party controls the Senate and the House - i.e. He doesn't have to compromise on anything or offer anything, but he can still pretend to claim the high ground.

flstf

This is like the sharks asking a few barracudas to join them to unite their cause. What about the rest of us fish?

daswig

It ain't gonna happen. You think we're divided now with Bush in office? Hah! If that traitorous piece of scum gets in, expect gridlock the likes of which we've never seen before.

As the saying goes: "Payback's a bitch".

Mephisto2

How very helpful.

Thank you for helping me understand this issue.

Mr Mephisto


PS - that also was sarcasm.

cthulu23

Thanks for helping us step away from ugly partisanship.

guy44

I agree that Kerry needs to include Republicans. What he really should do is get a few cabinet members who are old school Republicans - conservatives who believe in fiscal responsibility, a realist foreign policy, the transatlantic alliances, and civil liberties. This country is extremely polarized, and a Kerry administration will have to govern a country in ruin with a likely hostile Senate and House. Uniting the "old guard" of the Republicans with Democrats IS possible, especially as a reaction that both have to neocons and the Bush administration.

I do say this as a bleeding-heart liberal. Personally, if I had my way, the most conservative members of Congress would have ideologies resembling Dick Durbin's. Nonetheless, I think that as leader of this country, Kerry would do well to try and unite it, even if it means staying a little too far to the right.

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daswig

Why should the Republicans do that? The Democrats have been foaming at the mouth for the past 4 years. Why shouldn't the Republicans return the favor?

That's like an armed robber getting shot by his victim, and whining "why'd he shoot me? That bastard shouldn't have had a gun!!!"

Ustwo

I won't get worked up until AFTER the election

Bush looses then we can talk about revenge, though I doubt the Republicans will give aid and comfort to the enemy, so Iraq should at least proceed.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

daswig

Why shouldn't they give aid and comfort to the enemy? If Kerry wins, that'll show that the American people SUPPORT treason....

cthulu23

The Republicans control the Senate and White House...why the hell do you need "revenge?" People love to talk about liberal whiners, but most of the "permanent victims" that I see here are of the conservative stripe. If it isn't the media, it's the "tin foil hat" liberals all conspiring together. Can we get a little perspective?

daswig

Because the Democrats created a huge amount of gridlock, so turnabout is indeed fair game. That's not revenge, that's using the Democrat's stategy against them, which certainly IS fair.

cthulu23

In another thread you argued for gridlock so please spare us the crocodile tears.

Mephisto2

"revenge"
"bitch"
"payback"
"why should we?"
"treason"
"tin foil hat"
"liberal media" (why is that a bad thing, any more than "conservative media"?)
"gridlock"
"turnabout"



It must be great to be a "compassionate conservative". I only wish I were so perfect, so above criticism, so confident in my righteousness... I'd love to live like that.


Mr Mephisto

daswig

My position is consistent. In the other thread, I argued for gridlock. In this thread, I'm arguing for gridlock. We're talking about the republicans "playing ball" with the democrats so that the Democratic agenda gets pushed forward. I oppose that, and don't think that the Republicans should "play ball".

daswig

Please quote where I've EVER said that I was a "compassionate conservative". I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from calling me names. My wife just walked by, read what you and I wrote, and said "When have you EVER said you were compassionate about anything???" Gawd, I love my wife...

cthulu23

Nope, in this thread you are swearing "revenge" on the Democrats for their tendencies that have contributed to gridlock. Shouldn't you be congratulating them?

daswig

Please quote where I used the word "revenge". I'd appreciate it if when you quote me, you actually "quote" me, if you know what I mean, rather than put words into my mouth that I didn't say. Thanks in advance.

cthulu23

You're right, you didn't use the word "revenge" (that was Ustwo), but you did say:
"Payback" meaning, perhaps, revenge? I believe that the intent is clear.

Mephisto2

Kudos to your wife. It sounds like she has a sense of humour!

Now, to the point you raised.

If you look carefully at the words I quoted, you will note that they include quotations from the posts of Ustwo. Ustwo described himself as a compassionate conservative, so I used that term (in quote marks).

It was an attempt to be concilatory actually. Many of you use the term "liberal" as an insult, though I personally wear it as a badge of honour (only in the US does it seem to be a bad thing to be liberal!). Conversely, and to ensure you wouldn't be insulted, I didn't use the general term "conservative", but the nicer phrase (if you will) of "compassionate conservative".

So, the quotations above were not only from YOUR posts, but many of your fellow board members. I think we all now accept you, personally, are NOT a compassionate conservative.




Mr Mephisto

OpieCunningham

Pride in a lack of compassion. How anti-human of you.

OpieCunningham

Yes, but you see - that's because Liberals are bad and Conservatives are not. Ergo, Republican-induced gridlock is most excellent, and Democrat-induced gridlock is purely vile.

It's all very simple.