wonderwench

Let's address the lies in the lies thread.

This thread is about the conflict between Moore's personal advantage and his stated politics.

I am still wondering how his support of Nader is going to affect Kerry - and how it may ensure Bush's re-election.

kutulu

*why the hell am I so angry?*

cthulu23

Michael Moore is not supporting Nader this time and has publically apologized to Al Gore for his Nader support 4 years ago.

wonderwench

I pointed out earlier in this thread that Moore actually helps the conservative cause by being such an extreme blowhard - his distortions energize the base and alienate moderate undecided voters.

I don't see conservative groups trying to bring him down. In fact, many commentators are encouraging people to see the film in order to understand how biased it is.

cthulu23

Some conservative groups have pressured theaters not to run the film. I believe that they were successful in one or two areas. This sounds like some conservatives are "trying to bring him down" to me.

kutulu

*I must learn to play better with others*

uncle phil

kutulu - COOL IT!!!

one more of those types of attacks and you will be the proud recipient of an official warning...and in the interest of sensibilities, please clean up the visual and verbal language in your avatar and sig...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
-----------------------------------------
"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
-----------------------------------------
never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

matteo101

Moore has publically stated that in the 2000 election, that if you lived in a swing state, a state in which it was close, that you should vote for Gore. He supported Nader only in states which Gore was the favorite.
This year he is encouraging everyone to vote against Bush..and if you live in a state where Kerry is the likely favorite, to travel to a state in which Bush has a chance to win, and vote there.

wonderwench

And other chains / theatres have jumped on the opportunity to make big bucks. I don't see that a few protests have hurt the box office.

wonderwench

We will see if this strategy works in November. Moderate Americans, by whom this election will be decided, generally do not respond well to hate-filled messages and negative campaigning. They want to know for what they are voting - not what they are voting against.

Kerry is going to have a tough time on the national security front given his voting record and Edward's complete inexperience in foreign policy. I doubt that Nader will cooperate with the Moore strategy, btw. He has his own ego to feed.

josobot

Michael Moore is a cross between someone with a Jesus complex and a money-grubbin evangelist...he's popular because of his clown persona...Insane Clown Posse for the masses.

cthulu23

I never said that it hurt the film. I was refuting your claim that no conservatives were "trying to bring him down."

powerclown

Moore was on the Charlie Rose Show (interview show) on July 1 2004.
He was asked why he made the movie. Moore replied, "To get Bush out of Office."

Now, even if F911 was perfect, that there was no argument as to the validity of his facts or the way he chose to present them, you've got to ask yourself:
-Is this where I want to learn about whats going on in the world?
-Do I want to get my information from someone as controversial as Michael Moore?
-Are movies supposed to help decide democratic Presidential elections?

Whether its the news on TV, on the internet, in the newspapers, magazines, books, wherever, its always nice to know the slant (and everyone has one) of the author.

cthulu23

I wouldn't think that Michael Moore's slant is very well hidden. Whatever the case, I seriously doubt that this movie will play any significant role in the outcome of the election. Of course, every artist/journalist/citizen has the write to express themselves politically however they so chose, election year or no election year.

kutulu

If that's the case then Bush is in trouble. He has run far more negative campaign ads than Kerry

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...n-ad-index.htm


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...analysis_x.htm

matteo101

Interesting Kutulu...it looks quite certain that if what Wonderwench said is true, Bush will be gone...yay

kutulu

I don't know. You can't generalize a group that large. You also have to factor in that most people in the country are pretty dumb and take a lot of what's heard at face value. I hate misleading ads the most.

HeAtHeN

Mr Moore loves his country and wants to see it ran better than it is now.... for that I commend him.

Of course he wants to get paid... don't we all....

__________________