Lebell

Seriously.

Every election is terrible for me because my views do not fit either major party.

- Pro-choice
- Pro-gun
- Pro-gay rights
- Fiscal conservative (privatize Social Security, lower taxes)
- Legalize Pot
- Support the Iraq war
- Don't support the Patriot Act

and so on.

So every election I try and pick the candidates that will best represent me while not giving away too many of the other things I want. Sometimes it's a Dem, sometimes it's a Repub.

If anything, I am strongly in favor of personal responsibility which is in line with the Libertarians, but they have been taken over by the wacky club, IMO.


Is there anyone else on this board that shares my frustration?

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Paq

Right here...

I'm actually most of what you said, except i probably have differing views of some of the solutions you'd have and vice versa. Also, i don't support iraq war, but i don't really support many wars that have occurred throughout history.

and yeah, i try to vote based on the person who will represent me best. I used to love the libertarian party until, as you said, they seemed to be taken over by some weird nutjobs..

But yeah, i can agree with ya, there really aren't that many middle road candidates who use common sense and common decency instead of the "party line"

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Stare At The Sun

Yes yes i do!

-Pro Choice
-Pro Gun
-Pro Gay rights(equal rights for everyone, nothing less nothing more)
-Legalize pot
-Don't support the war
-Totally Against Illiegal immigrants
-I loathe Affirmative Action
-Against Patriot Act
-Against NAFTA
-Fiscal Conservative as well

What to do what to do? I think i'll vote for mickey mouse...-_-

PorscheBunny

As my mother says, "The middle of the road is for roadkill." Then again, she called breastfeeding "unnatural", so her opinions are probably off.

Unfortunately, trying to get the moderates together as one party only ensures the loonies of the left or right win.

Maybe we need to vote for candidates like the sports pollster vote for schools, like a 3-2-1 system where the favored candidate gets 3 points, the second gets 2, and the next gets 1, and everyone else gets zero. Problem is that no major party will support this.

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irseg

Yep, I'm in the same boat.

Neither party consistently supports freedom. The Republicans believe in economic freedom but think the government has the right to encorce morality based upon a book of fairy tales. The Dems are better with social freedoms (in theory at least--affirmative action, thought..err.."hate" crime laws, and other special rights for certain groups run counter to this) but think the government has the right to steal half our income and give it to the undeserving.

The Libertarians are cool in theory, but they rarely win elections and in real life most of their members just want to legalize pot. Which I support because I don't believe prohibiting it is any of the government's business, but it doesn't compose the central core of my political beliefs.

I'm registered and typically vote Republican, but I'm really not happy with either party. Especially now that the GOP gives amnesty to illegals and is obviously no longer supporting small government in terms of either legal powers (Patriot Act) or spending.

irseg

Oh, and regarding the kooky libertarians, I used to work in tech support for an ISP. One of them called, and told me he was a Libertarian within the first 10 seconds. We ended up having a 15 minute conversation because he claimed we were restricting his freedoms by imposing spam filters, and accused us of going to the government and pushing for anti-spam laws. He finally started yelling "This is NO LONGER a free economy if I cannot go out and pay for service that I WANT!"

To which I responded, "The mail servers are our private property and we can do whatever we want with them. You have the freedom to run your own ISP and refuse to filter any spam if you'd like." Then he hung up.

Ustwo

- Pro-choice/Pro-life I don't care - Neutral
- Pro-gun - R
- Pro-gay rights - D
- Fiscal conservative - R
- Pot, I don't care - N
- Support the Iraq war - R
- Support the Patriot Act - R

But I have some additional

- Pro-minority - R (Yes R, the democrat welfare programs have destroyed the black family, 70% of the children are now born to single mothers)

- Anti-voter fraud - R (Dems like to whine about Florida but lets get real. We know where the real voter fraud is in the country and its not on the republican side.)

- Anti-big labor - R (Unions were once the backbone, but now they are the boil. Anyone who has ever worked a union job knows this.)

- Pro-tort reform - R (Trial lawyers give 99% of their money to democrats, are the third biggest political contributor on paper, and some think even bigger through other agencies. 99% btw isn't some half assed number, its the ACTUAL %, tort reform alone is a good reason to let the republicans get 60 votes in the senate for a few years).

- Pro-Military - R (The only real dollar cuts in the Clinton years were on the military. What I don't think democrats understand is that freedom comes with a price, and being overkill on our military power keeps us out of danger, a lot of them really don't seem to understand how fragile freedom can be.)

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Kadath

Ustwo, you don't seem to have the same problem Lebell does. Give up your stance on gay rights and you've got a party. You seem to have taken this opportunity to tout your party(and bash the Dems) rather than commiserate about the lack of a party that speaks to you.
Lebell, you're never going to get a viable candidate who supports legalization. Personally, I think they should legalize it, but I don't rate it as important. My list:
Anti-gun(I guess that's what a pro-gun person would call it)
Pro-choice
Pro-gay rights
Pro-death penalty
Anti-war
Pro-education
Pro-environment

I think if I could get a decent Green party candidate who liked the death penalty, I'd be in business.

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Bill O'Rights

While "just wanting to legalize pot" may be the case for some of our members, I hardly think that this is representative of the Libertarian Party, as a whole. Do a little research. And as far as not winning any elections, the Libertarians are gaining some slow momentum. We are starting to take a lot more of the "local" elections, but until people get out of the mindset that there is only Republican or Democrat, it is still an uphill battle.

Careful now, if you haven't figured it out by now...I'm one of those "kooky libertarians".

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Ustwo

Here is the problem, and its not a mindset, its the system. Libertarians cost the republicans a senate seat in S.D. Had even half of them voted republican the republican would have won. Now instead of a republican which is somewhat close to libertarian on a lot of issues, you get a democrat, which is a lot worse.

Unless you have a MAJOR problem with both parties at the same time, you won't ever see a real 3rd party. Hell look what happened with the Bull Moose party. Its the one thing about my avatar I'm not pleased with.

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Bill O'Rights

It wasn't the Libertarians that cost the Republicans a senate seat in South Dakota, it was the candidate. I am a Libertatian. That doesn't mean that I vote only Libertarian. I don't personally agree with every plank in the party platform, and as such, a lot of Libertarian candidates don't get my vote. The Republican or the Democrat will. If the Rebublican lost the election due to the Libertarian vote, then either the Libertarian vote is gaining some sizable momentum in South Dakota (yay), or your candidate was weak in the polls. Either way, madeja notice us. Even if it is only as a fly in your ointment.

What you seem to be saying is..."Quit wasting my parties time and don't vote how you choose, vote either this or that way." How condescending is that!? You seem to be saying to me that because the Republicans agree on a few Libertarian issues, that Libertarians should vote Republican, and not Libertarian. You're not going to get any swing votes with that attitude.
Libertarians are not simply conservative Democrats, or liberal Republicans. We are our own identity.

On a final note; to a Libertarian, a Republican is no better or worse than a Democrat.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

arch13

Exactly Bill. To imply that he lost the seat imply's that he had some right to it. the best man with the most votes won, it just wasn't him. There's no difference in your argument Ustwo than there is with democrats who sit around and bitch that the Lib's stole votes from Gore.
He obviously didn't represent what the majority wanted.
(watch your tone UsTwo, your sounding like a democrat )

As for me, I have the same problem i think we all have.
Pro-Choice/Pro-Abortion (yes i said it, but this isn't the thread to argue it)
Pro-Gay right/Pro-gay marriage
Pro-gun
Pro moderate military spending (of course we need to spend money to stay safe, i just don't want more nukes like the new bunker buster and i can't support wasting tax money on a "star wars" system that most admit doesn't work. We just need another Billion Mr. President. We'll get it right in time! )
Pro-Increased taxes (HA! bet i'm the only one here for that!)
Pro-Fiscal responsability
Pro-Free trade but also support offshoring by companies to lower costs.
Anti-Affirmative action
Pro-Pot criminalization (again, we can argue it another time)
Don't support the Patriot Act
Anti-Religion in government in any form. (I don;t want to hear the word GOD in a state of the union address. Sorry but keep that to you damn self Mr. Bush. Religion is not relevant to politics)
Anti-DCMA

So yea, no party covers where i stand and it bothers me because i feel like Mr.Kerry represents the lesser of of what i want out of a democratic candidate and Mr. Dean I liked, but well he's toast in the media's mind.
I can't in good conscious vote for Mr. Bush based on or different viewpoints on the first two issues.
So I two am left with no candidate. I feel your pain Lebel.

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nanofever

Pro-Choice
Pro-Gay right (everyone is equal)
Pro-Firearms
Anti-Military spending (we need something like a 1/2 of what we use)
Anti-War (unless A) China/E.U. starts attacking countries or B) someone tries to invade the United States)
Pro-Increased taxes (significantly more progressive)
Pro-Fiscal responsability
Pro-Free trade
Anti-Any drug criminalization (the drug war is impossibly to win, why waste money that could go to better places)
Anti-Patriot Act (in a massive way)
Anti-Death Penalty
Pro-Enviroment
Pro-Social Welfare
Pro-Education (but then who is anti-education, this one is a poilitican's cop-out)
Pro-open borders (I.I is impossible to stop, why waste the money)
Pro-A.A (massive caveat: Based on Socio-economic NOT race)
Pro-Business regulation ( the guilded age was bad)
Anti-DCMA
Anti-religion in government

I could be a libertarian if they would just do a 180 on their tax policy, social welfare policy and business regulation.

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"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

laconic1

I have all kinds of problems
Pro choice
Pro guns
Pro military (technology transfer to private sector)
Pro Environment
Pro Business (only regulate safety, environment, and fair competition)
Anti Patriot Act
Anti DCMA

Generally I vote Republican, but I don't know if I can support Bush this time around. Yet the Democrats do nothing for me either.

bish

So we should discourage capitalism and encourage people to make just enough to get by and let the government take care of them. Then, who's going to pay for all the illegal immigrants coming in to the country since the borders should be wide open?


You're right, let's let every heorin addict walk the streets and kidnap 11 year old girls in car wash parking lots.


See above statement about drug criminalization!!


See above statement about taxes!!

Lebell

This thread is not about any of those positions, it's about having or not having a candidate you feel represents you.

Please keep it on track.

Thanks,

-lebell

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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lordjeebus

I could have typed out my own positions, but line for line, including statements in parentheses, but you just saved me the trouble!

Having given up on finding a political party that stands for this, or finding a way to get a political party to adopt such positions, my main goal in voting is currently to try to keep the political parties in Congress and the presidency opposite. If each has the power to nullify the other, I feel that there will be less overall abuse of power. (Didn't seem to work for the Patriot Act though...)

Dostoevsky

My problem is that I want government to play the smallest role possible in my life. I don't feel politicians have the right to dictate the way Americans live their lives through legislation. If someone is doing something that doesn't effect me it's none of my damn business.

I support:

pro-choice (even though I don't agree w/ abortion)
pro-gay rights (even though I don't care about homosexuality)
pro-gun (If gov't succeeds in disarming us we will become subjects)
pro-legalize all drugs (why waste tax money fighting a losing battle?)
Lowering taxes and cutting most social welfare programs
Privatizing education through vouchers

At election time I become really frustrated because I know my views don't align neatly with any canidate. I always end up voting Republican because that party is traditionally more supportive of smaller government and because I feel most strongly about pro-gun and lower taxes. But lately Democrats and Republicans have become pretty similar animals. The bureaucracy has become larger under GWB and he hasn't supported gun rights the way I would have liked.

So anyway, yes Lebell, I share your frustration. And we just happen to align on all the stances you listed above.

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seretogis

I will be voting for whatever candidate the Libertarian party presents. A vote for any Democrat or Republican is not a vote for progress, in my eyes.

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Ustwo

But then you also vote for an isolationist foreign policy.

There is no perfect candidate for any one person, besides themselves.

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Paq

and what's wrong with an isolationist foreign policy maybe if we kept our noses out of everyone else's business and worried about protecting our own, we wouldn't be in this...wwII and hitler excepted

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Ustwo

Thats a pretty big exception.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Paq

of course it is, but then again, i haven't seen a hitlerlike anyone lately..saddam included, bad man..just not a hitler.

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Tomservo

Lebell- you almost made a damn fine Howard Dean supporter, if not for that pesky war.

Support the Iraq War- Join the Army!

nanofever

1. I don't trust the government a lot but I trust coporations a WHOLE lot less. The government isn't in the business of making money, it'a business is keeping people happy and complacant. That is why I advocate regulation over pure capitalism. Furthermore, America has seen what businesses without regulation do, it was called the Guilded Age and it was some bad mojo all the way around.

2. Social Welfare is a good thing in a capitalistic society, it keeps the losers in the game from getting upset and having one of those revolt things. And that whole crazy poverty is bad thing...

3. No offence but you are fool if you think that I.I. are just lay abouts who do nothing. They do jobs at near slave wages that legal americans would not even consider touching. I.I. support the construction companies and agriculture industry of the entire southwest.

4. The story about the heroin addict was cute but I perfer salmon over red herring. The drug policy has two options: 1) waste money on a futile war that we will NEVER win (black markets exist for a REASON) or 2)legalize everything, create nice centers for people who want to use drugs and offer counciling for people at these centers.

5. You arguments on the death penalty and social welfare were misapplied, please try again with something coherant if you want to continue the debate.

*sorry for the off-topic but when certain people feel the need to attack positions people list, a defense of those positions is in order.*

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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

Sparhawk

Bitch.
Moan.
Vote Incumbent.

These small time parties will never get off the ground nationally as long as the electoral college system is in place. A popular vote could get them somewhere, however.

If this is a knock on chickenhawks, I get it. If not, please elaborate.

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mystmarimatt

So close...and yet so far. I'm pro gun-control, not pro gun.

I laughed at the Gilded Age comment. Bad times, but such a fascinating historical era.

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Superbelt

I'm building off of others answers.

Pro-choice
Pro-gun
Pro-gay rights (up to and including gay marriage)
Fiscal Responsiblity (ie. Spend money responsibly, appropriate tax levels for our spending)
Progressive taxation
Pro Social Security Not privatized
Pro Medical care for the elderly and those who can't afford it, free.
Legalize Pot
Anti Patriot-Act
Anti DCMA
Pro Environment. (Mandated decreases in emissions for both power plants and autos. Force all point source emissions to pay into a special federal fund so the federal government can afford to hire GOVERNMENT workers to monitor company smokestacks and effluents. When a company pays for its own monitor, often there is incentive to lie about what is spewing. No to the bullshit of Clean Skies Initiative and Healthy Forest Initiative which actually destroy both's targets more.) Also dramatically increase funding for alternative fuels research and cut out almost all subsidies to fossil fuel companies. Look to the future, not the past. High environmental enforcement. Huge increases in funding to protecting the environmentl from polluters and poachers etc...
Pro Organized Labor (Now with the new Overtime rules about to kick in we will need organized labors help more than we have in decades.
Pro Military Give our servicemen better wages, especially in combat situations. Give back their veteran benefits Bush took away. Keep them from serving in pointless wars. Keep the servicemens gear up to date. Money to body armor and humvee armor, not ABM.
Strong National Defense (Hire first responders, don't fire them Huge influx of funds for port security and cargo inspections.)
Anti ABM systems
Anti-Voter fraud Mandate that all computerized voting machines produce a paper trail. Very strict regulations and policing of all districts that use computer systems for voting.
"I look forward to delivering Ohio for President Bush in 2004."
--Chairman of Diebold corp (a touchscreen company)
Anti Dealth Penalty It's not implemented right and the rest of the civilized world has already rejectd it
Education reforms no vouchers. Reform the schools, give more funding cut out the bureaucracy so the teachers can teach. Federeal laws that bar students and families from suing schools for anything other than sexual abuse and serious injuries.
Pro separation of church and stateNone of this Faith based initiative bullshit.
Free trade Free trade comes to all countries with acceptable human rights and environmental standards, it is a sliding scale downward if you don't have these things.
Pro maintain american ideals Don't prop up dictators and regimes that go against the american way of life. In fact censure them and do your best to cut them off from the entire world community. Screw if we may have some interest in dealing with them. Without sticking to american ideals, this country dies at the heart.

Mondak

Pretty much on board with all that. Bush is terrible on my most important voting issues which really all involve fiscal policy. For example, I can be convinced to go with the legalize pot argument simply so I don't have to use my tax money to "fight the war on drugs" and incarcerate non-violent drug offenders.

The government is and continues to get into businesses that it is not well suited for. Every time I can get the free market to address a problem for us, that is the way I choose. Far more efficient. Allign interests with desired results and watch human nature take care of the rest.

I feel really trapped and can see myself drifting back into a political apethetic state soon since my voice will continue to do nothing. There is not anyone out there for me and my vote. I HAVE no choice.

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First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

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dy156

I'll join this crowd. I'm mostly a frustrated Republican who gets irritated by the socially conservative stances and preaching of Republican campaigns. I wish the Bush campaign would make a huge deal about how Libya voluntarily gave up their nuclear program, based in no small part on what happened in Iraq, or that allowing Mexican immigrants to be here legally makes a huge amount of sense, instead of focusing so far on opposing Gay Marriage, of all things. I campaigned for a Democrat in Congress that was fiscally very conservative and pro business.

(Mini-Rant)I don't think trial lawyers are to blame for the nation's problems. If the market works everywhere else, let the market decide in the court room, too. Let's try these stupid ass cases instead of running scared or passing legislation to limit awards that makes as much sense as artificial rent controls and does not help insurance premiums for the doctors that lobbied for them.

I posted once that I'm a pragmatic libertarian, and wanted to remind everyone of the one candidate recently that's gotten national media attention who is socially liberal but fiscally conservative and pro national defense -Arnold Schwarzenegger! Now how frustrated is everyone?