Gore's endorsement of Dean - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dy156 · 12-10-2003, 03:10 PM

I'm suprised there is not a thread on this already. If there is, and I haven't found it, please let me know.

I'm a Bush supporter, though a little less adamantly as of late. Gore's announcement suprised me, but I don't think it was "a bold move on Gore's part to maintain his relevancy," as many of the commentators have said. I think Gore is out of politics and without the constraint of maintaining his image for an upcoming election, he just genuinely felt Dean was the right guy, and wanted to make a point of helping him out when it could do the most good. I'm not the biggest Gore fan, but I kinda thought this was refreshing.

Maybe I'm just naive and it was a purely tactical move. If it was, I think it was the wrong one. Any lingering support Gore had should have been handed to the eventual Democratic winner, from a tactical standpoint, in order to help him against Bush, and I think Gore trying to maintain his relevance for another run is also a tactical mistake, because I don't think he could beat Hillary. (that's another thread.)

I'm curious to see what Democrats think of this. Was it a good move for Dean? for Gore? for the Democratic party's chances in November? Does it make the campaign more about Iraq and thus leave the outcome to be determined by the shape of Iraq this time 11 months from now? Is anyone angry at this endorsement's impact on Leiberman? on the eventual non-Dean winner?

Liquor Dealer · 12-10-2003, 03:16 PM

I would think that an endorsement from Gore would be about as welcome as a dose of the clap. This may bring the Clinton/Gore thing to a head! The Clinton's don't want to lose control of the party - hoping to run one or the other or both (little diff!) in 2008, while Gore is trying to save himself from disappearing into political oblivion. He at least owed Leiberman a head's up or something. Leiberman may be the lucky one when its all said and done.

Phaenx · 12-10-2003, 03:43 PM

I would have expected him to endorse Lieberman. And speaking of which, did you see Gore when he gave that speech?

Man, he's really let himself go.

Ustwo · 12-10-2003, 04:18 PM

This is a fight for the Democratic party.

Clintonistas vrs Leftwing.

Liberman might be spineless but he isn't a wacko Liberal. He sold his soul when he joined the Gore campaign and his flip flopping hurt him quite a bit, so I'm not surprised he didn't get the endorsement or even a warning. He is a non-person to the democrats. Hell he is the only democrat who could be elected out of the group which wouldn't cause me to weep for my country, which should tell you why he isn't popular with the left.

Gore did look funny though. He was going ON AND ON AND ON while Dean in the back looked like someone shoved a broom stick up his ass. He looked VERY uncomfortable and you could almost hear his thoughts of 'please shut up Al, please shut up AL.'

Sparhawk · 12-10-2003, 05:07 PM

Glad to see all the Gore and Dean sympathizers have already posted

I agree with the poster's comment about Gore getting out of politics. I'm not completely sure he picked the right guy yet, but I'm certainly more inclined toward Dean because of Gore's surprising announcement. Gore has been very refreshing the last year and a half or so, now that he isn't being handled by anyone. Now take a look at Clark, who has inherited many of Gore's old staffers- miscue after miscue. Clark isn't running up to speed yet, and he really needs to pick it up.

nirol · 12-10-2003, 05:13 PM

And this endorsement does what for Dean?

Guarantee the state of Tennessee?
Guess not, he couldnt even take that state when he ran himself.

Dean is AlGore with a pulse.

Gore has not given up on politics. When Dean takes the nomination he will control the party, most likely, for the next few yrs. Gore's people were tossed out of the machinery after the election, the Clinton's control it. This is a way for him to still be a player, instead of resorting to speaking to the small Move-on.org events.

Ustwo · 12-10-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
Glad to see all the Gore and Dean sympathizers have already posted

I agree with the poster's comment about Gore getting out of politics. I'm not completely sure he picked the right guy yet, but I'm certainly more inclined toward Dean because of Gore's surprising announcement. Gore has been very refreshing the last year and a half or so, now that he isn't being handled by anyone. Now take a look at Clark, who has inherited many of Gore's old staffers- miscue after miscue. Clark isn't running up to speed yet, and he really needs to pick it up.

Clark does not equal Gore in any measure. Clark was the Clintonistas attempt to muddy the waters and try to draw some energy from Dean, but its not working. He is really a joke of a canidate as a democrat. Its not like he had a shift of policy over the years and swiched parties, he took the one that offered him a chance at political power and that was the democrats, had the republicans done the same, he would still be one.

I can understand why some democrats are desperate for Clark to do well, since he doesn't share the weakness on national security that the rest have (except for Liberman) but its not going to happen. Clark really isn't that smart.

Sparhawk · 12-10-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Clark does not equal Gore in any measure. Clark was the Clintonistas attempt to muddy the waters and try to draw some energy from Dean, but its not working. He is really a joke of a canidate as a democrat. Its not like he had a shift of policy over the years and swiched parties, he took the one that offered him a chance at political power and that was the democrats, had the republicans done the same, he would still be one.

I can understand why some democrats are desperate for Clark to do well, since he doesn't share the weakness on national security that the rest have (except for Liberman) but its not going to happen. Clark really isn't that smart.

It worked for Eisenhower, why not for Clark

He is not a stupid man, he is just a newbie campaigner. And presidential campaigning isn't exactly a good place to lose your cherry. But you do not become first in your class at West Point, etc etc without having a very sharp, quick mind. He'll pick up.

onetime2 · 12-10-2003, 06:42 PM

I think it's interesting that people are putting so much stock in Gore's endorsement. I mean he looked at the prospects of beating Bush, didn't like the odds and folded. Now he's throwing his support behind Dean in a race that he believed/maybe still believes is unwinnable.

It does strike me as odd (or at least totally inconsiderate) that he didn't tell Lieberman about the endorsement before it was leaked to the press. And then Gore's people were shocked that he didn't return Gore's calls after the word was nationally reported. There's obviously something going on behind the scenes here. A payoff to Gore in the form of an Ambassadorship should Dean win perhaps. I just don't think Gore has a future in Presidential politics. Unless Hillary is going to come from the shadows and pull Gore in as a running mate in this election, I think he's done.

Kadath · 12-10-2003, 06:47 PM

Hey, if we're going to object to "Rethuglican", can we also frown on "Clintonistas"?

Phaenx · 12-10-2003, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Gore did look funny though. He was going ON AND ON AND ON while Dean in the back looked like someone shoved a broom stick up his ass. He looked VERY uncomfortable and you could almost hear his thoughts of 'please shut up Al, please shut up AL.'

He always looks like that to me.

onetime2 · 12-11-2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Hey, if we're going to object to "Rethuglican", can we also frown on "Clintonistas"?

Absolutely. Digs like these have no place in rationale discussions. They are only designed to illicit a reaction and they don't further ANY discussion.

Ustwo · 12-11-2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Absolutely. Digs like these have no place in rationale discussions. They are only designed to illicit a reaction and they don't further ANY discussion.

Please select from the following list:

1 - Clintonistas
2 - Clintonites
3 - Clintonians

If you object to any of the former please also include why you object to adjective.

onetime2 · 12-11-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
Please select from the following list:

1 - Clintonistas
2 - Clintonites
3 - Clintonians

If you object to any of the former please also include why you object to adjective.

Clintonites and Clintonians I don't object to at all. Clintonistas, to me, incorporates the Sandanista name associated with the leftist regime in Nicaragua which Reagan fought against.

redravin40 · 12-11-2003, 07:24 AM

This thread is going seriously off course.

Lets discuss the value or non-value of Gores endorsement of Dean please.

If it can't straighten out it will be locked.

onetime2 · 12-11-2003, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redravin40
This thread is going seriously off course.
If it can't straighten out it will be locked.

I'm confused. Why is this going off course?

tokaok · 12-11-2003, 03:47 PM

tho i cant vote in the US, i think Dean is the one with the greates chance of victory vs bush.

Gore is completly correct that Dean has done the only thing that matters in elections and that is getting people interested enough to go out and work/vote for you.

it doesnt matter wich democrat wins, all the card carrying dems will vote for that person, it is the candidate who can motivate others to come out that will win. this is Dean atm.

Tophat665 · 12-11-2003, 06:23 PM

OK, here's what Gore's endoresment did: It took a certain amount of Democrats who were sitting on the sideline waiting to see who would muster the oomph to look like he (face it, Mosely Braun is a vanity candidate) would run the primaries, and made them resolve in favor of Dean.

Look at it this way: A practical liberal has got a tough choice. Kucinich is not electable, Sharpton is not sane, Edwards is not (politically) pubescent, Mosely Braun is not serious, and neither Clark nor Lieberman are Democrats. Fact of the matter is a Lieberman presidency would be almost as disasterous as a Bush residency.

That leaves Dean, Gephardt, and Kerry.

Of the three (or four if one includes Clark) viable candidates, Gore picked the one he could best get along with. 3 years ago, more people trusted Gore's judgement than certain other people I could name. I am inclined at this point to trust his judgement and throw my support behind Dean, rather than waiting to see who comes out ahead. To look at it another way, I trust that Al picked a winner. I think a large number of people who have been waiting will see it more or less the same way.

Locobot · 12-12-2003, 01:32 AM

Way to analyze the situation Tophat665, your post is by far the most relevent and deft.

I find it funny that only right wing is speculating so wildly about Democrat power struggles. Yes B.Clinton is still the most popular, and H.Clinton the most exciting prospect. This doesn't mean they solely hold power within the party, nor does it mean their egos demand exercising their sway for only personal prominence. Clinton and Gore long ago reconciled (9/2001 it was).

Superbelt · 12-12-2003, 11:06 AM

I agree with Tophat mostly. I see that Dean, Kerry, Gep AND Clark are all viable candidates. And this could turn out to be a close race that leaves the eventual winner bloody and battered while Bush keeps coasting through unopposed building up money.

Gore saw this was necessary in that Dean has the most grassroot support and fires up the democratic base. He is a proven winner at drumming up money too. Not just for himself but for other congressmen and senator campaigns as well. (Which he has been doing for several different candidates)

Dean threw his support behind the best option. While there will be some backlash, there will also be a mountain of support that well outweighs anything that can come against it.
Remember, most americans voted Gore over Bush, and many Floridians are feeling cheated over the last election. I see nothing but good coming out of it.

Hell, I can see a cabinet forming already because of this. Dean for President, Clark for VP or Sec of Defense. Graham for VP or Sec of Defense, Edwards for VP or Sec of Education. (Graham and Edwards are losing their seats because of the primaries They need somewhere to go)
And perhaps... to get Nader to back the fuck off this time. Ralph Nader for Secretary of the Interior or Commerce.

I am one of those Dean supporters as well. I've contributed 600 dollars to his campaign already, and after the nomination is secure I plan of passing over another 400.

12-10-2003, 03:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	Gore's endorsement of Dean I'm suprised there is not a thread on this already. If there is, and I haven't found it, please let me know. I'm a Bush supporter, though a little less adamantly as of late. Gore's announcement suprised me, but I don't think it was "a bold move on Gore's part to maintain his relevancy," as many of the commentators have said. I think Gore is out of politics and without the constraint of maintaining his image for an upcoming election, he just genuinely felt Dean was the right guy, and wanted to make a point of helping him out when it could do the most good. I'm not the biggest Gore fan, but I kinda thought this was refreshing. Maybe I'm just naive and it was a purely tactical move. If it was, I think it was the wrong one. Any lingering support Gore had should have been handed to the eventual Democratic winner, from a tactical standpoint, in order to help him against Bush, and I think Gore trying to maintain his relevance for another run is also a tactical mistake, because I don't think he could beat Hillary. (that's another thread.) I'm curious to see what Democrats think of this. Was it a good move for Dean? for Gore? for the Democratic party's chances in November? Does it make the campaign more about Iraq and thus leave the outcome to be determined by the shape of Iraq this time 11 months from now? Is anyone angry at this endorsement's impact on Leiberman? on the eventual non-Dean winner?

12-10-2003, 03:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	I would have expected him to endorse Lieberman. And speaking of which, did you see Gore when he gave that speech? Man, he's really let himself go. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

12-10-2003, 04:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	This is a fight for the Democratic party. Clintonistas vrs Leftwing. Liberman might be spineless but he isn't a wacko Liberal. He sold his soul when he joined the Gore campaign and his flip flopping hurt him quite a bit, so I'm not surprised he didn't get the endorsement or even a warning. He is a non-person to the democrats. Hell he is the only democrat who could be elected out of the group which wouldn't cause me to weep for my country, which should tell you why he isn't popular with the left. Gore did look funny though. He was going ON AND ON AND ON while Dean in the back looked like someone shoved a broom stick up his ass. He looked VERY uncomfortable and you could almost hear his thoughts of 'please shut up Al, please shut up AL.' __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-10-2003, 05:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Glad to see all the Gore and Dean sympathizers have already posted I agree with the poster's comment about Gore getting out of politics. I'm not completely sure he picked the right guy yet, but I'm certainly more inclined toward Dean because of Gore's surprising announcement. Gore has been very refreshing the last year and a half or so, now that he isn't being handled by anyone. Now take a look at Clark, who has inherited many of Gore's old staffers- miscue after miscue. Clark isn't running up to speed yet, and he really needs to pick it up. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

12-10-2003, 05:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
nirol Crazy Location: South East US	And this endorsement does what for Dean? Guarantee the state of Tennessee? Guess not, he couldnt even take that state when he ran himself. Dean is AlGore with a pulse. Gore has not given up on politics. When Dean takes the nomination he will control the party, most likely, for the next few yrs. Gore's people were tossed out of the machinery after the election, the Clinton's control it. This is a way for him to still be a player, instead of resorting to speaking to the small Move-on.org events. __________________ 'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

12-10-2003, 03:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I would think that an endorsement from Gore would be about as welcome as a dose of the clap. This may bring the Clinton/Gore thing to a head! The Clinton's don't want to lose control of the party - hoping to run one or the other or both (little diff!) in 2008, while Gore is trying to save himself from disappearing into political oblivion. He at least owed Leiberman a head's up or something. Leiberman may be the lucky one when its all said and done.

12-10-2003, 06:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	I think it's interesting that people are putting so much stock in Gore's endorsement. I mean he looked at the prospects of beating Bush, didn't like the odds and folded. Now he's throwing his support behind Dean in a race that he believed/maybe still believes is unwinnable. It does strike me as odd (or at least totally inconsiderate) that he didn't tell Lieberman about the endorsement before it was leaked to the press. And then Gore's people were shocked that he didn't return Gore's calls after the word was nationally reported. There's obviously something going on behind the scenes here. A payoff to Gore in the form of an Ambassadorship should Dean win perhaps. I just don't think Gore has a future in Presidential politics. Unless Hillary is going to come from the shadows and pull Gore in as a running mate in this election, I think he's done. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

12-10-2003, 06:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Hey, if we're going to object to "Rethuglican", can we also frown on "Clintonistas"? __________________ it's quiet in here

12-11-2003, 07:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	This thread is going seriously off course. Lets discuss the value or non-value of Gores endorsement of Dean please. If it can't straighten out it will be locked. Last edited by redravin40; 12-11-2003 at 07:47 AM..

12-11-2003, 03:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
tokaok Crazy Location: Canada	tho i cant vote in the US, i think Dean is the one with the greates chance of victory vs bush. Gore is completly correct that Dean has done the only thing that matters in elections and that is getting people interested enough to go out and work/vote for you. it doesnt matter wich democrat wins, all the card carrying dems will vote for that person, it is the candidate who can motivate others to come out that will win. this is Dean atm.

12-11-2003, 06:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	OK, here's what Gore's endoresment did: It took a certain amount of Democrats who were sitting on the sideline waiting to see who would muster the oomph to look like he (face it, Mosely Braun is a vanity candidate) would run the primaries, and made them resolve in favor of Dean. Look at it this way: A practical liberal has got a tough choice. Kucinich is not electable, Sharpton is not sane, Edwards is not (politically) pubescent, Mosely Braun is not serious, and neither Clark nor Lieberman are Democrats. Fact of the matter is a Lieberman presidency would be almost as disasterous as a Bush residency. That leaves Dean, Gephardt, and Kerry. Of the three (or four if one includes Clark) viable candidates, Gore picked the one he could best get along with. 3 years ago, more people trusted Gore's judgement than certain other people I could name. I am inclined at this point to trust his judgement and throw my support behind Dean, rather than waiting to see who comes out ahead. To look at it another way, I trust that Al picked a winner. I think a large number of people who have been waiting will see it more or less the same way. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. Last edited by Tophat665; 12-11-2003 at 06:25 PM..

12-12-2003, 01:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	Way to analyze the situation Tophat665, your post is by far the most relevent and deft. I find it funny that only right wing is speculating so wildly about Democrat power struggles. Yes B.Clinton is still the most popular, and H.Clinton the most exciting prospect. This doesn't mean they solely hold power within the party, nor does it mean their egos demand exercising their sway for only personal prominence. Clinton and Gore long ago reconciled (9/2001 it was).

12-12-2003, 11:06 AM	#20 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	I agree with Tophat mostly. I see that Dean, Kerry, Gep AND Clark are all viable candidates. And this could turn out to be a close race that leaves the eventual winner bloody and battered while Bush keeps coasting through unopposed building up money. Gore saw this was necessary in that Dean has the most grassroot support and fires up the democratic base. He is a proven winner at drumming up money too. Not just for himself but for other congressmen and senator campaigns as well. (Which he has been doing for several different candidates) Dean threw his support behind the best option. While there will be some backlash, there will also be a mountain of support that well outweighs anything that can come against it. Remember, most americans voted Gore over Bush, and many Floridians are feeling cheated over the last election. I see nothing but good coming out of it. Hell, I can see a cabinet forming already because of this. Dean for President, Clark for VP or Sec of Defense. Graham for VP or Sec of Defense, Edwards for VP or Sec of Education. (Graham and Edwards are losing their seats because of the primaries They need somewhere to go) And perhaps... to get Nader to back the fuck off this time. Ralph Nader for Secretary of the Interior or Commerce. I am one of those Dean supporters as well. I've contributed 600 dollars to his campaign already, and after the nomination is secure I plan of passing over another 400.