Same letter signed by different soldiers - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jesus Pimp · 10-13-2003, 07:15 AM

This is pretty sad on Bush's part..

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Oct. 13 (UPI) -- As U.S. opinion on Iraq grows more negative, letters from hometown soldiers describing their successes have been appearing in newspapers across the country.

But many of them are the same form letter merely signed with different soldiers' names, USA Today said.

A Gannett News Service search found the identical letter in 11 newspapers. The five-paragraph letter cites soldiers' efforts to rebuild the infrastructure in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk.

"The quality of life and security for the citizens has been largely restored, and we are a large part of why that has happened," the letter reads. "The majority of the city has welcomed our presence with open arms."

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said he was not aware of any coordinated campaign among troops to send letters supportive of the war back home. But Whitman said he wasn't surprised because many U.S. troops are discouraged not enough positive news is being reported.

It's not clear who wrote the letter or organized sending it to soldiers' hometown papers, USA Today said.

Soldiers contacted by Gannett said though they agreed with the thrust of the letter, they had not authorized their names' use on it.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...3813-6856r.htm

Redlemon · 10-13-2003, 07:36 AM

Astroturf campaigns will be caught in these days. Companies/governments/etc. can't get away with them anymore.

Superbelt · 10-13-2003, 07:59 AM

Can't win public and military opinion, manufacture it.

reconmike · 10-13-2003, 08:10 AM

I read somewhere the military told these troops, if they did not sign this letter they would have to do another tour in Iraq, then go to the afgan wasteland.

chavos · 10-13-2003, 08:55 AM

cynical bastards...let the soliders tell their own stories...

Bill O'Rights · 10-13-2003, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chavos
cynical bastards...let the soliders tell their own stories...

I think maybe that's what they're afraid of.

The_Dude · 10-13-2003, 10:04 AM

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=13644

haHA! one of these letters were posted before and we had a discussion about the legimate the letter was.

Nad Adam · 10-13-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=13644

haHA! one of these letters were posted before and we had a discussion about the legimate the letter was.

aaahahaaaaa, thats hilarious.

Conclamo Ludus · 10-13-2003, 11:14 AM

Actually if you guys bothered to read the letter you'll notice it is a completely different letter, every word of it actually. And its been verified at least by snopes.com as being a real letter. Unfortunately the group letters about Iraq that have been sent out will now destroy any credibility a soldier's letter might carry. This is of course to many people's enjoyment unfortunately. Some people love to be vindicated by bad news. The letter we were argueing about earlier has not yet been identified under anybody else's name. Read them both. They are quite different.

Snopes.com letter link

The_Dude · 10-13-2003, 02:35 PM

i really doubt that the pentagon has only 1 template that they use to send out these letters. i'm not saying that the one posted here before was fake, but it really sheds more light into the question of its legitamacy.

and just because snopes said something is true doesnt necessarily mean it is true.

seretogis · 10-13-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus Pimp
This is pretty sad on Bush's part..

Bush? What? For all we know, Jayson Blair could have written and distributed the letters.

ubertuber · 10-13-2003, 04:48 PM

Seems a little strange that someone would stage a PR "hoax" like this and use real soldier's names. After all, it took the media about 3 hours to track these guys down and ask them if they wrote the letters themselves. Sort of weak planning if you ask me. I might have just made some people up.

maximusveritas · 10-13-2003, 04:52 PM

They were probably counting on the media not asking questions as usual.

Liquor Dealer · 10-13-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
i really doubt that the pentagon has only 1 template that they use to send out these letters. i'm not saying that the one posted here before was fake, but it really sheds more light into the question of its legitamacy.

and just because snopes said something is true doesnt necessarily mean it is true.

And I really have very serious doubts that the Pentagon had anything what-so-ever to do with it.

ubertuber · 10-13-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
And I really have very serious doubts that the Pentagon had anything what-so-ever to do with it.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking when I posted before. Just didn't say it clearly enough.

Macheath · 10-13-2003, 06:05 PM

I want to hear the experiences of a lot of different soldiers; the good and the bad...not the form letter of a single eager <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108911,00.asp">"GOP team leader"</a> casting around the mess tent with a clipboard and a form letter.

Kadath · 10-13-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
Actually if you guys bothered to read the letter you'll notice it is a completely different letter, every word of it actually. And its been verified at least by snopes.com as being a real letter. Unfortunately the group letters about Iraq that have been sent out will now destroy any credibility a soldier's letter might carry. This is of course to many people's enjoyment unfortunately. Some people love to be vindicated by bad news. The letter we were argueing about earlier has not yet been identified under anybody else's name. Read them both. They are quite different.

Snopes.com letter link

From the link:
"This item is "true" in the sense that Eric Rydbom is indeed an engineer stationed in Iraq with the Army's 4th Infantry Division, and he sends monthly e-mail dispatches such as the one quoted above to fellow members of his congregation at the First Lutheran Church of Richmond Beach in Shorline, Washington. This piece was one of those messages, forwarded to the church's prayer chain and thence to the larger world via the Internet."

That doesn't seem like the most enthusiastic verification.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-13-2003, 10:37 PM

Frankly, the pentagon would be smarter than this. They have trained psyops and propaganda people.

This seems to me to be just some dumb soldiers, and maybe a dumb low ranking officer, with a really dumb idea.

Never assume a conspiracy when "dumb" will do.

Conclamo Ludus · 10-14-2003, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
From the link:
"This item is "true" in the sense that Eric Rydbom is indeed an engineer stationed in Iraq with the Army's 4th Infantry Division, and he sends monthly e-mail dispatches such as the one quoted above to fellow members of his congregation at the First Lutheran Church of Richmond Beach in Shorline, Washington. This piece was one of those messages, forwarded to the church's prayer chain and thence to the larger world via the Internet."

That doesn't seem like the most enthusiastic verification.

No but it is a verification. If you have another letter that is nearly word-for-word like this one, then I will jump up and down and shout foul! But some are assuming that this was one of those letters. There is nothing at all to indicate this, and there is at least one independent source that verifies where the letter came from. The reason that it isn't enthusiastic is because Snopes doesn't really mess around with a political agenda. They just check up on background sources on things to say whether or not its an urban myth or rumor. I'm just disappointed in the military for having anything to do with a mass mailing letter, and here is exactly why. Now anybody who refuses to believe that there could be any progress in Iraq, is going to denounce any letter that comes out of there as a letter penned by Bush or the Pentagon to lie to the world about the current situation. The letter that I originally had posted up shows no indication that it is really one of these letters. If someone has another source saying its not real, then I'll sadly concede that this letter is BS too.

Liquor Dealer · 10-14-2003, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus Pimp
This is pretty sad on Bush's part..[

I'd really like to know on what you based this statement - Do you really think you can blame GW for everything that happens in this universe - Didja' see Bush push Zimmer down at the ballgame the other night! I think he should be impeached - the nerve! Pushin' an old man around like that.

Conclamo Ludus · 10-14-2003, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Frankly, the pentagon would be smarter than this. They have trained psyops and propaganda people.

This seems to me to be just some dumb soldiers, and maybe a dumb low ranking officer, with a really dumb idea.

Never assume a conspiracy when "dumb" will do.

This sounds like the most likely explanation. Its a shame. Its no doubt that propaganda is part of the military, but this is far too stupid of a mistake for it to be handed down by either the commander-in-chief or the pentagon. Whoever thought this one up should be punished for it. You can't get away with such blatant deceit.

Arc101 · 10-14-2003, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Frankly, the pentagon would be smarter than this

I think you are giving the pentagon far too much credit. Come on both the military & politicians can do some bloody stupid PR stuff some times. As an example when the planes crashed into the twin towers, here in England one of Blair’s top PR people sent round an e-mail saying it would be a good time to release information on how bad the government is doing in certain areas, because it wouldn’t get reported. Her e-mail said “it is a good day to bury bad news”.

j8ear · 10-14-2003, 02:05 PM

This happens all the time.

The first thing you do with your brand new platoon out of forming and into a series on Parris Island is sit on the end of your foot locker and write what the drill instructor dictates on your brand new px stationary issued for that very purpose. "I am being well cared for and trained hard. All of my needs are being met, I will be provided the best medical attention, and all of my nutrion requirements are satisfied. etc...Very common in my experience. Battalions would sit in the hanger deck of an LHA and write out identical letters, with coaching from the chain of command and with only some adding some personalization. Especially when the mom of that ~one~ dude, who never writes anyone, contacts her congressmen, and ~he~ wants to know why LtCol Scmuckatelli's battalion has a complaining mom...Address an envelope, lick a stamp and throw it into the mail bag, every fucking one of you. Then board the helo or LCU and head inland for some snoopin and poopin.

I will not belittle the apparently verified and very honorable accompishments of those men, OR those leading them because of a letter regardless of the flavor: form, dictated by the smadge, or other.

out,

-bear

Here's some interesting quotes from some of the soldiers involved, published at the mirror.co.uk:

Quote:

Sergeant Christopher Shelton said his platoon sergeant handed out copies of the letter and asked soldiers to sign it if they agreed with what it said.

Shelton, who did sign the letter which appeared in the Snohomish Herald, said: "Everything it said is dead accurate. We've done a really good job." But Sergeant Shawn Grueser said he did not sign the letter that ended up in his local paper in Charleston, West Virginia.

"It makes it look like you cheated on a test," he said.

Sergeant Todd Oliver, a spokesman for the 503rd Airborne, said he had been told a soldier had written the letters. "When he asked other soldiers in his unit to sign it, they did.

"Someone took it upon themselves to mail it to various newspapers across the country."

(at this link:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html )

Fire · 10-15-2003, 09:59 PM

I tend to agree with the idea that it is an organized campaign, but not by the high ups, seems rather that some low level guys got sick of it/ wanted to impress the high ups, and started this thing- there have been soldiers who said that they did not write /sign the letter, but I could easily see some seargent or LT shipping off some feel good news thinking it wouldnt go to far/become an issue- I just don't see the pentagon bothering- then again, I also could not believe that we have found NO WMD's- Hell, not to support machieavelian tactics, but even if they do not exist, you make sure that they are found..... for the record, I support the war, and think that it was for the best- but often question the handling. I also belive that the media has ignored the improvements that we have made- DOES ANYONE THINK THAT IRAQ WAS BETTER, HAPPIER, OR MORE HUMANE UNDER SADAM?

seretogis · 10-15-2003, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fire
I tend to agree with the idea that it is an organized campaign, but not by the high ups, seems rather that some low level guys got sick of it/ wanted to impress the high ups, and started this thing- there have been soldiers who said that they did not write /sign the letter, but I could easily see some seargent or LT shipping off some feel good news thinking it wouldnt go to far/become an issue- I just don't see the pentagon bothering- then again, I also could not believe that we have found NO WMD's- Hell, not to support machieavelian tactics, but even if they do not exist, you make sure that they are found..... for the record, I support the war, and think that it was for the best- but often question the handling. I also belive that the media has ignored the improvements that we have made- DOES ANYONE THINK THAT IRAQ WAS BETTER, HAPPIER, OR MORE HUMANE UNDER SADAM?

We don't go to war to provide happiness to those in need -- we go to war to kill bad people.

10-13-2003, 07:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	Astroturf campaigns will be caught in these days. Companies/governments/etc. can't get away with them anymore. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-13-2003, 08:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	I read somewhere the military told these troops, if they did not sign this letter they would have to do another tour in Iraq, then go to the afgan wasteland. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

10-13-2003, 10:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=13644 haHA! one of these letters were posted before and we had a discussion about the legimate the letter was. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-13-2003, 11:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	Actually if you guys bothered to read the letter you'll notice it is a completely different letter, every word of it actually. And its been verified at least by snopes.com as being a real letter. Unfortunately the group letters about Iraq that have been sent out will now destroy any credibility a soldier's letter might carry. This is of course to many people's enjoyment unfortunately. Some people love to be vindicated by bad news. The letter we were argueing about earlier has not yet been identified under anybody else's name. Read them both. They are quite different. Snopes.com letter link __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

10-13-2003, 02:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i really doubt that the pentagon has only 1 template that they use to send out these letters. i'm not saying that the one posted here before was fake, but it really sheds more light into the question of its legitamacy. and just because snopes said something is true doesnt necessarily mean it is true. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-13-2003, 07:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Can't win public and military opinion, manufacture it.

10-13-2003, 08:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	cynical bastards...let the soliders tell their own stories...

10-13-2003, 04:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	Seems a little strange that someone would stage a PR "hoax" like this and use real soldier's names. After all, it took the media about 3 hours to track these guys down and ask them if they wrote the letters themselves. Sort of weak planning if you ask me. I might have just made some people up. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

10-13-2003, 04:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	They were probably counting on the media not asking questions as usual.

10-13-2003, 06:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I want to hear the experiences of a lot of different soldiers; the good and the bad...not the form letter of a single eager <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108911,00.asp">"GOP team leader"</a> casting around the mess tent with a clipboard and a form letter.

10-13-2003, 10:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
HarmlessRabbit Junkie Location: San Jose, CA	Frankly, the pentagon would be smarter than this. They have trained psyops and propaganda people. This seems to me to be just some dumb soldiers, and maybe a dumb low ranking officer, with a really dumb idea. Never assume a conspiracy when "dumb" will do.

10-15-2003, 09:59 PM	#24 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I tend to agree with the idea that it is an organized campaign, but not by the high ups, seems rather that some low level guys got sick of it/ wanted to impress the high ups, and started this thing- there have been soldiers who said that they did not write /sign the letter, but I could easily see some seargent or LT shipping off some feel good news thinking it wouldnt go to far/become an issue- I just don't see the pentagon bothering- then again, I also could not believe that we have found NO WMD's- Hell, not to support machieavelian tactics, but even if they do not exist, you make sure that they are found..... for the record, I support the war, and think that it was for the best- but often question the handling. I also belive that the media has ignored the improvements that we have made- DOES ANYONE THINK THAT IRAQ WAS BETTER, HAPPIER, OR MORE HUMANE UNDER SADAM? __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens