hammer4all

More evidence of Moore's "real agenda":

60 percent of the movie's net profit will ultimately go to charity.

Most of "Fahrenheit 9/11" profits will be given away

wonderwench

Being somewhat familiar with the accounting practises of the entertainment industry, net profit is calculated after the application of an enormous amount of overhead. The distributors will personally proft via the overhead allocations.

brianna

you accuse a lot of people of posting personal conspiracy theories as fact -- so if you want to make a statement implying that moore is lying about giving money to charity you better follow your own advice and give us some proof beyond your supposed expertise.

no one is denying that moore is going to make some profit off of his work on this film but he is hardly the hypocrite that you accuse him of being (an uninformed accusation that you still continue to make despite not having seen the film in question). He is putting his views out for people to see, apparently A LOT of people are interested and, lucky him, he gets to make a profit while doing something he's passionate about -- would that all of us were so lucky.

wonderwench

I did not say he was lying. I just pointed out that entertainment accounting, especially that of movies, is extremely complicated. Nobody with any saavy accepts a cut of the net - they always try to go for a percentage of the gross.

kutulu

Donating a portion of the gross would be pretty stupid. What if the movie didn't even make it's money back?

The truth is that you strted this thread as an attempt to bring Moore down and say he's all about the money. 3 pages later we've proved you wrong over and over again. Why not just admit that you were full of it?

wonderwench

LOL!

I don't think I have been refuted. What I am full of is righteous contentment in my opinion that Moore is a hypocritical windbag.

matteo101

Kutulu said it best, you have got nothing, you tried to make Moore look bad, but he is going to be giving millions and millions away to charities...You need to know when to admit that you don't know everything in the world..you need to know when you are wrong...

wonderwench

Hahahaha!

You have no idea what the Net Profit will be. I hope it is millions and millions. One thing is for certain, however; none of us will have the opportunity to see what expenses are charged to the P&L in order to calculate the net profit.

tecoyah

This is also why....I now just sit and watch.....more the pity.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

brianna

tecoyah: it is a pity, i can relate completly -- though i'd love to have you back in the game all the same.

wonderwench

I agree. It is a pity when people decide not to participate because differing opinions are expressed.

matteo101

Seeing as how the movie has made 60 million at the box office in only the first two weeks..add on the next month or so of box office, add on dvd sales, and this movie will easily gross 100 million..probably alot more.
I can not see this movie costing anymore more then 10 milion to make(no cast etc) , and various expensive ile say 10 million( I do not know anything about movie budgets or expenses so these sums could be totally off)... hmm that leaves 80 million..60 percent of 80 million is 48 million... that is most certainly "millions and millions" even if my estimates were off by millions..there would still be alot of money generated to charities..

Kadath

Snide!

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it's quiet in here

silent_jay

Well informed about the film because you saw a couple of 30 second trailers and saw Mr. Moore on a few TV shows. I beg to differ. Watch the whole film instead of some trailers maybe then your argument will hold water but as for now all you seem to be doing is regurgitating the opinions of a few different news agencies, and people who didn't like Mr. Moore in the first place.

Oh yeah stopping the spread of communism, that was the "conflict" in Vietnam, which then spread to Cambodia, and Laos. That went real well, as I remember. Started with another false aquisation the Tonkin Gulf Incident, much like WMD, but that is another topic altogether

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

wonderwench

Yes, as a matter of fact, we were quite successful.

The U.S.S.R. has been dissolved. The Berlin Wall came down. Democracy is spreading.

I, for one, applaud the trend.

silent_jay

Where is democracy spreading Iraq and Afghanistan? With two puppet governments, not likely. Vietnam didn't do what it intended to do which was to stop the spread of communism throughout SE Asia. The USSR may have been dissolved and the Berlin Wall did come down, but those are old news do you have anything new?

I still am not sure how you can base your opinion on this movie by watching some trailers and intrerviews, with all the time you have spent arguing about it you could have just watched the movie and made your own valid opinion, instead of taking what news agencies have already said.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

wonderwench

As you see Iraq and Afghanistan as merely puppet governments, there is no way to convince you. Fortunately, the process towards sovereignity is moving forward in each of these.

Eastern Europe is filled with newly free countries, btw.

Kadath

wonderwench, the US may be spreading democracy, but that doesn't detract from the fact that you cannot be well-informed about this film without seeing it.

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it's quiet in here

silent_jay

What are the governments in Iraq and Afghanistan then?
Much along the same lines as you see Mr. Moore as a money grubber, and three pages of people providing truth to the contrary hasn't convinced you of anything.

Name some please, back up your information.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

silent_jay

so true

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

wonderwench

The governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are fledgling representative ones. Democracy is not an instant gratification phonomenon. It requires deliberation, negotiation and the finalization of a constitution. Both countries are engaged in this process.

The three pages of discussion to the contrary offer no proof - just hystrionics.


Here you go (all former communist/socialist states):

Bulgaria - parliamentary republic
Czech Republic - parliamentary republic
Estonia - parliamentary democracy
Hungary - republic
Latvia - unicameral democracy
Lithuania - parliamentary republic
Poland - bicameral republic
Romania - parliamentary republic
Slovakia - parliamentary republic
Slovenia - parliamentary republic

tecoyah

As many here can attest....I have no problem with the many views held by members at TFP, and in fact the reason I frequent this board is to learn from these opinions. Perhaps it is the WAY in which said opinions are articulated that has pushed me to lurker status. As it is, the snide and sarcastic remarks are something I can do without.
Fortunately, as in the past, this will be quelled before long, at which point I will of course return to full participation.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

wonderwench

Whatever. I find your behavior to be rather passive-aggressive and incredibly transparent. You are trying to make your distaste for my posts into a board issue with your "it's a pity" comments.

On a board with over 30,000 members, there are plenty of like-minded individuals with whom to engage. Fixating on me with your "pity" is rather pointless given the size and variety of the community.

kutulu

You're the one who started this thread with a lot of baseless claims. You have yet to back up shit. On the other hand we show you that he is going to donate millions of dollars and all you can say is that numbers can be fudged. We show you that he's encouraging people to download the movie (much to the dismay of the distributer). We show you plenty of other cases that show he's not in it just for a payday but according to you it's just histrionics. It's far more likely that you are the one guilty of being histronic.

You haven't seen the movie but somehow you "know" what Moore is about because of some interviews you've seen and columns by people who don't like him.

Kadath

And it would be great if wonderwench and tecoyah took their bickering to PMs or, even better, stopped altogether. Personal attacks need to end or this thread will vanish...come to think of it, that'd be okay.

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it's quiet in here

silent_jay

I don't want to see the thread vanish, but yes the personal attacks do need to cease.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

tecoyah

Agreed....my apologies

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

silent_jay

not a problem

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

powerclown

It might be interesting to read what Moore's fans here do in fact think his agenda in making this film is.....

cthulu23

Let's see...this is what I said about 60 posts ago:

And that's just my post.

What do you think his real aganda is? Illuminati conspiracy? Alliance with the Chinese to disparage America? Making money in the fantastically profitable left-wing advocacy field?

wonderwench

Then why not call his film what it is:

Political commentary?

cthulu23

Aarrrggghhh! Because it's a documentary, maybe?!

Ok, I feel better.

Geez, I don't mean to get bent out of shape, but how many times can you repeat that the flick isn't a documentary? It's a damn political commentary documentary. The two are not exclusive.

tecoyah

To influence as many people as possible, with an interpretation of the events, that is slanted by the film makers own position. I am not a fan, but I do appreciate what he is attempting to accomplish, and respect the effort.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

analog

wonderwench

I can live with political commumentary.

I think we need to revise the way documentaries are defined - similar to the distinctions made between news reporting and editorials.

kutulu

*Hopefully I'm detecting a trend. My posts are now subject to a level of scrutiny never before realized. In fact, I'm glad I have an admin moderating me.*

analog

I think people need to remove their heads from their asses and realize it's a moot point at best whether it's a "documentary" or not. Assigning an absolute definition will still not change what it is.

No matter how factually accurate, every documentary has a slant. Every documentary is produced to facilitate this slant. For example: A documentary about WWII made in America will have a different slant than one made in Germany, or Japan- this does not mean they're not all technically accurate. They're just slanted to accomodate the message.

Perhaps more people should rely on real information sources rather than MOVIES. Documentary or not, it's still a MOVIE.

EDIT:
This is irrelevent. Net profit is net profit. They are giving away 60% of what is left when all the bills are paid, which are numerous and very costly. You have to pay the bills before you give money away. Nobody with any savvy gives away money before they know what they will make in net profit.

wonderwench

Hmmm....I believe that quite a few posts have been made in the Lies thread which do successfully challenge the facts.

kutulu

many have tried, all have failed. That is another thread though. The truth is though that since you haven't seen the movie, you don't know the facts in the movie. One article in particular was completely incorrect.

wonderwench

It is not irrelevant. Hollywood is rife with lawsuits because of the accounting tricks which reduce the net.