Why don't they just admit they are a branch of the Republican party? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Superbelt · 11-13-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Aparently, there's more than one memo circulating. Manuel Miranda, a staffer for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist sent a memo around to Republicans regarding the 30 hour filibuster. Fox News wanted to make sure they started on time, so they could put in on their 'unbiased' show.

They pointed to a memo from Manuel Miranda, a staffer for Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), which said:

"It is important to double efforts to get your boss to S-230 on time ... Fox News Channel is really excited about this marathon and Brit Hume at 6 would love to open with all our 51 senators walking onto the floor -- the producer wants to know will we walk in exactly at 6:02 when the show starts so they get it live to open Brit Hume's show? Or if not, can we give them an exact time for the walk-in start?"

http://www.thehill.com/story.asp?id=139

Goddamn.

Peetster · 11-13-2003, 11:21 AM

Fair and balanced showmanship. ;-)

Liquor Dealer · 11-13-2003, 12:27 PM

So what's the problem? Everything that is being done by both sides is for show - they want all the publicity they can get to reach the public because the public are the only ones who can put an end to the nonsense that is going on. If you're really serious about this contact your Senator and tell them how you feel - that's the only way anyone is going to inject anything approaching intelligence into this thing.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-13-2003, 12:29 PM

Fox = Right, Cnn = Left... nothing new there.

rogue49 · 11-13-2003, 12:33 PM

My attitude is...take your news from EVERYWHERE.

Sort out the details for yourself,
then you'll only have to deal with your own opinions & biases.

Come on....use a brain cell or two...all of them have their own agenda,
develop your own instead.

Bill O'Rights · 11-13-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue49
My attitude is...take your news from EVERYWHERE.

Sort out the details for yourself,
then you'll only have to deal with your own opinions & biases.

Come on....use a brain cell or two...all of them have their own agenda,
develop your own instead.

'Nuff said.

SLM3 · 11-13-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Fox = Right, Cnn = Left... nothing new there.

From a non-US perspective:

Fox = Right, CNN= A Little Less Right

SLM3

Sledge · 11-13-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SLM3
From a non-US perspective:

Fox = Right, CNN= A Little Less Right

SLM3

Nicely done.

Mojo_PeiPei · 11-13-2003, 10:08 PM

How far left is where you live?

irateplatypus · 11-13-2003, 10:17 PM

slm3 must live in hawaii... its as far left as my trusty world map will show.

auswegian · 11-14-2003, 06:37 AM

Oh good lord. This is getting worse. Wake me when "Fox News presents: Old White Men With Too Much Power - The Musical" comes out live from Capital Hill.

Everyday, in every way, those survivalist nutters in the backwoods with bunkers and shotguns seem more and more like rational human beings.

apechild · 11-14-2003, 06:51 AM

As long as we're doing the left-o-meter thing, how about....

CBS/ABC/NBC=UltraLeft
CNN=Left
Fox=Center

No? Challenge me. How is FoxNews "right?"

Special_K · 11-14-2003, 07:15 AM

I don't think the debate here is so much of which news organization leans which way. In my opinion, it goes more into how our media has become the mouthpiece for whichever ideology it supports.

The media is not functioning as a watchdog of the government to keep it in check, it is functioning as the cheerleaders for their respective teams.

A local incident to illustrate the feebleness of the media. In Columbus, the mayor ran unopposed in this year's election. Due to some screw-up, the Republicans were unable to get a name on the ballot. Many in Columbus feel that this mayorship is a stepping stone for Mike Coleman to run for Ohio's governor in 2006. After the election, a local news reporter asked Mayor Coleman about rumors of a gubernatorial run. The mayor shot her a dirty look on camera. She apologized for asking an uncomfortable question.

I quote superbelt: "Goddamn."

prb · 11-14-2003, 07:20 AM

apechild: No one can help you. You are too far gone.

apechild · 11-14-2003, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prb
apechild: No one can help you. You are too far gone.

I hear accusations of FoxNews being conservative, but never have I seen well presented evidence supporting that claim.

Books have been written about the other networks. To wit, Bias, by Bernard Goldberg.

But again, in the interest of constructive discussion, why don't you show us some substance?

Instead of dismissing me as "too far gone," try clearly stating your position and defending it with real examples, logical deduction, and rational reasoning. If you do so, some people here might actually take you seriously.

Superbelt · 11-14-2003, 07:44 AM

Goldbergs books are full of inaccuracies. Many of his cites have articles completely unrelated to the subject.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-14-2003, 08:04 AM

The old media bias thread. Haven't we done this one to death?

There is no such thing as objective reporting. Fox has made a name for themselves for being conservative and appealing to a conservative audience. And strangely enough they've taken it to the bank. They're still making a killing in the ratings war. If Fox news or any other station is your sole source of news, then you will seriously limit your exposure to current events. This isn't remotely surprising, or in my opinion dangerous. Unbiased media has been finally exposed for being the myth that it always has been. I think this is a good thing. As people who are well-informed, which most of TFP politics are, we know better than to buy into any media outlet's objectivity. This is why most of us are better informed, we filter the news through as many locations as we can, and attempt to find a gem of truth in the pile of bullshit. Everyone's got an agenda. Everyone wraps the facts around their own experiences and beliefs in order to find understanding, reporters are no different. Its just the way our brains work.

The biggest problem with "calling out" different media outlets on their bias, is that depending on where you stand on the political spectrum, you will find a different bias. Some people will say CNN is not left enough, some will say it is center, some will say it is ultra left. Some will say Fox isn't right enough, etc. This is just more evidence as to how we interpret "the facts" around our own preconceived ideas.

Sparhawk · 11-14-2003, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apechild
CBS/ABC/NBC=UltraLeft
CNN=Left
Fox=Center

Quote:

Originally posted by apechild
try clearly stating your position and defending it with real examples, logical deduction, and rational reasoning. If you do so, some people here might actually take you seriously.

How about taking your own advice and give us some real examples, logical deduction, and rational reasoning. If YOU do so, some people here might actually take you seriously.

apechild · 11-14-2003, 11:44 AM

Sparhawk, perhaps you misinterpreted my comment (and you only quoted one portion, somewhat out of its context). So, I'll try to clarify.

I saw a lot of seemingly arbitrary labels being used pretty recklessly. This network is liberal, that network is conservative, etc. Nowhere did anyone offer any substantive reasoning or documentation to support their assertions - particularly with respect to the assertion that Fox News has a distinct conservative bias.

In other words, I'm not convinced.

Now, as I mentioned, there is a wealth of published information documenting a certain bias at CBS and other networks, but I have not seen any such documentation showing bias at Fox News. Perhpas I'm not looking in the right places, but I haven't seen it.

In the interest of objectivity and fairness, I think it's improper to let broad accusations of bias go unchallenged.

To those who make the accusation that fox news is biased, the burden of proof is upon you.

Like I said, challenge me, and show me how Fox News is conservative.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-14-2003, 12:41 PM

I understand your response, but it doesn't take much digging to find a media watchdog site for any major media outlet. Here is one for Fox news

http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/foxbias.htm

This all goes back to my earlier point though. Whether or not you want to believe evidence of a bias often depends on your own beliefs. Most media watchdog sites are just biased in the other direction. You can spin anything into any direction, which is why it is somewhat fruitless to expect any journalist to be objective. Its also so much easier to see a bias that you disagree with. This is why depending on your stance in the political spectrum, you will find a different degree of bias in something. You may be further to the right than a conservative bias, and you wouldn't see what the big deal is. Same can be said about the left.

apechild · 11-14-2003, 01:31 PM

Conclamo Ludus,
That's the best you can do - post a link from "oreilly sucks dot com?"

OK, I followed the link and, hidden among a number of the poorly written opinion pieces there does appear to be one legitimate study referenced, the one conducted by FAIR (http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/sources.html). The next best thing I saw was a commentary where the author concluded that Fox News is biased because "Alan Colmes looks like a martian."

Back to the FAIR article. It states, in part, that "of the 56 partisan guests on Special Report between January and May, 50 were Republicans and six were Democrats -- a greater than 8 to 1 imbalance. In other words, 89 percent of guests with a party affiliation were Republicans. "

Yes - that certainly suggests a significant degree of bias on Brit Hume's show. That's precisely the sort of thing I was hoping someone could show me and I thank you for posting it.

However, I should caution that I don't take seriously comments suggesting that O'Reilly's conservative leanings somehow indicate all the news reporting on Fox, or the organization itself, is biased. I also don't see how the article posted above (from thehill.com) suggests any bias either. From the article itself:

Quote:

Keys said ...that other networks had expressed the same interest. Fox had not requested special treatment, she added.

Let me conclude by saying that I recognize and respect the point that Conclamu Ludus is has been conveying. I, however, will continue to favor the Fox Report over Dan Rather during the 7pm timeslot.

Conclamo Ludus · 11-14-2003, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apechild
Conclamo Ludus,
That's the best you can do - post a link from "oreilly sucks dot com?"

This is what I meant when I said that most media watchdog sites are just biased the other direction. Try googling any media outlet followed by the word "bias". I think Foxnews leads to the right in comparison with most other news outlets, but most other media outlets seem pretty left to me. Like I said, I don't think its a bad thing anymore, I think its just part of how it works. If you are aware of one's leanings, then you can be better aware of your own. Politically I tend to lean slightly to the right, but I am a pretty liberal thinker most of the time. Fox is one of many sources for news that I take in, and I value it as much as the next.

MSD · 11-14-2003, 03:45 PM

If you're basing bias on the ratio of conservative to liberal anchors, then CNN is conservative because they have no big-name liberal anchors to balance Zahn and Dobbs. Left or right, I consider their credibility to have been permanently damaged due to revelations that they covered up atrocities committed by Saddam's regime in order to get better press coverage.

My reasoning for the conservative label for Fox:

Hannity & Colmes: From what I've seen, Hanity (a conservative) is given a lot more time to voice his opinionthan Colmes (slight-left modrate who seems liberal due to the overwhelmingly conservative views of his co-host.) The producers obviously let the hosts run the show (not necessarily a bad thing) and Hannity is able to pretty much take over and bash any liberal who comes on the air, and praise conservative guests for their valuable opinions. Alan Colmes, although he may look like a Martian (I'd love to see the article that said that

) has far less time to voice his opinion or to question or praise the guests on the show. Hannity also gets live coverage of his radio show on Fox, a move that liberal producers wouldn't make.

O'Reilly: Although he claims to be fair, he allows conservative guest to say anything short of the utterly ridiculous without any proof. When liberal guests come close to making a successful argument against his, he cuts them off, sometimes sinking to the level of yelling at them to shut up.

Brit Hume: http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/sources.html - this article has covered all of the major points that I would have made, so I don't feel that I need to restate them. I'd just like to point out that his show as originally a daily hour dedicated to updates on the Clinton Scandal.

Tony Snow: Frequent guest-host on Rush Limbaugh's show, wrote an endorsement for Bob Dole for the RNC's magazine "Rising Tide." Trent Lott (undoubtedly a conservative,) who spoke after Snow filled in for an absent speaker at a meeting of the Republican Youth Caucus, began his speech with a shout, "How about Tony Snow in 2008?"

On news segments that show letters from viewers in response to Hard News, letters from conservatives outnumber those from liberals and moderates. This shows that either Fox's producers are trying to get the Conservatve voice heard, or that the very few liberals who watch Fox News have to write angry, disorganized, unintelligent letters. This would indicate that Fox News either favors or is favored by conservatives, the cause of which is their conservative bias.

I would not mind if Fox admitted to being conservative-slanted, or if they made no comment, but they feel that they need to label themselves "Fair and Balanced," as if we wouldn't think so if they didn't cram that "fact" down our throats after every commercial.

11-13-2003, 12:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	So what's the problem? Everything that is being done by both sides is for show - they want all the publicity they can get to reach the public because the public are the only ones who can put an end to the nonsense that is going on. If you're really serious about this contact your Senator and tell them how you feel - that's the only way anyone is going to inject anything approaching intelligence into this thing. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!! Last edited by Liquor Dealer; 11-13-2003 at 12:30 PM..

11-13-2003, 12:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Fox = Right, Cnn = Left... nothing new there. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-13-2003, 10:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	How far left is where you live? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

11-13-2003, 10:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	slm3 must live in hawaii... its as far left as my trusty world map will show. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

11-14-2003, 06:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
auswegian Crazy Location: Perth, Australia	Oh good lord. This is getting worse. Wake me when "Fox News presents: Old White Men With Too Much Power - The Musical" comes out live from Capital Hill. Everyday, in every way, those survivalist nutters in the backwoods with bunkers and shotguns seem more and more like rational human beings. __________________ "Look, I'm pretty relaxed for a guy who just lost money on a rave. And who's currently speeding down the highway drunk off my tits. And I'm being chased by someone in a blue Corolla. Woohoo! I just ran a red light!"

11-13-2003, 11:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	Fair and balanced showmanship. ;-)

11-13-2003, 12:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	My attitude is...take your news from EVERYWHERE. Sort out the details for yourself, then you'll only have to deal with your own opinions & biases. Come on....use a brain cell or two...all of them have their own agenda, develop your own instead.

11-14-2003, 06:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
apechild Crazy Location: Vermont	As long as we're doing the left-o-meter thing, how about.... CBS/ABC/NBC=UltraLeft CNN=Left Fox=Center No? Challenge me. How is FoxNews "right?" __________________ Skwerl. Its wuts fer dinner.

11-14-2003, 07:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Special_K Upright	I don't think the debate here is so much of which news organization leans which way. In my opinion, it goes more into how our media has become the mouthpiece for whichever ideology it supports. The media is not functioning as a watchdog of the government to keep it in check, it is functioning as the cheerleaders for their respective teams. A local incident to illustrate the feebleness of the media. In Columbus, the mayor ran unopposed in this year's election. Due to some screw-up, the Republicans were unable to get a name on the ballot. Many in Columbus feel that this mayorship is a stepping stone for Mike Coleman to run for Ohio's governor in 2006. After the election, a local news reporter asked Mayor Coleman about rumors of a gubernatorial run. The mayor shot her a dirty look on camera. She apologized for asking an uncomfortable question. I quote superbelt: "Goddamn." __________________ I can't feel my legs! I have no legs!

11-14-2003, 07:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
prb Psycho	apechild: No one can help you. You are too far gone.

11-14-2003, 07:44 AM	#16 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Goldbergs books are full of inaccuracies. Many of his cites have articles completely unrelated to the subject.

11-14-2003, 08:04 AM	#17 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	The old media bias thread. Haven't we done this one to death? There is no such thing as objective reporting. Fox has made a name for themselves for being conservative and appealing to a conservative audience. And strangely enough they've taken it to the bank. They're still making a killing in the ratings war. If Fox news or any other station is your sole source of news, then you will seriously limit your exposure to current events. This isn't remotely surprising, or in my opinion dangerous. Unbiased media has been finally exposed for being the myth that it always has been. I think this is a good thing. As people who are well-informed, which most of TFP politics are, we know better than to buy into any media outlet's objectivity. This is why most of us are better informed, we filter the news through as many locations as we can, and attempt to find a gem of truth in the pile of bullshit. Everyone's got an agenda. Everyone wraps the facts around their own experiences and beliefs in order to find understanding, reporters are no different. Its just the way our brains work. The biggest problem with "calling out" different media outlets on their bias, is that depending on where you stand on the political spectrum, you will find a different bias. Some people will say CNN is not left enough, some will say it is center, some will say it is ultra left. Some will say Fox isn't right enough, etc. This is just more evidence as to how we interpret "the facts" around our own preconceived ideas. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

11-14-2003, 11:44 AM	#19 (permalink)
apechild Crazy Location: Vermont	Sparhawk, perhaps you misinterpreted my comment (and you only quoted one portion, somewhat out of its context). So, I'll try to clarify. I saw a lot of seemingly arbitrary labels being used pretty recklessly. This network is liberal, that network is conservative, etc. Nowhere did anyone offer any substantive reasoning or documentation to support their assertions - particularly with respect to the assertion that Fox News has a distinct conservative bias. In other words, I'm not convinced. Now, as I mentioned, there is a wealth of published information documenting a certain bias at CBS and other networks, but I have not seen any such documentation showing bias at Fox News. Perhpas I'm not looking in the right places, but I haven't seen it. In the interest of objectivity and fairness, I think it's improper to let broad accusations of bias go unchallenged. To those who make the accusation that fox news is biased, the burden of proof is upon you. Like I said, challenge me, and show me how Fox News is conservative. __________________ Skwerl. Its wuts fer dinner.

11-14-2003, 12:41 PM	#20 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	I understand your response, but it doesn't take much digging to find a media watchdog site for any major media outlet. Here is one for Fox news http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/foxbias.htm This all goes back to my earlier point though. Whether or not you want to believe evidence of a bias often depends on your own beliefs. Most media watchdog sites are just biased in the other direction. You can spin anything into any direction, which is why it is somewhat fruitless to expect any journalist to be objective. Its also so much easier to see a bias that you disagree with. This is why depending on your stance in the political spectrum, you will find a different degree of bias in something. You may be further to the right than a conservative bias, and you wouldn't see what the big deal is. Same can be said about the left. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

11-14-2003, 03:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	If you're basing bias on the ratio of conservative to liberal anchors, then CNN is conservative because they have no big-name liberal anchors to balance Zahn and Dobbs. Left or right, I consider their credibility to have been permanently damaged due to revelations that they covered up atrocities committed by Saddam's regime in order to get better press coverage. My reasoning for the conservative label for Fox: Hannity & Colmes: From what I've seen, Hanity (a conservative) is given a lot more time to voice his opinionthan Colmes (slight-left modrate who seems liberal due to the overwhelmingly conservative views of his co-host.) The producers obviously let the hosts run the show (not necessarily a bad thing) and Hannity is able to pretty much take over and bash any liberal who comes on the air, and praise conservative guests for their valuable opinions. Alan Colmes, although he may look like a Martian (I'd love to see the article that said that ) has far less time to voice his opinion or to question or praise the guests on the show. Hannity also gets live coverage of his radio show on Fox, a move that liberal producers wouldn't make. O'Reilly: Although he claims to be fair, he allows conservative guest to say anything short of the utterly ridiculous without any proof. When liberal guests come close to making a successful argument against his, he cuts them off, sometimes sinking to the level of yelling at them to shut up. Brit Hume: http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/sources.html - this article has covered all of the major points that I would have made, so I don't feel that I need to restate them. I'd just like to point out that his show as originally a daily hour dedicated to updates on the Clinton Scandal. Tony Snow: Frequent guest-host on Rush Limbaugh's show, wrote an endorsement for Bob Dole for the RNC's magazine "Rising Tide." Trent Lott (undoubtedly a conservative,) who spoke after Snow filled in for an absent speaker at a meeting of the Republican Youth Caucus, began his speech with a shout, "How about Tony Snow in 2008?" On news segments that show letters from viewers in response to Hard News, letters from conservatives outnumber those from liberals and moderates. This shows that either Fox's producers are trying to get the Conservatve voice heard, or that the very few liberals who watch Fox News have to write angry, disorganized, unintelligent letters. This would indicate that Fox News either favors or is favored by conservatives, the cause of which is their conservative bias. I would not mind if Fox admitted to being conservative-slanted, or if they made no comment, but they feel that they need to label themselves "Fair and Balanced," as if we wouldn't think so if they didn't cram that "fact" down our throats after every commercial.