Liquor Dealer

E-mail I received this morning:

Subject: To the Union
Subject: Don't we wish!!!
What follows is the text of a presidential address I'm HOPING President Bush will give on July 4, 2003. (The author of this material is unknown.)
My fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq's regime has been completed. The discovery and destruction of all weapons of mass destruction have been
covered thoroughly in the press. A new Iraqi government has been established and appears to be stable. Our mission in Iraq is complete. This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to begin the reckoning.
Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which
have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short. The United Kingdom, Spain, and Australia are some of the countries listed there.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.
Let me say to those nations
on List 2 that all foreign aid ceases immediately and indefinitely. the money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war. The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption. Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
In the coming years, together with Congress, I will work to re-direct this
money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home. I am ordering the immediate withdrawal of all US forces from Kuwait, SaudiArabia, and all other Middle Eastern nations. Leave us alone. Solve your own damn problems. Need help? Call Germany.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your relatives from the face of the earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
Regarding the nation of Israel, I have this to say. It seems like everybody
has forgotten what happened to European Jewry during the 1930s and World War II. Our nation will never permit the destruction of Israel. Period.
Nevertheless, to Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Yank yer
heads out of your asses and work out a peace deal. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
I'm ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with
France, Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN
diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don't give a damn about whatever treaty pertains to this. Pay your tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2. Since we are going to
be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.
Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and his
entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I'm gonna put'em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with your oil. Oh, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty --- starting now. It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
Some will accuse us of xenophobia. My response is simple and direct: if you
can play that word in Scrabble, do it as soon as your turn comes round. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them be saying 'darn tootin'. Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup soccer from America. I never understood it anyway.
To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Best wishes.
To the nations on List
1, a final thought. Thanks guys.
We owe you.
God bless America.
Thank you and good night.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Pacifier

You want Bush to completly ruin your Land?

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Liquor Dealer

You evidently saw something in this I missed. All I can saw about this is "go for it!" Bush isn't ruining anything - and this speech, if made, would have an effect quite different from what I believe you are getting from it. Like the man said - "you are either with us or against us" - he said absolutely nothing about there being a middle for fence riders.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Pacifier

You are making the same error most "leave the world alone"-ppl make: You think that the USA is able to work without the world. In todays world the nations are far to connected for that to work. If you are ignoring most of the world (all that did not blindly follow you) they will also ignore you. And that you won't survive, ecnomically. If you stop aid for "third world hell-holes" those nations will also stop making deals with your industry. That is a common practice around the world "aid for contracts" thats how "those government leaders grow fat on corruption".

"I am ordering the immediate withdrawal of all US forces from Kuwait, SaudiArabia, and all other Middle Eastern nations"

...and those nations will withdrawl any oil contracts. Have fun with your SUV.

In addition with this attitude the chances are high that more nation will not like you and stop trading with you (ignore you) but the USA need some goods from other nations. What will you do then? invade them?

Those nation that are on you list Nr.1 will stay there not forever. Belive me Spain will have a different goverment soon, same as the UK (hopefully). The people are angry about the stuff Aznar and Blair did. In easter Europe people are also not too happy about the new US Bases, you have to pay big Bucks to your new "friends" to convince them.

This "speech" promotes isolation, something no western nation can survive today.

Like always this "speech" focuses on what you are giving, ignoring completly what you are recieving from the world. Like always it focuses on "all the good" the USA has done, on all "the help"; ignoring completly that there are serveral reasons for some no to like you. As always this "speech" tries to show the USA as the ultimate good in the world, as always it is a simple "black/white" view of the world. As usual this "speech" is rather stupid.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

boatin

I don't know... the speech seems to show Bush caring about domestic policy and improving our own country.

That would be a nice change of pace! How many tax cuts will it take to fix everything?

Liquor Dealer

Pacifier makes goods points - so far as those on List #2 are concerned. It seems almost comical how those who are somewhere out in liberal land can see absolutely positively nothing good in what the US does abroad - yet if you threaten to quit doing it they squeal even louder! While the speech takes things to an extreme it goes no farther in the conservative direction than most who respond to this type of post are more than willing to go in the other. I honestly believe we could do this, and it would effect us less than any other nation on earth in the process. Many people do not realize that we are a petroleum exporting nation. If what we export was removed from the total we use it might be shocking for some. Petroleum appears to be the Catch 22 everyone wants to use in response to everything we do - the war, it was for their oil you know! Right? Bound to have been, we keep hearing this over and over. Mexico and Canada - Who actually needs who? Some of the Canadians insist that GM, Ford, etc. could not operate without Canadian imput. They are correct in this instance - could they be operating full tilt without them in two weeks? Probably. This nation has exported tens of thousands of jobs to places where lower wages cause production costs to be lower. The corporations involveds bottom line is probably the only thing positive to come out of this - the consumer didn't see a price decrease and a whole lot of would be consumers cannot buy the car because of the unemployment caused by job exportation in the first place. Me, I'd like to try it! I've dumped verything in the store I had that came from Frawnce'. I hate to think of not having Canadian whisky but I could adapt. Tequila - It stinks anyway and Corona - first thing anyone tells you before you go to Mexico is "don't drink the water" - Then they take that same water and make beer out of it - Ever wonder why Corona stinks and you have to use a lime to cover the skunky taste? The business I am in accounts for a huge chunk of what the US imports - We can make just as much without it as we do with it - perhaps even more!

Your turn.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

maximusveritas

Maybe if President Bush was an ignorant 8-year old who doesn't get along well with others, he would make such a speech. But even I give him a little more credit than that.

Pacifier

Again, it is only "The USA is the ultimate good" or "the USA is the evil"
I never said, and I never will say that the USA has done nothing good, but the USA, like every othernation has good and bad sides, has made good decisions and bad.
I as a liberal can see that, you seem to ignore the errors of you nation.

''Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.''
Arthur Schopenhauer

Fact: You economic dates (balance of trade deficit) show clearly that you import more than you export. You surely can adopt but still you will loose, and on a longer term you will fall back behind the world. Cooperation is the key.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Liquor Dealer

We import a lot more than we export in dollars. The exporting of jobs is what has caused the biggest chunk of this deficit. There is no way a nation can export raw material and buy back the finished product made from them and keep a balance of trade. That could be stopped.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Pacifier

You think the USA is buying raw materials and procuces finished products, and so you want to stop producing for other contries, did I understand that correctly?

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

Liquor Dealer

No you turned it around backwards- we are exporting raw material and importing finished products. We have allowed jobs that were here to be relocated to areas with cheap labor. We then turn around and buy back the finished products.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

crewsor

Its a great speech, maybe not to be taken literally, but just to make a point. I'd love to see the reaction from some of those countrys.

__________________
We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

hiredgun

Wow, and we'd alienate the rest of the world even more than we already have. Bravo.

splck

I'm sure some of them would welcome this speech

__________________
nice line eh?

Phaenx

No thanks. Isolationism doesn't work.

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

Pacifier

Oh OK i should not try to follow that kind of discussion at 3am in the morning

Hmm that is the case with every other nation, we have a similar problem here in germany. but still we are a major export nation.

BTW: Which Raw materials is the USA exporting?

BTW: Some time ago I read an article about the US economic dilemma, sadly it was written in german. The author was Emmanuel Todd who, in 1979, also predicted the downfall of Russia, so I think he is not that stupid

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

mean-spirited

It was a damn good thought anyways.

Liquor Dealer

The most noticeable things that really jump out and grab you are labels that read "Assembled in Mexico from U.S. made parts".

on clothing with "Assembled in Mexico from US materials".

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

ARTelevision

Good Job, LD.
thanks.

__________________
create evolution

reconmike

I would love to see America return to isolationism, the only thing we as a nation would need to create first would be an anti-ICBM defense system. Then I would love to tell the world to go pound salt. I can see it now the great wall around america, if at that point you have not been proven to be a viable immigrant bye-bye.
No more immigration, no work visas, I think the USA could handle it. Oil? open up Alaska, everything else we have as a product.

__________________
Where is Darwin when ya need him?

druptight

Isolationism would never work, we would be a mess in a few years, and would be begging other countries to trade with us. As an econ major, i can tell you from an economics standpoint alone that there are always gains to be made from trade, and if we were to try to produce everything at home it would be inefficient, prices would skyrocket, and we'd be knocking on doors around the world for raw materials and labor in no time.

james t kirk

I am proud to be on list 2.

And i would welcome an American retreat from its position of global bully.

Fuck you if you don't like that we Canadians didn't support you. I am still waiting for the big weapons of mass destruction discovery. Anyone, anyone????

The US gov't and George Bush have treated Canada like a piece of shit since Day 1. We were business as usual with Clinton, but Bush suffers from not only lack of basic intelligence, but also Xenophobia and we are tired of it.

Here's a thought........

50% of the natural gas used in the united states comes from Canada.

You don't want to respect our independence, well, maybe YOU should get tough on us and not buy our natural gas anymore. Turn off the valve then, I dare you.

Good luck freezing to death in the dark come December.

Oil, whoops, we are the biggest exporter of crude oil to the US also i believe.

Turn off that valve too while you are at it.

Have fun paying 10 bucks a gallon.

You want out of Nato, I say great, disband the whole thing. It's a US controled old boys club anyway. Total waste of money.

As far as the big savings on foreign AID goes, HA, most of the countries that receive foreign aid from the USA are on list 1 and gave the green light to the US. For example, Chile - the 3'rd biggest recipient of foreign aid from the US after Israel (No. 1 for some god knows why reason) and Egypt.

You won't even save a billion dollars.

Bottom line, I was very conflicted about the whole iraq thing. Saddam was an asshole, i know that. But he didn't pose a threat to the USA. He was contained for the most part. Sooner or later he would have faded to gray. There was no burning need to go in there guns blazing. There were two other proposals before the UN, neither of which appealed to the US. (The Russian and the Canadian proposals.)

Our gov't may not have thought objectively, but they did the right thing.

Out of Iraq in 30 days, what a laugh. The US will be in Iraq, literally for the next 10 years. It is going to be a quagmire that will cost you billions and billions of dollars. The only people who are going to benefit by this are the oil companies. The rest of you are just going to pay for it. The US economy is already in the tank, and getting worse and worse each month. Unemployment is up. Underemployment is up, the stock market is down and going nowhere quick, RECORD DEFICITS used to finance tax cuts for the rich old boys. Corrupt business leaders stealing billions and getting away with it - Enron, World Com, Global Crossings, Tyco, etc, etc.

You'll see, mark my words.

As far as NAFTA goes, i don't see it benefitting Canada one iota. You put tariffs on our wheat because our farmers are more productive than yours, you put huge tariffs on our lumber because we produce it more cheaply than you do and our gov't does not levy the same "stumpage fees" that your gov't does, i.e. tax. Canadian steel also is now subject to US tariffs.

To us here in Canada, the US just wants accesss to our markets without granting access to its own. I used to support NAFTA because i saw it as the free market. Letting the market govern the movement and trade of goods, and not gov'ts. Nothing could be further from the truth. The american legislators have never believed in free trade.

Scap it?

Please, do me the favour.

It's crap like this spew that makes me wish that we could be part of the European Union. They are moving forward, not backwards. Have you noticed that the Euro is now the dominant world currency? Have you noticed that the Euro is up by 20 some odd percent against the American dollar?

Sorry your feelings are hurt and all about a lot of countries not supporting the American killing spree in Iraq. But maybe you should ask yourself why that is? Is everyone else wrong and you are right?

Is it maybe, just maybe, that the people on list 2 had an arguement.

Have a good day eh.

snakemike

Yeah, and guess what: the us governement is in massive debt to foreign (mostly european) countries. naturally, word rarely comes out with that information...

Pacifier

Very cool posting Kirk

BTW: a couple of oil producing nation already calculate their trades and contracts in Euro, not in Dollar anymore. Iraq was one of the first nation who did that

http://www.observer.co.uk/business/s...900867,00.html

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

SLM3

Wow, well put!

SLM3

reconmike

Why? There must be a reason, bad syrup?

If need be we have the Alaskan refuge, and there are plenty of other countries who would love to pick up the Canadian slack.



And if the time came for canada to defend itself, hold on I am still laughing my ass off about this one, oh too easy never mind.

So you just live in your merry winter wonderland knowing that even when you harbor draft dodgers and refuse to back up an ally,
the usa will still defend you because we all know that any 2nd rate country could over run Canada in a months time and it would suck having a non-passive country to the north.

__________________
Where is Darwin when ya need him?

james t kirk

Blah blah blah....

Yawn, We can defeat you this, we can conquor you that. Our army is bigger than your army.

Anyway you cut it, Alaska doesn't have enough oil to slake the thirst of the SUV culture you stem from, nor would any other nameless countries be able to "pick up the slack" You would freeze to death in the dark and you SUV's would be stalled at the side of the road.

The only country that has ever, or will ever, invade my country is your country. Of that I am certain.

You could probably conquor us yes, but you could never own us, or control us.

spectre

Everyone:
Calm the fuck down.

and just to be fair:
Calmez la baise vers le bas.

(I hope that translated correctly)

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

reconmike

Dans le monde du Canada sissies est seulement deuxième en France

__________________
Where is Darwin when ya need him?

toxic515

and Atlas....... shrugged. Who is John Galt? <shrug>

__________________
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies
like a banana.

The_Dude

back to isolationism?

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Antagony

Meh, that speech will never be made anyway.

__________________
On the outside I'm jazz, but my soul is rock and roll.

Sleep is a waste of time. Join the Insomniac Club.
"GYOH GWAH-DAH GREH BLAAA! SROH WIH DIH FLIH RYOHH!!" - The Locust

reconmike

Please show me where I said anything about conquering anything? What I said was that America has kept Canada safe and sound for alot of years.

I will tell you something, you want to get personal with me, ill dance with you, gladly

__________________
Where is Darwin when ya need him?

james t kirk

Hmm, quite disrespectful.

Tell that to these guys.

http://www.nt.net/~toby/ww1.html

or these guys

http://www.nt.net/~toby/ww2.html

or these ones

http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/viet...23937337543836

MSD

It won't be heard, but I'll admit that the President has the balls to say it, it's the moderates who hold him back. That's why we have people balancing each other in the government.

If he did say it, it would mean serious problems for us internationally, even if most Americans share at least some of the sentiments expresed.

SLM3

Canada is American's largest source of oil, second is Latin America. Both are operating at capacity and will not be able meet US needs in ten years (65% of all oil imported). You really think Alaska can make up for that?

And really, who are you protecting us from? Really, the only enemies we would have made would be due to our alliance with the US. You talk like so many people out there, assuming there's always some sort of evil out to get all of us and if the US turned its back for one second legions of evil doers would overun Canada.

Like the 95% of all the other countries in the world that didn't back the US in this most recent attack, Canada is a sovereign state and isn't required to jump off every bridge the US chooses to.

The fact is the US takes WAY more from the world than it gives and wouldn't last one year on its own.

SLM3

drewg

Don't underestimate the Greenlanders, SLM3. If it wasn't for the US they'd be crawling all over Canada

And trust me, those mutant war walrus' sure can bite!

james t kirk

This brings up a very interesting point and that is the American culture of fear.

It's not unique to the USA, but it pervades American society.

The idea that your neighbour wants to shoot you and rob you, therefore, you must be armed to the teeth. The idea that every other country in the world envys you, and wants to destroy you and take your way of life away from you. Therefore, as a country, we must be armed to the teeth.

It is ingrained in the american way of thinking, "the wolf is always knocking at the door" - Don Henly.

This culture of fear has been the cornerstone of American politics for the last 50 years. It has fed the industrial military complex to it's bloated insatiable self.

And it has people convinced that it is natural.

splck

...whatever. Attitudes like this is why I'm happy not to live in the states.



I thought you wanted to be in isolation? How would receiving oil from other countries be living in isolation?

__________________
nice line eh?

Liquor Dealer

This post has gotten the replies that I assumed would show up. While it was total fiction it does express the opinion of many people in the United States. I am surprised that so many people question the ability of the U.S. to adopt an isolationist approach to foreign policy. It will never happen but I most definitely disagree with those who think this nation is incapable of being self-sustaining. I believe we could do this very easilly and I believe it would effect others more than it would us. I believe that many people in this nation felt totally crapped upon by people who we felt were friends - Don't give me the crap that Canada is an independent nation with a right to do as they please - no one has questioned that right. What we have questioned is friendship. If the situation was reversed and Canada had relied upon the friendship of the United States and we had told them that - Gee guys! You know we are your friend and all that but we think we'll just sit this one out! Eh? Oh yeah! and if we happen to catch the guys you're after we'll decide what we are going to do with them - we definitely aren't going to give them to you. But we are you friends! Right? We'll just hum a couple of verses of No Canada!

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!