a new political party, help - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Paq · 03-19-2004, 11:23 PM

hi there

most of you know i'm fairly liberal with some conservative slants, depends on the issues.

i was talkig wtih my very conservative boss today and we realized we actually agree on many issues

actually, i've been talking to quite a few people, both liberal and conservative and amazingly..we share quite a bit in common.

Soo, i talked it over with my boss and with other people and we decided we really need a 'boston tea party' of sorts. A serious political revolution.
The two party system just isn't cutting it.

sooo, in regards to that, i am going to start a micro-campaign and see where it takes us. My party will be nicknamed the "common sense" party. Not sure of a real name. basically, we want as little gov't involvement in personal lives and as much accountability from gov't as possible. Everythig else is up in the air.

So, that's where this lovely board comes into play.

Basically, i want to know what concerns you most about politicians and the party with which you ascribe. I would like to try to avoid "towing the party line" and would like you to voice what you would really want in a party. This info will be used in a questionairre that will be given to many local businessmen, professors, politicians, even door to door.

I just wnat to know what issues you are concerned with, whatyou would like to see a politician do, what you believe firmly, and what you would like to see politicians doing less of.

Thanks for any help at all.

As for me. My main concerns wiht politicians, etc, can be summed up pretty easily. I would like to keep gov't out of my personal life. I don't want people telling me what i can and cannot do wthi my body or wiht another consenting adult. I'm not gay, i don't do any drugs other than caffeine, and i am really sickened by the amount of say the gov't has in what i can conceivably do. It is annoying to think someone could be jailed for any number of reasons that do not affect anyone other than that person or that person and another consenting adult. It just doesn't make sense.

I don't like politicians to refuse to show where tax money is really going. I hate trying to find out how much money is collected vs how much actually goes to whatever programs. This is 'our' money, so we should know, and have input, on where it goes, no?

I would like to see some actual honesty in politicians. I don't care if what you say is PC, if it's the truth, spit it out. We currently give quite a bit of money and concessions to the local indian tribe that opened a bingo parlor. It is housed in what used to be the local mall and it nets more than $500,000 profit per MONTH (50,000 people in this town with an average family of 4 income of $32,000, $500K per month is quite a bit, almost half of what the local walmart does in sales) Anyway, some politicians are roasted for thinking that this group should pay some form of rent or taxes for the land they use, etc when any other group would be paying out the ying for this property. it's not even open for debate anymore, they are tax exempt, but they are one of the highest grossing businesses around. No one will say anything and yet, our tax money helps fund this. to me, that's discriminatory. If they were under nonprofit organization, maybe, but as it is, they are run just as an unregulated business. The only thing they are explicitly not allowed to do is sell alcohol on sunday bc it's against the blue laws.
At any rate, i have seen at least 4 local politicians get lambasted by media, etc, bc they speak out abuot the discriminatory policy.

I am also for politicians to actually represent the actual people. Many MAAANNNYYY politicians here have their own agendas. Half of the city council are related, the former mayor was pres of hte debutante club in 1957 and has ties throughout hte whole city and everyone of them seems to be after the most money, one way or another. They will...randomly enforce some areas, push money over to certain areas, do whatever to help out the family member of the day. It's pretty sickening. I would like to see an actual elected official actually pay attention to the constituents. Far too often in politics, the actual people are forgotten.

These are my pretty short answers, sorry for going on a tirade, but it's just an illustration.

Anyway, my main question is: What would you look for in an ideal candidate. Leave party affiliation out. Any specific traits, etc.

thanks

Halx · 03-19-2004, 11:33 PM

I'll be your candidate, even though I hate partisan politics.

Paq · 03-20-2004, 12:03 AM

that's the problem with politics and what we hope to circumvent. I don't want to be partisan, i want a party that is based on common sense and an ability to take each issue on its own, not to tow the party line, so to speak.

Halx · 03-20-2004, 12:42 AM

So endorse me all ready.

HarmlessRabbit · 03-20-2004, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paq
that's the problem with politics and what we hope to circumvent. I don't want to be partisan, i want a party that is based on common sense and an ability to take each issue on its own, not to tow the party line, so to speak.

Heh, but a party *is* partisan. That's what a party does. (Look up partisan in the dictionary.) A party where each individual makes up their own mind isn't a party. (Well, it could be a party, if you had a dj and chips and beer, and that could be fun and all, but it wouldn't be a political party.)

My ideal candidate would be socially liberal (gay marriage, limited drug legalization, right-to-organize for all workers, universal healthcare) and economically conservative (smaller government, smarter government, soft money bans, pork barrel funding changes, more sunshine into black DoD projects). I guess the party that represents my view best in the USA would be the Greens or the Libertarians.

tecoyah · 03-20-2004, 05:11 AM

Primary concern...corporate ownership of government.

Secondary....lack of transparancy.

Halx for prez.....ah hell, why not....you got my vote.

seretogis · 03-21-2004, 08:29 AM

No offense, but the last thing that we need is another political party. If 350 million people each have their own political party, we will get nowhere. Instead, we need people to step up and voice their opinions and enact change in other parties. I would love to see the Libertarian Party create some sort of a realistic set of goals for their party (based on Libertarian ideals) and then promote them -- instead of merely running on the "big government sucks" platform, and losing.

Thagrastay · 03-21-2004, 08:49 AM

Few people understand that the Federal Reserve system is not owned or controlled by our Federal Government but is a privately owned and controlled banking system. The Chairman of the Federal Reserve is appointed by a sitting President, but serves a six year term, and so is effectively serving out of reach of the President that appoints him/her.
Ask your self about our national debt- If we run and control our own federal reserve, then to whom do we owe this debt? The problem is that we do not run our own economy. It is run for us by outside banking interests.
I would like to see the abolition of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Income Tax.
I would also like to see the control of Education and Taxation and transportation be returned to the individual States.
This is the computer age, and it is now possible for every registered voter to vote on every issue necessary.
Eliminate lobbies. Select Congressmen and Representatives the same way they do Jurists and make it mandatory that once the committment has been served, the former servant return to their constituency. Make the pay for serving as a congressman or representative the median pay of the constituency from which they came, and the only way in which it can be raised is if the median level of the constituency's increases.
Daily, the issues are emailed to the constituency, they vote on it, the returns are tabulated and the representative votes the majority. If there is a deviation from the majority vote, the representative goes to prison. Case closed. That way the majority rules, Lobbyists are eliminated and you have a true democracy.
Hail, Hail, the gang's all here!
IMHO.
But first, that federal reserve has got to go.
The day before that was put in place, we had ZERO national debt. Because we borrowed from nobody. WE had no paper money. We did not operate on the fractional reserve system and fiat notes were unheard of. We operated on the constitutional gold standard and we had no debt.
Now the Bankers own the country and they are into us up to our eye balls.
Ask yourself- to whom do we owe our national debt? How can we owe ourselves? If so, why not just cancel the debt? Remember, the United States did that once before and it resulted in the Civil War. We need to do it again, but this time it could start world war III.

iccky · 03-21-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Daily, the issues are emailed to the constituency, they vote on it, the returns are tabulated and the representative votes the majority. If there is a deviation from the majority vote, the representative goes to prison. Case closed. That way the majority rules, Lobbyists are eliminated and you have a true democracy.

There are a number of problems with this. I'll just say three of them.

1. The people do not, and can not, understand all of the complexities of every issue that comes up before every level of government. Its not a matter of the people being stupid, its a metter of the huge time commitment that this would require.

Which leads me to point number two...

2. The vast majority of people will not commit the time necessary for democracy that is any more direct then what we have now. If you look at any polls of public knowledge about government, you find that most people don't know even the most basic facts about government. Its not because information about government is hard to come by, and, again, its not because they're stupid. Its because they have better things to do then be political junkies. Only a very small segment of the population pays enought attention to make this sort of thing work. The rest simply won't participate.

Which leads to point number three...

3. Since most people have better things to do then be political junkies, this sort of government (or, indeed, any further devolution of power to "the people") would not be rule by "the people." It would be an oligarchy of political junkies, like you and me. Which would be really great for you and me, but you could hardly call it democracy. And, lets face it, political junkies are hardly representative of the rest of America. We're wealthier, more educated, and I imagine whiter.

In short, this sort of system would not bring about more democracy. It would bring about an oligarchy of educated people with a lot of time on their hands. Which is fine if thats what you're going for, but please don't call it democracy or rule by "the people".

Sorry for this horrible threadjack, it just really gets my juices up when people propose things like this.

Thagrastay · 03-22-2004, 08:34 AM

I understand the dangers of this proposition very well and I'm glad you pointed them out.
In short, this is what has already happened to our current political system through lobbyists and special interest groups. I am not so certain it would necessarily become an oligarchy- presently one could say that is what we already have with the Supreme court, but a "Good Ol' Boy" club might be close. The same as what is in place in Washington now.
There are plenty of kinks that would ne to be worked out in a system like that but the c=accountability factor would be much greater and the possibility of meddling via lobbies and special interests would be almost nonexistent.
Politics is very messy. I'm sorry to have gotten your juices up.
There are always ways to keep honest people honest. Educating the masses is one way as well.

animosity · 03-22-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
My ideal candidate would be socially liberal (gay marriage, limited drug legalization, right-to-organize for all workers, universal healthcare) and economically conservative (smaller government, smarter government, soft money bans, pork barrel funding changes, more sunshine into black DoD projects). I guess the party that represents my view best in the USA would be the Greens or the Libertarians.

i find myself and many others my age seem to be feeling this way aswell. i think the main parties are about to shift when the new generation actually starts to vote... i mean look at the last presidential election, 3rd party did suprisingly well...

i dont know what to say about a new party... my views are mostly the same as libertarians. maybe we should all just pledge to actually vote for a 3rd party. even though they may not win.. our voices will be heard... i know a lot of people that wanted to vote 3rd party in the last presidential election but didnt because they didnt want to "waste" their vote... its only wasting your vote if you dont let your voice be heard.

Bill O'Rights · 03-24-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by animosity
i know a lot of people that wanted to vote 3rd party in the last presidential election but didnt because they didnt want to "waste" their vote... its only wasting your vote if you dont let your voice be heard.

*sniff*

Truer words were never written.

Bill O'Rights · 03-24-2004, 03:00 PM

Thagrastay,you raise several good points. However, bear in mind that we are a Republic, and not a Democracy, for good reason. If everyone had a true voice, then the uneducated would vote for whatever some voice on the radio told them what "ought to be". Plus, as iccky pointed out, we have people to look out for the issues for us, because we simply do not have the time, or the resources, to effectively survey the minutia of each issue that comes forward.

I would, however, look favorably upon the dissolution of the Federal Reserve System, and the repealment of the Federal Income Tax as we know it. I would favor either a "Flat Tax", based on income, or a Federal Sales Tax. With the sales tax, the monies available to the Federal Government rest soley on comsumer confidence (no sales = no sales tax), thereby encouraging lawmakers to focus on the economic well being of the consumer, and not corporate special interests.

03-19-2004, 11:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	a new political party, help hi there most of you know i'm fairly liberal with some conservative slants, depends on the issues. i was talkig wtih my very conservative boss today and we realized we actually agree on many issues actually, i've been talking to quite a few people, both liberal and conservative and amazingly..we share quite a bit in common. Soo, i talked it over with my boss and with other people and we decided we really need a 'boston tea party' of sorts. A serious political revolution. The two party system just isn't cutting it. sooo, in regards to that, i am going to start a micro-campaign and see where it takes us. My party will be nicknamed the "common sense" party. Not sure of a real name. basically, we want as little gov't involvement in personal lives and as much accountability from gov't as possible. Everythig else is up in the air. So, that's where this lovely board comes into play. Basically, i want to know what concerns you most about politicians and the party with which you ascribe. I would like to try to avoid "towing the party line" and would like you to voice what you would really want in a party. This info will be used in a questionairre that will be given to many local businessmen, professors, politicians, even door to door. I just wnat to know what issues you are concerned with, whatyou would like to see a politician do, what you believe firmly, and what you would like to see politicians doing less of. Thanks for any help at all. As for me. My main concerns wiht politicians, etc, can be summed up pretty easily. I would like to keep gov't out of my personal life. I don't want people telling me what i can and cannot do wthi my body or wiht another consenting adult. I'm not gay, i don't do any drugs other than caffeine, and i am really sickened by the amount of say the gov't has in what i can conceivably do. It is annoying to think someone could be jailed for any number of reasons that do not affect anyone other than that person or that person and another consenting adult. It just doesn't make sense. I don't like politicians to refuse to show where tax money is really going. I hate trying to find out how much money is collected vs how much actually goes to whatever programs. This is 'our' money, so we should know, and have input, on where it goes, no? I would like to see some actual honesty in politicians. I don't care if what you say is PC, if it's the truth, spit it out. We currently give quite a bit of money and concessions to the local indian tribe that opened a bingo parlor. It is housed in what used to be the local mall and it nets more than $500,000 profit per MONTH (50,000 people in this town with an average family of 4 income of $32,000, $500K per month is quite a bit, almost half of what the local walmart does in sales) Anyway, some politicians are roasted for thinking that this group should pay some form of rent or taxes for the land they use, etc when any other group would be paying out the ying for this property. it's not even open for debate anymore, they are tax exempt, but they are one of the highest grossing businesses around. No one will say anything and yet, our tax money helps fund this. to me, that's discriminatory. If they were under nonprofit organization, maybe, but as it is, they are run just as an unregulated business. The only thing they are explicitly not allowed to do is sell alcohol on sunday bc it's against the blue laws. At any rate, i have seen at least 4 local politicians get lambasted by media, etc, bc they speak out abuot the discriminatory policy. I am also for politicians to actually represent the actual people. Many MAAANNNYYY politicians here have their own agendas. Half of the city council are related, the former mayor was pres of hte debutante club in 1957 and has ties throughout hte whole city and everyone of them seems to be after the most money, one way or another. They will...randomly enforce some areas, push money over to certain areas, do whatever to help out the family member of the day. It's pretty sickening. I would like to see an actual elected official actually pay attention to the constituents. Far too often in politics, the actual people are forgotten. These are my pretty short answers, sorry for going on a tirade, but it's just an illustration. Anyway, my main question is: What would you look for in an ideal candidate. Leave party affiliation out. Any specific traits, etc. thanks __________________ Live. Chris

03-19-2004, 11:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I'll be your candidate, even though I hate partisan politics. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

03-20-2004, 12:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	that's the problem with politics and what we hope to circumvent. I don't want to be partisan, i want a party that is based on common sense and an ability to take each issue on its own, not to tow the party line, so to speak. __________________ Live. Chris

03-20-2004, 12:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	So endorse me all ready. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

03-20-2004, 05:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Primary concern...corporate ownership of government. Secondary....lack of transparancy. Halx for prez.....ah hell, why not....you got my vote. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

03-21-2004, 08:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	No offense, but the last thing that we need is another political party. If 350 million people each have their own political party, we will get nowhere. Instead, we need people to step up and voice their opinions and enact change in other parties. I would love to see the Libertarian Party create some sort of a realistic set of goals for their party (based on Libertarian ideals) and then promote them -- instead of merely running on the "big government sucks" platform, and losing. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

03-21-2004, 08:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	Few people understand that the Federal Reserve system is not owned or controlled by our Federal Government but is a privately owned and controlled banking system. The Chairman of the Federal Reserve is appointed by a sitting President, but serves a six year term, and so is effectively serving out of reach of the President that appoints him/her. Ask your self about our national debt- If we run and control our own federal reserve, then to whom do we owe this debt? The problem is that we do not run our own economy. It is run for us by outside banking interests. I would like to see the abolition of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal Income Tax. I would also like to see the control of Education and Taxation and transportation be returned to the individual States. This is the computer age, and it is now possible for every registered voter to vote on every issue necessary. Eliminate lobbies. Select Congressmen and Representatives the same way they do Jurists and make it mandatory that once the committment has been served, the former servant return to their constituency. Make the pay for serving as a congressman or representative the median pay of the constituency from which they came, and the only way in which it can be raised is if the median level of the constituency's increases. Daily, the issues are emailed to the constituency, they vote on it, the returns are tabulated and the representative votes the majority. If there is a deviation from the majority vote, the representative goes to prison. Case closed. That way the majority rules, Lobbyists are eliminated and you have a true democracy. Hail, Hail, the gang's all here! IMHO. But first, that federal reserve has got to go. The day before that was put in place, we had ZERO national debt. Because we borrowed from nobody. WE had no paper money. We did not operate on the fractional reserve system and fiat notes were unheard of. We operated on the constitutional gold standard and we had no debt. Now the Bankers own the country and they are into us up to our eye balls. Ask yourself- to whom do we owe our national debt? How can we owe ourselves? If so, why not just cancel the debt? Remember, the United States did that once before and it resulted in the Civil War. We need to do it again, but this time it could start world war III. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!" Last edited by Thagrastay; 03-21-2004 at 08:55 AM..

03-22-2004, 08:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
Thagrastay Crazy Location: Handrail, Montana	I understand the dangers of this proposition very well and I'm glad you pointed them out. In short, this is what has already happened to our current political system through lobbyists and special interest groups. I am not so certain it would necessarily become an oligarchy- presently one could say that is what we already have with the Supreme court, but a "Good Ol' Boy" club might be close. The same as what is in place in Washington now. There are plenty of kinks that would ne to be worked out in a system like that but the c=accountability factor would be much greater and the possibility of meddling via lobbies and special interests would be almost nonexistent. Politics is very messy. I'm sorry to have gotten your juices up. There are always ways to keep honest people honest. Educating the masses is one way as well. __________________ "That's it! They've got the cuffs on him, he's IN the car!"

03-24-2004, 03:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Thagrastay,you raise several good points. However, bear in mind that we are a Republic, and not a Democracy, for good reason. If everyone had a true voice, then the uneducated would vote for whatever some voice on the radio told them what "ought to be". Plus, as iccky pointed out, we have people to look out for the issues for us, because we simply do not have the time, or the resources, to effectively survey the minutia of each issue that comes forward. I would, however, look favorably upon the dissolution of the Federal Reserve System, and the repealment of the Federal Income Tax as we know it. I would favor either a "Flat Tax", based on income, or a Federal Sales Tax. With the sales tax, the monies available to the Federal Government rest soley on comsumer confidence (no sales = no sales tax), thereby encouraging lawmakers to focus on the economic well being of the consumer, and not corporate special interests. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.