Mael

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716


while i'm sure it's a sign of the apocalypse, i hope arafat saying this does help the situation out there. but i think it could be too good to be legit...

onetime2

Tough to give much credence to it since it's been said before and the violence continued. Words are one thing, actions another.

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Food Eater Lad

People seem to forget that on 9 11 Israel broke the peace by moving in tanks into Palastine. Sharon figured the US wouldnt mind, and this backfired big time, as Bush ordered him to pull back. This started this three years of violence.

Mael

besides the fact that i think what you said is completely wrong, especially when you consider right now is 11/03, and 9/11/01 is barely 2 years ago, even if that were true that has nothing to do with it. this article is about arafat, who has a less than stellar track record when it comes to the peace process and what he says. do not pass go, do not collect $100.

Food Eater Lad

So Sharon didnt roll tanks into Palastine as the Towers were burning? Bush didnt ask him to pull the tanks back? The violence DIDNT explode after this? Boy talk about revisionist history.

Tophat665

I trust Arafat only slightly more than Son of Bush. If he means it, this is great. More likely, though, he is trying to do the minimum necessary to preserve the appearance of a peace process. When the Palestinians consolidate their security forces into an effective fighting unit under a single head or at least with a clear line of responsibility, and use them to go after muslim terrorists (as the Israelis ought to be going after illegal settlers), then I'll believe he wants peace.

HOWEVER, Arafat is to Islamist extreminists as Sharon is to settlers as the US is to Israel: may not like what they do, but it's at least poilitically inexpedient, at worst an invitiation to assassination (remember Rabin?) for the one to oppose the other.

Mael, FEL:
Yes Israel rolled tanks into the occupied territories on 9/11, but let's not call each other names over it. It is arguable whether that was what broke the peace or if it was some earlier action, and, frankly, given that Israel's main trading partner in the blowing shit up business is the Palestinians, I think sitting on them for a couple of days after a major terrorist incident while unjust was nonetheless probably wise and certainly inevitable.

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Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Mael

well, according to electronic intifada, the second intifada started either in sept. or october 2000. i'm not sure which because it says on it's site timeline, that "On February 23, 2001, The Electronic Intifada website was launched five months after the beginning of the second Palestinian Intifada and shortly after the election of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. "

so right now your being revisionist in what has happened. the current conflict started a year before 9/11, and the tanks had nothing to do with the start of renewed hostilities, they'd already been going for year. i'm not saying whether it was right or wrong for them to do that.

i posted this hoping to start a discussion about arafat and the role he's played up to this point and what people think now that he's said this. if you don't have anything to say on that subject, please refrain from posting. thanks.

here's the link that i got the above quote from.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1187.shtml

i saw no name calling by either of us.

Mojo_PeiPei

I think he's full of shit, he cares nothing for the Palestinian people or anyone besides himself. Sharon would've been smart to kill him back in Lebanon when he had the chance. After stirring shit up for 30+ years I find it hard to believe he has finally gotten over his hatred and come to his senses.

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To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Sun Tzu

Words on either side are meaningless until the settlements that shouldnt be there are dismantled and and military intervention by the IDF against settlers that take it upon themselves to start new ones is stopped. If this was going to happen it would have already. So what it boils down to is Arafat probably comprehending that Sharon isnt going to back down and will continue to allow expansion. Sharon must surely understand that he's not going to be able to push the rest of the indigenous population over to Jordan without their retaliation. Its a grim picture that in time is going to perpetuate into the opening of Pandora's box.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Mephisto2

What an amazingly stupid thing to say.

He "cares nothing for the Palestinian people..."?

Right...

You may not like Arafat (not particularly a fan of him myself), but try not to let your bias or bigotry induce you to posting nonesense.

Mr Mephisto

Mojo_PeiPei

How does he care for them? I mean its not like he has personally profitted more then 300+ million dollars by perpetuating the cycle of violence. He didn't embezzle aid money from the EU to fund terrorism, because he is the moral caring Palestinian leader (funny though because he is Egyptian...).

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Liquor Dealer

Did you ever wonder just how much Arafat stands to lose if the conflict even slows down?

How much does he have now? Depending on which source you look at it varies - at the lowest end it is one helluva lot of money!

At the high end!!! The sky is the limit.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/986307/posts

An audit of the Palestinian Authority revealed that President Yasser Arafat had diverted US$900 million in public funds to a special bank account he controlled and most of the money was later invested in Palestinian assets, an International Monetary Fund official said Saturday.

Karim Nashashibi, IMF resident representative in the West Bank and Gaza, credited openness and transparency in the Palestinian Authority's accounting under Finance Minister Salam Fayad for disclosing the transfers between 1995 and 2000.

The large majority of the money was invested in Palestinian assets at home and abroad, Nashashibi said. A Palestinian Investment Fund was established to manage those assets and privatize them, he added.


http://www.insignificantthoughts.com...es/000514.html

At a time when the Palestinian people need it the most, Arafat is hoarding cash to the tune of $1.3 billion US. That's billion. With a B. Poor Arafat who can't bear to see the plight of the Palestinian people has a personal fortune that rivals some of the richest people in most industrialized nations.

Here's a taste of some disturbing statistics:

Arafat's wealth is held in bank accounts, real estate and other assets that can easily be made liquid.
The bank accounts are spread about in Europe, Arab countries, the Far East - and even the United States - under different companies controlled by Arafat.

Arafat has made some of his top deputies, including Abu Ala, Abu Mazen and Nabil Shaath, very rich.

"Arafat took care of his closest aides. Some of them have tens of millions of dollars," one source said.

The main source of Arafat's wealth is believed to be the approximately $6 billion contributed by the United States, Japan and European countries as financial aid to the authority from 1993 to 2000, sources said.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Dail...002081603.html

Israel: Arafat's personal wealth is $ 3.1 billion
Palestine-Israel, Politics, 8/16/2002

Israeli parliamentary sources on Wednesday quoted the chairman of the Israeli military intelligence Gen. Aharon Zeafi saying that the Palestinian President Yasser Arafat owns a fortune estimated at $ 3.1 billion.

Zeafi who submitted a report to the defense and foreign affairs committee in the Israeli Knesset said that Arafat's economic advisor Muhammad Rasheed "has almost organized the calculations of the Palestinian authority," but he could not succeed in halting "the imports monopolies in ( the Palestinian territories) which constitutes the source of Arafat's personal revenues

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Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

SLM3

Indeed, Arafat is living a very lavish lifestyle and has been for decades while Palestinians starve in the streets.

Are you really going to pretend like you've got it all figured out?

While I think Arafat is long overdue to step down and allow the next generation to take up the cause, he isn't a barrier to peace. That's rediculous. He hasn't been given a serious opportunity for peace.


SLM3

rogue49

Excuse me if I take a "wait 'n see" attitude.

Both sides are known for starting the "fun" again,
despite words said previously.

OFKU0

Nothing compared to what Sharon will lose.

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Mojo_PeiPei

What will Sharon loose? As much as many people hate him, he has been a member of the Israeli hierarchy for more then 50 years. Sharon is an elected offical, and I'd say moreso then Arafat is. Arafat has pretty much had a choke on Palestinian power since 1967', Sharon has paid his dues and worked his way to the top. Sharon hasn't embezzled money from his people and invoked hatred to perpetuate the horrible cycle ( at the same time I won't argue that he has not helped it any with the settlements). Despite how big of a douche bag Sharon may be he is a genuine hero of the Israeli people. He has been fighting for their cause since the fight for independence through every major armed conflict up through Lebanon, unlike Arafat he has always been on the frontlines.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

OFKU0

I think Sharon is a hero to the Isreali's who support his hardline actions. Recently though in the Juresalem Post even though most people support him as the leader,the Isreali's are increasingly becoming disenfranchised by the violence that can't be controlled, the illegal settlements that most Isreali's now see as an equal obsticle to peace,corruption charges against him and dealing with terrorists behind closed doors. The only power Sharon has is in not giving into a Palestinian state. Once that happens all his actions to avoid that will become moot. Palestinian statehood = Sharon out of power.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Liquor Dealer

So you're aying that all Sharon has to gain from this is that he will stay in power for so long as the conflict continues? All I have ever seen from any of the Israeli heirarchy is a desire fr the shit to stop. I have never seen rumors of great personal wealth being gained, etc. as is attributed to Arafat. I think if this were settled you'd never hear from Sharon again and he would be the happiest man on earth - just my opinion but that's the way I see it - Arafat, on the otherhand, would become totally useless to anyone if the shit were to stop.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

OFKU0

I hear you and can agree. Unfortunately people on both sides have to wait until both Sharon and Arafat( especially Arafat) are out of the way for anything substantial to happen unless the process is so entrenched in concrete that nothing can come about. It is really to bad for the people on both sides,especially the young. Not a great way to live life.

__________________
" In Canada, you can tell the most blatant lie in a calm voice, and people will believe you over someone who's a little passionate about the truth." David Warren, Western Standard.

Mojo_PeiPei

Here is the thing that I have noticed... Sharon has only been PM for what 3-4 years? Arafat has been PLO leader for what 36 years??? I don't think the faulty peace has anything to do with Sharon.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

MuadDib

You have to realize that most of Arafats money is invested in Palestinian affairs and it is being used. Beyond that it is money that the Palestinian people are aware of and that they have him hold in trust for them. If they ever get their own nation its gonna take a lot more than $3.1 billion to build it.

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nirol

He holds this money in trust? What would you think if Bush transferred the 87 Billion recently approved to his own money market account. All the Palestinians I know hate him and know he is a complete fraud.
Years ago he nearly died in a plane crash. He also nearly lost the notebook that he kept the finances of the PLO recorded in. This bothered him a great deal more. He controls everything in Palestine through the purse strings. This is why he is afraid of HAMAS and Hezbollah, they do not rely on him for funding and have an independant political base.
If he was serious about peace, he would stop trying to instill hate in generations of Palestinian youth. The Israelis would also do well to stop this too. It is difficult to foresee two nations living peaceably side by side.

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Sun Tzu

I think it might be a possibility that Arafat is the only international “symbol” the Palestinians see the world viewing as their right to an existence in the international community. It can be said that he doesn’t allow for democratic processes to allow others in for leadership (this can be debated). It can also be said he has embezzled millions to live a lavish lifestyle in the crumbling remains of what used to be his place of general operations. This is all accomplished by keeping the entire Palestinian populous under his thumb with his security forces; if there’s any left. Is he corrupt? No more than any other politician I see these days. Of course that doesn’t help any, but I don’t see any strong opposition. It seems from history a “people” will only tolerate so much corruption before they retaliate against their forced governmental oppressors. From what I see, the Palestinians cheer for him and honor him as their leader. I don’t see any stones being thrown in his broken direction. I do see the next generation of Palestinian politicians becoming irritated and tired with Arafat or at least the political American view of him as well as seeing it hinder their cause.

When the founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence there was a large number that were against slavery. However they understood the fact the war against KG would be lost without the support of the slave owners and it was a fight that would have to take place further down the road.

In comparison it’s the only thing I can think of why Arafat hasn’t been forced out. An internal civil war is the last thing they need. As far as his own issues why he hasn’t stepped down—that may be his own shortcoming of pride, lust for power (?), or something else. Greed for money? Where and how? As I said before, unless something has changed or I’m interpreting what I see wrong he has been not only confined to Israel, but to the ruins of his compound. Does he have jacuzzis in there, wild parties, only the best food privately shipped in from all over the world?

If the money is being spent on something else such warfare, perhaps that’s why those around him haven’t clamped down. Reasons for the “whys and why nots” of that are an entirely different discussion, and have been here multiple times. IMO if this situation isn’t corrected it has the potential of becoming something future generations will be going to war over.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking