Tophat665

... and I really feel like I need a shower.

OK, I'm dawg tired, so I am going to make this short.

Having a republican over to dinner is OK, I guess. If I know I will venomously disagree with someone's politics and/or religion, I don't talk about it at the dinner table unless my dog is hungry enough that what's left when they bolt will make a difference. This was my mother-in-law's house guset who had just driven my three year old the 20 miles home, so I was going to try to be nice. I mentioned that I don't discuss politics or religion at the dinner table, but this Texas yammerhead is on about her lovely chuch (pentacotalist death cultist - odd people) and her job begging money for the RNC. Well, I'm sitting there chuckling, but this is endurable.

Here's what gets me: This ditz is begging $250 at a time for the rethuglicans, and has the sheer... I don't know another word for it but blatant stupidity.. to bitch about how she'll never get promoted because of the glass ceiling. I damn near got a chunk of steak in my sinus on that one. Then she kvetches about how she makes so litytle money, because only the uys at the top make anything to speak of. No? Is this the Republican party you work for? You mean it doesn't actually trickle down.

After dinner, she asked me point blank if I was with a party, so I told her I was a Democrat. She got all shiny eyed (They LIVE!!!) and started to try to start one of those genteel arguments where nothing you say actually means what you thought it did. I had a 45 minute drive ahead of me (kareoke night. I rocked.) and the detritus of a week of life plus a baby shower and some new furniture to drag to the curb for folks who actually deserve their air to haul away. So, I let her go on (with my wife desparately trying with all sorts of little artful bits of converational terrorism to keep me from laying into this bimbo), and finally said "I have got to take out the trash." and left.

I like fighting with rethuglicans. Sometimes it makes my day. But not at my goddamn dinner table.

That is all.

Edit: Well, not quite all. She was talking about how her brother or friend or fellow drone (prob'ly one of my wife's cousins) was perpared for a career in something or another because his father had him lead prayers in his church, "And in our church, we don't read from a book. It has to come from the heart." My wife, bless her, followed that with, "So you just make them up?" but that's a different thing. I actually had to leave the room to be polite, because, at the time, Michael Palin was intoning in my head, "Ooh Lord. You are so BIG. So Absolutely Huge. Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I have to tell you. And you're so, well, special..." It isn't polite to point and laugh at the retarded or cripples either. Same principle.

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Ustwo

Thanks, could you tell us about the baby shower too?

The TFP politics board is generally pointless, but we like to pretend our posts have a political point.

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Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

redravin40

Life is politics.
Politics is life.

wilbjammin

In dealing with family friends and family members that are loud and vocal and have wildly different feelings about politics than you do, I think it is worthy of a post to talk about it. Dealing with people of different political stances than you have is something that we should talk about, and this is an appropriate place for it. We want to be heard, and if there is anyone that we really want to listen to us, it is people that disagree with us. So, how do we do it?

My uncle is known to yell about "those Democrats" and lauds Lars Larson, Rush Limbaugh and absolutely loves Bush and everything he does. The Republicans can do no wrong with him. My father took the route of placing plausible doubt into his mind. When he brings up Lars Larson my dad simply said, "I don't know if you can trust him, I think he skews the truth a little bit." And that was it. My uncle said "oh, I don't think so..." but he looked jostled.

I'm not saying I have all of the answers or that I agree with everything the Democrats do (a lot of them have really pissed me off in fact). What I am suggesting is that a good way to deal with people that you really disagree with is to just plant some seeds of doubt and let them do the rest of the work. If they do research and end up not changing their mind, at least you're encouraging some critical thinking. Arguing leads to people shutting off, it takes subtlety to reach people that are predisposed not to listen to the other side.

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Innominate.

Phaenx

I believe the point is that Liberal hate is adorable.

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"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

2wolves

The point I took from this real life parable was that preaching during meals is very rude and something a guest, however sure of their political positions, should not indulge in. Combining "Gott mit uns" with neo-conservatism during meals could lead to dispepsia or a "boot to the head."

2Wolves

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onetime2

I might have read the rest of the post if it didn't start off so blatantly inflamatory.

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tecoyah

I rather enjoyed the oblivious nature of your guest, as I too find great humor in the "grey veil" most republicans put over their heads.(not that most democrats are much better).
The glass ceiling bit was especially poignant since it can be extrapolated to this country at large, due mostly to good ol' george.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

lurkette

You might want to check your prejudices at the door. Your guest was a knucklehead, and that has nothing to do with political affiliation. Calling her names and mocking her political and religious inconsistencies doesn't make you look like a model citizen, either. Contrary to your protestations, it seems like you enjoyed the situation thoroughly because it gave you a chance to feel all superior. Not terribly enlightened, IMHO.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

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MSD

I'd just like to say that I envision this thread being closed soon, as I expect maybe 5 more posts before it degrades into typical yelling back and forth.

Please prove me wrong. Make sure it stays civil. I see the post above mine pulling it in the right direction.

mml

I think that it brings up an interesting topic. I know that I love to talk both politics and religion, but I really have to watch when and where. I happen to live in a predominantly (although begining to change) conservative state, both politically and religiously. I, however, am an agnostic democrat so I can really set a spark going. What I have learned, is that to keep things civil in situations where a real knock-down, drag-out is not appropriate, it is helpful to bring up a positive point for the opposition and then come back with a negative. "One thing I have to say, is that despite what everyone says, I don't think President Bush is stupid and I really believe he is doing what he thinks is right. My concern is that relies too heavily on advisors who apparently came to the White House determined to achieve certain goals regardless of the domestic or international situation." This type of statement has generally set the tone for the conversation and lets them know where I stand. It can denigrate, but if everything seems to be going south I always go with the "Listen I think we can agree to disagree on this one."

Sometimes it is hard for me not to get into political conversations, mainly because I grew up in a politically charged household where we did discuss these things at dinner. My mother was a staunch conservative and my dad a democartic activist - we grew up agruing about politics.

When do all think it is innapropriate to discuss these types of topics?

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
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ARTelevision

Yes- as was stated by 2wolves, exactly.
The fact is Tophat665 and I had an enjoyable meal and chat one fine day and while we inhabit political positions that are quite dissimilar, even remotely so, we had no personal problems in the least. I'd venture to say we left as fine friends and remain so to this day.

The point is a good one: proselytizing is generally unwelcome as so it should be - unless the recipient has signed the necessary waivers.

There's a way to retain collegiality and then there is rudeness.

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Conclamo Ludus

I missed the part where she treated you like an idiot, called you names, and later wrote a letter to the internet about how stupid you were.

If I misread, then I'm glad you were the "bigger" man for taking out the trash.

Tolerance can be ugly. Anger even uglier.

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Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
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Macheath

What I find amusing about this woman preaching and proselytizing her politics and religion was it reminded me of when I had a long lunch with my Great Aunt the other day. This woman is a Catholic Nun working at a remote school in Papua New Guinea. The thing is, regardless of what I was (I'm agnostic) there wasn't going to be any kind of preaching at that lunch.

She just told all these great stories about PNG while I told her all about Linux and open source software. It's kind of a contrast and Just interesting how it doesn't really depend so much on what people believe but more on whether they're on the same conversational wavelength.

Sparhawk

This woman obviously doesn't read her Miss Manners...

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

onetime2

Apparently neither does the original poster.

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Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Lebell

I don't see this thread going anywhere except downhill.

Closed.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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