Rekna

what qualifies as a terrorist organization?

pedro padilla

delusion seems to be the current state of mind. Aid to a terrorist organization? Your income tax. Every dollar that goes to supporting Israel, (17 million every day) comes from your pocket. 48 homes demolished in the last 36 hours, more than 150 families, kids, mamas, grammas, now live in the dirt. Terrorists? No, just guilty of being palestinean. Smells a lot like genocide to me.
but oh yes, forgive me. Back to the muslim ex pop singer. Knowing aid to terrorists ? Somebodys been watchin too much Fox news.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...news-headlines

As my grampa used to say..." whatta maroon!" And gee, look what happens when he sues.....http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...n_040925223243
spelling error. Didn´t Ted Kennedy, (that terrorist scum) just get bumped from his 4 times weekly (25 years) boston - D.C flight in the name of national security?
knowing aid? Show me.

Boo

If the US has information even suggesting that he is in any way linked to any terrorist group, then let him stay out. We need to actively pursue and eliminate terrorists and their supporters. If we are in error and do not have evidence, we need to apoligise and open our border to him.

After 21 years in the military, let me assure you that there are things you don't know. Things that are known only in small rooms with no windows. Things that make me sleep better at night. No, you are not privileged to this information and yes there are people much smarter than you are. Blind faith in your government is not required, but you need to give a little credit to the people doing a tough job in a tough world.

__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.

Rekna

again I state if the government had credible evidence that he was aiding terroists then they should have held him and charged him. They don't have any evidence other than that he is an Islamic activist. While the government making blanket descisions about people based on their religious or political beliefs may make you sleep well at night, it makes my stomach turn.

Maybe we should just throw all people we think may have somehow supported "terrorism" (used lightly) into jails without trials. Wait we already do that it is called Guantonamo. So lets go a step further let's throw all brown skinned people into interrment camps. But why stop there let's throw all Muslims into prison camps. And while were at it to many black people commit violent crimes let's throw them into camps too. Why don't we just become a Nazi regiem and take away all that the people before us fought for. This is where we are heading when we start making blanket decisions.

Rekna

I'm Christian and this statement insults me. I don't think the problem is mosts terrorists are muslims. I think the problem is we are just quick to label a muslim that does evil a terrorist and don't like to use the term for anyone that isn't muslim.

pedro padilla

where the hell is all this evidence of aid and support for the terrorists? If you got a full house you lay it on the table. You will not take the pot unless I see your hand. You got the cards and there is no argument but I will never trust a proven bullshitter until I see em face up. National security concerns will never convince me. If you won´t show me, I know my pair of twos has you out of the game.

Boo

What if the "credible evidence" is also critical in stopping the 27 member team that he is supporting? What if stating it at this time would jeopardize 2 US operatives that have spent 3 years getting into position? Again I say, there are things happening that you nor I will be privy to. If Cat Stevens has become unwelcome in the US because of his statements or actions, that is his personal problem.

I do like how the US rejecting one person (we let his daughter in) is now a blanket statement. I suppose that no people of the muslim faith were let into the US since 911. There is no blanket policy regarding muslims, therefore, your second paragraph belongs in Tilted Paranoia.

__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.

pedro padilla

27 member team? 2 U.S. ops spending 3 years getting in position? Mister secret service army guy, one question. Are you exceeding the state laws of Alaska regarding personal cultivation and consumption of marijuana? cause doood, you are way high.

you know I´ve seen alot of what the world can do
and it´s breakin my heart in two

Boo

Those were possible samples of why the US did not tip our hand. If you assume that fighting terrorism is a simple matter with black and white solutions, Mister pair of twos will be even more disappointed than you seem.

No I did not smoke dinner. While Alaska has awesome weed, I do not partake at this time.

you know I've seen alot of what the world can do
and I expect the US government to spend wakeless nights
keeping them away from me and mine.
It won't break my heart
Keep the fuckers out or put them in jail.

__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.

pedro padilla

people like you worry me much much more than cat stevens. blind faith is one thing, wide eyed justification of the current fascistic politics of fear is another thing entirely. I´m glad you believe there are serious manipulations taking place behind our backs. Personally, I doubt the scheming bastards have our best interests at heart. Shouldn´t you be out shooting animals or something

Boo

Does holding people responsible for their actions and utilizing a "tool" such as limiting their freedom to enter the United States worry you? We are not arbitrarily denying people entry into the US. I limit entry into my house. I would not let a person that advocates killing a person for their writings into my home. Why would I not expect it from my country? Obviousy, there was a reason to deny that single person entry.

How did we get here from Cats in the Cradle? Are we making more of this than there is?

I believe that there are people doing the difficult and very non-popular job of protecting our nation. I believe that they will make mistakes, go overboard, miss things and hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Opinions vary.

Does this mean that you no longer wish to hear my opinion concerning this thread? Good day and don't forget to read the rules of Tilted Politics.

__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.

smooth

Your premise seems to be that arresting and charging someone (in this particular case, Cat Stevens) will alert the more distant network he is supporting.

If true, wouldn't the action of questioning and denying someone entry into the States have the same effect?

I mean, the terrorist network that he may be supporting now knows the intelligence community is on to them. Do I read you correctly that accosting Stevens would have alerted them of the government's knowledge that they exist?


Also, how does sending Stevens back to the UK do anything at all? Is he being denied entry for his ties to terrorists abroad? And if so, what would letting him visit the States with his daughter do to our collective safety? How exactly would our safety be undermined by him being here, yet bolstered by him being sent back to the UK?

Why hasn't he been more closely scrutinized on the other side of the pond? It would seem that while we aren't privy to certain info, the British Military Intelligence would be--especially, since Britian is our most vocal and tangible ally in our current endeavors?

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

smooth

COMMENTARY
Something Bad Has Begun
* The former Cat Stevens says he hasn't changed but the U.S. has.


By Yusuf Islam, Yusuf Islam, the singer formerly known as Cat Stevens, was deported to Britain last week after being refused entry into the United States.

--http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-islam28sep28,1,5160393.story

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Pacifier

< conservative paranoia >
Thats the proof, Clintons have ties to AlQuaida
< /conservative paranoia >

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

powerclown

Cat Stevens was guest of Canadian Hamas front

Hamas sympathizer, eh? Since Hamas is a terrorist organization, I agree with their decision to send him a-packin. No soup for the Cat.

Lebell

Ok,

I've read this thread with interest, trying to formulate an opinion on these events.

If the last is true, that Yusuf/Cat was the guest of honor at a Hamas front organization, then this is particularly damning, IMO.

Of course, the question remains did he know it, does he know it now, and if so, does he still support them?


As to the piece he wrote that smooth posted, I would be interested in hearing his view of the situation in Israel and what should be done.

I also note that he didn't actually clarify the Salmon Rushdie affair. Does he or does he not support killing the man for something he wrote, either by an assassin or by a "legitimate" islamic government?

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

james t kirk

Sorry if it insults you.

I realize it's politically incorrect, however, it is pretty much the case.

When was the last time you saw a Christian chopping some muslim's head off in front of a video camera while he was sceaming "God is Great"

The only time you will hear a Christian say, "God is Great" is just before he says, "God is good, let us than him for the food"

Lets face facts, Islam is a religion with as severe image problem on its hands. They are a young religion and have never had a reformation. Just look at their subjegation of women, and their attitude towards nonbelievers.

You want to read an excellent book, read "The trouble with Islam" by Irshad Manji (a nice girl from Toronto who is a conflicted muslim.)

http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/

Rekna

Does bombing them over and over again while claiming god is great count? If so you can look at Bush.

cthulu23

As was posted a page of comments ago, it is now claimed that Cat Stevens was the victim of a clerical error. From Yahoo News :

Now whether you believe this was a legitimate case of speliing error or embarrased state department backpedaling, we can obviously see that our government does not consider him a threat....or at least not enough of a threat to warrant the embarrasment of deporting him.

pedro padilla

Mister boo, indeed you are right and i would like to apologize for the six pack of bile. Uncalled for and very counter productive to any intelligent form of debate.
I will try to curb my moments of stupidity in the future. Apologies.

Bookman

We need to hear the evidence before we defame and miscategorize any individual. These acts of premature defamation are 100% not in-line with what this country stands for and what we used to justify all these terrorist prevention actions since 9-11. The taxpaying public is in no way required to just take what the administration says in fear of being labeled "one-of-them".
On a personal note it is an insult to many of our intelligence that we are left with little information to analyze and just press-releases to accept and believe.

What groups did he support which were linked to Hamas?

powerclown

Indeed. The fact that these links with Hamas of Mr. Islam's, which Israel apparently knew about as well, weren't mentioned in the mainstream press at all is something of a mystery to me also.

OFKU0

I don't know if Cat Stevens knew he was supporting terror or not. Who does? But the ties to calling Israel a 'so-called new society' and 'so-called religion' surely puts him at the fore front as a terrorist since free speech doesn't apply to anything Israeli related unless it is a ringing endorsement. Other words it's hate propoganda. Therefore he must be a terrorist.

As for the source, the National Post, I would consider others before this rag since this paper is so pro-Israeli it is ridiculous. Wouldn't surprise me if the context has been changed to put Cat Stevens in a negative light. Afterall this is a paper that changed a Reuters story last week (the wording, to suit it's needs) without permission from Reuters to do so.

Also this same paper yesterday justified Israel going into Syria to blow up a terrorist. I don't have a problem with Israel killing terrorists. But just doing as they please in another country devoid of all diplomacy? Oh, I forgot, this is Israel we are speaking of. They can do what ever they want when they want to. I can just imagine the U.S response if Canada blew up a terrorist like Israel did, say in mid-town Manhattan in the middle of the day without any dialogue between the countries. Do you think the U.S would be pissed? But I digress.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Mojo_PeiPei

Well it's one thing when countries like Syria knowingly harbor and sanction terrorism and terrorists in the country, and allow them to use it as a base of operations.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

jb2000

Yes, it is different than Canada striking in the US. Syria and Israel are at war still, and have no lost love between them. As for whose harboring terrorists, forget it, they are both immoral, illegal, and detested combatants to each other (that's their view of eachother), whatever labels are applied. Until one of them takes a serious step to peace, whatever they do to each other is pretty much fair game.